Re: [WSG] CSS Tables
The only advantage I can tell is that it just doesn't use any table or td or tr tags, which I have an irrational hatred towards. I've done what you suggested, but the problem is that I can't make the header have the same width as the table. I've tried using a containing box, but then the header stretches unnaturally off to the right past the table, I'm not sure why. ... Well, I'll say the same - it is tabular data add table is most apropriate here, hate you it or not. When you do design in CSS always remember to check unstyled markup - how does it show in devices not supporting CSS - page structure still has to make sense. Made using table it makes much more sense unstyled than your current version. Regards, Rimantas * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS Tables
Is there an advantage of using css tables over regular tables? I'd just use a normal one as that'll do the job well, with no need for agent-switching, etc. That said, if you want to use css.. you could just seperate the header from the table, give it a seperate class and set the width accordingly. B Noa Groveman wrote: Hey everyone, I've been reading this list for a couple weeks and this is my first time posting. I've got a question about something I've been working on recently. I'm pretty sure it's a lost cause, but I might as well ask. I recently converted a directory lister script from using table tags to using CSS styled tables (display:table), and I've noticed that there is no provision for a colspan attribute. This makes sense, because tables are for displaying tabular data and not for fancy headers, but I want to do it anyway. Basically I want to make the first cell (that displays the path) maintain the entire table's width without effecting the other columns' width as it does in the table version. Note, I have a user agent switch, since CSS tables don't work with IE, for displaying the old tables or the new display:tables accordingly. Here's an example: http://eastsdomain.com/test/ . Thanks! -Noa * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS Tables
Have a look at this CSS/table tutorial http://markl.f2o.org/tutorial/tables/Advanced_Tables.html - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 11:37 AM Subject: [WSG] CSS Tables Hey everyone, I've been reading this list for a couple weeks and this is my first time posting. I've got a question about something I've been working on recently. I'm pretty sure it's a lost cause, but I might as well ask. I recently converted a directory lister script from using table tags to using CSS styled tables (display:table), and I've noticed that there is no provision for a colspan attribute. This makes sense, because tables are for displaying tabular data and not for fancy headers, but I want to do it anyway. Basically I want to make the first cell (that displays the path) maintain the entire table's width without effecting the other columns' width as it does in the table version. Note, I have a user agent switch, since CSS tables don't work with IE, for displaying the old tables or the new display:tables accordingly. Here's an example: http://eastsdomain.com/test/ . Thanks! -Noa * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS Tables
Noa Groveman spoke the following wise words on 22/04/2004 11:37 AM EST: Hey everyone, I've been reading this list for a couple weeks and this is my first time posting. I've got a question about something I've been working on recently. I'm pretty sure it's a lost cause, but I might as well ask. Welcome! I recently converted a directory lister script from using table tags to using CSS styled tables (display:table), and I've noticed that there is no provision for a colspan attribute. This is tabular data. I would definately recommend using a table. Imagine there are 50 rows. How would the user, or user-agent, tell that there is a connection between the column header and that piece of data on the 50th row? Use a th scope=col colspan=whateverHeader/th This makes sense, because tables are for displaying tabular data and not for fancy headers, but I want to do it anyway. This is your first clue that you probably should be using a table. You can style tables to your hearts content so I see no reason why you'd bother trying to emulate them using divs. -- tim lucas www.toolmantim.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: [WSG] CSS Tables
The only advantage I can tell is that it just doesn't use any table or td or tr tags, which I have an irrational hatred towards. I've done what you suggested, but the problem is that I can't make the header have the same width as the table. I've tried using a containing box, but then the header stretches unnaturally off to the right past the table, I'm not sure why. It's not a problem with a practical application, really, but thanks for replying. Is there an advantage of using css tables over regular tables? I'd just use a normal one as that'll do the job well, with no need for agent-switching, etc. That said, if you want to use css.. you could just seperate the header from the table, give it a seperate class and set the width accordingly. B Noa Groveman wrote: Hey everyone, I've been reading this list for a couple weeks and this is my first time posting. I've got a question about something I've been working on recently. I'm pretty sure it's a lost cause, but I might as well ask. I recently converted a directory lister script from using table tags to using CSS styled tables (display:table), and I've noticed that there is no provision for a colspan attribute. This makes sense, because tables are for displaying tabular data and not for fancy headers, but I want to do it anyway. Basically I want to make the first cell (that displays the path) maintain the entire table's width without effecting the other columns' width as it does in the table version. Note, I have a user agent switch, since CSS tables don't work with IE, for displaying the old tables or the new display:tables accordingly. Here's an example: http://eastsdomain.com/test/ . Thanks! -Noa * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS Tables
On 22/04/2004, at 11:37 AM, Noa Groveman wrote: I recently converted a directory lister script from using table tags to using CSS styled tables (display:table), and I've noticed that there is no provision for a colspan attribute. This makes sense, because tables are for displaying tabular data and not for fancy headers, but I want to do it anyway. Basically I want to make the first cell (that displays the path) maintain the entire table's width without effecting the other columns' width as it does in the table version. Note, I have a user agent switch, since CSS tables don't work with IE, for displaying the old tables or the new display:tables accordingly. Here's an example: http://eastsdomain.com/test/ . I don't get it. I don't think you need to use display:table to achieve what you want, but then again, it's not all that clear what you want. Why not post a table-version with a layout you like, then we can have a look at what to do from there. Remember, it may still be appropriate to use a table (if it's tabular data), and it may also be worth thinking outside the box, taking advantage of CSS's strengths, rather than wasting life emulating table behaviour in CSS. --- Justin French http://indent.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS Tables
