Re: Xastir in a Virtual Appliance Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
Tom Russo wrote: On Tue, Nov 07, 2006 at 10:31:09PM -0500, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: I tried this method and it works very well. Go to www.vmware.com and download the free VMWare Player. Install on your windows machine. Also on the VMWare site, download a virtual machine for Mepis Linux, Ubuntu Linux, or Kubuntu. Once it is downloaded, start the virtual machine in the VMWare player. Now you have Linux running as a virtual machine on your windows machine - at the same time. While running Mepis, Ubuntu or Kubuntu, using the Package Manager, download Xastir - it will install in the virtual machine. Set it up to use AGWPE (yeah, download and install this first) on your windows machine. Use the IP address of the windows machine in order for Xastir to find AGWPE running on the windows O/S. Now you can have Windows and Linux running at the same time, on the same PC. Since Linux is a virtual machine, it will not interfere with Windows. You can have the best of both worlds, on one PC, at the same time. After reading the thread that this article started, ... Great work, Tom! Keep it up. I know there are many that will appreciate your efforts. Z ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Xastir in a Virtual Appliance Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Tue, Nov 07, 2006 at 10:31:09PM -0500, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > I tried this method and it works very well. > > Go to www.vmware.com and download the free VMWare Player. Install on > your windows machine. > > Also on the VMWare site, download a virtual machine for Mepis Linux, > Ubuntu Linux, or Kubuntu. > > Once it is downloaded, start the virtual machine in the VMWare player. > Now you have Linux running as a virtual machine on your windows machine > - at the same time. > > While running Mepis, Ubuntu or Kubuntu, using the Package Manager, > download Xastir - it will install in the virtual machine. > > Set it up to use AGWPE (yeah, download and install this first) on your > windows machine. Use the IP address of the windows machine in order for > Xastir to find AGWPE running on the windows O/S. > > Now you can have Windows and Linux running at the same time, on the same > PC. Since Linux is a virtual machine, it will not interfere with Windows. > > You can have the best of both worlds, on one PC, at the same time. After reading the thread that this article started, I went ahead and bought VMware Workstation for my new Ubuntu laptop. I probably could have just used the vmware server, but in the end decided that US$200 was worth it, especially since I needed virtualization for something else anyway. This past weekend I generated a relatively small virtual appliance containing a slightly-stripped-down Xubuntu distribution, all the libraries and development packages needed to build xastir, the Xastir source tree checked out from CVS, and Xastir built with almost all optional libraries (I left out festival and gdal/ogr, but have everything else). I even set up three interfaces (an internet server, a D700, and a KPC3) most of the way, so that a user could just finish up a few small configuration options and get on the air using a virtual serial port to communicate with the TNC (instead of having to set up AGWPE) --- even if that virtual serial port is provided by a USB to Serial adapter through the Windows side. The entire thing, with no added maps, zips down to a bit over 500MB, still plenty small enough for a CD to distribute in Xastir evangelical work. I chose the Xubuntu distribution over Ubuntu or Kubuntu because of the light-weight desktop environment it provides through Xfce instead of Gnome or KDE. Xubuntu's a distribution intended to bring a usable linux desktop experience even to old, slow processors with not much disk space --- which sounded like a perfect choice for a virtual machine that could wind up being installed on a loaded Windows box. It's not the slickest desktop and is not all that much like Windows, but it stays out of the way and lets xastir have most of the cycles. Properly set up with xastir as a desktop icon and help files on the desktop, the rest of the environment shouldn't be all that important anyway. I stripped out the open office word processor to make more space, since the Xubuntu distribution comes with a lighter weight WP that I can't remove (it's part of the desktop package) and most Windows users would just use Word natively anyway. Unfortuntely I was unable to strip out some of the other baggage like the Gaim IM chat client and some of the multimedia stuff, becuase it, too, was a dependency of the actual desktop package and couldn't be removed without removing the desktop, too. I am also working on a localized version with added maps, but went overboard and will have to pare it down a lot if I'm to make it a reasonably sized Zip file. I thought I was done with the no-added-maps appliance, but in the process of writing some help files in html (so that users have a "click here to get started" document), I figured out some ways that I want to refine the more bare-bones one, too (like, using NAT instead of bridged ethernet, for those users who might only have one IP address available to them, and possibly smbfs and cups services so that the linux VM can get at Windows printers and disk shares). Once I'm done, the no-local-maps version should be a perfectly general virtual appliance for anyone to use for APRS instead of starting with one of the generic linux distros available through the VMware site. Since the VM contains a CVS checkout of xastir and all libraries and headers it needs to build, updating xastir is as simple in the appliance as a "cvs update" and a "source reconfigure && make && sudo make install" operation (I've provided a "reconfigure" script to hold a few extra command line options). Unfortunately, there is no way I could possibly serve the 500+MB file to share it with more than one or two people through a temporary FTP site. So if anyone were to find this useful, it might be desirable for someone with huge bandwidth capabilities to get it started as a torrent the way the other virtual appliances are distributed. If th
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 07:40:28AM -0700, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 07:47:33AM -0600, we recorded a bogon-computron > collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > > > > Just did another cvs update and tried again. noticed that we're > > using a library instead of linking 'em in. > > > > Still no joy. looks like something is missing in the link paths: > > Argh. Yeah, testawk needs shapelib linked in and I didn't set the makefile > to > do that. Lemme fix it. Fixed in CVS. I had forgotten to add a "testawk_LDADD" line to src/Makefile.am to force the local shapelib into the link phase. Why this didn't fail when I was testing this is another question. I think it might be that the link picked up the routines in GDAL with identical names, which is a scary thought. As long as those internal routines in GDAL are always compatible with the same functions in shapelib (they are identical right now) it should be ok, but if they ever diverge then we'll be in the same boat as we were with libgeotiff, as Curt mentioned at the beginning of all this. Fortunately shapelib is very stable and is unlikely to be changed much, while the geotiff issues were a relic from back when the old libgeotiff needed to monkey with private interfaces of the tiff library, and was very sensitive. -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 06:43:23AM -0800, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Tom Russo wrote: > > > > GDAL does not use shapelib. It has its own shapefile handling. > > > > Which, of course, is nothing more than slightly modified versions of > > shapelib routines. But the fact that gdal has always peacefully coexisted > > with shapelib when it was a shared library should imply that it will > > peacefully > > coexist with it as a static-linked library. > > I recall some problems with _something_ that GDAL used that Xastir > also used, and we had to change our link lines to force a certain > order of linking to fix it. I can't recall which library it was now > that did it, but could have been proj, libgeotiff, shapelib, or > something else. Libgeotiff. There were some routines in libgeotiff that conflicted with those in gdal if gdal was configured to use internal geotiff and xastir was linked with an external geotiff, too. > I also seem to remember that GDAL _could_ use external libraries if > installed rather than its internal libraries. Perhaps Shapelib is > not one of those though. Doesn't really matter to us I guess unless > we run into version/linking issues. Shapelib is not one of them. Gdal is never linked against shapelib, it has its own internal stuff. And for a reason that escapes me, that internal stuff, while similarly named, does not conflict with shapelib the way we use it in xastir. -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Tom Russo wrote: > > GDAL does not use shapelib. It has its own shapefile handling. > > Which, of course, is nothing more than slightly modified versions of > shapelib routines. But the fact that gdal has always peacefully coexisted > with shapelib when it was a shared library should imply that it will > peacefully > coexist with it as a static-linked library. I recall some problems with _something_ that GDAL used that Xastir also used, and we had to change our link lines to force a certain order of linking to fix it. I can't recall which library it was now that did it, but could have been proj, libgeotiff, shapelib, or something else. I also seem to remember that GDAL _could_ use external libraries if installed rather than its internal libraries. Perhaps Shapelib is not one of those though. Doesn't really matter to us I guess unless we run into version/linking issues. -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 07:47:33AM -0600, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > > Just did another cvs update and tried again. noticed that we're > using a library instead of linking 'em in. > > Still no joy. looks like something is missing in the link paths: Argh. Yeah, testawk needs shapelib linked in and I didn't set the makefile to do that. Lemme fix it. -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
Just did another cvs update and tried again. noticed that we're using a library instead of linking 'em in. Still no joy. looks like something is missing in the link paths: gcc -g -O2 -pipe -W -Wall -Wpointer-arith -Wstrict-prototypes -Wno- unused-parameter -L/usr/local/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -o testawk testawk.o awk.o dbfawk.o rpl_malloc.o -lXm -lXt -lX11 -lXpm -lcurl - lXm -lXt -lXp -lXext -lSM -lICE -lX11 -lpcre /usr/bin/ld: Undefined symbols: _DBFClose _DBFGetRecordCount _DBFOpen _DBFGetFieldCount _DBFGetFieldIndex _DBFGetFieldInfo _DBFReadDoubleAttribute _DBFReadIntegerAttribute _DBFReadStringAttribute collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[3]: *** [testawk] Error 1 -Jason kg4wsv ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On November 12, 2006 10:16 am, Tom Russo wrote: > On Sun, Nov 12, 2006 at 10:58:03AM -0700, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > > Just tried cvs update -d update. I have shapefiles installed (for > > years). Using Slack 9.1 > > > > Last cvs update was done Nov 2, 2006 > > Nothing has changed! (I don't think) > > > > Following errors with cvs update -d OR cvs update > > > > * > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/xastir$ cvs update -d > > cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied > > cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied > > cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied > > cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied > > cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied > > cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied > > Looks like perhaps you have files in your CVS directory that are not owned > by you --- did you maybe run "cvs update" as root by accident? You hit it on the nose I'll fix up later Thx... Tom ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Sun, Nov 12, 2006 at 10:58:03AM -0700, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > Just tried cvs update -d update. I have shapefiles installed (for years). > Using Slack 9.1 > > Last cvs update was done Nov 2, 2006 > Nothing has changed! (I don't think) > > Following errors with cvs update -d OR cvs update > > * > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/xastir$ cvs update -d > cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied > cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied > cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied > cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied > cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied > cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied Looks like perhaps you have files in your CVS directory that are not owned by you --- did you maybe run "cvs update" as root by accident? > cvs update: Updating symbols > cvs update: cannot remove src/shapelib/contrib/tests: Permission denied > cvs [update aborted]: cannot open src/shapelib/contrib/CVS: Permission denied > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/xastir$ > * > > Here is the result of last part of ./configure > > config.status: creating src/rtree/Makefile > config.status: creating src/shapelib/Makefile > config.status: error: cannot find input file: src/shapelib/Makefile.in > > * There is clearly something wrong with your CVS directory, because cvs is getting permission denied errors when you update. You need to fix that problem before you can expect the stuff downstream of it to work properly. Clearly, the shapelib directory didn't get updated, so when configure tries to use it there are errors. Try this from your top-level xastir directory: ls -l CVS If you see any files there that are owned by root (or by any user other than va7gq), then you need to "chmod" them. Assuming your other files are all owned by va7gq and that your va7gq user is in the va7gq group, you'd do that this way: sudo chown -R va7gq:va7gq . from the top level of the xastir directory. This sets all files in the entire directory tree to be owned by user va7gq (the thing before the colon) and group va7gq (the thing after the colon). You have to do this as root (or with sudo) otherwise you'll get permission denied errors when you try to change ownership of files from root to yourself. -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
