Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Ian G0FCT]

Hi Bill,
My shack PC uses an Intel Xeon E5405 and this processor does not support
AVX - but WSJT-X currently works nicely.

73,
Ian G0FCT


On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 at 00:44, Bill Somerville  wrote:

> Hi all WSJT-X users,
>
> we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take
> advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU
> architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for
> older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is using
> such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a mine is
> better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or how many of
> you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this applies to MS
> Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about CPUs not
> operating systems.
>
> The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all
> Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also
> present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late
> Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.
>
> Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support the
> AVX technology.
>
> So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me
> know.
>
> 73
> Bill
> G4WJS.
>
>
>
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Nico Palermo]

The same CPU I'm using here, Frank.

Actually the cores are only 4. It's Intel Hyper Threading technology that
makes them appear as 8.

Anyway it's not bad. Exploiting the AVX instruction set and  all of its
cores, the computing power of an i7-4770 amounts to about 0.11 TeraFLOPS,
that's to say the same power of a single core with no SIMD instructions
running at a 108 GHz CPU clock :-)
I agree. Cheap and extremely good.

73
Nico / IV3NWV


Il giorno sab 12 giu 2021 alle ore 02:05 Frank Kirschner 
ha scritto:

> My reconditioned Dell Optiplex 9020, purchased for around $200 from
>> Discount Electronics, has 8 i7-4770 cores running at 3.4 GHz. Pretty cheap
>> for the processing power.
>
>
> 73,
> Frank
> KF6E
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Frank Kirschner]

>
> My reconditioned Dell Optiplex 9020, purchased for around $200 from
> Discount Electronics, has 8 i7-4770 cores running at 3.4 GHz. Pretty cheap
> for the processing power.


73,
Frank
KF6E
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Bill Somerville]

On 11/06/2021 16:34, Gary McDuffie wrote:

On Jun 10, 2021, at 11:07 PM, Reino Talarmo  wrote:

You need to dig out the number after "i7-". That tells the actual capabilities 
of the CPU. I got a feeling that the numbers below 1000 means no AVX support, but higher 
numbers may also not support. So you need to check it on Intel web page.

I did check Intel’s page, as reported.  There is no number after i7, unless the 
separate number 920 makes a diff.  Full line :   Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU  
920 @ 2.67GHz  2.67GHz. The CPU date is 2008.

Intel makes no mention of features, other than to say none.

Gary — AG0N


Hi Gary,

your CPU does not have AVX support:

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/37147/intel-core-i7-920-processor-8m-cache-2-66-ghz-4-80-gt-s-intel-qpi.html

73
Bill
G4WJS.

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Gary McDuffie]

> On Jun 10, 2021, at 11:07 PM, Reino Talarmo  wrote:
> 
> You need to dig out the number after "i7-". That tells the actual 
> capabilities of the CPU. I got a feeling that the numbers below 1000 means no 
> AVX support, but higher numbers may also not support. So you need to check it 
> on Intel web page.

I did check Intel’s page, as reported.  There is no number after i7, unless the 
separate number 920 makes a diff.  Full line :   Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU  
920 @ 2.67GHz  2.67GHz. The CPU date is 2008.

Intel makes no mention of features, other than to say none.

Gary — AG0N

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Derek Turner via wsjt-devel]

 Hi
According to CPU-Z  my 174GBP Win10 Intel Core i5-3470 4 core  @3.20GHz Dell 
does indeed support AVX.
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Reino Talarmo]

there are several Intel Core three digit CPU model numbers that support AVX.

Thanks Bill, I had “bad” examples! The issue is really to look each model 
separately at Intel page.

73, Reino OH3mA

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Alex Artieda, HB9DRI]

Dear Friends

 

My computers “all” support AVX, two of them I7 and 3 of them I9 Intel 
processors.

 

73 de Alex, HB9DRI (HS0ZOP)

 

From: Bill Somerville  
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2021 4:27 PM
To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for 
WSJT-X

 

On 11/06/2021 06:07, Reino Talarmo wrote:

I looked into what I’m running here and found it is a Gen 1 i7 2.67GHz from 
Intel.  Basically says no features on the Intel site, and no mention of AVX or 
similar on that processor.

Hi Gary,
 
You need to dig out the number after "i7-". That tells the actual capabilities 
of the CPU. I got a feeling that the numbers below 1000 means no AVX support, 
but higher numbers may also not support. So you need to check it on Intel web 
page.
 
73, Reino OH3mA

Hi Reino,

there are several Intel Core three digit CPU model numbers that support AVX.

73
Bill
G4WJS.

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Bill Somerville]

On 11/06/2021 06:07, Reino Talarmo wrote:

I looked into what I’m running here and found it is a Gen 1 i7 2.67GHz from 
Intel.  Basically says no features on the Intel site, and no mention of AVX or 
similar on that processor.

Hi Gary,

You need to dig out the number after "i7-". That tells the actual capabilities 
of the CPU. I got a feeling that the numbers below 1000 means no AVX support, but higher 
numbers may also not support. So you need to check it on Intel web page.

73, Reino OH3mA


Hi Reino,

there are several Intel Core three digit CPU model numbers that support AVX.

73
Bill
G4WJS.

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Alan]

Thanks for the explanation, looks good to me!

Alan G0TLK, sent from my mobile device
On 11 June 2021 02:01:42 Bill Somerville  wrote:


On 09/06/2021 00:38, Bill Somerville wrote:

Hi all WSJT-X users,

we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU
architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for
older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is
using such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a
mine is better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or
how many of you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this
applies to MS Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about
CPUs not operating systems.

The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all
Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is
also present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models
(some late Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa
2013 to present.

Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support
the AVX technology.

So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me
know.

73
Bill
G4WJS.


Hi all,

thanks for all those who took the time to check their systems and report
those without AVX support. That has helped to get a broad picture of the
numbers with older CPUs that pre-date this feature. Not unsurprisingly a
significant proportion lack AVX, this is almost certainly due to systems
being acquired second-hand, repurposed from other uses, or kept for
extended periods as they are more than adequate for the average shack
PC.  Some have suggested that we should not abandon owners of these
older PCs, don't worry as that has never been the intention of this
exercise, here is some background that should help to clarify what may
happen.

The MAP65 application, as of WSJT-X v2.5.0 RC1 has been updated to
decode Q65 signals, this is because we feel certain that Q65 is superior
for EME use on all bands and the prior JT65 decoding ability will be
superseded by Q65. The MAP65 decoder is able to decode many signals
across a wide pass-band, and also implements polarization diversity with
suitably equipped stations. Automatic linear drift compensation has also
been added to compensate for less well specified stations. This all
requires a lot of signal processing effort, but users expect signals to
be decoded in the short interval between the end of transmission and the
start of the next period (note with EME the path delay means that up to
2 1/2 seconds of that interval is lost compared with terrestrial paths).
The first use of hand coded micro-optimizations using AVX instructions
on suitable CPUs will be aimed at getting Q65 decodes done faster in
MAP65. Because the Q65 decoder is shared by WSJT-X and MAP65, the same
optimizations will be there for WSJT-X Q65 users. None of this is
particularly relevant to the survey of CPUs done here as I am sure that
PC costs are such a small part of the typical EME station investment
that users will find a way to upgrade their PCs if necessary.

So why did I ask the question about AVX? Once we start using AVX for
some parts of WSJT-X it makes sense to find other opportunities for
similar hand coded micro-optimizations elsewhere in out code base, not
only that but once implemented we may well choose to increase the
decoding depth of other decoders by taking advantage of such performance
gains. The net effect would be that those with AVX equipped PCs will see
faster and deeper decoding, those with older PCs will see the same extra
depth but overall decoding will take longer than before. My aim was to
judge what proportion of users might suffer this speed degradation
versus those that will see both faster and deeper decoding.

