subject:"\[Xastir\] Feature idea for Xastir"

Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread Brad Douglas

On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 14:59 -0500, Gerry Creager wrote:
> Brad Douglas wrote:
> > On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 15:32 -0400, William McKeehan wrote:
> >> I don't think you're hearing exactly what I'm saying.
> > 
> > Obviously, I'm not. ;-)
> > 
> >> I would not expect the users to "install and run a web server". If you're
> >> using Xastir, you have the option now of starting a "server"; I'm talking
> >> about the same thing, only having it speak a standard protocol, http.
> > 
> > How can you execute XML-RPC without a server to interpret it?
> 
> The process and protocols have long been established, while SOAP/WSDL do 
> things in a poorly reproduced manner until forced to conform.

I'm an idiot.

I implemented a secure httpd-less SOAP server several years ago and
completely forgot about it.  The only alternative for Linux at the time
was libsoup.  I can't begin to count how many bugs we discovered that
were never resolved, so we forked it internally.

If there are better (read: usable) alternatives today, I'd be in favor
of a RESTful approach to client/server interaction.  It would certainly
give Xastir a good entry point for querying data from remote mapservers.

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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread Gerry Creager


Brad Douglas wrote:

On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 15:32 -0400, William McKeehan wrote:

I don't think you're hearing exactly what I'm saying.


Obviously, I'm not. ;-)


I would not expect the users to "install and run a web server". If you're
using Xastir, you have the option now of starting a "server"; I'm talking
about the same thing, only having it speak a standard protocol, http.


How can you execute XML-RPC without a server to interpret it?


The process and protocols have long been established, while SOAP/WSDL do 
things in a poorly reproduced manner until forced to conform.


gerry
--
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Re: Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread William McKeehan

Xastir would be the server and would only interpret/respond to a limited set
of XML-RPC calls.
-- 
William McKeehan
KI4HDU
http://mckeehan.homeip.net

On Tue, October 9, 2007 3:48 pm, Brad Douglas wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 15:32 -0400, William McKeehan wrote:
>> I don't think you're hearing exactly what I'm saying.
>
> Obviously, I'm not. ;-)
>
>> I would not expect the users to "install and run a web server". If you're
>> using Xastir, you have the option now of starting a "server"; I'm talking
>> about the same thing, only having it speak a standard protocol, http.
>
> How can you execute XML-RPC without a server to interpret it?
>
> --
> 73, de Brad KB8UYR/6 
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Re: Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread Brad Douglas

On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 15:32 -0400, William McKeehan wrote:
> I don't think you're hearing exactly what I'm saying.

Obviously, I'm not. ;-)

> I would not expect the users to "install and run a web server". If you're
> using Xastir, you have the option now of starting a "server"; I'm talking
> about the same thing, only having it speak a standard protocol, http.

How can you execute XML-RPC without a server to interpret it?


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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread Brad Douglas

On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 14:18 -0500, Gerry Creager wrote:
> Brad Douglas wrote:
> > On Thu, 2007-10-04 at 19:18 -0500, Jason Winningham wrote:
> >> On Oct 4, 2007, at 7:03 PM, Tate Belden wrote:
> >>
> >>> Is that even possible? To standardize on a generic 'SQL' so a  
> >>> specific set of features offered by any one SQL server don't  
> >>> dictate that server and only that server can be used?
> >> I seem to recall that postgres has some specific GIS-type extensions  
> >> (PostGIS?) that would be desirable for an xastir implementation.
> > 
> > Yes, PostGIS has spatial extensions, but I believe requiring the user
> > have a full-blown database is excessive.  I use it myself, but it
> > shouldn't be forced onto anyone.
> > 
> > SQLite should suffice in parsing DBase files of reasonable size.
> 
> And with SQLite, you lose the capability of letting the database do the 
> heavy lifting for geospatial queries.  A PostGIS implementation is not 
> too hard, and a default schema is straightforward.

Make larger databases optional, not a requirement.


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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread Gerry Creager


Brad Douglas wrote:

On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 14:03 -0500, Gerry Creager wrote:

Brad Douglas wrote:

On Thu, 2007-10-04 at 14:27 -0400, William McKeehan wrote:

Well, the last time we discussed this, I think this is where the discussion
ended (after we managed to get a piglatin translation added to the
repository).

I've been playing and thinking about this a fair amount. What about using
HTML/JavaScript/XML ala Ajax? This would require Xastir having an "http" style
server that would serve up pages and would respond to certain queries with XML
code. For example if Xastir's server were listening on port 8001,
http://localhost:8001/getStationInformation?callsignssid=KI4HDU-2 would
respond with something like

KI4HDU-2
75
10/04/2007 14:05:08

10/04 14:05 : .open2300v1.10
10/04 14:00 :

.
.
.


Are you suggesting that everyone have a working http server on their
local machine?  That is quite an excessive (and generally insecure)
method of accomplishing the given goal, locally.
I don't seem to have too much in the way of security problems with web 
servers on darned near everything we stand up, either apache or tomcat. 
  We also run some stand-alone systems.  I do tend to look for 
excessive, unsuccessful login attempts and automatically block them, and 
my iptables rules are pretty tight, but standing up a basic web server 
and securing it isn't a big deal.  Or, am I demonstrating, again, how 
warped I've become?


I prefer to not require that users be as security minded as we are.
It's a problem waiting to happen, not to mention the fact that users
will be required to install and properly setup a web server and the
necessary extensions (mapserver/FDO?) in the first place.

Even I have trouble getting FDO to install properly (damn you,
Autodesk! ;-).


I gave up on AutoDesk.  I run the "normal" Mapserver code.  The compile 
and dependencies are tricky but we could standardize on a release and 
config and roll out a new one periodically.  Or not.



[snip]


Does this sound like something that would be useful? Personally, I think this
would let people develop their own APRS "interface" using Xastir to do the
heavy lifting - and I think that if done correctly, this would eventually let
you run Xastir in a daemon mode and only use this interface if you wanted to.

IMO, wxPython is the way to go for GUI development.
IMNSHO, either will do.  I write more javascript these days than python, 
as someone else has become the python guru around here.


Again, similar to Java, JS is write once; test everywhere; rewrite;
test; rewrite; test...  Not all JS behaves equally in all browsers. :-(


Used to think that, then I started testing for IE and just giving them 
an error page (Your browser doesn't support real web interaction. 
Please upgrade to Opera or Firefox.) and my life got better.  Carefully 
crafted JS is usable.  I suspect carefully crafted Python is, too. 
Given a choice I'd still write ALL my code in Fortran...



Python is surprisingly easy to learn and does not suffer to licensing
and flame wars others are subjected to.  I've made my case so I'll shut
up, now.  YMMV.


I work in Fortran for most of my coding these days.  Yes, Fortran. 
That's what weather models are generally written in.  I wrote my 
geodetic processing code, and modified someone else's, in Fortran, too. 
 I suspect that, when I really have to, I'll go learn Python.  I know 
there's not a good graphics development object in f90 or f95 I can use.  :-(


gerry
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Re: Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread William McKeehan

I don't think you're hearing exactly what I'm saying.

I would not expect the users to "install and run a web server". If you're
using Xastir, you have the option now of starting a "server"; I'm talking
about the same thing, only having it speak a standard protocol, http.

-- 
William McKeehan
KI4HDU
http://mckeehan.homeip.net

On Tue, October 9, 2007 3:16 pm, Brad Douglas wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 15:02 -0400, William McKeehan wrote:
>> On Tue, October 9, 2007 2:46 pm, Brad Douglas wrote:
>> > Are you suggesting that everyone have a working http server on their
>> > local machine?  That is quite an excessive (and generally insecure)
>> > method of accomplishing the given goal, locally.
>>
>> Well, I'm thinking about a limited http server as part of Xastir, not
>> necessarily on port 80 (the default http port). It would be similar to the
>> current Xastir server port. I think we could find code for a simple http
>> engine to incorporate into the Xastir code that is neither excessive nor
>> insecure.
>
> If that happens, I will stop using Xastir.  It is unreasonable to
> require users to install and run a web server for a single application.
> Web GUIs are highly limited in functionality.
>
>> > IMO, wxPython is the way to go for GUI development.
>>
>> My suggested approach would let people develop a GUI in multiple
>> environments
>> and provide a standard "API" to facilitate this development.
>
> This is not practical, IMO.
>
>
> --
> 73, de Brad KB8UYR/6 
>
>
>

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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread Brad Douglas

Within this past year.  I have friends that work at deCarta.

On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 14:19 -0500, Gerry Creager wrote:
> Interesting.  Happened within the last 2 weeks?
> 
> 
> Brad Douglas wrote:
> > On Fri, 2007-10-05 at 22:53 -0500, Gerry Creager wrote:
> >> Google and Mapquest get their basemaps, if memory serves, from Navtech. 
> > 
> > FYI, Google is now doing most things in-house.  They have severed their
> > ties with NavTech, deCarta and others and going direct to government.