Just tried cvs update -d update. I have shapefiles installed (for years). Using Slack 9.1 Last cvs update was done Nov 2, 2006 Nothing has changed! (I don't think) Following errors with cvs update -d OR cvs update * [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/xastir$ cvs update -d cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied ? config/install-exec-hook ? src/compiledate.c cvs update: Updating . cvs update: Updating Davis cvs update: Updating Davis/src cvs update: Updating LaCrosse cvs update: Updating LaCrosse/autom4te.cache cvs update: Updating LaCrosse/src cvs update: Updating callpass cvs update: Updating config cvs update: Updating help cvs update: Updating intl cvs update: Updating m4 cvs update: Updating po cvs update: Updating scripts cvs update: Updating src cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied cvs update: Updating src/Davis cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied cvs update: Updating src/Davis/src cvs update: Updating src/callpass cvs update: Updating src/rtree cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied cvs update: Updating src/shapelib cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied cvs update: Updating src/shapelib/contrib cvs update: cannot rewrite CVS/Entries.Backup: Permission denied cvs update: Updating src/shapelib/contrib/doc cvs update: Updating src/shapelib/contrib/tests cvs update: Updating symbols cvs update: cannot remove src/shapelib/contrib/tests: Permission denied cvs [update aborted]: cannot open src/shapelib/contrib/CVS: Permission denied [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/xastir$ * Here is the result of last part of ./configure config.status: creating src/rtree/Makefile config.status: creating src/shapelib/Makefile config.status: error: cannot find input file: src/shapelib/Makefile.in * ...73 Tom On November 10, 2006 01:53 pm, Tom Russo wrote: > On Fri, Nov 10, 2006 at 02:40:50PM -0700, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > > On Fri, Nov 10, 2006 at 01:47:54PM -0700, we recorded a bogon-computron > > collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > > > > [on the subject of making shapelib build as a part of xastir's build if > > it isn't installed] > > > > > Unfortunately, that does imply that we'll have to hack on shapelib's > > > makefile, as Jason points out. That should not be difficult. > > > > > > I'm bored now. I might look into this right this minute. > > > > Took slightly longer than planned to do this, but I'm about to check it > > in. If you already have shapelib installed it'll use that, if not, it > > builds and uses a static version. > > > > Also, if you have shapelib installed, you can (for the moment) forced it > > to use the internal one with "--without-shapelib" (mostly for testing). > > Done. > > CVS users can try it out when it hits anon CVS (that's fast these days, > right?) as long as you're careful to do "cvs update -d" to get the new > directory. > > I'd appreciate folks trying it out, because while it *should* just build > everywhere due to the simplicity of the library, I have only tested it on > one platform. ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Sun, Nov 12, 2006 at 07:46:39AM -0600, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > > On Nov 10, 2006, at 4:06 PM, Curt, WE7U wrote: > > >Anyone tried it on MacOSX yet? > > OK, second try is going better after RTFM. Did a cvs -d, got the > source code but the same results from configure. The "WARNING" is expected if you don't have shapelib. If you *have* shapelib and it's giving you that, there's a problem. > Ran bootstrap.sh > before running configure and it was happier. You *always* have to run bootstrap.sh if configure.ac or any Makefile.am has changed. Not doing so can be a real problem. -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Nov 10, 2006, at 4:06 PM, Curt, WE7U wrote: Anyone tried it on MacOSX yet? OK, second try is going better after RTFM. Did a cvs -d, got the source code but the same results from configure. Ran bootstrap.sh before running configure and it was happier. configure made the right noises, compile is running now. I'm late for a balloon chase; I'll have to run it when I get back. -Jason kg4wsv ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Sat, Nov 11, 2006 at 08:50:43PM -0600, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > > On Nov 10, 2006, at 4:06 PM, Curt, WE7U wrote: > > >Anyone tried it on MacOSX yet? > > Yep, just CVSed the latest. no joy. Did you do "cvs update -d" or have "update -d" in your .cvsrc? > In the interest if full disclosure, I had a working install, > everything installed in /usr/local. I just renamed /usr/local and > started a new one for this test. This could have resulted in > something abnormal, but I don't think so. Does it work if you put your /usr/local/ back to normal? -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Nov 11, 2006, at 8:50 PM, Jason Winningham wrote: Yep, just CVSed the latest. no joy. never mind, I'm an idiot. forgot the -d. Trying again. -Jason kg4wsv ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Nov 10, 2006, at 4:06 PM, Curt, WE7U wrote: Anyone tried it on MacOSX yet? Yep, just CVSed the latest. no joy. Started with a clean /usr/local, installed openmotif, pcre and proj. imac:/usr/local/source/xastir jdw$ ./configure checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c checking shapefil.h usability... no checking shapefil.h presence... no checking for shapefil.h... no checking libshp/shapefil.h usability... no checking libshp/shapefil.h presence... no checking for libshp/shapefil.h... no configure: WARNING: *** configure: WARNING: Your system does not have shapelib installed. Using configure: WARNING: an internal version, which will lead to larger executable configure: WARNING: file size. To eliminate this warning, install shapelib on your system. . config.status: creating src/shapelib/Makefile config.status: error: cannot find input file: src/shapelib/Makefile.in imac:/usr/local/source/xastir jdw$ In the interest if full disclosure, I had a working install, everything installed in /usr/local. I just renamed /usr/local and started a new one for this test. This could have resulted in something abnormal, but I don't think so. config.log is attached for your viewing pleasure. -Jason kg4wsv ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows]]
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Darryl Gibson wrote: > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Darryl > > As long as it is clearly stated where it came from (The Sproul Brothers, or > Keith Sproul, WU2Z) however you want to state it.. Thanks! We'll add the attribution to the README.MAPS file and probably one or two of the other README* or INSTALL files. -- Curt, WE7U. archer at eskimo dot com http://www.eskimo.com/~archer Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math. - unknown Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates. - WE7U. The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
[Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows]]
Original Message Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows] Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:47:03 -0500 (EST) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Darryl As long as it is clearly stated where it came from (The Sproul Brothers, or Keith Sproul, WU2Z) however you want to state it.. Keith -Original Message- From: Darryl Gibson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Nov 10, 2006 7:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows] Hello Keith, Long time no QSO, we used to bump into each other on the OBTTN. The Xastir gang would like to use your WORLDHI.MAP as part of their software distribution, is that ok with you? 73 Darryl N2DIY Original Message Subject: Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:06:27 -0800 (PST) From: Curt, WE7U <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Curt Mills, WE7U <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Tom Russo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: Xastir@xastir.org (snip) BTW: I looked into the WORLDHI.MAP file. It lists WU2Z in there, which I think is one of the Sproul brothers. Anyone care to ask them if we could use it? Otherwise we can find other suitable sources, and now they can be Shapefiles. The one on APRSWorld is a bit large, but nice. The text also says it is NAD27 datum, whereas we want NAD83 or WGS84. At that scale it probably doesn't matter though. -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir -- Darryl Gibson N2DIY RLU X 182668/379552 ?Arms are the only true badges of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave.? -- Andrew Fletcher, A Discourse of Government with relation to Militias (1698) Keith Sproul Hot Air Balloon Pilot http://www.skychariot.com/ -- Darryl Gibson N2DIY RLU X 182668/379552 “Arms are the only true badges of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave.” -- Andrew Fletcher, A Discourse of Government with relation to Militias (1698) ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
Darryl Gibson wrote: Yep, that's Keith, we used to handle traffic together. If I can track down his email address, I'll ask him. Done, waiting for a reply. -- Darryl Gibson N2DIY RLU X 182668/379552 “Arms are the only true badges of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave.” -- Andrew Fletcher, A Discourse of Government with relation to Militias (1698) ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
Curt, WE7U wrote: BTW: I looked into the WORLDHI.MAP file. It lists WU2Z in there, which I think is one of the Sproul brothers. Anyone care to ask them if we could use it? Yep, that's Keith, we used to handle traffic together. If I can track down his email address, I'll ask him. -- Darryl Gibson N2DIY RLU X 182668/379552 “Arms are the only true badges of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave.” -- Andrew Fletcher, A Discourse of Government with relation to Militias (1698) ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Fri, Nov 10, 2006 at 03:21:14PM -0700, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > On Fri, Nov 10, 2006 at 02:12:33PM -0800, we recorded a bogon-computron > collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > > > > > *) Will GDAL/OGR and the private Shapelib both install properly into > > Xastir at the same time? If not, then we need notes in the Shapelib > > and GDAL/OGR docs that talk about installing Shapelib separately > > first. > > GDAL does not use shapelib. It has its own shapefile handling. Which, of course, is nothing more than slightly modified versions of shapelib routines. But the fact that gdal has always peacefully coexisted with shapelib when it was a shared library should imply that it will peacefully coexist with it as a static-linked library. -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Fri, Nov 10, 2006 at 02:12:33PM -0800, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > > Just thought of some more things: > > *) The docs need to get updated to talk about the private version of > Shapelib. Yeah. > *) Will GDAL/OGR and the private Shapelib both install properly into > Xastir at the same time? If not, then we need notes in the Shapelib > and GDAL/OGR docs that talk about installing Shapelib separately > first. GDAL does not use shapelib. It has its own shapefile handling. > *) Change the get-maptools.sh script to skip Shapelib now? Should > we deprecate the get_shapelib.sh script? A most emphatic NO. Internal shapelib support should be considered a last resort of those uninterested in pursuing proper shared library support. Anyone interested enough to want to use xastir seriously should install shapelib properly. Only if it's a big problem to do so on their system (like, there's no package for it, or they just don't care about code bloat) should the internal one be used. -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