To reassure those that may have misunderstood, there is no intention to
exclude users from the latest WSJT-X enhancements just because they have
older CPUs. We would implement AVX implementations of critical
algorithms alongside their current linear implementations and the choice
of which to use would be made at runtime according to the available CPU
features. Note exactly this already happens in the FFT library we use
called FFTW3, so WSJT-X and MAP65 users have always had AVX specific
algorithm implementations for FFT calculations if the CPU they run on
supports them. We are investigating coding other critical algorithms in
a similar fashion. Notwithstanding that, we also have no intention of
dropping support for ARM CPU architectures like the Raspberry Pi, yet we
have no intention of similar hand coded micro-optimizations for that
platform since the required tools do not exist, so for that platform our
linear implementations would still be used, just like on non-AVX Intel
or AMD CPUs.

73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Jim Brown]

On 6/10/2021 10:10 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

the oldest being about 2012-23 vintage,


Bad fingers -- 2012-2013.

Jim


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Jim Brown]

On 6/9/2021 11:25 AM, Michael Pittaro wrote:

Intel provides tools to do the feature identification for you.  See:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/05607/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards.html 


The second choice in this link told me that all my active Thinkpads, the 
oldest being about 2012-23 vintage, have AVX capability. It took about 
two minutes per machine to download and run it.


73, Jim K9YC







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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Reino Talarmo]

>I looked into what I’m running here and found it is a Gen 1 i7 2.67GHz from 
>Intel.  Basically says no features on the Intel site, and no mention of AVX or 
>similar on that processor.

Hi Gary,

You need to dig out the number after "i7-". That tells the actual capabilities 
of the CPU. I got a feeling that the numbers below 1000 means no AVX support, 
but higher numbers may also not support. So you need to check it on Intel web 
page.

73, Reino OH3mA



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Gary McDuffie]

Bill,

I looked into what I’m running here and found it is a Gen 1 i7 2.67GHz from 
Intel.  Basically says no features on the Intel site, and no mention of AVX or 
similar on that processor.

Gary - AG0N

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Bill Somerville]

On 09/06/2021 00:38, Bill Somerville wrote:

Hi all WSJT-X users,

we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take 
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU 
architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for 
older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is 
using such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a 
mine is better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or 
how many of you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this 
applies to MS Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about 
CPUs not operating systems.


The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all 
Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is 
also present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models 
(some late Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 
2013 to present.


Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support 
the AVX technology.


So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX** 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me 
know.


73
Bill
G4WJS. 


Hi all,

thanks for all those who took the time to check their systems and report 
those without AVX support. That has helped to get a broad picture of the 
numbers with older CPUs that pre-date this feature. Not unsurprisingly a 
significant proportion lack AVX, this is almost certainly due to systems 
being acquired second-hand, repurposed from other uses, or kept for 
extended periods as they are more than adequate for the average shack 
PC.  Some have suggested that we should not abandon owners of these 
older PCs, don't worry as that has never been the intention of this 
exercise, here is some background that should help to clarify what may 
happen.


The MAP65 application, as of WSJT-X v2.5.0 RC1 has been updated to 
decode Q65 signals, this is because we feel certain that Q65 is superior 
for EME use on all bands and the prior JT65 decoding ability will be 
superseded by Q65. The MAP65 decoder is able to decode many signals 
across a wide pass-band, and also implements polarization diversity with 
suitably equipped stations. Automatic linear drift compensation has also 
been added to compensate for less well specified stations. This all 
requires a lot of signal processing effort, but users expect signals to 
be decoded in the short interval between the end of transmission and the 
start of the next period (note with EME the path delay means that up to 
2 1/2 seconds of that interval is lost compared with terrestrial paths). 
The first use of hand coded micro-optimizations using AVX instructions 
on suitable CPUs will be aimed at getting Q65 decodes done faster in 
MAP65. Because the Q65 decoder is shared by WSJT-X and MAP65, the same 
optimizations will be there for WSJT-X Q65 users. None of this is 
particularly relevant to the survey of CPUs done here as I am sure that 
PC costs are such a small part of the typical EME station investment 
that users will find a way to upgrade their PCs if necessary.


So why did I ask the question about AVX? Once we start using AVX for 
some parts of WSJT-X it makes sense to find other opportunities for 
similar hand coded micro-optimizations elsewhere in out code base, not 
only that but once implemented we may well choose to increase the 
decoding depth of other decoders by taking advantage of such performance 
gains. The net effect would be that those with AVX equipped PCs will see 
faster and deeper decoding, those with older PCs will see the same extra 
depth but overall decoding will take longer than before. My aim was to 
judge what proportion of users might suffer this speed degradation 
versus those that will see both faster and deeper decoding.


To reassure those that may have misunderstood, there is no intention to 
exclude users from the latest WSJT-X enhancements just because they have 
older CPUs. We would implement AVX implementations of critical 
algorithms alongside their current linear implementations and the choice 
of which to use would be made at runtime according to the available CPU 
features. Note exactly this already happens in the FFT library we use 
called FFTW3, so WSJT-X and MAP65 users have always had AVX specific 
algorithm implementations for FFT calculations if the CPU they run on 
supports them. We are investigating coding other critical algorithms in 
a similar fashion. Notwithstanding that, we also have no intention of 
dropping support for ARM CPU architectures like the Raspberry Pi, yet we 
have no intention of similar hand coded micro-optimizations for that 
platform since the required tools do not exist, so for that platform our 
linear implementations would still be used, just like on non-AVX Intel 
or AMD CPUs.


73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Bob McCormick]

All of the current systems at NC1I support AVX.  We're upgrading the portable 
DXpedition station and will make sure that supports it as well.

Bob W1QA


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Alan]

I broadly agree, but conversely a fair number of people seem to like 
keeping classic cars going as a hobby, sometimes rather older than a Model T!


However, AVX practical usage dates from 2011 and 10 year old machines (W7 
era) are still viable for some people, since for simple use they can be 
good enough.


The number of replies here with non AVX machines also seems to confirm such 
older or more limited hardware machines are in regular use within the hobby.


I do hope AVX can be used for those of us with capable processors, but also 
hope that those without can also continue unaffected, at least until non 
AVX machines aren't commonly viable in hobby use.


Alan G0TLK
On 10 June 2021 21:16:03 Jim Brown  wrote:


On 6/10/2021 2:02 AM, Alan wrote:

I agree up to a point, but this is a hobby and older kit is often in
service for long periods to keep financial cost down.


It's unlikely that anyone would drive a Model T thinking it was a
suitable vehicle on today's roadways. A 15 year old computer, even a
very good one, is the modern equivalent.

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Jim Brown]

On 6/10/2021 2:02 AM, Alan wrote:
I agree up to a point, but this is a hobby and older kit is often in 
service for long periods to keep financial cost down.


It's unlikely that anyone would drive a Model T thinking it was a 
suitable vehicle on today's roadways. A 15 year old computer, even a 
very good one, is the modern equivalent.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Bob McCormick]

For Windows based systems - sysinternals utility to display all facets:

Microsoft Coreinfo v3.52
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/coreinfo

Extract either coreinfo (32-bit) or coreinfo64 (64-bit) from the zip file.
Run in command prompt ... a * indicates the feature is present, a - not present.


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Serge Szpilfogel]

Hi Bill my processor is AMD Phenom II X6 Thuban on window 7 & it does not 
support AVX according to Google.
Serge VE1KG

-Original Message-
From: Bill Somerville  
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2021 20:22
To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for 
WSJT-X

On 09/06/2021 21:15, Andrew Neumeier via wsjt-devel wrote:


Using a Athlon II 450 triple core.  No AVX support, according to what I 
have been able to learn about the processor specs. Seems that support may have 
started just after this cpu.  

73,
Andy, ka2uqw


Hi Andy,

that's correct, it was launched in 2010 and AMD did not include AVX until about 
2013.

73
Bill
G4WJS.





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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Christoph Berg]

Re: Richard Shaw
> Not exactly what I meant. We (Fedora Linux) can only assume certain
> processor facilities can be "assumed" when targeting a specific platform
> (x86_64, i686, s390x, ppc, aarch64, etc.). Which is separate from my desire
> to take advantage of them.
> 
> It's a bit more complicated, but it is possible to detect and use these
> features at runtime.