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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread William McKeehan

I'm not talking about making the http server open to anyone; it could limit
itself to 127.0.0.1 for the type of thing I'm talking about.

-- 
William McKeehan
KI4HDU
http://mckeehan.homeip.net

On Tue, October 9, 2007 3:16 pm, Gerry Creager wrote:
> William McKeehan wrote:
>> On Tue, October 9, 2007 2:46 pm, Brad Douglas wrote:
>>> Are you suggesting that everyone have a working http server on their
>>> local machine?  That is quite an excessive (and generally insecure)
>>> method of accomplishing the given goal, locally.
>>
>> Well, I'm thinking about a limited http server as part of Xastir, not
>> necessarily on port 80 (the default http port). It would be similar to the
>> current Xastir server port. I think we could find code for a simple http
>> engine to incorporate into the Xastir code that is neither excessive nor
>> insecure.
>
> Lots of (real) security professionals will ask serious questions about
> standing up a web server on a port besides 80, 8080 or 8000.  Be
> prepared to have to answer those questions.  Also, I cringe everytime I
> think of the port-scamming APRS-IS is already involved in.  We should
> have written the spec, gone to IANA and gotten a port-list, and
> implemented it.
>
>>> IMO, wxPython is the way to go for GUI development.
>>
>> My suggested approach would let people develop a GUI in multiple
>> environments
>> and provide a standard "API" to facilitate this development.
>
> That works if we're looking at exposing an interface and expecting folks
> to write to it, ala SOAP.  Unfortunately, then, every new SOAP service
> starts looking like a "one-off" and the eventual consolidation of WSDLs
> and SOAP implementations will result in... xml-rpc, which has already
> been around for quite awhile.
>
>>> I highly recommend you look into REST[1] before proceeding.
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> http://www.workflowresearch.com/Publications/PDF/MIZU.JENI.KESW-DSS(2004).pdf
>
> gerry
> --
> Gerry Creager -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Texas Mesonet -- AATLT, Texas A&M University
> Cell: 979.229.5301 Office: 979.862.3982 FAX: 979.862.3983
> Office: 1700 Research Parkway Ste 160, TAMU, College Station, TX 77843
>
>
>

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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread Brad Douglas

On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 14:03 -0500, Gerry Creager wrote:
> Brad Douglas wrote:
> > On Thu, 2007-10-04 at 14:27 -0400, William McKeehan wrote:
> >> Well, the last time we discussed this, I think this is where the discussion
> >> ended (after we managed to get a piglatin translation added to the
> >> repository).
> >>
> >> I've been playing and thinking about this a fair amount. What about using
> >> HTML/JavaScript/XML ala Ajax? This would require Xastir having an "http" 
> >> style
> >> server that would serve up pages and would respond to certain queries with 
> >> XML
> >> code. For example if Xastir's server were listening on port 8001,
> >> http://localhost:8001/getStationInformation?callsignssid=KI4HDU-2 would
> >> respond with something like
> >> 
> >> KI4HDU-2
> >> 75
> >> 10/04/2007 14:05:08
> >> 
> >> 10/04 14:05 : .open2300v1.10
> >> 10/04 14:00 :
> >> 
> >> .
> >> .
> >> .
> >> 
> > 
> > Are you suggesting that everyone have a working http server on their
> > local machine?  That is quite an excessive (and generally insecure)
> > method of accomplishing the given goal, locally.
> 
> I don't seem to have too much in the way of security problems with web 
> servers on darned near everything we stand up, either apache or tomcat. 
>   We also run some stand-alone systems.  I do tend to look for 
> excessive, unsuccessful login attempts and automatically block them, and 
> my iptables rules are pretty tight, but standing up a basic web server 
> and securing it isn't a big deal.  Or, am I demonstrating, again, how 
> warped I've become?

I prefer to not require that users be as security minded as we are.
It's a problem waiting to happen, not to mention the fact that users
will be required to install and properly setup a web server and the
necessary extensions (mapserver/FDO?) in the first place.

Even I have trouble getting FDO to install properly (damn you,
Autodesk! ;-).

[snip]

> >> Does this sound like something that would be useful? Personally, I think 
> >> this
> >> would let people develop their own APRS "interface" using Xastir to do the
> >> heavy lifting - and I think that if done correctly, this would eventually 
> >> let
> >> you run Xastir in a daemon mode and only use this interface if you wanted 
> >> to.
> > 
> > IMO, wxPython is the way to go for GUI development.
> 
> IMNSHO, either will do.  I write more javascript these days than python, 
> as someone else has become the python guru around here.

Again, similar to Java, JS is write once; test everywhere; rewrite;
test; rewrite; test...  Not all JS behaves equally in all browsers. :-(

Python is surprisingly easy to learn and does not suffer to licensing
and flame wars others are subjected to.  I've made my case so I'll shut
up, now.  YMMV.


-- 
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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread Gerry Creager


Interesting.  Happened within the last 2 weeks?


Brad Douglas wrote:

On Fri, 2007-10-05 at 22:53 -0500, Gerry Creager wrote:
Google and Mapquest get their basemaps, if memory serves, from Navtech. 


FYI, Google is now doing most things in-house.  They have severed their
ties with NavTech, deCarta and others and going direct to government.




--
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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread Gerry Creager


Brad Douglas wrote:

On Thu, 2007-10-04 at 19:18 -0500, Jason Winningham wrote:

On Oct 4, 2007, at 7:03 PM, Tate Belden wrote:

Is that even possible? To standardize on a generic 'SQL' so a  
specific set of features offered by any one SQL server don't  
dictate that server and only that server can be used?
I seem to recall that postgres has some specific GIS-type extensions  
(PostGIS?) that would be desirable for an xastir implementation.


Yes, PostGIS has spatial extensions, but I believe requiring the user
have a full-blown database is excessive.  I use it myself, but it
shouldn't be forced onto anyone.

SQLite should suffice in parsing DBase files of reasonable size.


And with SQLite, you lose the capability of letting the database do the 
heavy lifting for geospatial queries.  A PostGIS implementation is not 
too hard, and a default schema is straightforward.


gerry
--
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Cell: 979.229.5301 Office: 979.862.3982 FAX: 979.862.3983
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Re: Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread Brad Douglas

On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 15:02 -0400, William McKeehan wrote:
> On Tue, October 9, 2007 2:46 pm, Brad Douglas wrote:
> > Are you suggesting that everyone have a working http server on their
> > local machine?  That is quite an excessive (and generally insecure)
> > method of accomplishing the given goal, locally.
> 
> Well, I'm thinking about a limited http server as part of Xastir, not
> necessarily on port 80 (the default http port). It would be similar to the
> current Xastir server port. I think we could find code for a simple http
> engine to incorporate into the Xastir code that is neither excessive nor
> insecure.

If that happens, I will stop using Xastir.  It is unreasonable to
require users to install and run a web server for a single application.
Web GUIs are highly limited in functionality.

> > IMO, wxPython is the way to go for GUI development.
> 
> My suggested approach would let people develop a GUI in multiple environments
> and provide a standard "API" to facilitate this development.

This is not practical, IMO.


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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread Gerry Creager


William McKeehan wrote:

On Tue, October 9, 2007 2:46 pm, Brad Douglas wrote:

Are you suggesting that everyone have a working http server on their
local machine?  That is quite an excessive (and generally insecure)
method of accomplishing the given goal, locally.


Well, I'm thinking about a limited http server as part of Xastir, not
necessarily on port 80 (the default http port). It would be similar to the
current Xastir server port. I think we could find code for a simple http
engine to incorporate into the Xastir code that is neither excessive nor
insecure.


Lots of (real) security professionals will ask serious questions about 
standing up a web server on a port besides 80, 8080 or 8000.  Be 
prepared to have to answer those questions.  Also, I cringe everytime I 
think of the port-scamming APRS-IS is already involved in.  We should 
have written the spec, gone to IANA and gotten a port-list, and 
implemented it.



IMO, wxPython is the way to go for GUI development.


My suggested approach would let people develop a GUI in multiple environments
and provide a standard "API" to facilitate this development.


That works if we're looking at exposing an interface and expecting folks 
to write to it, ala SOAP.  Unfortunately, then, every new SOAP service 
starts looking like a "one-off" and the eventual consolidation of WSDLs 
and SOAP implementations will result in... xml-rpc, which has already 
been around for quite awhile.



I highly recommend you look into REST[1] before proceeding.

[1]
http://www.workflowresearch.com/Publications/PDF/MIZU.JENI.KESW-DSS(2004).pdf


gerry
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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread Brad Douglas

On Fri, 2007-10-05 at 22:53 -0500, Gerry Creager wrote:
> Google and Mapquest get their basemaps, if memory serves, from Navtech. 