Just thought of some more things: *) The docs need to get updated to talk about the private version of Shapelib. *) Will GDAL/OGR and the private Shapelib both install properly into Xastir at the same time? If not, then we need notes in the Shapelib and GDAL/OGR docs that talk about installing Shapelib separately first. *) Change the get-maptools.sh script to skip Shapelib now? Should we deprecate the get_shapelib.sh script? -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Tom Russo wrote: > Nod. Do you not see those when you build it the normal way? More than likely, but I only do that once every few years per machine. This compile I'll be doing nearly all the time to test things out. Which reminds me, I need to add it to the RECURSION_TESTS script. > We could, of course, fix shapelib code to eliminate warnings if we want. I > did not consider doing so to be part of my mission statement. Those rcsid > things are typical in code that tries to jam CVS tags into strings, which is > a somewhat old-fashioned thing to do (it lets you check internal versioning > stuff using "strings", but modern compilers dislike it). Little things like that we'll fix over time. Anyone tried it on MacOSX yet? Cygwin? BTW: I looked into the WORLDHI.MAP file. It lists WU2Z in there, which I think is one of the Sproul brothers. Anyone care to ask them if we could use it? Otherwise we can find other suitable sources, and now they can be Shapefiles. The one on APRSWorld is a bit large, but nice. The text also says it is NAD27 datum, whereas we want NAD83 or WGS84. At that scale it probably doesn't matter though. -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Fri, Nov 10, 2006 at 01:57:00PM -0800, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Tom Russo wrote: > > > I'd appreciate folks trying it out, because while it *should* just build > > everywhere due to the simplicity of the library, I have only tested it on > > one platform. > > The only thing I saw so far was a few warnings in the Shapelib code: > > shpopen.c:184: warning: rcsid defined but not used > > shptree.c:89: warning: rcsid defined but not used > > dbfopen.c: In function DBFWriteAttribute: > dbfopen.c:1094: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned > dbfopen.c:1112: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned > dbfopen.c: At top level: > dbfopen.c:208: warning: rcsid defined but not used Nod. Do you not see those when you build it the normal way? We could, of course, fix shapelib code to eliminate warnings if we want. I did not consider doing so to be part of my mission statement. Those rcsid things are typical in code that tries to jam CVS tags into strings, which is a somewhat old-fashioned thing to do (it lets you check internal versioning stuff using "strings", but modern compilers dislike it). -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Tom Russo wrote: > I'd appreciate folks trying it out, because while it *should* just build > everywhere due to the simplicity of the library, I have only tested it on > one platform. The only thing I saw so far was a few warnings in the Shapelib code: shpopen.c:184: warning: rcsid defined but not used shptree.c:89: warning: rcsid defined but not used dbfopen.c: In function DBFWriteAttribute: dbfopen.c:1094: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned dbfopen.c:1112: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned dbfopen.c: At top level: dbfopen.c:208: warning: rcsid defined but not used -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Fri, Nov 10, 2006 at 02:40:50PM -0700, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > On Fri, Nov 10, 2006 at 01:47:54PM -0700, we recorded a bogon-computron > collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > > > [on the subject of making shapelib build as a part of xastir's build if it > isn't installed] > > > Unfortunately, that does imply that we'll have to hack on shapelib's > > makefile, > > as Jason points out. That should not be difficult. > > > > I'm bored now. I might look into this right this minute. > > Took slightly longer than planned to do this, but I'm about to check it in. > If you already have shapelib installed it'll use that, if not, it builds and > uses a static version. > > Also, if you have shapelib installed, you can (for the moment) forced it to > use the internal one with "--without-shapelib" (mostly for testing). Done. CVS users can try it out when it hits anon CVS (that's fast these days, right?) as long as you're careful to do "cvs update -d" to get the new directory. I'd appreciate folks trying it out, because while it *should* just build everywhere due to the simplicity of the library, I have only tested it on one platform. -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Fri, Nov 10, 2006 at 01:47:54PM -0700, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > [on the subject of making shapelib build as a part of xastir's build if it isn't installed] > Unfortunately, that does imply that we'll have to hack on shapelib's makefile, > as Jason points out. That should not be difficult. > > I'm bored now. I might look into this right this minute. Took slightly longer than planned to do this, but I'm about to check it in. If you already have shapelib installed it'll use that, if not, it builds and uses a static version. Also, if you have shapelib installed, you can (for the moment) forced it to use the internal one with "--without-shapelib" (mostly for testing). -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Fri, Nov 10, 2006 at 11:12:30AM -0800, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Tom Russo wrote: > > > The best approach would be to have a subdirectory that is conditionally > > compiled. We have one such directory now, the rtree directory. > > In order to get this into the Xastir compile properly we need an > "xastir/src/shapelib/" directory, not "xastir/shapelib/", correct? Yes. > "xastir/src/shapelib/" would put it at the same level as rtree and > allow us to have Xastir's configure set up everything for us. I > seem to remember that Make has troubles with multiple top-level > subdirs. This would avoid that problem. Yes. Although I'm not sure that Make does in fact have trouble with multiple top level directories --- there should be no reason that lower level directories are special. > I put the shapelib-1.2.10 sources into "xastir/src/shapelib/" and > may attempt to merge it into autoconf/automake. If I get the > install to work with/without Shapelib already installed I'll check > it into CVS. > > I'll have to go study after that to see how to link it in > statically, which Tom suggested is the right thing to do in order to > avoid problems with incompatible shared libs in the future. Simple to do. Don't create a shared library. Unfortunately, that does imply that we'll have to hack on shapelib's makefile, as Jason points out. That should not be difficult. I'm bored now. I might look into this right this minute. -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Tom Russo wrote: > The best approach would be to have a subdirectory that is conditionally > compiled. We have one such directory now, the rtree directory. Configure > tests for whether to build that library, and adjusts the makefiles at that > time to either ignore the rtree directory or build the library it contains, > then link to that library statically. The library isn't even installed, > just built and linked. > > So all we need to do is probe for the existance of an installed shapelib. > If it doesn't exist, build shapelib in the subdirectory, link it in > statically. > The machinery for such a thing is already in place in our autoconf/automake > set-up, we just need to emulate the logic used for rtree, but use the > probe for shapelib instead of the command-line flag that rtree uses. > But if we do it right, there's no need to link our own private copy if there's > already one. And if we do link against our private copy statically, there > is no problem if the user later installs an incompatible shared-library > version. > The static-linked version will be fine until the user updates xastir and > reconfigures, at which point the newly installed shared-library version will > be used instead. In order to get this into the Xastir compile properly we need an "xastir/src/shapelib/" directory, not "xastir/shapelib/", correct? "xastir/src/shapelib/" would put it at the same level as rtree and allow us to have Xastir's configure set up everything for us. I seem to remember that Make has troubles with multiple top-level subdirs. This would avoid that problem. I put the shapelib-1.2.10 sources into "xastir/src/shapelib/" and may attempt to merge it into autoconf/automake. If I get the install to work with/without Shapelib already installed I'll check it into CVS. I'll have to go study after that to see how to link it in statically, which Tom suggested is the right thing to do in order to avoid problems with incompatible shared libs in the future. -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Nov 10, 2006, at 10:52 AM, Tom Russo wrote: Good lord. Page for Ms. Pandora. I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read that, else I'd be hosing out my keyboard again. (: If we need to bundle shapelib for some reason (and what was that again?), then we should stop there. IMO, the reasons to bundle shapelib are: - good vector map support for the large number of easily available shapefiles out there - the minor additional packages to make shapelib support pretty and efficient (DB, PCRE, et al) are typically easily installed, if they're not already there (much like X11) - and the biggest one, IMO: shapelib does not build using the defacto standard "./configure; make; make install" model. This makes it more difficult for the novice to get it installed and working. I have to twiddle the included libtool script to get it to build on Mac OS X. -Jason kg4wsv ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Tom Russo wrote: > If we need to bundle shapelib for some reason (and what was that again?), then > we should stop there. > > It might be better to stop before there. We already have a small number of > required libraries -- X11 and Motif --- should we argue that we need to > bundle *those* too?. If it's considered essential to have shapefile support, > why not just bump shapelib's status up to that level and leave it at that? I read your arguments regarding the other libraries, and that's fine by me. I have no strong feelings one way or the other, just want to get all the options out there on the table and see what people think. The reason to always build in Shapelib support is twofold: *) Weather alert capability by default. This assumes the user downloads the NOAA shapefiles via a simple script, which could be automated on install as well. *) Minimum useful map capability by default. In my opinion Shapefile support is the minimum map support necessary, even if we ignore the weather alert stuff. Other people may suggest that online map capability is the desired minimum instead. There's no way that we'd want to include ImageMagick support though, and I wouldn't even dream of suggesting that... We've had more trouble with that one library over the past few years than all the other libraries put together. It would be untenable. I propose that we include Shapelib in some fashion or other, whether it is just the pieces we need or the entire Shapelib CVS. Whether it gets installed statically or dynamically is not a big concern of mine. I can see arguments for doing it via several different methods and any of them would appear to work if implemented correctly. Doing it the way you suggested, where we have a private library that gets compiled/installed in the case where no installed copy is found by configure, sounds like a reasonable way to do it, and would probably require the fewest changes to our configure.ac/aclocal.m4 files. Whether to include the entire Shapelib distribution in a subtree or to include a subset depends on how much we want to maintain it. If we include only a subset then I think we need to do more editing of each file to change the license from LGPL to GPL and such, at least according to what I read. If we include the whole thing, then we just need to periodically refresh all the files, and we can leave them as-is. I think including the whole thing would be the easiest in the long run. It's not that big anyway. -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Fri, Nov 10, 2006 at 08:27:35AM -0800, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > While we're on the subject, could this be extended to any of the > myriad other libraries that we use? Yes. But I would think