I would be interested in that as well for Debian.

Christoph DF7CB


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[alan2]

Hopefully it will be, but as I said just something to check!

Alan G0TLK

On 10/06/2021 10:00, Reino Talarmo wrote:


Hi Alan,

The AVX performs decoding calculation four or eight times faster than 
the same calculation without it. If the decoding level is the same, 
then the 30% higher current usage once every 15 s would use about one 
third of power or less. Of course you may wish to apply a better 
decoding as it will be available. Well, my calculation is a bit 
optimistic as decoding is not alone AVX type calculation and on that 
part there is no relevant difference. We should remember that in our 
application the current consumption is a small part of total time so 
it is not a high duty cycle. My bet is that difference in total power 
consumption is minor.


73, Reino OH3mA

*Lähettäjä:*Alan [mailto:al...@alangroups.plus.com]
*Lähetetty:* 10 June 2021 10:02
*Vastaanottaja:* WSJT software development 

*Aihe:* Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being 
used for WSJT-X


My main concern is battery life when out portable.

While I agree cooling design should be OK, on older machines typically 
in use there will almost certainly be performance degradation due to 
dirt!   If their CPU is hit hard on a high duty cycle will they be 
OK?  Only the machine user will know how it performs under such loads.


Thermal cycling is another consideration, again duty cycle dependent.

My query is therefore how the load increase occurs, in particular the 
length of time it lasts and how frequent it will be. Hopefully no 
problem but just some things to check.


Alan G0TLK, sent from my mobile device

On 9 June 2021 22:49:58 Richard Shaw <mailto:hobbes1...@gmail.com>> wrote:


On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 4:33 PM Alan mailto:al...@alangroups.plus.com>> wrote:

With 30% extra CPU power consumption those running on battery
power might want to think twice about use of these extensions,
and some on mains power might also not want to add additional
thermal stress and/or electricity consumption, if it's drawn
for any length of time?

The cooling for your processor should be designed to handle the
maximum TDP of the processor, if not, then you've got a much
bigger problem. I would make an exception for laptop processors
since they have very limited cooling but they should throttle
anyway. Either case, it shouldn't be a problem.

When there are test builds available I'll check if there's any
noticeable increase in power draw. I have a very nice UPS that
gives me the current draw in watts.

Thanks,

Richard

KF5OIM

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Alan]

I agree up to a point, but this is a hobby and older kit is often in 
service for long periods to keep financial cost down.  Some people may also 
be concerned with sustainability and environmental costs, others less so.


Two source branches would be a maintenance nightmare.  It shouldn't be hard 
to test for the extensions and set a flag accordingly.  New code or maybe 
new modes that must use AVX could then simply check the flag and pop up a 
box to say CPU upgrade needed?


Anyway, getting off topic.

Alan G0TLK, sent from my mobile device
On 9 June 2021 23:13:23 Jeff Stillinger via wsjt-devel 
 wrote:



Hi Bill,

I know this is not exactly the suggestion that you may want to consider,
but, I would feel remiss if I didn't mention it.  The development team
has a difficult choice to make.   I can empathize with people vs.
technology.

If you are trying to please the most people.  I would suggest another
source branch.  One for those with AVX and one for those without AVX.
You could get a little fancy and detect it during the configure portion
of the build and make it invisible to the end user.   Each source build
then is optimized for the builders CPU.

If you are looking to push the technology forward, then it would be
using AVX and those with processors that don't support it will simply
have to upgrade.  Being backwards compatible is nice to a degree, but
going back 8-10 years is excessive.   We are talking Intel processors
that are over 11 years old and AMD processors that are 8 years old.
Bet nobody has a phone that is 11 years old. I would fully support and
press for moving the technology forward.



On 6/8/21 6:38 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:

Hi all WSJT-X users,

we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU
architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for
older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is
using such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a
mine is better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or
how many of you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this
applies to MS Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about
CPUs not operating systems.

The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all
Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is
also present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models
(some late Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa
2013 to present.

Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support
the AVX technology.

So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me
know.

73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Reino Talarmo]

Hi Alan,

The AVX performs decoding calculation four or eight times faster than the
same calculation without it. If the decoding level is the same, then the 30%
higher current usage once every 15 s would use about one third of power or
less. Of course you may wish to apply a better decoding as it will be
available. Well, my calculation is a bit optimistic as decoding is not alone
AVX type calculation and on that part there is no relevant difference. We
should remember that in our application the current consumption is a small
part of total time so it is not a high duty cycle. My bet is that difference
in total power consumption is minor.

 

73, Reino OH3mA

 

Lähettäjä: Alan [mailto:al...@alangroups.plus.com] 
Lähetetty: 10 June 2021 10:02
Vastaanottaja: WSJT software development 
Aihe: Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for
WSJT-X

 

My main concern is battery life when out portable.

 

While I agree cooling design should be OK, on older machines typically in
use there will almost certainly be performance degradation due to dirt!   If
their CPU is hit hard on a high duty cycle will they be OK?  Only the
machine user will know how it performs under such loads.

 

Thermal cycling is another consideration, again duty cycle dependent.

 

My query is therefore how the load increase occurs, in particular the length
of time it lasts and how frequent it will be.  Hopefully no problem but just
some things to check.

 

Alan G0TLK, sent from my mobile device

 

On 9 June 2021 22:49:58 Richard Shaw mailto:hobbes1...@gmail.com> > wrote:

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 4:33 PM Alan mailto:al...@alangroups.plus.com> > wrote:

With 30% extra CPU power consumption those running on battery power might
want to think twice about use of these extensions, and some on mains power
might also not want to add additional thermal stress and/or electricity
consumption, if it's drawn for any length of time?

 

The cooling for your processor should be designed to handle the maximum TDP
of the processor, if not, then you've got a much bigger problem. I would
make an exception for laptop processors since they have very limited cooling
but they should throttle anyway. Either case, it shouldn't be a problem. 

 

When there are test builds available I'll check if there's any noticeable
increase in power draw. I have a very nice UPS that gives me the current
draw in watts.

 

Thanks,

Richard

KF5OIM 

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Alan]

My main concern is battery life when out portable.

While I agree cooling design should be OK, on older machines typically in 
use there will almost certainly be performance degradation due to dirt!   
If their CPU is hit hard on a high duty cycle will they be OK?  Only the 
machine user will know how it performs under such loads.


Thermal cycling is another consideration, again duty cycle dependent.

My query is therefore how the load increase occurs, in particular the 
length of time it lasts and how frequent it will be.  Hopefully no problem 
but just some things to check.


Alan G0TLK, sent from my mobile device
On 9 June 2021 22:49:58 Richard Shaw  wrote:

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 4:33 PM Alan  wrote:

With 30% extra CPU power consumption those running on battery power might 
want to think twice about use of these extensions, and some on mains power 
might also not want to add additional thermal stress and/or electricity 
consumption, if it's drawn for any length of time?


The cooling for your processor should be designed to handle the maximum TDP 
of the processor, if not, then you've got a much bigger problem. I would 
make an exception for laptop processors since they have very limited 
cooling but they should throttle anyway. Either case, it shouldn't be a 
problem.


When there are test builds available I'll check if there's any noticeable 
increase in power draw. I have a very nice UPS that gives me the current 
draw in watts.


Thanks,
Richard
KF5OIM
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Nico Palermo]

Some things can be done more efficiently if they are "vectorized" but not
all the algorithms
can be easily vectorized with the current technology and maybe that chess
games belong
to this case, I'm not expert about them.

For what concerns our case, there's a lot of things that we can do in order
to make steps
that we could not afford in the past but that the technology we already own
in some way
now allows.
If we had incredibly fast computers we could simply decode a message voting
for the
most likely among all the possible messages that could have been
transmitted but this,
on actual computers, is still infeasible even with the quite short messages
we use on WSJTX.
So far, if we would get out the best decoding results given the available
processing
capabilities and assuming that we don't want to wait years to see if
something gets decoded,
the way we write the code and exploit some hardware, if available, matters
indeed.