FYI, Google is now doing most things in-house.  They have severed their
ties with NavTech, deCarta and others and going direct to government.


-- 
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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread Gerry Creager


Brad Douglas wrote:

On Thu, 2007-10-04 at 14:27 -0400, William McKeehan wrote:

Well, the last time we discussed this, I think this is where the discussion
ended (after we managed to get a piglatin translation added to the
repository).

I've been playing and thinking about this a fair amount. What about using
HTML/JavaScript/XML ala Ajax? This would require Xastir having an "http" style
server that would serve up pages and would respond to certain queries with XML
code. For example if Xastir's server were listening on port 8001,
http://localhost:8001/getStationInformation?callsignssid=KI4HDU-2 would
respond with something like

KI4HDU-2
75
10/04/2007 14:05:08

10/04 14:05 : .open2300v1.10
10/04 14:00 :

.
.
.



Are you suggesting that everyone have a working http server on their
local machine?  That is quite an excessive (and generally insecure)
method of accomplishing the given goal, locally.


I don't seem to have too much in the way of security problems with web 
servers on darned near everything we stand up, either apache or tomcat. 
 We also run some stand-alone systems.  I do tend to look for 
excessive, unsuccessful login attempts and automatically block them, and 
my iptables rules are pretty tight, but standing up a basic web server 
and securing it isn't a big deal.  Or, am I demonstrating, again, how 
warped I've become?



Other things like
http://localhost:8001/findStation?callsignssid=KI4HDU-2&exact=1 would cause
the UI to behave as if someone had used the "Station-> Find Station" dialog
box.

To facilitate this, we could provide an Xastir "Object" in JavaScript that
would handle most of the heavy lifting here's a rough (very) start...

function XastirObject() {
this.myConn=null;
this.getStationInformation=getStationInformation;
this.findStation=findStation;

this.myConn = new XHConn();
if (!this.myConn) alert("XMLHTTP not available.");
if (!this.myConn) return;
}

function findStation(CallsignSSID) {
this.getStation(CallsignSSID, xastirFindStation);
}

function xastirFindStation(oXML) {
var xml = oXML.responseXML;
alert( oXML.responseText );
var station = xml.getElementsByTagName( 'station' )[0].firstChild;

var newStation = new station();
newStation.CallsignSSID = 
station.getElementsByTagName('name')[0].firstChild;
newStation.find();
}

function getStationInformation(CallsignSSID, fnToDo) {
   this.myConn.connect("http://localhost:8001/getStationInformation";, "POST",
"CallsignSSID=" + CallsignSSID, fnToDo);
}

function station() {
this.CallsignSSID = "";
this.find=find;
this.send=send;
return this;
}

function find() {
Alert("Ask Xastir to 'find' " + this.CallsignSSID + ".");
}


Does this sound like something that would be useful? Personally, I think this
would let people develop their own APRS "interface" using Xastir to do the
heavy lifting - and I think that if done correctly, this would eventually let
you run Xastir in a daemon mode and only use this interface if you wanted to.


IMO, wxPython is the way to go for GUI development.


IMNSHO, either will do.  I write more javascript these days than python, 
as someone else has become the python guru around here.



I imagine that adding a simple http server to the code would be pretty
straight forward; the only question would be if that server would be able to
get the data to answer the queries with easily.


I suspect that, if you're talking SOAP services (and WSDL) you're gonna 
end up with a tomcat server.  Still easy to secure, not, in my 
experience, quite as easy to configure as apache.



Thoughts?


I highly recommend you look into REST[1] before proceeding.

[1]
http://www.workflowresearch.com/Publications/PDF/MIZU.JENI.KESW-DSS(2004).pdf


I strongly prefer RESTful services, too.

gerry

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Re: Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread Brad Douglas

On Thu, 2007-10-04 at 19:18 -0500, Jason Winningham wrote:
> On Oct 4, 2007, at 7:03 PM, Tate Belden wrote:
> 
> > Is that even possible? To standardize on a generic 'SQL' so a  
> > specific set of features offered by any one SQL server don't  
> > dictate that server and only that server can be used?
> 
> I seem to recall that postgres has some specific GIS-type extensions  
> (PostGIS?) that would be desirable for an xastir implementation.

Yes, PostGIS has spatial extensions, but I believe requiring the user
have a full-blown database is excessive.  I use it myself, but it
shouldn't be forced onto anyone.

SQLite should suffice in parsing DBase files of reasonable size.


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Re: Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread William McKeehan

On Tue, October 9, 2007 2:46 pm, Brad Douglas wrote:
> Are you suggesting that everyone have a working http server on their
> local machine?  That is quite an excessive (and generally insecure)
> method of accomplishing the given goal, locally.

Well, I'm thinking about a limited http server as part of Xastir, not
necessarily on port 80 (the default http port). It would be similar to the
current Xastir server port. I think we could find code for a simple http
engine to incorporate into the Xastir code that is neither excessive nor
insecure.

>
> IMO, wxPython is the way to go for GUI development.

My suggested approach would let people develop a GUI in multiple environments
and provide a standard "API" to facilitate this development.

>
> I highly recommend you look into REST[1] before proceeding.
>
> [1]
> http://www.workflowresearch.com/Publications/PDF/MIZU.JENI.KESW-DSS(2004).pdf
>
> --
> 73, de Brad KB8UYR/6 

-- 
William McKeehan
KI4HDU
http://mckeehan.homeip.net

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Re: X-IMail-SPAM-Connection Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread Brad Douglas

On Thu, 2007-10-04 at 16:49 -0500, Jason Winningham wrote:
> On Oct 4, 2007, at 2:50 PM, Stephen - K1LNX wrote:
> 
> > Maps, maps and more maps.
> 
> Ye gods, xastir already supports hundreds of formats.  If there's an  
> area of xastir lacking, that ain't it. (:

I guess I need to get back to making those tutorials.  I've been getting
sidetracked with other projects (GRASS development). :(

> > We need the ability to use Google maps
> 
> Licensing issues could problematic, but I think someone is already  
> keeping an eye on that.

Google does not have a compatible license, although they aren't exactly
enforcing it, either.  I avoid Google imagery at all costs for a variety
of reasons.  Licensing just happens to be near the top of the list.

> I suspect something more like our own internet map server (or set of  
> servers) could be useful, so that the free map data that's available  
> could be stored in such a way it could be displayed nicely and  
> consistently.  An added bonus to this method would be that those of  
> us who operate mobile/internet-less could duplicate the mapserver  
> with our personal dataset.

I've considered doing this.  I have capable web hosting, but have lacked
the time to put mapserver up.  This would also most likely include a
fork() of OSM that enforces data integrity.

> > True cross-platform compatibility. Should it be developed in Python  
> > or Java?

Java: Write Once; Test everywhere.

I'd prefer to see wxPython on the GUI.  I was initially very skeptical,
but I've been quite impressed with usability and interface speed.

> I'd say neither, as scripting/interpreted languages (Python) don't  
> always scale well (there's a _lot_ of code in xastir).  Python  
> doesn't appeal to me for another reason: minor version differences  
> are incompatible with each other (ImageMagick, anyone?).  I've got a  
> reasonably complex unix enterprise configuration, and python is a  
> serious pain. Java seems to be a pig, performance-wise.

There's no need to rewrite the core of Xastir except where relating to
GUI.  Tk/Tcl/*Magick is the bane of Xastir.

> I'd like to see xastir remain fairly lightweight for mobile/portable  
> applications.
> 
> Something like Qt (licensing issues again!) would be more desirable,  
> IMO.  wxWidgets claims to be a similar open source cross-platform  
> development toolkit, but I know nothing about it (other than the only  
> time I tried to install on Solaris it wouldn't build without a fight).

My only issue with wxPython is it's rapid development, which is not
always backwards compatible.

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Re: Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-09 Thread Brad Douglas

On Thu, 2007-10-04 at 14:27 -0400, William McKeehan wrote:
> Well, the last time we discussed this, I think this is where the discussion
> ended (after we managed to get a piglatin translation added to the
> repository).
> 
> I've been playing and thinking about this a fair amount. What about using
> HTML/JavaScript/XML ala Ajax? This would require Xastir having an "http" style
> server that would serve up pages and would respond to certain queries with XML
> code. For example if Xastir's server were listening on port 8001,
> http://localhost:8001/getStationInformation?callsignssid=KI4HDU-2 would
> respond with something like
> 
> KI4HDU-2
> 75
> 10/04/2007 14:05:08
> 
> 10/04 14:05 : .open2300v1.10
> 10/04 14:00 :
> 
> .
> .
> .
> 

Are you suggesting that everyone have a working http server on their
local machine?  That is quite an excessive (and generally insecure)
method of accomplishing the given goal, locally.