it would be highly undesirable to do so. > If we intend to have Shapelib > always be present (a really great idea), it would at least be nice > to have all of the Shapefile-related options turned on too (Berkeley > DB/PCRE/rtree). I would probably be very afraid of starting to include too much. It would be very, very easy to get carried away. Shapelib is a tiny library, and we have explicit permission to include its source in xastir's. It is also very stable. Since we're using a fairly small fraction of shapelib's capabilities, it might not even be necessary to include all the sources (the contrib directory, for example). DB is neither small nor stable, what with its 3MB source tarball. PCRE isn't particularly tiny, either. Statically linking all those libraries would bloat the executable. And if we bundle all this stuff so that xastir can be built with all features enabled by folks who haven't gone through the trouble of installing other packages, then a fair number of casual users will wind up with the most bloated version. > If we could get libtiff/libproj/libgeotiff, AX.25, libcurl, > GDAL/OGR, GPSMan/gpsmanshp support in there too, so much the better. Good lord. Page for Ms. Pandora. Now I'm starting to think that it is a bad idea to do even shapelib. Keeping separate projects separate has value. Bundling the kitchen sink in just so that users don't need to bother with package management systems borders on the absurd. And increases the maintenance headache of xastir. If we need to bundle shapelib for some reason (and what was that again?), then we should stop there. It might be better to stop before there. We already have a small number of required libraries -- X11 and Motif --- should we argue that we need to bundle *those* too?. If it's considered essential to have shapefile support, why not just bump shapelib's status up to that level and leave it at that? -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Tom Russo wrote: > Keep it as a library, use a local installed version if it's there, build our > own if and only if necessary and link against it statically in that case. > If we keep it in a separate directory, it eases the maintenance headache. I'm game for this. It also occurred to me that someday we may wish to use an alternative library for Shapefile support, like perhaps OGR. It'd behoove us to keep Shapelib separate from our code for that reason alone (Aren't you impressed that I found a use for the word "behoove"?). > But if we do it right, there's no need to link our own private copy if there's > already one. And if we do link against our private copy statically, there > is no problem if the user later installs an incompatible shared-library > version. > The static-linked version will be fine until the user updates xastir and > reconfigures, at which point the newly installed shared-library version will > be used instead. Yep. I think that'd be spiffy (It must be "old words" day!). While we're on the subject, could this be extended to any of the myriad other libraries that we use? If we intend to have Shapelib always be present (a really great idea), it would at least be nice to have all of the Shapefile-related options turned on too (Berkeley DB/PCRE/rtree). If we could get libtiff/libproj/libgeotiff, AX.25, libcurl, GDAL/OGR, GPSMan/gpsmanshp support in there too, so much the better. I'll be happy with Shapelib for now though. Shapefile options would be next in line. So... How do we approach this, and who wants to do it? -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Fri, Nov 10, 2006 at 07:09:39AM -0800, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > Developers: What do we think of adding a private copy of Shapelib > to our CVS sources? A bit of a pain in the butt, but probably less of a pain than the alternative. > We could check whether Shapelib was available in "configure". If > not, compile/install our local copy before compiling Xastir, or even > include the stuff directly in the Xastir src directory and just > compile it in directly without depending on installed libraries. The best approach would be to have a subdirectory that is conditionally compiled. We have one such directory now, the rtree directory. Configure tests for whether to build that library, and adjusts the makefiles at that time to either ignore the rtree directory or build the library it contains, then link to that library statically. The library isn't even installed, just built and linked. So all we need to do is probe for the existance of an installed shapelib. If it doesn't exist, build shapelib in the subdirectory, link it in statically. The machinery for such a thing is already in place in our autoconf/automake set-up, we just need to emulate the logic used for rtree, but use the probe for shapelib instead of the command-line flag that rtree uses. > Either of these methods would be a bit of work, plus we'd have to > update the Shapelib sources from time to time. It'd be an ongoing > maintenance headache to keep it sync'ed with the latest Shapelib > sources. Yes. But I believe that shapelib is relatively stable now. It hasn't had a new version in some time. It's been a couple years now since it's had a new version. I think the real new development is all in GDAL/OGR now, and shapelib is something of a relic. > I'm starting to think we should merge the Shapelib files in with > ours and compile it all together as one executable. Those that need > the optional tools for Shapelib could download/install Shapelib > separately. Keep it as a library, use a local installed version if it's there, build our own if and only if necessary and link against it statically in that case. If we keep it in a separate directory, it eases the maintenance headache. > Hmmm, could version differences between our private copy and a > separately-installed copy mess us up? Probably not if we compile it > statically into the executable instead of installing/ linking to a > shared library. But if we do it right, there's no need to link our own private copy if there's already one. And if we do link against our private copy statically, there is no problem if the user later installs an incompatible shared-library version. The static-linked version will be fine until the user updates xastir and reconfigures, at which point the newly installed shared-library version will be used instead. > If we installed our private copy as a shared > library and linked to it then we could get into version differences. Yes. Bad idea unless we don't call it the same thing. > Now: Xastir's "configure" checked for an installed copy first, then > that bit is easily solved: Anyone needing the optional tools would > download Shapelib and install as normal, then Xastir wouldn't > overwrite it with it's own copy but would use it instead. Yes. -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Jason Winningham wrote: > Not sure how close the near-mythical xastir v2 is (: but if xastir > does go to a GIS-aware postgress or something similar, would that do > away with the need for shapelib support? Or would shapelib become a > core vector format and the GIS db be a supplemental package? I'd prefer the latter. > Or are these simply orthogonal issues and I'm making no sense? Would > the GIS db take the place of xastir's internal station/object > database, or store map data, or both? Could be either/or/both. Definitely we'd store station data there. There would be advantages to storing vector data there as well, but I could see also having support for flat files. If we stored vector data there, we could then have separate import scripts for getting various types of vector data into the database, and could get rid of a lot of the various types of code in Xastir itself for reading all of those varied types of maps. It'd make the application simpler plus would speed things up greatly, for instance, anyone tried raw TIGER/Line data with Xastir? ;-) I just looked at the license for Shapelib and it is LGPL. We could either keep it as a completely separate subtree in CVS with its LGPL license, which would make it easy to update the code later, or we could merge it directly into our code via this clause of the license: 3. You may opt to apply the terms of the ordinary GNU General Public License instead of this License to a given copy of the Library. To do this, you must alter all the notices that refer to this License, so that they refer to the ordinary GNU General Public License, version 2, instead of to this License. (If a newer version than version 2 of the ordinary GNU General Public License has appeared, then you can specify that version instead if you wish.) Do not make any other change in these notices. Once this change is made in a given copy, it is irreversible for that copy, so the ordinary GNU General Public License applies to all subsequent copies and derivative works made from that copy. This option is useful when you wish to copy part of the code of the Library into a program that is not a library. -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
Not sure how close the near-mythical xastir v2 is (: but if xastir does go to a GIS-aware postgress or something similar, would that do away with the need for shapelib support? Or would shapelib become a core vector format and the GIS db be a supplemental package? Or are these simply orthogonal issues and I'm making no sense? Would the GIS db take the place of xastir's internal station/object database, or store map data, or both? -Jason kg4wsv ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
Looks like Jason's e-mail was private to me, but I don't think I can get him in trouble for posting his comment back to the list! On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Jason Winningham wrote: > works for me. > > I really like the idea if integrating shapelib support directly into > xastir, but then I wouldn't be doing the work... Well... Gerry sent a note to Frank Warmerdam, the maintainer of many of the map libraries we use. We have the ok to do that! We could have NWS weather alert support compiled in from the get-go on all new Xastir installations if we took advantage of that, plus distribute a base map of the world in Shapefile format. Developers: What do we think of adding a private copy of Shapelib to our CVS sources? We could check whether Shapelib was available in "configure". If not, compile/install our local copy before compiling Xastir, or even include the stuff directly in the Xastir src directory and just compile it in directly without depending on installed libraries. Either of these methods would be a bit of work, plus we'd have to update the Shapelib sources from time to time. It'd be an ongoing maintenance headache to keep it sync'ed with the latest Shapelib sources. I'm starting to think we should merge the Shapelib files in with ours and compile it all together as one executable. Those that need the optional tools for Shapelib could download/install Shapelib separately. Hmmm, could version differences between our private copy and a separately-installed copy mess us up? Probably not if we compile it statically into the executable instead of installing/ linking to a shared library. If we installed our private copy as a shared library and linked to it then we could get into version differences. Now: Xastir's "configure" checked for an installed copy first, then that bit is easily solved: Anyone needing the optional tools would download Shapelib and install as normal, then Xastir wouldn't overwrite it with it's own copy but would use it instead. Ok, perhaps either method would work, compiling it into Xastir statically or using it as a dynamic library as we do now. Thoughts? -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Curt, WE7U wrote: > So I'm sending this to Henk as well to see where the data originally > came from, therefore whether we can include it in Xastir. It looks > like there's no problem as long as the map data it was derived from > has ok permissions. After comparing WORLDHI.MAP and world.pdb, the former is more colorful, has more bits of land in the northern Canada area, and has the U.S. state borders and great lakes described. The latter is missing those extra bits of land, is one color, and has a diagonal line running through Canada. At least in Xastir it shows that. I'm going to reverse my earlier thought: We'd be better off going with WORLDHI.MAP even though it is quite a bit larger. Can someone track down the originator of the Worldhi.map file (perhaps Bob Bruninga) and ask? If we can use it, let's do so. I wouldn't mind adding one world map to the CVS sources as long as it's 250k or less and compresses well. We can always replace it later should we find something we like better. Everyone agree? -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, Steve Friis wrote:
> > On 11/9/06, Steve Friis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Check out the one listed on the old web page called "Worldhi.map". It
> >> loads very fast, and even has some color in the lines. I think it is in
> >> public domain, but I could be wrong. Would certainly provide proof that
> >> the program is working.