Getting the best out of the codes used in WSJTX is not just a matter of
telecommunication theory.
We try to do something that industry likely would never do as it would be
not that convenient.
Anyway we aim to go beyond compromises and this requires quite an huge
processing power
that we can possibly exploit from the most modern machines.

None of us wants to put pressure on this aspect. I think that Bill's poll
was just aimed to
see how we could improve what was already done given the hardware that is
commonly used.

I think that the first goal that WSJTX developers address is still (and has
always been) that
of thinking and deploying something smart, solid and useful for the
community, not that of
embroidering funny solutions. Yet the problem of doing what we do in the
best way we
can, given all the world and the technology that revolves around us, still
persists despite
we are not explicitly called to cope with it.

BTW, I don't see any problem for EMErs. If you already do EME activity a
30% more CPU power
consumption (if it should be really required) is just a small fraction of
the power
used by the transmitter PA. Therefore even a single dB of coding gain would
easily translate to
a total energy saving.


73
Nico / IV3NWV


Il giorno mer 9 giu 2021 alle ore 19:23 Black Michael via wsjt-devel <
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> ha scritto:

> Is there some reasons to think we get a notable performance boost from AVX?
>
> First link I found is not impressivevery few benchmarks show much
> improvement and many show less and it's at a cost of 30% or so more CPU
> power consumption...fans will be screaming...looks like it mainly helps on
> decoding streams.
>
>
> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=rocket-lake-avx512&num=2
>
> Mike W9MDB
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Ray Rocker]

Bill,

I use this oldie w/o AVX for everyday WSJT-X.  I do use a newer PC for
contests though.

processor   : 0
vendor_id   : AuthenticAMD
cpu family  : 16
model: 4
model name   : AMD Phenom(tm) II X2 550 Processor
stepping: 2
cpu MHz : 800.000
cache size  : 512 KB

-- Ray WQ5L


On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 6:44 PM Bill Somerville  wrote:
>
> Hi all WSJT-X users,
...
> So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me
> know.


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[G8DQX (WSJT developers on SF)]

Bill,

1 portable machine in use for field & experimental work has an Intel 
B2020M non-AVX supporting CPU (another portable machine does offer AVX. 
For some purposes 2 machines are useful/necessary)


1 knockabout machine in near-term use has an AMD E450 non-AVX supporting 
CPU. (2 similar machines do support AVX)


HTH, 73,

Robin, G8DQX

On 09/06/2021 00:38, Bill Somerville wrote:
So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX** 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me 
know.


73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Jeff Stillinger via wsjt-devel]

Hi Bill,

I know this is not exactly the suggestion that you may want to consider, 
but, I would feel remiss if I didn't mention it.  The development team 
has a difficult choice to make.   I can empathize with people vs. 
technology.


If you are trying to please the most people.  I would suggest another 
source branch.  One for those with AVX and one for those without AVX.  
You could get a little fancy and detect it during the configure portion 
of the build and make it invisible to the end user.   Each source build 
then is optimized for the builders CPU.


If you are looking to push the technology forward, then it would be 
using AVX and those with processors that don't support it will simply 
have to upgrade.  Being backwards compatible is nice to a degree, but 
going back 8-10 years is excessive.   We are talking Intel processors 
that are over 11 years old and AMD processors that are 8 years old.  
Bet nobody has a phone that is 11 years old. I would fully support and 
press for moving the technology forward.




On 6/8/21 6:38 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:

Hi all WSJT-X users,

we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take 
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU 
architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for 
older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is 
using such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a 
mine is better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or 
how many of you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this 
applies to MS Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about 
CPUs not operating systems.


The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all 
Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is 
also present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models 
(some late Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 
2013 to present.


Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support 
the AVX technology.


So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX** 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me 
know.


73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Richard Shaw]

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 4:33 PM Alan  wrote:

> With 30% extra CPU power consumption those running on battery power might
> want to think twice about use of these extensions, and some on mains power
> might also not want to add additional thermal stress and/or electricity
> consumption, if it's drawn for any length of time?
>

The cooling for your processor should be designed to handle the maximum TDP
of the processor, if not, then you've got a much bigger problem. I would
make an exception for laptop processors since they have very limited
cooling but they should throttle anyway. Either case, it shouldn't be a
problem.

When there are test builds available I'll check if there's any
noticeable increase in power draw. I have a very nice UPS that gives me the
current draw in watts.

Thanks,
Richard
KF5OIM
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Alan]

With 30% extra CPU power consumption those running on battery power might 
want to think twice about use of these extensions, and some on mains power 
might also not want to add additional thermal stress and/or electricity 
consumption, if it's drawn for any length of time?



On the other hand if the extra power is drawn for only a very short time 
then it won't be that noticeable?



It obviously depends on what the extensions will be used for but if the 
overall power draw is likely to be significant I wonder if such an 
enhancement could/should then be a user choice, if practicable?



Alan G0TLK, sent from my mobile device
On 9 June 2021 19:07:06 Bill Somerville  wrote:

On 09/06/2021 18:22, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:

Is there some reasons to think we get a notable performance boost from AVX?


First link I found is not impressivevery few benchmarks show much 
improvement and many show less and it's at a cost of 30% or so more CPU 
power consumption...fans will be screaming...looks like it mainly helps on 
decoding streams.



https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=rocket-lake-avx512&num=2



Mike W9MDB

Mike,
the AVX instruction set adds vector operations that can do up to 8 float or 
4 double operations in parallel during a single CPU clock cycle, for some 
algorithms up to a factor of 8 throughput is possible. A 30% power 
consumption increase for something like a 4 fold speed increase of suitable 
algorithms should be considered rather than just quoting figures you have 
seen out of context.

73
Bill
G4WJS.
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Bill Somerville]

On 09/06/2021 21:15, Andrew Neumeier via wsjt-devel wrote:
Using a Athlon II 450 triple core.  No AVX support, according to what 
I have been able to learn about the processor specs. Seems that 
support may have started just after this cpu.


73,
Andy, ka2uqw


Hi Andy,

that's correct, it was launched in 2010 and AMD did not include AVX 
until about 2013.


73
Bill
G4WJS.

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[wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Andrew Neumeier via wsjt-devel]

Using a Athlon II 450 triple core.  No AVX support, according to what I have 
been able to learn about the processor specs. Seems that support may have 
started just after this cpu.  
73,Andy, ka2uqw
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Michael Pittaro]

[reposting to the original thread; didn't realize it had split]

Intel provides tools to do the feature identification for you.  See:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/05607/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards.html

The Intel processor identification utility provides the information
directly.  (I believe this is windows only, but didn't dig for Linux
versions.)

The Intel® Processor Diagnostic Tool also provides that information, plus
diagnostic tests.It used to be available for Linux, but a quick check
shows it's currently windows only.

Us Linux hacks can 'cat /proc/cpuinfo' to get this information, but it
requires some interpretation of the flags field :-)

73's
mike, kj6vcp
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Neil Zampella]

Bill,

the CPU-Z program shows that I'm running an AMD Ryzen 4 Mobile 2500U
with 4 cores, speed of 1596.76MHz, and it includes instructions for AVX,
and AVX2.

Hope this helps.

Neil, KN3ILZ



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Mike Goodey]

Bill

I'm running an Intel Core i7 860 - it would appear that this DOES NOT support 
AVX.

Mike G0GJV

> Hi all WSJT-X users,
> 
> we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take 
> advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU 
> architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for 
> older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is using 
> such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a mine is 
> better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or how many of 
> you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this applies to MS 
> Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about CPUs not 
> operating systems.
> 
> The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all 
> Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also 
> present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late 
> Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.
> 
> Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support the 
> AVX technology.
> 
> So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX** 
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me 
> know.
> 
> 73
> Bill
> G4WJS.