> Other things like
> http://localhost:8001/findStation?callsignssid=KI4HDU-2&exact=1 would cause
> the UI to behave as if someone had used the "Station-> Find Station" dialog
> box.
> 
> To facilitate this, we could provide an Xastir "Object" in JavaScript that
> would handle most of the heavy lifting here's a rough (very) start...
> 
> function XastirObject() {
> this.myConn=null;
> this.getStationInformation=getStationInformation;
> this.findStation=findStation;
> 
> this.myConn = new XHConn();
> if (!this.myConn) alert("XMLHTTP not available.");
> if (!this.myConn) return;
> }
> 
> function findStation(CallsignSSID) {
> this.getStation(CallsignSSID, xastirFindStation);
> }
> 
> function xastirFindStation(oXML) {
> var xml = oXML.responseXML;
> alert( oXML.responseText );
> var station = xml.getElementsByTagName( 'station' )[0].firstChild;
> 
> var newStation = new station();
> newStation.CallsignSSID = 
> station.getElementsByTagName('name')[0].firstChild;
> newStation.find();
> }
> 
> function getStationInformation(CallsignSSID, fnToDo) {
>this.myConn.connect("http://localhost:8001/getStationInformation";, "POST",
> "CallsignSSID=" + CallsignSSID, fnToDo);
> }
> 
> function station() {
> this.CallsignSSID = "";
> this.find=find;
> this.send=send;
> return this;
> }
> 
> function find() {
> Alert("Ask Xastir to 'find' " + this.CallsignSSID + ".");
> }
> 
> 
> Does this sound like something that would be useful? Personally, I think this
> would let people develop their own APRS "interface" using Xastir to do the
> heavy lifting - and I think that if done correctly, this would eventually let
> you run Xastir in a daemon mode and only use this interface if you wanted to.

IMO, wxPython is the way to go for GUI development.

> I imagine that adding a simple http server to the code would be pretty
> straight forward; the only question would be if that server would be able to
> get the data to answer the queries with easily.
> 
> Thoughts?

I highly recommend you look into REST[1] before proceeding.


[1]
http://www.workflowresearch.com/Publications/PDF/MIZU.JENI.KESW-DSS(2004).pdf


-- 
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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-06 Thread Gerry Creager

Don't know if we could include the database engine in Xastir, and that's 
rather contrary to the Unix Way of Doing Things, but we could facilitate 
portage, rpm's and deb's to cover most of the obvious ones with a 
postgres dependency, and a component to add the postgis patch.


More'n likely my preference will be to target PostgreSQL 8.0 and PostGIS 
0.9 (or higher in both cases) so anything newer would be acceptable. 
The program overhead for these is relatively light.


I do not propose to support a tarball with dependencies.  Slack is not 
where I'd like to go...


gerry

KC7ZRU wrote:
If I'm understanding this right, that'd work for me!! Thanks for the 
discussion.


As a 'drop in' part of xastir itself, I'd guess it'd make things quite a 
bit larger distribution wise, but sure would make the cross platform bit 
sweet.


I'd be a bit concerned with crossing up users package managers (RPM/DEB) 
systems. No idea how or what may get over-written by their system's auto 
update. But, if it was 'part and parcel' of Xastir itself, it's own 
rapid deployment cycle would take care of updates and keep it separate 
from any other SQL server already running (even Postgres). Am I 
understanding this right or just getting concerned with things that 
don't need to be worried about.


As always, those that are doing it - do it. The rest of us get to use it 
and appreciate it!


73!

Gerry Creager wrote:


I think that, for most installs, we could have a PostgreSQL package 
that could drop in and then a script that puts PostGIS on top, then 
import the basic schemas.


I don't see it as more than a drop-in.

gerry

Jason Winningham wrote:


On Oct 4, 2007, at 7:03 PM, Tate Belden wrote:

Is that even possible? To standardize on a generic 'SQL' so a 
specific set of features offered by any one SQL server don't dictate 
that server and only that server can be used?


I seem to recall that postgres has some specific GIS-type extensions 
(PostGIS?) that would be desirable for an xastir implementation.




I wouldn't worry too much about portability issues - I would expect 
the database engine to be at least as portable (if not more so) than 
the rest of the xastir support packages.


-Jason
kg4wsv


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Cell: 979.229.5301 Office: 979.458.4020 FAX: 979.862.3983
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Re: Navteq was bought -was- Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-06 Thread Gerry Creager

Also said they intended to keep Navteq as a separate operating unit. 
This is a play to get first dibs on location-based services maps.  I 
anticipate they'll still sell those to competitors, but that the price 
may go up a bit.  If they go up too much someone else will fill the void.


gerry

Richard Polivka, N6NKO wrote:


Nokia bought Navteq for $6.8B US, either this week or last week.

Now the fun begins

73 from 807,

Richard, N6NKO
Tom Russo wrote:
On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 10:53:12PM -0500, we recorded a 
bogon-computron collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, 
containing:
 
 Google and Mapquest get their basemaps, if memory serves, from 
Navtech.  No  one seriously uses Tiger anymore for "real" 
applications.  After USGS  migrated to SDTS format Tiger was the only 
decent alternative, for some low  value of decent.  It was based on 
the original USGS maps, regardless of what  Census told you.  
However, Census munges them for their purposes (census  work, 
interestingly enough) and effectively renders them less than adequate 
 for "real" mapping.


 In other words, "These maps should come with a consumer product 
safety  warning."



And this is the last year that TIGER/Line data will be released in 
that format.

According to their web site, they will start releasing the Census maps in
shapefile format --- but from the looks of it, these shapefiles will 
NOT be
very useful for the purpose of drawing road maps.  The dbf fields they 
plan

to include are very clearly designed solely for census purposes, and they
will be missing a lot of the data that we rely on for rendering.

 

 Lee Bengston wrote:
   

On 10/5/07, Jason Winningham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 

On Oct 5, 2007, at 8:48 AM, I wrote:

   

http://roadnav.sourceforge.net/


Ah, this is more like it.  At a glance: maps - so what? looks a lot
like xastir (maybe they do a bit better job rendering labels).
Keep looking: vector maps, rendered by the app, included routing,
vector maps based on TIGER data.
  

Looks good, but I couldn't get enough data downloaded/converted to
try anything interested - got tired of it continuously bombing on the
mac.  Oh well, another one bites the dust.

I wasn't able to get the roadnav deb package to install in andLinux, 
but I

was able to compile it from source after installing wxwidgets from the
ubuntu respository.  Not a bad program - with the Tiger maps, they are
labeling the highways better, and I like they way they display the 
minor

streets at high zoom levels.
However, it's the same old TigerMap problem at intermediate zoom 
levels -
either no street labels at all or labels in a very tiny hard to read 
font
depending on the exact zoom.  The same view in Google, Mapquest, 
etc. shows

the street names clearly.  I don't care about looking really slick like
Google does, but street labels that I can read are important.
But the above is in the context of XASTIR and seeing APRS stations in
certain views.  Using Roadnav on a trip should be fine - can zoom in 
or out

as needed - only need to track one vehicle.  Overall I would say it's a
pretty nice package.
Lee-K5DAT
Murphy, TX
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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-06 Thread KC7ZRU

If I'm understanding this right, that'd work for me!! Thanks for the 
discussion.


As a 'drop in' part of xastir itself, I'd guess it'd make things quite a 
bit larger distribution wise, but sure would make the cross platform bit 
sweet.


I'd be a bit concerned with crossing up users package managers (RPM/DEB) 
systems. No idea how or what may get over-written by their system's auto 
update. But, if it was 'part and parcel' of Xastir itself, it's own 
rapid deployment cycle would take care of updates and keep it separate 
from any other SQL server already running (even Postgres). Am I 
understanding this right or just getting concerned with things that 
don't need to be worried about.


As always, those that are doing it - do it. The rest of us get to use it 
and appreciate it!


73!

Gerry Creager wrote:


I think that, for most installs, we could have a PostgreSQL package that 
could drop in and then a script that puts PostGIS on top, then import 
the basic schemas.


I don't see it as more than a drop-in.

gerry

Jason Winningham wrote:


On Oct 4, 2007, at 7:03 PM, Tate Belden wrote:

Is that even possible? To standardize on a generic 'SQL' so a 
specific set of features offered by any one SQL server don't dictate 
that server and only that server can be used?


I seem to recall that postgres has some specific GIS-type extensions 
(PostGIS?) that would be desirable for an xastir implementation.




I wouldn't worry too much about portability issues - I would expect 
the database engine to be at least as portable (if not more so) than 
the rest of the xastir support packages.


-Jason
kg4wsv


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Navteq was bought -was- Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-06 Thread Richard Polivka, N6NKO



Nokia bought Navteq for $6.8B US, either this week or last week.