> The map I suggested (see above) loads with the stock libraries, is nice
> looking for a first map, is relatively small, loads quick, and is
> generic. That is to say, is not partial to any city, state, county or
> continent, plus was free when I found it.
"Free" doesn't necessarily mean that we can include it with our
sources or binaries. If it is under a public domain or GPL license,
then we can include it without asking. If it's anything else, we
need to track down the original creator of the map, or creators if
it has been worked on by several, and get their permission.
I personally favor the PocketAPRS world map as it is relatively
small but nice-looking and has some good detail. I didn't put the
effort in to track down the originator. I have it in
maps/henk/world.zip, it has these files in it:
> unzip -l world.zip
Archive: world.zip
Length Date TimeName
51600 12-27-01 11:39 world.pdb
202 12-27-01 13:34 Readme.txt
---
51802 2 files
So... It's a fairly small map. PocketAPRS maps were known for their
small sizes. It's a very compact map format. More than likely it
was created from something like the Worldhi.map file originally.
The readme says:
"This file is designed for use with pocketAPRS, the map is
generated by PE1DNN. The map also works on APRS/CE and Xastir.
This map is free of charge, enjoy!
Henk de Groot - PE1DNN - [EMAIL PROTECTED]"
So I'm sending this to Henk as well to see where the data originally
came from, therefore whether we can include it in Xastir. It looks
like there's no problem as long as the map data it was derived from
has ok permissions.
--
Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
"Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
"Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
___
Xastir mailing list
Xastir@xastir.org
http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
James Ewen wrote: On 11/9/06, Steve Friis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Gerry Creager wrote: > I'll look today for a freely distributable world map, probably > shapefile format. Will that satisfy anyone? That much I should be > able to accomplish. > Check out the one listed on the old web page called "Worldhi.map". It loads very fast, and even has some color in the lines. I think it is in public domain, but I could be wrong. Would certainly provide proof that the program is working. Steve/WM5Z This is a recurring theme! The best solution in my never humble opinion is to use a chunky old DosAPRS world map. Who cares about resolution and precision. Stuff an image of the world in front of the user to show that Xastir is actually up and running. No extra libraries needed. The map I suggested (see above) loads with the stock libraries, is nice looking for a first map, is relatively small, loads quick, and is generic. That is to say, is not partial to any city, state, county or continent, plus was free when I found it. We want to keep the map size to a minimum, but still have something on the screen. Everyone wants to add a 'decent' resolution map for their area, but that won't be the same for everyone. A simply continental outline map gives people a starting point. A grey screen with grid lines across it gives zero information about relative distances. Every user will want to customize to their own desires, but we NEED to have something pop up in front of the new user to let them know that Xastir is working! James VE6SRV ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On 11/9/06, Steve Friis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Gerry Creager wrote: > I'll look today for a freely distributable world map, probably > shapefile format. Will that satisfy anyone? That much I should be > able to accomplish. > Check out the one listed on the old web page called "Worldhi.map". It loads very fast, and even has some color in the lines. I think it is in public domain, but I could be wrong. Would certainly provide proof that the program is working. Steve/WM5Z This is a recurring theme! The best solution in my never humble opinion is to use a chunky old DosAPRS world map. Who cares about resolution and precision. Stuff an image of the world in front of the user to show that Xastir is actually up and running. No extra libraries needed. We want to keep the map size to a minimum, but still have something on the screen. Everyone wants to add a 'decent' resolution map for their area, but that won't be the same for everyone. A simply continental outline map gives people a starting point. A grey screen with grid lines across it gives zero information about relative distances. Every user will want to customize to their own desires, but we NEED to have something pop up in front of the new user to let them know that Xastir is working! James VE6SRV ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: Where to get help Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
Yeah, I'll have to concur. I really hate forums. If you forget to go to it then you will miss a bunch of stuff. If it is delivered to you in an e-mail then it is sent to you to be placed right in front of your face. Eric Jason Winningham wrote: > > On Nov 9, 2006, at 4:09 PM, Jeremy Utley wrote: > >> With most web forum software, you can easily set it to notify you of >> responses to your inquiry, and never go back there until someone >> responds to your inquiry. Then, once you have your answer, you never >> *have* to go back again. > > so, no one goes there except to > > a) ask a question > or > b) read the answer to their question > > So, just exactly who will be answering? > > I've been dealing with a forum-based group recently and I find the level > of support far below a typical email list. (Yeah, I know, sample size > of one and all that.) > > -Jason > kg4wsv > > > ___ > Xastir mailing list > Xastir@xastir.org > http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: Where to get help Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Nov 9, 2006, at 4:09 PM, Jeremy Utley wrote: With most web forum software, you can easily set it to notify you of responses to your inquiry, and never go back there until someone responds to your inquiry. Then, once you have your answer, you never *have* to go back again. so, no one goes there except to a) ask a question or b) read the answer to their question So, just exactly who will be answering? I've been dealing with a forum-based group recently and I find the level of support far below a typical email list. (Yeah, I know, sample size of one and all that.) -Jason kg4wsv ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: Where to get help Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On 11/9/06, Tom Russo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 01:12:28PM -0600, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > > On Nov 9, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Curt, WE7U wrote: > > >Either that, or kill the forums and direct people to the > >list instead. > > I second this motion. I vastly prefer email, and I won't do both a > forum and email; too much trouble. [lights torch and grabs rusty farm implements] Kill it! There are some advantages to forum-based support rather than mailing-list based support. With a mailing list, you have to get yourself subscribed, hope your provider's anti-spam measures don't treat the mailing list as spam, post your question, and deal with whatever noise there is on the list until you get your answer (if you get a good answer - not usually a problem on ths list, but I know of plenty other "support" lists where 75% of the requests for help are ignored). Not to mention poorly configured lists that send replies in private rather than the list *grins* With most web forum software, you can easily set it to notify you of responses to your inquiry, and never go back there until someone responds to your inquiry. Then, once you have your answer, you never *have* to go back again. Jeremy ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: Where to get help Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 01:12:28PM -0600, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > > On Nov 9, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Curt, WE7U wrote: > > >Either that, or kill the forums and direct people to the > >list instead. > > I second this motion. I vastly prefer email, and I won't do both a > forum and email; too much trouble. [lights torch and grabs rusty farm implements] Kill it! -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: Where to get help Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Nov 9, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Curt, WE7U wrote: Either that, or kill the forums and direct people to the list instead. I second this motion. I vastly prefer email, and I won't do both a forum and email; too much trouble. -Jason kg4wsv ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: Where to get help Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, Tom Russo wrote: > I know I am not reading those forums regularly (and have no intention of > starting, as I can't stand participating in web-based forums). It doesn't > look like very many others from here are, either, judging from the number of > responses to questions in the forum. > > I'd like to suggest that at a minimum, a sticky topic should be there warning > forum users that the best way to get support is here, not there. I'm in the same boat. E-mail + procmail/formail are my friends and keep me somewhat organized. I work well with e-mail coming in but am not going to be regularly reading web forums. I much prefer e-mail lists to web-based anything. Except Wiki's... Perhaps some of the experienced users can congregate there to keep tabs on things, notifying the list when something hard-to-answer comes up? Either that, or kill the forums and direct people to the list instead. -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Where to get help Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 06:39:32AM -0800, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > > And new users, the ones that come across it, probably don't know > enough about it to complain or even where to complain. Speaking of which, I know this has been raised before, but the new "forums" on the Xastir home page are starting to gather postings by new users who are under the impression that they are going to get help there in a timely fashion. There are currently 9 threads in the "User Support" forum. I know I am not reading those forums regularly (and have no intention of starting, as I can't stand participating in web-based forums). It doesn't look like very many others from here are, either, judging from the number of responses to questions in the forum. I'd like to suggest that at a minimum, a sticky topic should be there warning forum users that the best way to get support is here, not there. -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, Curt, WE7U wrote: > I'll try to find time to look into the default-size-at-startup > problem. That's the first thing to solve here. Fixed in CVS. Turns out the stuff in xa_config.c can be changed without messing up the minimum window sizes. We need to specify a minimum size in main.c:create_appshell() in order to avoid segfaults in the case the user resizes the window too small. In my testing so far it all works now. -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