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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Bill Somerville]

On 09/06/2021 18:22, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:
Is there some reasons to think we get a notable performance boost from 
AVX?


First link I found is not impressivevery few benchmarks show much 
improvement and many show less and it's at a cost of 30% or so more 
CPU power consumption...fans will be screaming...looks like it mainly 
helps on decoding streams.


https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=rocket-lake-avx512&num=2 



Mike W9MDB


Mike,

the AVX instruction set adds vector operations that can do up to 8 float 
or 4 double operations in parallel during a single CPU clock cycle, for 
some algorithms up to a factor of 8 throughput is possible. A 30% power 
consumption increase for something like a 4 fold speed increase of 
suitable algorithms should be considered rather than just quoting 
figures you have seen out of context.


73
Bill
G4WJS.

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

Those are a lot better
Do we have some benchmarks for WSJT-X decoding?
Thanks
Mike W9MDB

 

On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 12:42:08 PM CDT, Richard Shaw 
 wrote:  
 
 On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 12:27 PM Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
 wrote:

Is there some reasons to think we get a notable performance boost from AVX?

I can't say for WSJTX, but for the 700C FreeDV mode, it's the difference 
between slower and/or ARM devices being usable or not (mainly for encoding).  
You may find the multiple benchmarks of interest.
https://github.com/drowe67/LPCNet/pull/25

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Richard Shaw]

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 12:27 PM Black Michael via wsjt-devel <
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> Is there some reasons to think we get a notable performance boost from AVX?
>

I can't say for WSJTX, but for the 700C FreeDV mode, it's the difference
between slower and/or ARM devices being usable or not (mainly for
encoding).

You may find the multiple benchmarks of interest.

https://github.com/drowe67/LPCNet/pull/25

Thanks,
Richard
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

Is there some reasons to think we get a notable performance boost from AVX?
First link I found is not impressivevery few benchmarks show much 
improvement and many show less and it's at a cost of 30% or so more CPU power 
consumption...fans will be screaming...looks like it mainly helps on decoding 
streams.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=rocket-lake-avx512&num=2

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Serge Szpilfogel]

Hi Roger hope you are well!! Here I am running Window7  64Bit how can I find 
the CPU details which shows how many cores I know it is an AMD CPU whatever 
that is.
Thank you Roger
Serge VE1KG

-Original Message-
From: Roger Rehr W3SZ  
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2021 14:48
To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for 
WSJT-X

Hi Bill,

I am still using four Core 2 Duo E8500 CPU-computers (Q1 2008) on which I run 
WSJT-X.  They don't support AVX, of course.

They are old but since they have up until now been (barely/marginally) OK in 
terms of speed and CPU utilization even with Windows 10 I haven't replaced them 
before now.  All each of them does is run an SDR program, WSJT-X, and 
Dimension-4.

If WSJT-X added performance enhancements that would only work with a newer CPU, 
that would probably push me to upgrade them.  I had been considering doing that 
anyway, as they have slowed enough with Windows
10 and each of its major updates that I suspect they won't be "OK" for my 
purposes for much longer, as each major Windows update slows them further.

So if I need to get new computers to get the most out of a future version of 
WSJT-X, I will thank you for pushing me to do what I should have already done 
by now.  From my perspective, I would say don't spend any time just to keep my 
ancient Core 2 Duos running with WSJT-X. Getting 13 years out of a 
CPU/motherboard is plenty :)

Thanks for polling the group on this and for all that you do, and 73,

Roger
W3SZ

On 6/8/2021 07:38 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:
> Hi all WSJT-X users,
>
> we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take 
> advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU 
> architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for 
> older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is 
> using such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a 
> mine is better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or 
> how many of you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this 
> applies to MS Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about 
> CPUs not operating systems.
>
> The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all 
> Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is 
> also present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models 
> (some late Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa
> 2013 to present.
>
> Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support 
> the AVX technology.
>
> So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me 
> know.
>
> 73
> Bill
> G4WJS.
>
>
>
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[alawler mudhawk . com]

 HI Bill,

  In terms of basic strategy,  I've moved away from the "One big complex 
computer does everything" model towards a bunch of standalone Linux 
"appliances" that do a small number of tasks.

  My JT machines are up 24x7.   I'm also partially off grid (Via a homebrew 
solar setup), so night-time power consumption is a factor, although not a deal 
breaker.)

  For the JT modes,  I run:

 Primary Station:  Atomic Pi  (Atom Quad Core processor with 2gb  running 
Ubuntu (*)  
https://www.amazon.com/Atomic-Pi-High-Speed-Peripheral/dp/B07N298F2B/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=atomic+pi&qid=1623237717&sr=8-4

I prefer this over raspberry pi due to the huge heatsink which allows passive 
cooling.

  For 85% of my operations, this is fine, but on busy bands,  it sometimes 
takes more than 15 seconds to decode a 15 second interval, which is a path to 
ruin... 🙂I've been chased off 20 meters a few times due to being unable to 
decode fast enough.   (I stubbornly run deep decoding  though so I don't miss 
stuff.)

*I know you didn't ask about OS,  but this flavor of ubuntu may not upgrade 
well.   (I already hit a snag building the new version due to libboost etc. and 
may need to either rebuild on a new distro, or abandon this configuration at 
some point.


 Secondary:   I also have 2 4gb Raspberry PI 4's running SDR ->GQRX/wsjtx that 
continuously listen on wspr.


--al
WB1BQE

From: Bill Somerville 
Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 11:38 PM
To: WSJT software development 
Subject: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for 
WSJT-X

Hi all WSJT-X users,

we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU
architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for
older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is using
such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a mine is
better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or how many of
you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this applies to MS
Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about CPUs not
operating systems.

The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all
Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also
present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late
Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.

Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support the
AVX technology.

So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me
know.

73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[jarmo]

Wed, 9 Jun 2021 06:48:05 -0700
Doug W  kirjoitti:

> No AVX for me.  I'm running an old Intel core i7-860 (Lynnfield
> architecture) from 2009.
> Thank you for taking the time to check.

I use i7-3770k and it supports
 Intel® SSE4.1, Intel® SSE4.2, Intel® AVX

Jarmo, oh1mrr


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Roger Rehr W3SZ]

Hi Bill,

I am still using four Core 2 Duo E8500 CPU-computers (Q1 2008) on which 
I run WSJT-X.  They don't support AVX, of course.


They are old but since they have up until now been (barely/marginally) 
OK in terms of speed and CPU utilization even with Windows 10 I haven't 
replaced them before now.  All each of them does is run an SDR program, 
WSJT-X, and Dimension-4.


If WSJT-X added performance enhancements that would only work with a 
newer CPU, that would probably push me to upgrade them.  I had been 
considering doing that anyway, as they have slowed enough with Windows 
10 and each of its major updates that I suspect they won't be "OK" for 
my purposes for much longer, as each major Windows update slows them 
further.


So if I need to get new computers to get the most out of a future 
version of WSJT-X, I will thank you for pushing me to do what I should 
have already done by now.  From my perspective, I would say don't spend 
any time just to keep my ancient Core 2 Duos running with WSJT-X.  
Getting 13 years out of a CPU/motherboard is plenty :)


Thanks for polling the group on this and for all that you do, and 73,

Roger
W3SZ

On 6/8/2021 07:38 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:

Hi all WSJT-X users,

we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take 
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU 
architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for 
older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is 
using such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a 
mine is better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or 
how many of you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this 
applies to MS Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about 
CPUs not operating systems.


The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all 
Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is 
also present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models 
(some late Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 
2013 to present.


Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support 
the AVX technology.


So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX** 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me 
know.


73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Mark Spencer]

Also as far as I can tell the Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU in my Panasonic
Tough book does not support AVX.

73
Mark S
VE7AFZ
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Mark Spencer]

Hi:

The oldest PC I still routinely run WSJT-X with has a CPU with the
following specs (from the control panel systems tab)

Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU P9300@2.26Ghz 2.27 Ghz
64 bit Operating System

The PC in question is a Panasonic Tough book that I use during portable use
and roving.