Now the fun begins

73 from 807,

Richard, N6NKO
Tom Russo wrote:

On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 10:53:12PM -0500, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of 
the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing:
  
 Google and Mapquest get their basemaps, if memory serves, from Navtech.  No 
 one seriously uses Tiger anymore for "real" applications.  After USGS 
 migrated to SDTS format Tiger was the only decent alternative, for some low 
 value of decent.  It was based on the original USGS maps, regardless of what 
 Census told you.  However, Census munges them for their purposes (census 
 work, interestingly enough) and effectively renders them less than adequate 
 for "real" mapping.


 In other words, "These maps should come with a consumer product safety 
 warning."



And this is the last year that TIGER/Line data will be released in that format.
According to their web site, they will start releasing the Census maps in
shapefile format --- but from the looks of it, these shapefiles will NOT be
very useful for the purpose of drawing road maps.  The dbf fields they plan
to include are very clearly designed solely for census purposes, and they
will be missing a lot of the data that we rely on for rendering.

  

 Lee Bengston wrote:


On 10/5/07, Jason Winningham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

On Oct 5, 2007, at 8:48 AM, I wrote:



http://roadnav.sourceforge.net/


Ah, this is more like it.  At a glance: maps - so what? looks a lot
like xastir (maybe they do a bit better job rendering labels).
Keep looking: vector maps, rendered by the app, included routing,
vector maps based on TIGER data.
  

Looks good, but I couldn't get enough data downloaded/converted to
try anything interested - got tired of it continuously bombing on the
mac.  Oh well, another one bites the dust.


I wasn't able to get the roadnav deb package to install in andLinux, but I
was able to compile it from source after installing wxwidgets from the
ubuntu respository.  Not a bad program - with the Tiger maps, they are
labeling the highways better, and I like they way they display the minor
streets at high zoom levels.
However, it's the same old TigerMap problem at intermediate zoom levels -
either no street labels at all or labels in a very tiny hard to read font
depending on the exact zoom.  The same view in Google, Mapquest, etc. shows
the street names clearly.  I don't care about looking really slick like
Google does, but street labels that I can read are important.
But the above is in the context of XASTIR and seeing APRS stations in
certain views.  Using Roadnav on a trip should be fine - can zoom in or out
as needed - only need to track one vehicle.  Overall I would say it's a
pretty nice package.
Lee-K5DAT
Murphy, TX
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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-05 Thread Tom Russo

On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 10:53:12PM -0500, we recorded a bogon-computron 
collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing:
>  Google and Mapquest get their basemaps, if memory serves, from Navtech.  No 
>  one seriously uses Tiger anymore for "real" applications.  After USGS 
>  migrated to SDTS format Tiger was the only decent alternative, for some low 
>  value of decent.  It was based on the original USGS maps, regardless of what 
>  Census told you.  However, Census munges them for their purposes (census 
>  work, interestingly enough) and effectively renders them less than adequate 
>  for "real" mapping.
> 
>  In other words, "These maps should come with a consumer product safety 
>  warning."

And this is the last year that TIGER/Line data will be released in that format.
According to their web site, they will start releasing the Census maps in
shapefile format --- but from the looks of it, these shapefiles will NOT be
very useful for the purpose of drawing road maps.  The dbf fields they plan
to include are very clearly designed solely for census purposes, and they
will be missing a lot of the data that we rely on for rendering.

>  Lee Bengston wrote:
> > On 10/5/07, Jason Winningham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Oct 5, 2007, at 8:48 AM, I wrote:
> >>
>  http://roadnav.sourceforge.net/
> >>> Ah, this is more like it.  At a glance: maps - so what? looks a lot
> >>> like xastir (maybe they do a bit better job rendering labels).
> >>> Keep looking: vector maps, rendered by the app, included routing,
> >>> vector maps based on TIGER data.
> >>
> >> Looks good, but I couldn't get enough data downloaded/converted to
> >> try anything interested - got tired of it continuously bombing on the
> >> mac.  Oh well, another one bites the dust.
> > I wasn't able to get the roadnav deb package to install in andLinux, but I
> > was able to compile it from source after installing wxwidgets from the
> > ubuntu respository.  Not a bad program - with the Tiger maps, they are
> > labeling the highways better, and I like they way they display the minor
> > streets at high zoom levels.
> > However, it's the same old TigerMap problem at intermediate zoom levels -
> > either no street labels at all or labels in a very tiny hard to read font
> > depending on the exact zoom.  The same view in Google, Mapquest, etc. shows
> > the street names clearly.  I don't care about looking really slick like
> > Google does, but street labels that I can read are important.
> > But the above is in the context of XASTIR and seeing APRS stations in
> > certain views.  Using Roadnav on a trip should be fine - can zoom in or out
> > as needed - only need to track one vehicle.  Overall I would say it's a
> > pretty nice package.
> > Lee-K5DAT
> > Murphy, TX
> > ___
> > Xastir mailing list
> > Xastir@xastir.org
> > http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
> 
>  -- 
>  Gerry Creager -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Texas Mesonet -- AATLT, Texas A&M University 
>  Cell: 979.229.5301 Office: 979.458.4020 FAX: 979.862.3983
>  Office: 1700 Research Parkway Ste 160, TAMU, College Station, TX 77843
>  ___
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"And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is
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 oooh, the sky is the limit!"  --- The Tick
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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-05 Thread Gerry Creager

Google and Mapquest get their basemaps, if memory serves, from Navtech. 
 No one seriously uses Tiger anymore for "real" applications.  After 
USGS migrated to SDTS format Tiger was the only decent alternative, for 
some low value of decent.  It was based on the original USGS maps, 
regardless of what Census told you.  However, Census munges them for 
their purposes (census work, interestingly enough) and effectively 
renders them less than adequate for "real" mapping.


In other words, "These maps should come with a consumer product safety 
warning."


gerry

Lee Bengston wrote:

On 10/5/07, Jason Winningham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On Oct 5, 2007, at 8:48 AM, I wrote:


http://roadnav.sourceforge.net/

Ah, this is more like it.  At a glance: maps - so what? looks a lot
like xastir (maybe they do a bit better job rendering labels).
Keep looking: vector maps, rendered by the app, included routing,
vector maps based on TIGER data.


Looks good, but I couldn't get enough data downloaded/converted to
try anything interested - got tired of it continuously bombing on the
mac.  Oh well, another one bites the dust.



I wasn't able to get the roadnav deb package to install in andLinux, but I
was able to compile it from source after installing wxwidgets from the
ubuntu respository.  Not a bad program - with the Tiger maps, they are
labeling the highways better, and I like they way they display the minor
streets at high zoom levels.

However, it's the same old TigerMap problem at intermediate zoom levels -
either no street labels at all or labels in a very tiny hard to read font
depending on the exact zoom.  The same view in Google, Mapquest, etc. shows
the street names clearly.  I don't care about looking really slick like
Google does, but street labels that I can read are important.

But the above is in the context of XASTIR and seeing APRS stations in
certain views.  Using Roadnav on a trip should be fine - can zoom in or out
as needed - only need to track one vehicle.  Overall I would say it's a
pretty nice package.

Lee-K5DAT
Murphy, TX
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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-05 Thread Lee Bengston

On 10/5/07, Jason Winningham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Oct 5, 2007, at 8:48 AM, I wrote:
>
> >> http://roadnav.sourceforge.net/
> >
> > Ah, this is more like it.  At a glance: maps - so what? looks a lot
> > like xastir (maybe they do a bit better job rendering labels).
> > Keep looking: vector maps, rendered by the app, included routing,
> > vector maps based on TIGER data.
>
>
> Looks good, but I couldn't get enough data downloaded/converted to
> try anything interested - got tired of it continuously bombing on the
> mac.  Oh well, another one bites the dust.

I wasn't able to get the roadnav deb package to install in andLinux, but I
was able to compile it from source after installing wxwidgets from the
ubuntu respository.  Not a bad program - with the Tiger maps, they are
labeling the highways better, and I like they way they display the minor
streets at high zoom levels.

However, it's the same old TigerMap problem at intermediate zoom levels -
either no street labels at all or labels in a very tiny hard to read font
depending on the exact zoom.  The same view in Google, Mapquest, etc. shows
the street names clearly.  I don't care about looking really slick like
Google does, but street labels that I can read are important.

But the above is in the context of XASTIR and seeing APRS stations in
certain views.  Using Roadnav on a trip should be fine - can zoom in or out
as needed - only need to track one vehicle.  Overall I would say it's a
pretty nice package.

Lee-K5DAT
Murphy, TX
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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-05 Thread N1OFZ

FWIW, I used roadnav last year for a trip from CT to PA and it worked  
great.  The directions were slightly different from Google (Google  
used a parallel highway that would have saved about 15-20 minutes).   
Overall I found it to be a pretty good application.


Dana  N1OFZ


On Oct 5, 2007, at 9:48 AM, Jason Winningham wrote:


http://roadnav.sourceforge.net/


Ah, this is more like it.  At a glance: maps - so what? looks a lot  
like xastir (maybe they do a bit better job rendering labels).   
Keep looking: vector maps, rendered by the app, included routing,  
vector maps based on TIGER data.  Offline maps! Cross platform!
Cross platform support based on wxWidgets, could be something  
interesting for our xastir developers to look at/borrow for xastir v2.