Gerry Creager wrote: I'll look today for a freely distributable world map, probably shapefile format. Will that satisfy anyone? That much I should be able to accomplish. gerry Dan Brown wrote: Check out the one listed on the old web page called "Worldhi.map". It loads very fast, and even has some color in the lines. I think it is in public domain, but I could be wrong. Would certainly provide proof that the program is working. Steve/WM5Z ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, Dan Brown wrote: > I'll take this moment to put forward the idea that I think putting > something minimal up, besides the grey background, even if it isn't > anything but a splash screen with an Xastir logo and an arrow pointing > generally towards the File->Configure menu, would be good. I think some > sort of world map might be better, but I know there are valid questions > about where to get something freely available and redistributable. I just > think that having something there, out of the box, would at least say > "Xastir is working!" to new users. Default maps have been discussed several times before. Luckily now _you_ can do something about it. ;-) I'll try to find time to look into the default-size-at-startup problem. That's the first thing to solve here. Let's discuss the default maps, what type of map to use, how to get the proper library support compiled in, what Xastir distributions need to have the default map, etc. Any suggestions? -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Tom Russo wrote: > Hmmm. The get_long function has a minimum, maximum, and default value. > At the moment, the default value is set to the minimum for both > SCREEN_HEIGHT and SCREEN_WIDTH, and that's the value that's used at startup. > > So if I understand what you're saying there, all that's necessary is to > change the defaults (fourth parameter) back to 640 and 480 and leave the > minimum where it is. According to the commit logs you changed both at the > same time, but changing only the minimum might have been sufficient to fix the > segfaults you were addressing. As I recall the more obvious things didn't work for me, experimentation ensued, and the "larned" stuff became the final code. The usual. Been long enough now that I can't remember all the specifics. Of course I can say that about things that happened yesterday as well. -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, Gerry Creager wrote: > I'll look today for a freely distributable world map, probably shapefile > format. Will that satisfy anyone? That much I should be able to > accomplish. James Jefferson had one on his site that was around 2MB I think. He added a missing continent to it a while back (Antarctica) but the original data I think came from somewhere else. That one might work fine, but then there are two (somewhat minor) problems to consider: *) Xastir would need to be always compiled with Shapelib support in order to use it. *) The "development" and "stable" releases would need to add this so that people always had the base map, or else we could add it as a separate download on the File Download section of SourceForge to keep the source downloads small, and just put the map into any compiled binary distributions. Because of the Shapelib problem, I'd prefer to have something in Dos/Win/PocketAPRS format, so that any lack of libraries won't affect it. Then again, we can do so much more with Shapefiles and that's one of my favorite formats! I've thought before of including Shapelib sources with Xastir itself so that it's always available. I believe we've received permission from Frank Warmerdam to include any pieces of it we want. I think that goes for the other libraries he's in charge of: We tend to use a lot of libraries from his sites. -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
I'll look today for a freely distributable world map, probably shapefile format. Will that satisfy anyone? That much I should be able to accomplish. gerry Dan Brown wrote: On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Curt Mills wrote: On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Tom Russo wrote: Maybe there was a particular reason for using such tiny default values? Curt? If there isn't a real reason to make the default value so small, perhaps we should go back to the 640x480 that was the default before then? Yes. Specific reasons for it, and I'm the responsible party. Aren't CVS logs great? It went like this: Tried resizing the window vertically as small as it would go. Xastir segfaulted. Figured out I could set the minimum window sizes to have at least one pixel in the drawing area, which would keep it from segfaulting. The end result is what you see now. A side effect is that the first time it starts up small, but I didn't see that at the time. We could perhaps fix that first-time startup size if we have to set sizes in xa_config.c 'cuz they're missing in the config file. I'll take this moment to put forward the idea that I think putting something minimal up, besides the grey background, even if it isn't anything but a splash screen with an Xastir logo and an arrow pointing generally towards the File->Configure menu, would be good. I think some sort of world map might be better, but I know there are valid questions about where to get something freely available and redistributable. I just think that having something there, out of the box, would at least say "Xastir is working!" to new users. -- Dan Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir -- Gerry Creager -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Texas Mesonet -- AATLT, Texas A&M University Cell: 979.229.5301 Office: 979.458.4020 FAX 979.862.3983 MAIL: AATLT, 3139 TAMU Physical: 1700 Research Parkway, Suite 160, College Station, TX 77843-3139 ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, Steve Friis wrote: > Curt Mills wrote: > > > > As anything else here, if it doesn't stay at the top of the list, it > > gets buried. Squeaky wheel and all that. > > > Thing is, once it was resized, it didn't matter any more. And new users, the ones that come across it, probably don't know enough about it to complain or even where to complain. If only the rest of the bugs revealed themselves in that manner! hi hi -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Gerry Creager wrote: > Clock drift has been an issue w/ VMWare since v1.0. Using a drift > correction file in ntpd.conf helps, but the nature of the clock > algorithm they use makes ntp updates problemmatical. You know, I recall that problem. I know NTP expects the system clock to be somewhat reasonable, as in a predictable drift over time, and within a certain range. This Dell desktop I have here doesn't fit the parameters so the drift coefficient according to NTP is always changing, and I get sudden jumps in time back to reality. The clock under VMWare (way back when) was slow and not very predictable. You _could_ hook a GPS to a serial port and use Xastir's setting to force the system clock to the GPS time, but that's kind'a harsh on the system as it's a sudden change in time. It's not a gentle adjustment-over-time like NTP tries to do. -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
Curt Mills wrote: On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Steve Friis wrote: It has been mentioned before, even by yours truly. Guess if it doesn't brake things,it is no big deal. As anything else here, if it doesn't stay at the top of the list, it gets buried. Squeaky wheel and all that. Thing is, once it was resized, it didn't matter any more. Steve/WM5Z ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Curt Mills wrote: > On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Tom Russo wrote: > > > Maybe there was a particular reason for using such tiny default values? > > Curt? > > If there isn't a real reason to make the default value so small, perhaps we > > should go back to the 640x480 that was the default before then? > > Yes. Specific reasons for it, and I'm the responsible party. > Aren't CVS logs great? > > It went like this: Tried resizing the window vertically as small as > it would go. Xastir segfaulted. Figured out I could set the > minimum window sizes to have at least one pixel in the drawing area, > which would keep it from segfaulting. The end result is what you > see now. A side effect is that the first time it starts up small, > but I didn't see that at the time. We could perhaps fix that > first-time startup size if we have to set sizes in xa_config.c 'cuz > they're missing in the config file. I'll take this moment to put forward the idea that I think putting something minimal up, besides the grey background, even if it isn't anything but a splash screen with an Xastir logo and an arrow pointing generally towards the File->Configure menu, would be good. I think some sort of world map might be better, but I know there are valid questions about where to get something freely available and redistributable. I just think that having something there, out of the box, would at least say "Xastir is working!" to new users. -- Dan Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 08:19:12PM -0800, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Tom Russo wrote: > > > Maybe there was a particular reason for using such tiny default values? > > Curt? > > If there isn't a real reason to make the default value so small, perhaps we > > should go back to the 640x480 that was the default before then? > > Yes. Specific reasons for it, and I'm the responsible party. > Aren't CVS logs great? > > It went like this: Tried resizing the window vertically as small as > it would go. Xastir segfaulted. Figured out I could set the > minimum window sizes to have at least one pixel in the drawing area, > which would keep it from segfaulting. The end result is what you > see now. A side effect is that the first time it starts up small, > but I didn't see that at the time. We could perhaps fix that > first-time startup size if we have to set sizes in xa_config.c 'cuz > they're missing in the config file. Hmmm. The get_long function has a minimum, maximum, and default value. At the moment, the default value is set to the minimum for both SCREEN_HEIGHT and SCREEN_WIDTH, and that's the value that's used at startup. So if I understand what you're saying there, all that's necessary is to change the defaults (fourth parameter) back to 640 and 480 and leave the minimum where it is. According to the commit logs you changed both at the same time, but changing only the minimum might have been sufficient to fix the segfaults you were addressing. -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