Thanks for all your efforts with WSJT-X

73
Mark S
VE7AFZ
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Doug W]

No AVX for me.  I'm running an old Intel core i7-860 (Lynnfield
architecture) from 2009.
Thank you for taking the time to check.

On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 4:44 PM Bill Somerville 
wrote:

> Hi all WSJT-X users,
>
> we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take
> advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU
> architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for
> older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is using
> such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a mine is
> better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or how many of
> you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this applies to MS
> Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about CPUs not
> operating systems.
>
> The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all
> Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also
> present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late
> Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.
>
> Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support the
> AVX technology.
>
> So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me
> know.
>
> 73
> Bill
> G4WJS.
>
>
>
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Hasan N0AN]

If you need to know the Code Name of your processor, you can download and
install this (from my Google Drive)

CPU-Z

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Z3wG5IuuxMfHf538P3_Z4UT2R_kXbzuC/view?usp=sharing

Download and install, it will show the "Name" that Bill refers to on the
2nd line of the main cpu page.

73, N0AN
Hasan


On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 7:39 AM Hasan N0AN  wrote:

> Plainly, in Bill's message is this:
>
>  *In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for*
>
> *older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is
> usingsuch older processors.*
>
> No where does Bill say they are going to leave anyone behind.
>
> He was asking for one simple thing, so they could maintain backward
> compatibility.
>
> *If your computer doesn't support the new instructions set, let me know.*
>
> At no point did Bill say people with older computers were going to be
> obsolesced.
>
> 73, N0AN
> Hasan
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 7:20 AM Doug Bates  wrote:
>
>> One more old retired Amateur with older computing hardware. Not likely to
>> be upgraded any time soon on a limited retirement budget. Please keep
>> backward compatibility as long as possible.
>> 73 de KV4ZY
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 6:11 AM Bill Somerville 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/06/2021 09:37, Jim Brown wrote:
>>>
>>> On 6/8/2021 4:38 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:
>>>
>>> we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take
>>> advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU architectures.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> I have a half dozen Thinkpads of various vintages, most running i7
>>> processors, two running i5s. At least half were purchased as refurbs for
>>> less than $500. Machines like this are widely available in the States, so
>>> that on this side of the pond, hardware should be no limitation for any ham
>>> willing to spend a modest amount for a computer. In the case of one machine
>>> (the one in my shack, about 5 years old purchased new), I needed to add
>>> some RAM.
>>>
>>> I bought my current shack computer new 5-7 years ago, an i7 Thinkpad
>>> with not enough RAM for $760. I've since added 8 GB and an SSD. It has no
>>> problem with WSJT-X, nor with SO2R RTTY contesting -- two radios, each with
>>> two RTTY decoders, logging software, and  browsers, all running
>>> simultaneously. A comparable machine could probably be bought used for
>>> about $500.
>>>
>>> I think the real obstacle is ignorance on the part of many hams as to
>>> what's available at moderate cost. I would encourage your ongoing
>>> development, along with an education campaign about hardware.
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>>
>>> Jim,
>>>
>>> it would be helpful if you take the time to review the CPU specs of each
>>> of your machines that run WSJT-X (or MAP65) and determine if they support
>>> the AVX instruction set. With MS Windows this can be done by looking at the
>>> System panel (Windows+X then select System), find the CPU model (it is in
>>> the middle of the page) and look it up on the manufacture's web site. For
>>> example I might do an internet search for "Intel Core i7-3630QM specs" and
>>> go to the ark.intel.com link at the top of that search
>>> https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/71459/intel-core-i7-3630qm-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-40-ghz.html
>>> . On that page under "Advanced Technologies" I find AVX, you may also see
>>> AVX2 or even one of the AVX512 versions, all of those include AVX support.
>>> Let me know if any of your WSJT-X PCs do not support AVX.
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Bill
>>> G4WJS.
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Hasan N0AN]

Plainly, in Bill's message is this:

 *In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for*

*older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is
usingsuch older processors.*

No where does Bill say they are going to leave anyone behind.

He was asking for one simple thing, so they could maintain backward
compatibility.

*If your computer doesn't support the new instructions set, let me know.*

At no point did Bill say people with older computers were going to be
obsolesced.

73, N0AN
Hasan


On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 7:20 AM Doug Bates  wrote:

> One more old retired Amateur with older computing hardware. Not likely to
> be upgraded any time soon on a limited retirement budget. Please keep
> backward compatibility as long as possible.
> 73 de KV4ZY
>
> On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 6:11 AM Bill Somerville 
> wrote:
>
>> On 09/06/2021 09:37, Jim Brown wrote:
>>
>> On 6/8/2021 4:38 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:
>>
>> we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take
>> advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU architectures.
>>
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> I have a half dozen Thinkpads of various vintages, most running i7
>> processors, two running i5s. At least half were purchased as refurbs for
>> less than $500. Machines like this are widely available in the States, so
>> that on this side of the pond, hardware should be no limitation for any ham
>> willing to spend a modest amount for a computer. In the case of one machine
>> (the one in my shack, about 5 years old purchased new), I needed to add
>> some RAM.
>>
>> I bought my current shack computer new 5-7 years ago, an i7 Thinkpad with
>> not enough RAM for $760. I've since added 8 GB and an SSD. It has no
>> problem with WSJT-X, nor with SO2R RTTY contesting -- two radios, each with
>> two RTTY decoders, logging software, and  browsers, all running
>> simultaneously. A comparable machine could probably be bought used for
>> about $500.
>>
>> I think the real obstacle is ignorance on the part of many hams as to
>> what's available at moderate cost. I would encourage your ongoing
>> development, along with an education campaign about hardware.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>> Jim,
>>
>> it would be helpful if you take the time to review the CPU specs of each
>> of your machines that run WSJT-X (or MAP65) and determine if they support
>> the AVX instruction set. With MS Windows this can be done by looking at the
>> System panel (Windows+X then select System), find the CPU model (it is in
>> the middle of the page) and look it up on the manufacture's web site. For
>> example I might do an internet search for "Intel Core i7-3630QM specs" and
>> go to the ark.intel.com link at the top of that search
>> https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/71459/intel-core-i7-3630qm-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-40-ghz.html
>> . On that page under "Advanced Technologies" I find AVX, you may also see
>> AVX2 or even one of the AVX512 versions, all of those include AVX support.
>> Let me know if any of your WSJT-X PCs do not support AVX.
>>
>> 73
>> Bill
>> G4WJS.
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Doug Bates]

One more old retired Amateur with older computing hardware. Not likely to
be upgraded any time soon on a limited retirement budget. Please keep
backward compatibility as long as possible.
73 de KV4ZY

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 6:11 AM Bill Somerville 
wrote:

> On 09/06/2021 09:37, Jim Brown wrote:
>
> On 6/8/2021 4:38 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:
>
> we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take advantage
> of some parallel processing features of modern CPU architectures.
>
>
> Bill,
>
> I have a half dozen Thinkpads of various vintages, most running i7
> processors, two running i5s. At least half were purchased as refurbs for
> less than $500. Machines like this are widely available in the States, so
> that on this side of the pond, hardware should be no limitation for any ham
> willing to spend a modest amount for a computer. In the case of one machine
> (the one in my shack, about 5 years old purchased new), I needed to add
> some RAM.
>
> I bought my current shack computer new 5-7 years ago, an i7 Thinkpad with
> not enough RAM for $760. I've since added 8 GB and an SSD. It has no
> problem with WSJT-X, nor with SO2R RTTY contesting -- two radios, each with
> two RTTY decoders, logging software, and  browsers, all running
> simultaneously. A comparable machine could probably be bought used for
> about $500.
>
> I think the real obstacle is ignorance on the part of many hams as to
> what's available at moderate cost. I would encourage your ongoing
> development, along with an education campaign about hardware.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> Jim,
>
> it would be helpful if you take the time to review the CPU specs of each
> of your machines that run WSJT-X (or MAP65) and determine if they support
> the AVX instruction set. With MS Windows this can be done by looking at the
> System panel (Windows+X then select System), find the CPU model (it is in
> the middle of the page) and look it up on the manufacture's web site. For
> example I might do an internet search for "Intel Core i7-3630QM specs" and
> go to the ark.intel.com link at the top of that search
> https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/71459/intel-core-i7-3630qm-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-40-ghz.html
> . On that page under "Advanced Technologies" I find AVX, you may also see
> AVX2 or even one of the AVX512 versions, all of those include AVX support.
> Let me know if any of your WSJT-X PCs do not support AVX.
>
> 73
> Bill
> G4WJS.
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[g3vnc]

On 09/06/2021 00:38, Bill Somerville wrote:
all I need to know is who or how many of you are using the older CPU 
architectures


Hello Bill

My radio PC uses an Intel Xeon 5450.  It does not support AVX.