I'm downloading this one to my mac right now, will probably try it  
out on my trip this weekend.  Thanks for the pointer!

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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-05 Thread Curt, WE7U

On Fri, 5 Oct 2007, Jason Winningham wrote:

> I did notice this, though:  GPX, an XML schema for "waypoint, route,
> and track" exchange.  Could be interesting to include in xastir if
> XML support is included along the way.
>
> http://www.topografix.com/gpx.asp

Side topic:  Seen the xastir/scripts/gpx2shape script?

"gpsbabel" also supports GPX format.

FWIW you can download user-created trail files from the Topo site
(mapXchange) then convert them for use with Xastir via "gpsbabel",
but you don't need GPX format at all in this particular case.

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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-05 Thread Jason Winningham



On Oct 5, 2007, at 8:48 AM, I wrote:


http://roadnav.sourceforge.net/


Ah, this is more like it.  At a glance: maps - so what? looks a lot  
like xastir (maybe they do a bit better job rendering labels).   
Keep looking: vector maps, rendered by the app, included routing,  
vector maps based on TIGER data.



Looks good, but I couldn't get enough data downloaded/converted to  
try anything interested - got tired of it continuously bombing on the  
mac.  Oh well, another one bites the dust.



I did notice this, though:  GPX, an XML schema for "waypoint, route,  
and track" exchange.  Could be interesting to include in xastir if  
XML support is included along the way.


http://www.topografix.com/gpx.asp


-Jason
kg4wsv


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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-05 Thread Jason Winningham



On Oct 5, 2007, at 8:12 AM, William McKeehan wrote:


Have a look at these:


OK, I've looked and now I'll comment. (:


http://www.gpsdrive.de/


look at the screen shots and "wow!".  Then look at the documentation:  
raster maps only.  These maps came from somewhere else.  No routing.   
bleh.  The only interesting thing here is GTK use for cross-platform  
support.  next!



http://roadnav.sourceforge.net/


Ah, this is more like it.  At a glance: maps - so what? looks a lot  
like xastir (maybe they do a bit better job rendering labels).  Keep  
looking: vector maps, rendered by the app, included routing, vector  
maps based on TIGER data.  Offline maps! Cross platform!   Cross  
platform support based on wxWidgets, could be something interesting  
for our xastir developers to look at/borrow for xastir v2.


I'm downloading this one to my mac right now, will probably try it  
out on my trip this weekend.  Thanks for the pointer!



http://roadmap.digitalomaha.net/


This one doesn't grab me - first thing I noticed is that there isn't  
a single street label on any screenshot.  Appears to target some  
linux distro that's unfamiliar to me (in spite of being named  
Familiar linux. :)


-Jason
kg4wsv


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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-05 Thread William McKeehan

Have a look at these:

http://www.gpsdrive.de/
http://roadnav.sourceforge.net/
http://roadmap.digitalomaha.net/

-- 
William McKeehan
KI4HDU
http://mckeehan.homeip.net

On Thu, October 4, 2007 10:15 pm, Lee Bengston wrote:
> On 10/4/07, William McKeehan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...]
> Now to really move on to some wishful thinking, what I would like to see is
> an open-source based "Street Atlas" program based perhaps on Tiger data that
> is presented in a better looking, more readable format.  Of course, the new
> program would be designed in such a way that xastir could use it.

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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-04 Thread Gerry Creager

Despite Microsoft's claims to the contrary, SQLServer doesn't have a 
real spatial capability.  Neither does MySQL.  SDE/SQLServer does, but 
SDE isn't cheap.  PostgreSQL plus PostGIS (PostGIS is actually a patch 
to the schema mechanism) yields a spatial database on a par with Oracle 
and even acknowledged to be that good BY Oracle at times, usually when 
Oracle has released an update to beat features in place already in 
PostGIS.  And did I mention that PostGIS hasn't been out of beta but a 
couple of years and is still that good?


I think that, for most installs, we could have a PostgreSQL package that 
could drop in and then a script that puts PostGIS on top, then import 
the basic schemas.


I don't see it as more than a drop-in.

gerry

Jason Winningham wrote:


On Oct 4, 2007, at 7:03 PM, Tate Belden wrote:

Is that even possible? To standardize on a generic 'SQL' so a specific 
set of features offered by any one SQL server don't dictate that 
server and only that server can be used?


I seem to recall that postgres has some specific GIS-type extensions 
(PostGIS?) that would be desirable for an xastir implementation.




I wouldn't worry too much about portability issues - I would expect the 
database engine to be at least as portable (if not more so) than the 
rest of the xastir support packages.


-Jason
kg4wsv


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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-04 Thread Lee Bengston

On 10/4/07, William McKeehan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Thu, October 4, 2007 5:49 pm, Jason Winningham wrote:
>
> > Ye gods, xastir already supports hundreds of formats.  If there's an
> > area of xastir lacking, that ain't it. (:
>
> I would almost agree - but there are 2 specific things that many people
> would
> like to see in Xastir (these are unseen for good reason).
>
> 1 - Google maps
> 2 - Integration with something like Precision Mapping (like UI-View32)

In other words...
1. More readable/usable maps that are retrieved online
2. More readable/usable maps that can be used offline

I vote for number 2 as the higher priority because the offline maps could be
used whether a computer is connected or not.  It seems to me that the
Tiger2006_SE shapefiles have all the information - it's just that the info
needs to be presented in a better way.  Applying dbfawk seems capable of
only marginal improvement.
Now to really move on to some wishful thinking, what I would like to see is
an open-source based "Street Atlas" program based perhaps on Tiger data that
is presented in a better looking, more readable format.  Of course, the new
program would be designed in such a way that xastir could use it.

Regards,
Lee - K5DAT
Murphy, TX
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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-04 Thread Jason Winningham



On Oct 4, 2007, at 7:03 PM, Tate Belden wrote:

Is that even possible? To standardize on a generic 'SQL' so a  
specific set of features offered by any one SQL server don't  
dictate that server and only that server can be used?


I seem to recall that postgres has some specific GIS-type extensions  
(PostGIS?) that would be desirable for an xastir implementation.




I wouldn't worry too much about portability issues - I would expect  
the database engine to be at least as portable (if not more so) than  
the rest of the xastir support packages.


-Jason
kg4wsv


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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-04 Thread Tate Belden


Jason Winningham wrote:


On Oct 4, 2007, at 1:27 PM, William McKeehan wrote:


This would require Xastir having an "http" style
server that would serve up pages and would respond to certain queries 
with XML

code.


Nice idea - this would be a reasonably easy interface for add-on tools.

This makes me think of the Xastir version 2 database engine.  
Developers, any  thoughts on v2?


-Jason
kg4wsv




Not being a developer - just one of the long time spong.. er, users of 
their effrots - I'd ask that whatever database implementation is used, 
that it *NOT* be limited to any one particular flavor/brand of server. 
I'm thinking that may be a bit to ask for - special not knowing the 
effort it'd take to write.


I already have a SQL server running, hosting quite a few databases: 
dynamic sites, wikis, discussion boards, etc. It makes me cringe a bit 
to think of having to install, configure and run another server just cuz 
it didn't match the one I already had. (I'm intentionally trying to 
avoid saying any particular flavor/brand).


Is that even possible? To standardize on a generic 'SQL' so a specific 
set of features offered by any one SQL server don't dictate that server 
and only that server can be used? I mean Xastir has a reputation for 
running on a LOT of different systems already


Tate, KC7ZRU
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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-04 Thread Amateur Radio WB8NUT

Precision Mapping's licensing scheme is a pain in the rear.  Every time 
I moved it to a new PC, I had to have new codes and track the old codes 
because the old codes had to be used to get new codes and multiple 
modules required multiple codes and the UI-View interface required codes 
- Yuch! Never again will I buy their product. Nice maps, but not worth 
the hassle.


JMHO

Duffy
www.wb8nut.com

William McKeehan wrote:

On Thu, October 4, 2007 5:49 pm, Jason Winningham wrote:
  

On Oct 4, 2007, at 2:50 PM, Stephen - K1LNX wrote:



Maps, maps and more maps.
  

Ye gods, xastir already supports hundreds of formats.  If there's an
area of xastir lacking, that ain't it. (:



I would almost agree - but there are 2 specific things that many people would
like to see in Xastir (these are unseen for good reason).

1 - Google maps
2 - Integration with something like Precision Mapping (like UI-View32)

  


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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-04 Thread Gerry Creager

Precision Mapping has its own set of problems revolving around 
licensing.  UI-View addressed those but no one else has broken the code 
for less that lotsa $$$.  And, they're not a company I'd prefer to work 
with as they've already done impolite things to a friend's copyrighted 
materials and then fought him hard in court.


gc

William McKeehan wrote:

On Thu, October 4, 2007 5:49 pm, Jason Winningham wrote:

On Oct 4, 2007, at 2:50 PM, Stephen - K1LNX wrote:


Maps, maps and more maps.