Clock drift has been an issue w/ VMWare since v1.0. Using a drift correction file in ntpd.conf helps, but the nature of the clock algorithm they use makes ntp updates problemmatical. gerry Dan Brown wrote: On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Amateur Radio WB8NUT wrote: Eric, You are correct. However, I was trying to get people up on VMware Player which is a tad bit easier than VMware Server which I have also used. Another limiting factor with VMware Server, is that IF you have multiple virtual appliances running, you better have some decent memory like 1GB and above. VMware really doesn't like trying to run more guest memory than you have physical memory in your host machine. Tuning the amount of memory to "just enough what you need" inside the guest helps, especially if you have multiple guests (parasites?) on the same host. The only issue I've seen -- and I need to upgrade my software and such, is that the clock inside the guest os can drift from reality. AND, worse, that attempting to use ntpd can make things drift even more! A drifting clock makes make (which is used in compiling Xastir) behave badly. Xastir itself too. This may be fixed in later versions of VMware, I was using the 4.5.2 "Workstation" version at the time I saw these issues. 73, N8YSZ. -- Dan Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir -- Gerry Creager -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Texas Mesonet -- AATLT, Texas A&M University Cell: 979.229.5301 Office: 979.458.4020 FAX 979.862.3983 MAIL: AATLT, 3139 TAMU Physical: 1700 Research Parkway, Suite 160, College Station, TX 77843-3139 ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Tom Russo wrote: > Maybe there was a particular reason for using such tiny default values? Curt? > If there isn't a real reason to make the default value so small, perhaps we > should go back to the 640x480 that was the default before then? Yes. Specific reasons for it, and I'm the responsible party. Aren't CVS logs great? It went like this: Tried resizing the window vertically as small as it would go. Xastir segfaulted. Figured out I could set the minimum window sizes to have at least one pixel in the drawing area, which would keep it from segfaulting. The end result is what you see now. A side effect is that the first time it starts up small, but I didn't see that at the time. We could perhaps fix that first-time startup size if we have to set sizes in xa_config.c 'cuz they're missing in the config file. -- Curt, WE7U. archer at eskimo dot com http://www.eskimo.com/~archer Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math. - unknown Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates. - WE7U. The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Steve Friis wrote: > It has been mentioned before, even by yours truly. Guess if it doesn't brake > things,it is no big deal. As anything else here, if it doesn't stay at the top of the list, it gets buried. Squeaky wheel and all that. -- Curt, WE7U. archer at eskimo dot com http://www.eskimo.com/~archer Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math. - unknown Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates. - WE7U. The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
Tom Russo wrote: On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 06:20:09PM -0800, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: I can confirm what Duffy says - I did a CVS install yesterday on FC6, and it appeared as about 1"x1 1/2" window on my desktop initially (screen res set at 1600x1200 on a 19" monitor). But, as he says, after you resize and close it, it will maintain that size afterward. Sure enough. That's very odd, the default values of screen height and width are 1 and 61. Bizarre choices, I don't ever remember seeing xastir start up with those dimensions except during the very brief period where the -geometry option was added and broken. But clearly in xa_config.c these are the default values used if SCREEN_HEIGHT and SCREEN_WIDTH are not found in the config file (as they would not be on the very first run). >From what I can see in CVS, this change happened in revision 1.17 of xa_config.c, where the defaults changed from 640x480 to 61x1. That was in 2002! I'm amazed there haven't been more comments about that. It has been mentioned before, even by yours truly. Guess if it doesn't brake things,it is no big deal. Steve/WM5Z ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 07:36:49PM -0700, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > > >From what I can see in CVS, this change happened in revision 1.17 of > xa_config.c, where the defaults changed from 640x480 to 61x1. That was in > 2002! I'm amazed there haven't been more comments about that. No, that's a complete misreading of the cvs log. Sorry. It happened in revision 1.146, on 4 Oct 2005, in version 1.6.1. Maybe there was a particular reason for using such tiny default values? Curt? If there isn't a real reason to make the default value so small, perhaps we should go back to the 640x480 that was the default before then? -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 06:20:09PM -0800, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > I can confirm what Duffy says - I did a CVS install yesterday on FC6, > and it appeared as about 1"x1 1/2" window on my desktop initially > (screen res set at 1600x1200 on a 19" monitor). But, as he says, > after you resize and close it, it will maintain that size afterward. Sure enough. That's very odd, the default values of screen height and width are 1 and 61. Bizarre choices, I don't ever remember seeing xastir start up with those dimensions except during the very brief period where the -geometry option was added and broken. But clearly in xa_config.c these are the default values used if SCREEN_HEIGHT and SCREEN_WIDTH are not found in the config file (as they would not be on the very first run). >From what I can see in CVS, this change happened in revision 1.17 of xa_config.c, where the defaults changed from 640x480 to 61x1. That was in 2002! I'm amazed there haven't been more comments about that. > On 11/8/06, Amateur Radio WB8NUT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Tom and all, > > > >It's 1.7.1 - but I was also running 1.8.x on Ubuntu/Kubuntu 6.10 native > >installs and it does the same thing - starts for the first time as a > >little box. It's no big deal, after you resize it, it restarts at a > >normal size from there on out. But if you are not expecting it, it's > >could be easy for a first-timer to miss - hence the note. > > > >Duffy > > > >Tom Russo wrote: > >> On Tue, Nov 07, 2006 at 10:31:09PM -0500, we recorded a bogon-computron > >collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > >> > >>> I tried this method and it works very well. > >>> > >>> Go to www.vmware.com and download the free VMWare Player. Install on > >>> your windows machine. > >>> > >>> Also on the VMWare site, download a virtual machine for Mepis Linux, > >>> Ubuntu Linux, or Kubuntu. > >>> > >>> > >> [...] > >> > >> I just read through your write-up about this on the wiki. You note that > >> the first time you start xastir, it starts up with a tiny window. > >> > >> This was a bug in a relatively old version of xastir --- what version of > >> xastir are you getting by doing the apt-get? It should not happen with > >any > >> of the 1.8.x versions, and probably only happened in one or two of the > >1.7.x > >> versions. > >> > >> > > > > > >-- > >"One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run > >away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet > >it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. > >Never run away from anything. Never!" -- Winston Churchill > > > > > > > >___ > >Xastir mailing list > >Xastir@xastir.org > >http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir > > > ___ > Xastir mailing list > Xastir@xastir.org > http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
I can confirm what Duffy says - I did a CVS install yesterday on FC6, and it appeared as about 1"x1 1/2" window on my desktop initially (screen res set at 1600x1200 on a 19" monitor). But, as he says, after you resize and close it, it will maintain that size afterward. Jeremy, NW7JU On 11/8/06, Amateur Radio WB8NUT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Tom and all, It's 1.7.1 - but I was also running 1.8.x on Ubuntu/Kubuntu 6.10 native installs and it does the same thing - starts for the first time as a little box. It's no big deal, after you resize it, it restarts at a normal size from there on out. But if you are not expecting it, it's could be easy for a first-timer to miss - hence the note. Duffy Tom Russo wrote: > On Tue, Nov 07, 2006 at 10:31:09PM -0500, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > >> I tried this method and it works very well. >> >> Go to www.vmware.com and download the free VMWare Player. Install on >> your windows machine. >> >> Also on the VMWare site, download a virtual machine for Mepis Linux, >> Ubuntu Linux, or Kubuntu. >> >> > [...] > > I just read through your write-up about this on the wiki. You note that > the first time you start xastir, it starts up with a tiny window. > > This was a bug in a relatively old version of xastir --- what version of > xastir are you getting by doing the apt-get? It should not happen with any > of the 1.8.x versions, and probably only happened in one or two of the 1.7.x > versions. > > -- "One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!" -- Winston Churchill ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
Tom and all, It's 1.7.1 - but I was also running 1.8.x on Ubuntu/Kubuntu 6.10 native installs and it does the same thing - starts for the first time as a little box. It's no big deal, after you resize it, it restarts at a normal size from there on out. But if you are not expecting it, it's could be easy for a first-timer to miss - hence the note. Duffy Tom Russo wrote: On Tue, Nov 07, 2006 at 10:31:09PM -0500, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: I tried this method and it works very well. Go to www.vmware.com and download the free VMWare Player. Install on your windows machine. Also on the VMWare site, download a virtual machine for Mepis Linux, Ubuntu Linux, or Kubuntu. [...] I just read through your write-up about this on the wiki. You note that the first time you start xastir, it starts up with a tiny window. This was a bug in a relatively old version of xastir --- what version of xastir are you getting by doing the apt-get? It should not happen with any of the 1.8.x versions, and probably only happened in one or two of the 1.7.x versions. -- "One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!" -- Winston Churchill ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Tue, Nov 07, 2006 at 10:31:09PM -0500, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing: > I tried this method and it works very well. > > Go to www.vmware.com and download the free VMWare Player. Install on > your windows machine. > > Also on the VMWare site, download a virtual machine for Mepis Linux, > Ubuntu Linux, or Kubuntu. > [...] I just read through your write-up about this on the wiki. You note that the first time you start xastir, it starts up with a tiny window. This was a bug in a relatively old version of xastir --- what version of xastir are you getting by doing the apt-get? It should not happen with any of the 1.8.x versions, and probably only happened in one or two of the 1.7.x versions. -- Tom RussoKM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" --- The Tick ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
Duffy, Excellent point. I wonder if we could make some different Linux images with Xastir already installed on the image and then post the image(s) on the Xastir website for folks to download. It would be a near ready-made Windows install. Eric Amateur Radio WB8NUT wrote: > Eric, > > You are correct. However, I was trying to get people up on VMware Player > which is a tad bit easier than VMware Server which I have also used. > Another limiting factor with VMware Server, is that IF you have multiple > virtual appliances running, you better have some decent memory like 1GB > and above. > > I just suggest for the Linux/VMware newbees, that they start with VMware > Player first. After getting more experience and memory, then move up to > VMware Server. It's all great and free. > > Duffy > www.wb8nut.com > > Eric Christensen wrote: >> You can actually get the VMWare Server for free as well. That allows >> you to make your own images to use so you can make your own Linux >> install with Xastir already installed and make that image downloadable >> for others. >> >> Eric >> >> > > ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Amateur Radio WB8NUT wrote: > Eric, > > You are correct. However, I was trying to get people up on VMware Player > which is a tad bit easier than VMware Server which I have also used. > Another limiting factor with VMware Server, is that IF you have multiple > virtual appliances running, you better have some decent memory like 1GB > and above. VMware really doesn't like trying to run more guest memory than you have physical memory in your host machine. Tuning the amount of memory to "just enough what you need" inside the guest helps, especially if you have multiple guests (parasites?) on the same host. The only issue I've seen -- and I need to upgrade my software and such, is that the clock inside the guest os can drift from reality. AND, worse, that attempting to use ntpd can make things drift even more! A drifting clock makes make (which is used in compiling Xastir) behave badly. Xastir itself too. This may be fixed in later versions of VMware, I was using the 4.5.2 "Workstation" version at the time I saw these issues. 73, N8YSZ. -- Dan Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