On 22/04/2004, at 12:19 PM, Noa Groveman wrote: The only advantage I can tell is that it just doesn't use any table or td or tr tags, which I have an irrational hatred towards. I've done what you suggested, but the problem is that I can't make the header have the same width as the table. I've tried using a containing box, but then the header stretches unnaturally off to the right past the table, I'm not sure why. I really agree with Noa here -- it's tabular data, so figure it out with tables, not divs and spans. --- Justin French http://indent.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] CSS Tables
Hi and welcome Noa! The only advantage I can tell is that it just doesn't use any table or td or tr tags, which I have an irrational hatred towards. Let's not get carried away with hatred for tables. They have a place in (x)html and where appropriate are the best tool for the job. Using them as a layout hack is worthy of hatred, but not for tabular data. The use of summary caption and using header with ids to link column and row headings (ths) to the data also makes them completely accessible as they are then self-describing when accessed non-visually by assistive technologies. When entering any cell it will also give which column and row the cell belongs to. Take a look at http://www.evolt.org/article/Building_accessible_tables/4090/42090/ (I know there's a better one but can't think of it right now). An analogy: Think of tables as a drug like morphine which has both legitimate and inappropriate uses (medical and recreational in case some of you are in a table-induced haze). Many people got hooked on tables for inappropriate use late last century and are still having trouble breaking the habit, but in the hands of a skilled practitioner, they can do a lot of good. We need a wing at the Betty Ford clinic for table addicts... P * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS Tables
Well, the IE version of the table displays the way I want (view it by simply visiting http://eastsdomain.com/test/ with IE - I also made a static version of this page in case you're running nix - listed below). The only problem is that it uses tables. I know it seems unreasonable, but I've come this far (the user agent scheme isn't as much of a bother as it sounds) and I want to see if I can emulate HTML tables completely. There is one possibly practical application for this: XML. If I parse the directories and spit out XML it would be easy to build a site map and style it. In that case, I would emneed/em to use CSS tables. Here's a static version of the table (with the colspan header): http://eastsdomain.com/test/table1.htm And a static version of the CSS tables: http://eastsdomain.com/test/table2.htm (notice the difference in file size as well) -Noa Justin French wrote: I don't get it. I don't think you need to use display:table to achieve what you want, but then again, it's not all that clear what you want. Why not post a table-version with a layout you like, then we can have a look at what to do from there. Remember, it may still be appropriate to use a table (if it's tabular data), and it may also be worth thinking outside the box, taking advantage of CSS's strengths, rather than wasting life emulating table behaviour in CSS. --- Justin French http://indent.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS Tables... [Virus checkedAU]
This email is to be read subject to the disclaimer below.
Hi Chris,
I see that Russ has already answered my question, but I should add that
using this method you can have more than two things each side. Here's a
really simple example I did:
! Insert some doctype here...
html
head
titleI'm floating.../title
style type=text/css
p { clear: none; width: 20%; }
.left { float: left; }
.right { float: right; }
/style
/head
body
div
p class=leftLeft/p
p class=leftLeft/p
p class=rightRight/p
p class=rightRight/p
/div
/body
/html
Hope you find this useful...
Cheers,
Vik
--
Viktor Radnai
Web Developer
Business Innovation Online
Ernst Young Australia
http://www.eyware.com/
http://www.eyonline.com/
Direct: +612 9248 4361
Fax: +612 9248 4073
Mobile: +61408 662 546
Chris
Stratford To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:
il.com Subject: [WSG] CSS Tables... [Virus
checkedAU]
15/12/2003
11:27 AM
Please respond
to wsg
I have always wanted to do this
I have never seen it possible without TABLES or Absolute positioning
It must be possible though.
What I want to do is, have 1 piece of text aligned LEFT, and on the same
line, another piece of text aligned RIGHT
Its a admin panel, where the line displays:
Title username (then on the very right is a link to LOGOUT)
But unless I use tables I cant do that
The reason why I am after this is because I want my whole website to be
absent of any tables.
www.neester.com/index2.php - that is the continuing method there is a
guestbook where you can leave comments if you like
I was hoping that CSS would allow you to have this sort of thing:
p style=align:left HEADING p style=align:right (if I close the p
tag it will create a new line, but it does this when you open a new p tag
anyway
is there anyway around this?
I have yet to try: span tags.
And the last resort would be using 2 divs
That is my last resort because, I have div class=contentdiv
class=admin then I would have 2 more nested divs
It would end up a hassle like tables end up a hassle
Any help anyone?
Thanks in advance!
Chris Stratford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.neester.com
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RE: [WSG] CSS Tables...
Hey James, I already have a horizontal list. It's just really for any Admins I appoint to the website, and myself. Here is a screenshot of the admin panel. This is where I wanted the title to split left and right, but its too tricky for me at the moment. Too much screwing around, so I am going to give it up right now. http://www.neester.com/media/admin.jpg That's the screenshot there. Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.neester.com -Original Message- From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 15 December 2003 1:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS Tables... Hey Chris why don't you try a horizontal list - they're ok for this kind of stuff. I do a similar thing at my.spamtrap.net.au with titles and logins... Cheers James * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] CSS Tables...
Sorry 4 the second email. But if you want to load the admin up on your PC: www.neester.com/administration.php user: test pass: test you wont have any user rights at the moment. I may allow some right later on for the test account. Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.neester.com -Original Message- From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 15 December 2003 1:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS Tables... Hey Chris why don't you try a horizontal list - they're ok for this kind of stuff. I do a similar thing at my.spamtrap.net.au with titles and logins... Cheers James * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