73
Nick
G3VNC



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Reino Talarmo]

Hi Bill,
One of my older Lenovo X201 series does not support AVX (i5-520M). Newer
ones do support (but not AVX2).
73, Reino OH3mA

PS. i3-370M that was mentioned seems not to support, but i7-2600 on the same
page does.


-Alkuperäinen viesti-
Lähettäjä: Bill Somerville [mailto:g4...@classdesign.com] 
Lähetetty: 09 June 2021 02:38
Vastaanottaja: WSJT software development 
Aihe: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for
WSJT-X

Hi all WSJT-X users,

we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take advantage
of some parallel processing features of modern CPU architectures. In order
to gauge how much backwards compatibility for older CPUs we will have to
implement it would help to know who is using such older processors. Please
don't turn this thread in to a mine is better than yours conversation, all I
need to know is who or how many of you are using the older CPU
architectures. Note that this applies to MS Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel
macOS users, it is about CPUs not operating systems.

The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all Intel
CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also present on
AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late Athlon-II
CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.

Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support the AVX
technology.

So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me know.

73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[DG2YCB, Uwe]

Hi Bill,

My notebook has a "Genuine Intel(R) CPU U7300" CPU (=Intel Core2 Duo U7300)
which as far as I know does not support AVX. 
On my PCs, two out of three CPUs do support AVX (Intel i5-6600 and AMD
A8-5600), one does not (Intel Pentium 4). One very old notebook does not
support AVX either (Intel Pentium I).

73 de DG2YCB,
Uwe

German Amateur Radio Station DG2YCB
Dr. Uwe Risse
eMail: dg2...@gmx.de
Info: www.qrz.com/db/DG2YCB

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Bill Somerville [mailto:g4...@classdesign.com] 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 9. Juni 2021 01:38
An: WSJT software development
Betreff: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for
WSJT-X

Hi all WSJT-X users,

we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take 
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU 
architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for 
older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is using 
such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a mine is 
better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or how many of 
you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this applies to MS 
Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about CPUs not 
operating systems.

The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all 
Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also 
present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late 
Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.

Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support the 
AVX technology.

So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX** 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me 
know.

73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Marco Calistri]

  
Il 08/06/21 20:38, Bill Somerville ha
  scritto:

Hi
  all WSJT-X users,
  
  
  we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take
  advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU
  architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility
  for older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who
  is using such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in
  to a mine is better than yours conversation, all I need to know is
  who or how many of you are using the older CPU architectures. Note
  that this applies to MS Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS
  users, it is about CPUs not operating systems.
  
  
  The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on
  all Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present),
  it is also present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU
  models (some late Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including
  Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.
  
  
  Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not
  support the AVX technology.
  
  
  So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then
  let me know.
  
  
  73
  
  Bill
  
  G4WJS.
  
  
  
  
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Hi Bill,

My CPU is this and at least if I'm not wrong, it supports AVX code:

Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz (family: 0x6, model: 0x2a, stepping: 0x7)
x86/fpu: Supporting XSAVE feature 0x004: 'AVX registers'
AVX version of gcm_enc/dec engaged.


---
  73 de Marco, PY1ZRJ (former IK5BCU)
  
  

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Bill Somerville]

On 09/06/2021 09:37, Jim Brown wrote:

On 6/8/2021 4:38 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:
we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take 
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU 
architectures.


Bill,

I have a half dozen Thinkpads of various vintages, most running i7 
processors, two running i5s. At least half were purchased as refurbs 
for less than $500. Machines like this are widely available in the 
States, so that on this side of the pond, hardware should be no 
limitation for any ham willing to spend a modest amount for a 
computer. In the case of one machine (the one in my shack, about 5 
years old purchased new), I needed to add some RAM.


I bought my current shack computer new 5-7 years ago, an i7 Thinkpad 
with not enough RAM for $760. I've since added 8 GB and an SSD. It has 
no problem with WSJT-X, nor with SO2R RTTY contesting -- two radios, 
each with two RTTY decoders, logging software, and  browsers, all 
running simultaneously. A comparable machine could probably be bought 
used for about $500.


I think the real obstacle is ignorance on the part of many hams as to 
what's available at moderate cost. I would encourage your ongoing 
development, along with an education campaign about hardware.


73, Jim K9YC 


Jim,

it would be helpful if you take the time to review the CPU specs of each 
of your machines that run WSJT-X (or MAP65) and determine if they 
support the AVX instruction set. With MS Windows this can be done by 
looking at the System panel (Windows+X then select System), find the CPU 
model (it is in the middle of the page) and look it up on the 
manufacture's web site. For example I might do an internet search for 
"Intel Core i7-3630QM specs" and go to the ark.intel.com link at the top 
of that search 
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/71459/intel-core-i7-3630qm-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-40-ghz.html 
. On that page under "Advanced Technologies" I find AVX, you may also 
see AVX2 or even one of the AVX512 versions, all of those include AVX 
support. Let me know if any of your WSJT-X PCs do not support AVX.


73
Bill
G4WJS.

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Bill Somerville]

On 09/06/2021 07:01, Claude Frantz wrote:

On 6/9/21 1:38 AM, Bill Somerville wrote:

Hi Bill and all,

The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all 
Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is 
also present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models 
(some late Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 
2013 to present.


None of the computers I'm using to run WSJT-X has the AVX extensions.

In my opinion, the planed performance enhancements with AVX should be 
optional and not mandatory. Perhaps a compile time option.


Best wishes,
Claude (DJ0OT) 


Claude,

we have no intention of supporting multiple version of WSJT-X (and 
MAP65) for different CPU instruction sets, any optimization using AVX 
will be selected automatically at runtime based on availability, and 
other than resulting speed differences will be invisible to the user.


73
Bill
G4WJS.

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[alan2]

It depends on one's own financial situation as to what is moderate or 
modest cost!


It seems many hams are on retirement incomes so while I agree move 
things forward for those with modern hardware and/or financial means to 
improve their hardware, those with perhaps very ancient hardware being 
used to enjoy their hobby shouldn't be forgotten.


Alan G0TLK

On 09/06/2021 09:37, Jim Brown wrote:

On 6/8/2021 4:38 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:
we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take 
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU 
architectures.


Bill,

I have a half dozen Thinkpads of various vintages, most running i7 
processors, two running i5s. At least half were purchased as refurbs 
for less than $500. Machines like this are widely available in the 
States, so that on this side of the pond, hardware should be no 
limitation for any ham willing to spend a modest amount for a 
computer. In the case of one machine (the one in my shack, about 5 
years old purchased new), I needed to add some RAM.


I bought my current shack computer new 5-7 years ago, an i7 Thinkpad 
with not enough RAM for $760. I've since added 8 GB and an SSD. It has 
no problem with WSJT-X, nor with SO2R RTTY contesting -- two radios, 
each with two RTTY decoders, logging software, and  browsers, all 
running simultaneously. A comparable machine could probably be bought 
used for about $500.


I think the real obstacle is ignorance on the part of many hams as to 
what's available at moderate cost. I would encourage your ongoing 
development, along with an education campaign about hardware.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Jim Brown]

On 6/8/2021 4:38 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:
we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take 
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU architectures.