Ye gods, xastir already supports hundreds of formats.  If there's an
area of xastir lacking, that ain't it. (:


I would almost agree - but there are 2 specific things that many people would
like to see in Xastir (these are unseen for good reason).

1 - Google maps
2 - Integration with something like Precision Mapping (like UI-View32)



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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-04 Thread William McKeehan

On Thu, October 4, 2007 5:49 pm, Jason Winningham wrote:
>
> On Oct 4, 2007, at 2:50 PM, Stephen - K1LNX wrote:
>
>> Maps, maps and more maps.
>
> Ye gods, xastir already supports hundreds of formats.  If there's an
> area of xastir lacking, that ain't it. (:

I would almost agree - but there are 2 specific things that many people would
like to see in Xastir (these are unseen for good reason).

1 - Google maps
2 - Integration with something like Precision Mapping (like UI-View32)

-- 
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KI4HDU
http://mckeehan.homeip.net
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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-04 Thread Jason Winningham



On Oct 4, 2007, at 2:50 PM, Stephen - K1LNX wrote:


Maps, maps and more maps.


Ye gods, xastir already supports hundreds of formats.  If there's an  
area of xastir lacking, that ain't it. (:



We need the ability to use Google maps


Licensing issues could problematic, but I think someone is already  
keeping an eye on that.


I suspect something more like our own internet map server (or set of  
servers) could be useful, so that the free map data that's available  
could be stored in such a way it could be displayed nicely and  
consistently.  An added bonus to this method would be that those of  
us who operate mobile/internet-less could duplicate the mapserver  
with our personal dataset.


True cross-platform compatibility. Should it be developed in Python  
or Java?


I'd say neither, as scripting/interpreted languages (Python) don't  
always scale well (there's a _lot_ of code in xastir).  Python  
doesn't appeal to me for another reason: minor version differences  
are incompatible with each other (ImageMagick, anyone?).  I've got a  
reasonably complex unix enterprise configuration, and python is a  
serious pain. Java seems to be a pig, performance-wise.


I'd like to see xastir remain fairly lightweight for mobile/portable  
applications.


Something like Qt (licensing issues again!) would be more desirable,  
IMO.  wxWidgets claims to be a similar open source cross-platform  
development toolkit, but I know nothing about it (other than the only  
time I tried to install on Solaris it wouldn't build without a fight).


Having said all that, I'll say this: it should be left up to the  
developers, as they'll be writing the code.  As long as the code  
meets user specs it doesn't matter what the implementation details are.


Some of the modularization ideas we've seen kicked around on this  
list leads me to think maybe that  after the inital release of v2,   
the UI module could fork, with different versions for windows, X11,  
and (my personal favorite) Mac OS.



I don't agree with us (the users) setting deadlines.  Again, the  
developers are doing the work, for free, on their own precious time.   
I'm pretty grateful for what we get out of 'em, especially under  
those conditions. (:


-Jason
kg4wsv


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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-04 Thread Gerry Creager


Stephen - K1LNX wrote:

Has there been a feature set discussed for Xastir 2.0?

Some things I think need improvement:

Maps, maps and more maps. We need the ability to use Google maps or our own
mapservers without a lot of configuration for customization. For the end
users such as myself, this would be invaluable. Try as I may, I have no
interest in dbfawks, other maptypes etc. I like to load a good looking map
and let the client do what it's supposed to (for me anyhow, I know people
use Xastir for LOTS of other things) and that is display APRS posits on
screen. Tiger maps just don't cut it for me, but as that is what I find to
be reliable, that's what I use.


KML is now in a formal standardization process within the Open 
Geospatial Consortium and on a fast-track.  I'm not writing anything 
more to KML 'til I see the result.  All Google's IP on KML has been 
turned over to OGC for this.  There are currently issues with the maps 
that Google uses with regard to their accuracy.  Near as I can tell, 
Google's doing pretty much everything right but some of the data they've 
acquired isn't as good as they've been told, or the metadata is just 
plain wrong.



True cross-platform compatibility. Should it be developed in Python or Java?
No more virtual machines for windows folks, even though we'd like them all
to be using linux, that's just not going to happen overnight and there will
always be die hard Windows and Mac fanatics.


Think of it as an upgrade path from Vista...


Evaluate the existing feature set in Xastir now and decide if anything can
be removed or improved upon.

If I had coding skills I would gladly contribute them, but I can at least
test :D


Time to learn...

gerry


Just throwing my thoughts out.

73
Stephen
K1LNX




On 10/4/07, James Ewen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Xastir currently is a functional piece of software that does a very
decent job of acting as an APRS client. It is in no way handicapped by
limited functionality.

What needs to happen, is that someone (in the development group) needs
to mark a line in the sand(s of time), and start development of Xastir
2.0.

New Year's Day is approaching, and it is always marked by resolutions,
promises, and new starts.

Why not set the date as a line in the sand? 2008 is the year of Xastir 2.0
.

If the project never gets started, it will never be more than a dream.

James
VE6SRV
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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-04 Thread Gerry Creager

New Years Day is post hurricane season.  I intend to have partied so 
hard the night before that the only resolution I'll make that day is to 
relearn my own name (I'm not able to take vacation this year (or last) 
during hurricane season... long and boring story).


Let's decide if it's worth doing now, as we've discussed it before and 
most all think it's a good idea.  If we're ready to start, let's do it 
sooner rather than later.  Putting something off for another 2.8 months 
isn't a great way to get it started.


gerry

James Ewen wrote:

Xastir currently is a functional piece of software that does a very
decent job of acting as an APRS client. It is in no way handicapped by
limited functionality.

What needs to happen, is that someone (in the development group) needs
to mark a line in the sand(s of time), and start development of Xastir
2.0.

New Year's Day is approaching, and it is always marked by resolutions,
promises, and new starts.

Why not set the date as a line in the sand? 2008 is the year of Xastir 2.0.

If the project never gets started, it will never be more than a dream.

James
VE6SRV
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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-04 Thread Gerry Creager


Tom Russo wrote:

On Thu, Oct 04, 2007 at 01:39:33PM -0500, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of 
the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing:

 On Oct 4, 2007, at 1:27 PM, William McKeehan wrote:


This would require Xastir having an "http" style
server that would serve up pages and would respond to certain queries with 
XML

code.

 Nice idea - this would be a reasonably easy interface for add-on tools.

 This makes me think of the Xastir version 2 database engine.  Developers, 
 any  thoughts on v2?


I have many thoughts --- not the least of which is "It's long overdue."  


My personal preference is that cool features like the one William proposes
are best done in a completely rewritten version of Xastir, one that is less
full of "creeping featurism" and more modularly and flexibly designed from the
start.  


You're old enough to know better:  That's "Feeping creaturism"


If there's ever any serious interest in getting that design started I would be
interested in participating, but have neither the time nor energy to kick-start
the effort myself.  Xastir2 has been a pipe dream trotted out every few months
since I first joined this list, and several developers have come and gone
waiting for a chance to help out with it.



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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-04 Thread Stephen - K1LNX

Has there been a feature set discussed for Xastir 2.0?

Some things I think need improvement:

Maps, maps and more maps. We need the ability to use Google maps or our own
mapservers without a lot of configuration for customization. For the end
users such as myself, this would be invaluable. Try as I may, I have no
interest in dbfawks, other maptypes etc. I like to load a good looking map
and let the client do what it's supposed to (for me anyhow, I know people
use Xastir for LOTS of other things) and that is display APRS posits on
screen. Tiger maps just don't cut it for me, but as that is what I find to
be reliable, that's what I use.

True cross-platform compatibility. Should it be developed in Python or Java?
No more virtual machines for windows folks, even though we'd like them all
to be using linux, that's just not going to happen overnight and there will
always be die hard Windows and Mac fanatics.

Evaluate the existing feature set in Xastir now and decide if anything can
be removed or improved upon.

If I had coding skills I would gladly contribute them, but I can at least
test :D

Just throwing my thoughts out.

73
Stephen
K1LNX

On 10/4/07, James Ewen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Xastir currently is a functional piece of software that does a very
> decent job of acting as an APRS client. It is in no way handicapped by
> limited functionality.
>
> What needs to happen, is that someone (in the development group) needs
> to mark a line in the sand(s of time), and start development of Xastir
> 2.0.
>
> New Year's Day is approaching, and it is always marked by resolutions,
> promises, and new starts.
>
> Why not set the date as a line in the sand? 2008 is the year of Xastir 2.0
> .
>
> If the project never gets started, it will never be more than a dream.
>
> James
> VE6SRV
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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-04 Thread James Ewen

Xastir currently is a functional piece of software that does a very
decent job of acting as an APRS client. It is in no way handicapped by
limited functionality.