Eric, You are correct. However, I was trying to get people up on VMware Player which is a tad bit easier than VMware Server which I have also used. Another limiting factor with VMware Server, is that IF you have multiple virtual appliances running, you better have some decent memory like 1GB and above. I just suggest for the Linux/VMware newbees, that they start with VMware Player first. After getting more experience and memory, then move up to VMware Server. It's all great and free. Duffy www.wb8nut.com Eric Christensen wrote: You can actually get the VMWare Server for free as well. That allows you to make your own images to use so you can make your own Linux install with Xastir already installed and make that image downloadable for others. Eric -- "One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!" -- Winston Churchill ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
Vmware Server is great, I use it all the time. I'm constantly playing with things and having a sandbox to do it in without borking my own install makes it really nice. It's very easy to install and maintain as well Stephen On 11/8/06, Eric Christensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You can actually get the VMWare Server for free as well. That allows you to make your own images to use so you can make your own Linux install with Xastir already installed and make that image downloadable for others. Eric Curt, WE7U wrote: > On Tue, 7 Nov 2006, Amateur Radio WB8NUT wrote: > >> Go to www.vmware.com and download the free VMWare Player. Install on >> your windows machine. >> >> Also on the VMWare site, download a virtual machine for Mepis Linux, >> Ubuntu Linux, or Kubuntu. >> >> Once it is downloaded, start the virtual machine in the VMWare player. >> Now you have Linux running as a virtual machine on your windows machine >> - at the same time. >> >> While running Mepis, Ubuntu or Kubuntu, using the Package Manager, >> download Xastir - it will install in the virtual machine. > > This sounds like a great option for people that don't want to mess > with Cygwin. I used to run a licensed copy of VMWare 1.x way back > when, and was always quite happy with the software. Now that one > can download the VMWare Player for free, VMWare virtual machines are > an even more attractive option. > > How about documenting the above on the Xastir Wiki? A step-by-step > for those that are install-challenged. > > -- > Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer > "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown > "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U > "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" > ___ > Xastir mailing list > Xastir@xastir.org > http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
You can actually get the VMWare Server for free as well. That allows you to make your own images to use so you can make your own Linux install with Xastir already installed and make that image downloadable for others. Eric Curt, WE7U wrote: > On Tue, 7 Nov 2006, Amateur Radio WB8NUT wrote: > >> Go to www.vmware.com and download the free VMWare Player. Install on >> your windows machine. >> >> Also on the VMWare site, download a virtual machine for Mepis Linux, >> Ubuntu Linux, or Kubuntu. >> >> Once it is downloaded, start the virtual machine in the VMWare player. >> Now you have Linux running as a virtual machine on your windows machine >> - at the same time. >> >> While running Mepis, Ubuntu or Kubuntu, using the Package Manager, >> download Xastir - it will install in the virtual machine. > > This sounds like a great option for people that don't want to mess > with Cygwin. I used to run a licensed copy of VMWare 1.x way back > when, and was always quite happy with the software. Now that one > can download the VMWare Player for free, VMWare virtual machines are > an even more attractive option. > > How about documenting the above on the Xastir Wiki? A step-by-step > for those that are install-challenged. > > -- > Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer > "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown > "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U > "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" > ___ > Xastir mailing list > Xastir@xastir.org > http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Amateur Radio WB8NUT wrote: > With Festival, I started it with the "festival" command in a terminal > window. Then I start Xastir and it still says it cannot find something > in Festival. festival --server & Before starting Xastir. > With Terraserver, I don't have a clue. It looks like you're starting Xastir from an xterm, so you're seeing any warning/error messages that come out. That's good. It's likely that either your ImageMagick doesn't have the correct support for the image type you're downloading, or that your libcurl or wget installation isn't working. Xastir will prefer libcurl over wget if you have both installed. If you only have wget installed, you can try a manual wget line to see if it's working. I ran into a non-working wget once this way and had to upgrade it. Libcurl and wget are only used to fetch the remote file via a supplied URL. You can check whether Xastir is able to snag the remote file by going to your ~/.xastir/tmp/ directory and looking for things like "map.png", "map.gif", etc. See if the image you are expecting is sitting there. If so, your libcurl or wget is working fine for you and you can go on to possible ImageMagick problems. ImageMagick: If you ever see something about "decode delegate", it means that ImageMagick can't find the right module in order to decode that particular image format. Sometimes it'll emit no error messages but still not be able to handle particular types. You can try running "display ~/.xastir/tmp/map.png" for instance to see if the installed ImageMagick tools can decode PNG files. There are SO many problems and fixes for ImageMagick that we've come across over the years, not to mention changes in the programmer's API (some of which were not documented and/or the version number wasn't changed at the time). It may require more info from you before people can suggest other problem areas to check out or fixes. -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
I will try and do that if I can get some time. I have it running now that way and set it up this morning. The longest time involved was just downloading the torrent for Ubuntu/Kunbutu. I have both now. I downloaded them overnight and set it up this morning after the download finished. Once the Ubuntu/Kubuntu is downloaded the set-up is easy. I already had AGWPE running on Windows with another APRS client. I really works well, it's all free, and because it is a virtual machine, it is completely isolated from Windows so you don't have the issues of Cygwin possibly hosing your windows system. Not to mention, the install is much easier. Curt, I do have some issues remaining. They occur with my other installation of Ubuntu & Kubuntu on another stand-along Linux machine. First, Xastir can't seem to communicate with Festival. Second, I cannot get the terraserver maps to work. Any suggestions on what I need to look for in terms of libraries or something else that may be missing? With Festival, I started it with the "festival" command in a terminal window. Then I start Xastir and it still says it cannot find something in Festival. With Terraserver, I don't have a clue. Duffy www.wb8nut.com Curt, WE7U wrote: On Tue, 7 Nov 2006, Amateur Radio WB8NUT wrote: Go to www.vmware.com and download the free VMWare Player. Install on your windows machine. Also on the VMWare site, download a virtual machine for Mepis Linux, Ubuntu Linux, or Kubuntu. Once it is downloaded, start the virtual machine in the VMWare player. Now you have Linux running as a virtual machine on your windows machine - at the same time. While running Mepis, Ubuntu or Kubuntu, using the Package Manager, download Xastir - it will install in the virtual machine. This sounds like a great option for people that don't want to mess with Cygwin. I used to run a licensed copy of VMWare 1.x way back when, and was always quite happy with the software. Now that one can download the VMWare Player for free, VMWare virtual machines are an even more attractive option. How about documenting the above on the Xastir Wiki? A step-by-step for those that are install-challenged. -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" -- "One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!" -- Winston Churchill ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
On Tue, 7 Nov 2006, Amateur Radio WB8NUT wrote: > Go to www.vmware.com and download the free VMWare Player. Install on > your windows machine. > > Also on the VMWare site, download a virtual machine for Mepis Linux, > Ubuntu Linux, or Kubuntu. > > Once it is downloaded, start the virtual machine in the VMWare player. > Now you have Linux running as a virtual machine on your windows machine > - at the same time. > > While running Mepis, Ubuntu or Kubuntu, using the Package Manager, > download Xastir - it will install in the virtual machine. This sounds like a great option for people that don't want to mess with Cygwin. I used to run a licensed copy of VMWare 1.x way back when, and was always quite happy with the software. Now that one can download the VMWare Player for free, VMWare virtual machines are an even more attractive option. How about documenting the above on the Xastir Wiki? A step-by-step for those that are install-challenged. -- Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer "Lotto:A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown "Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U "The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!" ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
[Xastir] Better and/or Easier Way to Get Xastir on Windows
I tried this method and it works very well. Go to www.vmware.com and download the free VMWare Player. Install on your windows machine. Also on the VMWare site, download a virtual machine for Mepis Linux, Ubuntu Linux, or Kubuntu. Once it is downloaded, start the virtual machine in the VMWare player. Now you have Linux running as a virtual machine on your windows machine - at the same time. While running Mepis, Ubuntu or Kubuntu, using the Package Manager, download Xastir - it will install in the virtual machine. Set it up to use AGWPE (yeah, download and install this first) on your windows machine. Use the IP address of the windows machine in order for Xastir to find AGWPE running on the windows O/S. Now you can have Windows and Linux running at the same time, on the same PC. Since Linux is a virtual machine, it will not interfere with Windows. You can have the best of both worlds, on one PC, at the same time. Regards, Duffy www.wb8nut.com ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