Bill,

I have a half dozen Thinkpads of various vintages, most running i7 
processors, two running i5s. At least half were purchased as refurbs for 
less than $500. Machines like this are widely available in the States, 
so that on this side of the pond, hardware should be no limitation for 
any ham willing to spend a modest amount for a computer. In the case of 
one machine (the one in my shack, about 5 years old purchased new), I 
needed to add some RAM.


I bought my current shack computer new 5-7 years ago, an i7 Thinkpad 
with not enough RAM for $760. I've since added 8 GB and an SSD. It has 
no problem with WSJT-X, nor with SO2R RTTY contesting -- two radios, 
each with two RTTY decoders, logging software, and  browsers, all 
running simultaneously. A comparable machine could probably be bought 
used for about $500.


I think the real obstacle is ignorance on the part of many hams as to 
what's available at moderate cost. I would encourage your ongoing 
development, along with an education campaign about hardware.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Jonathan Magee]

Hi Bill
I use a Raspberry PI for running Wsjtx
Regards
Jonathan

On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 at 00:40, Bill Somerville  wrote:

> Hi all WSJT-X users,
>
> we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take
> advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU
> architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for
> older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is using
> such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a mine is
> better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or how many of
> you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this applies to MS
> Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about CPUs not
> operating systems.
>
> The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all
> Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also
> present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late
> Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.
>
> Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support the
> AVX technology.
>
> So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me
> know.
>
> 73
> Bill
> G4WJS.
>
>
>
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Claude Frantz]

On 6/9/21 1:38 AM, Bill Somerville wrote:

Hi Bill and all,

The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all 
Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also 
present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late 
Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.


None of the computers I'm using to run WSJT-X has the AVX extensions.

In my opinion, the planed performance enhancements with AVX should be 
optional and not mandatory. Perhaps a compile time option.


Best wishes,
Claude (DJ0OT)


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Leslie L]

 I use a  processor from before Noah,  an  AMD Athlon II X4 630 2.8 GHz,
 I believe its  pre- 2011 and useS the K10  microarchitecture , which
doesn't  support AVX calls.

73
LES
W2LPL



On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 8:15 PM Bill Somerville 
wrote:

> Warren,
>
> I did say "In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for older
> CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is using such
> older processors." Of course we would build in support for older
> technologies.
>
> 73
> Bill
> G4WJS.
>
> On 09/06/2021 01:02, halst...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Many people snag old tablet computers for portable use, so I am going to
> conjecture that there are a good number that do not support AVX out there.
>
> Even the new(-ish) Surface Go 2 has a Pentium Gold processor without AVX.
>
> (Note: Pentium and Celeron processors based off the Tiger Lake have AVX2
> and AVX-512 support).
>
> Is there a way to build the support in and only make the AVX calls if the
> software detects CPU compatibility?
>
> Warren
> KN6HXP
>
> On Tue, Jun 8, 2021, 4:38 PM Bill Somerville 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all WSJT-X users,
>>
>> we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take
>> advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU
>> architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for
>> older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is using
>> such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a mine is
>> better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or how many of
>> you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this applies to MS
>> Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about CPUs not
>> operating systems.
>>
>> The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all
>> Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also
>> present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late
>> Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to
>> present.
>>
>> Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support the
>> AVX technology.
>>
>> So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
>> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me
>> know.
>>
>> 73
>> Bill
>> G4WJS.
>>
>
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[KC7QY]

Bill,
I''m still on a Pentium. I'm in the process of changing to a much new machine 
(i7) but if you had asked a month ago I'd still be mired in a Pentium.
Jim KC7QY 

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021, 05:40:53 PM MDT, Bill Somerville 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi all WSJT-X users,

we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take 
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU 
architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for 
older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is using 
such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a mine is 
better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or how many of 
you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this applies to MS 
Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about CPUs not 
operating systems.

The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all 
Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also 
present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late 
Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.

Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support the 
AVX technology.

So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX** 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me 
know.

73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Richard Shaw]

On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 7:20 PM Bill Somerville 
wrote:

> On 09/06/2021 01:02, Richard Shaw wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 6:44 PM Bill Somerville 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all
>> Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also
>> present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late
>> Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to
>> present.
>>
>
> Will this be auto-detected and used on demand? For linux distro's we can't
> assume it's available and force enable it on the gcc command line.
>
> Thanks,
> Richard
> KF5OIM
>
> Richard,
>
> I did say "In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for older
> CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is using such
> older processors." Of course we would build in support for older
> technologies.
>

Not exactly what I meant. We (Fedora Linux) can only assume certain
processor facilities can be "assumed" when targeting a specific platform
(x86_64, i686, s390x, ppc, aarch64, etc.). Which is separate from my desire
to take advantage of them.

It's a bit more complicated, but it is possible to detect and use these
features at runtime.

Thanks,
Richard
KF5OIM
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Bill Somerville]

On 09/06/2021 01:02, Richard Shaw wrote:
On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 6:44 PM Bill Somerville > wrote:



The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all
Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is
also
present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models
(some late
Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to
present.


Will this be auto-detected and used on demand? For linux distro's we 
can't assume it's available and force enable it on the gcc command line.


Thanks,
Richard
KF5OIM


Richard,

I did say "In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for older 
CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is using such 
older processors." Of course we would build in support for older 
technologies.


73
Bill
G4WJS.

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Bill Somerville]

Warren,

I did say "In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for older 
CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is using such 
older processors." Of course we would build in support for older 
technologies.


73
Bill
G4WJS.

On 09/06/2021 01:02, halst...@gmail.com wrote:
Many people snag old tablet computers for portable use, so I am going 
to conjecture that there are a good number that do not support AVX out 
there.


Even the new(-ish) Surface Go 2 has a Pentium Gold processor without AVX.

(Note: Pentium and Celeron processors based off the Tiger Lake have 
AVX2 and AVX-512 support).


Is there a way to build the support in and only make the AVX calls if 
the software detects CPU compatibility?


Warren
KN6HXP

On Tue, Jun 8, 2021, 4:38 PM Bill Somerville > wrote:


Hi all WSJT-X users,

we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU
architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for
older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is
using
such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a mine is
better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or how
many of
you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this applies
to MS
Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about CPUs not
operating systems.

The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all
Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is
also
present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models
(some late
Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to
present.

Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not
support the
AVX technology.

So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions
) then
let me
know.

73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Richard Shaw]

On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 6:44 PM Bill Somerville 
wrote:

>
> The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all
> Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also
> present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late
> Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.
>

Will this be auto-detected and used on demand? For linux distro's we can't
assume it's available and force enable it on the gcc command line.

Thanks,
Richard
KF5OIM
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[halst...@gmail.com]

Many people snag old tablet computers for portable use, so I am going to
conjecture that there are a good number that do not support AVX out there.

Even the new(-ish) Surface Go 2 has a Pentium Gold processor without AVX.

(Note: Pentium and Celeron processors based off the Tiger Lake have AVX2
and AVX-512 support).

Is there a way to build the support in and only make the AVX calls if the
software detects CPU compatibility?

Warren
KN6HXP

On Tue, Jun 8, 2021, 4:38 PM Bill Somerville  wrote:

> Hi all WSJT-X users,
>
> we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take
> advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU
> architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for
> older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is using
> such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a mine is
> better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or how many of
> you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this applies to MS
> Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about CPUs not
> operating systems.
>
> The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all
> Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also
> present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late
> Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.
>
> Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support the
> AVX technology.
>
> So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me
> know.
>
> 73
> Bill
> G4WJS.
>
>
>
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[wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Bill Somerville]

Hi all WSJT-X users,

we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take 
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU 
architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for 
older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is using 
such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a mine is 
better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or how many of 
you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this applies to MS 
Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about CPUs not 
operating systems.


The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all 
Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also 
present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late 
Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.


Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support the 
AVX technology.


So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX** 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me 
know.


73
Bill
G4WJS.



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