What needs to happen, is that someone (in the development group) needs
to mark a line in the sand(s of time), and start development of Xastir
2.0.

New Year's Day is approaching, and it is always marked by resolutions,
promises, and new starts.

Why not set the date as a line in the sand? 2008 is the year of Xastir 2.0.

If the project never gets started, it will never be more than a dream.

James
VE6SRV
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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-04 Thread Gerry Creager

I can start a schema design in my spare time for postgis.  I'll 
circulate this soon.


Jason Winningham wrote:


On Oct 4, 2007, at 1:27 PM, William McKeehan wrote:


This would require Xastir having an "http" style
server that would serve up pages and would respond to certain queries 
with XML

code.


Nice idea - this would be a reasonably easy interface for add-on tools.

This makes me think of the Xastir version 2 database engine.  
Developers, any  thoughts on v2?


-Jason
kg4wsv


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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-04 Thread Tom Russo

On Thu, Oct 04, 2007 at 01:39:33PM -0500, we recorded a bogon-computron 
collision of the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> flavor, containing:
> 
>  On Oct 4, 2007, at 1:27 PM, William McKeehan wrote:
> 
> > This would require Xastir having an "http" style
> > server that would serve up pages and would respond to certain queries with 
> > XML
> > code.
> 
>  Nice idea - this would be a reasonably easy interface for add-on tools.
> 
>  This makes me think of the Xastir version 2 database engine.  Developers, 
>  any  thoughts on v2?

I have many thoughts --- not the least of which is "It's long overdue."  

My personal preference is that cool features like the one William proposes
are best done in a completely rewritten version of Xastir, one that is less
full of "creeping featurism" and more modularly and flexibly designed from the
start.  

If there's ever any serious interest in getting that design started I would be
interested in participating, but have neither the time nor energy to kick-start
the effort myself.  Xastir2 has been a pipe dream trotted out every few months
since I first joined this list, and several developers have come and gone
waiting for a chance to help out with it.

-- 
Tom RussoKM5VY   SAR502   DM64ux  http://www.swcp.com/~russo/
Tijeras, NM  QRPL#1592 K2#398  SOC#236 AHTB#1 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM
"And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is
 one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh,
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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-04 Thread Jason Winningham



On Oct 4, 2007, at 1:27 PM, William McKeehan wrote:


This would require Xastir having an "http" style
server that would serve up pages and would respond to certain  
queries with XML

code.


Nice idea - this would be a reasonably easy interface for add-on tools.

This makes me think of the Xastir version 2 database engine.   
Developers, any  thoughts on v2?


-Jason
kg4wsv


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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-10-04 Thread William McKeehan

Well, the last time we discussed this, I think this is where the discussion
ended (after we managed to get a piglatin translation added to the
repository).

I've been playing and thinking about this a fair amount. What about using
HTML/JavaScript/XML ala Ajax? This would require Xastir having an "http" style
server that would serve up pages and would respond to certain queries with XML
code. For example if Xastir's server were listening on port 8001,
http://localhost:8001/getStationInformation?callsignssid=KI4HDU-2 would
respond with something like

KI4HDU-2
75
10/04/2007 14:05:08

10/04 14:05 : .open2300v1.10
10/04 14:00 :

.
.
.

Other things like
http://localhost:8001/findStation?callsignssid=KI4HDU-2&exact=1 would cause
the UI to behave as if someone had used the "Station-> Find Station" dialog
box.

To facilitate this, we could provide an Xastir "Object" in JavaScript that
would handle most of the heavy lifting here's a rough (very) start...

function XastirObject() {
this.myConn=null;
this.getStationInformation=getStationInformation;
this.findStation=findStation;

this.myConn = new XHConn();
if (!this.myConn) alert("XMLHTTP not available.");
if (!this.myConn) return;
}

function findStation(CallsignSSID) {
this.getStation(CallsignSSID, xastirFindStation);
}

function xastirFindStation(oXML) {
var xml = oXML.responseXML;
alert( oXML.responseText );
var station = xml.getElementsByTagName( 'station' )[0].firstChild;

var newStation = new station();
newStation.CallsignSSID = 
station.getElementsByTagName('name')[0].firstChild;
newStation.find();
}

function getStationInformation(CallsignSSID, fnToDo) {
   this.myConn.connect("http://localhost:8001/getStationInformation";, "POST",
"CallsignSSID=" + CallsignSSID, fnToDo);
}

function station() {
this.CallsignSSID = "";
this.find=find;
this.send=send;
return this;
}

function find() {
Alert("Ask Xastir to 'find' " + this.CallsignSSID + ".");
}

Does this sound like something that would be useful? Personally, I think this
would let people develop their own APRS "interface" using Xastir to do the
heavy lifting - and I think that if done correctly, this would eventually let
you run Xastir in a daemon mode and only use this interface if you wanted to.

I imagine that adding a simple http server to the code would be pretty
straight forward; the only question would be if that server would be able to
get the data to answer the queries with easily.

Thoughts?
-- 
William McKeehan
KI4HDU

On Wed, August 29, 2007 6:01 am, Carl Makin wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-08-28 at 09:56 -0400, William McKeehan wrote:
>> Has anyone thought about adding a scripting capability within Xastir?
>
>> I'm thinking about something like some VB script (or similar) that would
>> allow
>
> At the risk of getting serious. :)
>
> Lua
>
> http://www.lua.org/
>
> Lua is a powerful, fast, light-weight, embeddable scripting language.
>
> Lua combines simple procedural syntax with powerful data description
> constructs based on associative arrays and extensible semantics. Lua is
> dynamically typed, runs by interpreting bytecode for a register-based
> virtual machine, and has automatic memory management with incremental
> garbage collection, making it ideal for configuration, scripting, and
> rapid prototyping.
>
>
> Carl,
> vk1kcm
>
>
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>

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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-29 Thread Gerry Creager

I preferred the first.  Comments really should not be preserved but may 
require special parsing to make them less intelligible.


Curt, WE7U wrote:

A better version which preserves comment lines:


> cat PigLatin2.pl
#!/usr/bin/perl -n
if (m/^#/) { print; next; }
@pieces = split /\|/;
$pieces[1] =~ s/\b(qu|y(?=[^t])|[^\W\daeiouy]*)([a-z']+)/$2.($1||w).ay/eg;
print join '|', @pieces;


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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-29 Thread Carl Makin

On Tue, 2007-08-28 at 09:56 -0400, William McKeehan wrote:
> Has anyone thought about adding a scripting capability within Xastir?

> I'm thinking about something like some VB script (or similar) that would allow

At the risk of getting serious. :)

Lua

http://www.lua.org/

Lua is a powerful, fast, light-weight, embeddable scripting language. 

Lua combines simple procedural syntax with powerful data description
constructs based on associative arrays and extensible semantics. Lua is
dynamically typed, runs by interpreting bytecode for a register-based
virtual machine, and has automatic memory management with incremental
garbage collection, making it ideal for configuration, scripting, and
rapid prototyping.

Carl,
vk1kcm

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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread Curt, WE7U


A better version which preserves comment lines:


> cat PigLatin2.pl
#!/usr/bin/perl -n
if (m/^#/) { print; next; }
@pieces = split /\|/;
$pieces[1] =~ s/\b(qu|y(?=[^t])|[^\W\daeiouy]*)([a-z']+)/$2.($1||w).ay/eg;
print join '|', @pieces;


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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread Curt, WE7U



  > cat PigLatin.pl
  #!/usr/bin/perl

  while ( <> ) {
@pieces = split /\|/;
$pieces[1] =~ s/\b(qu|y(?=[^t])|[^\W\daeiouy]*)([a-z']+)/$2.($1||w).ay/eg;
print join '|', @pieces;
  }


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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread Curt, WE7U

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, Curt, WE7U wrote:

> Pig latin Perl (Erl-Pay) code:
>
> 

Check out the 60-char regular expression on that page.  How easy
would it be to write a 4-line Perl script that takes a file on
STDIN, splits up each sentence that's not a comment into its various
components, runs the regexp on the text portion, then joins it back
and writes to STDOUT?

Who's going to be first?  It's a coffee-break sort of problem
time-wise:

#!/usr/bin/perl
@pieces = split;
$pieces[?] =~ regexp;
print join(@pieces);

Is that right?  Something like that anyway, with the 60-char regexp
thrown in instead of "regexp" and the '?' changed to the proper
index.

Run it like this:

./PigLatin.pl < language-English.sys > language-PigLatin.sys

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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread Curt, WE7U

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, Curt, WE7U wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, Curt, WE7U wrote:
>
> > I think this stuff should be fun.  To me, that would make it more
> > fun.  Silly is ok sometimes.
>
>
> Klingon->English & English->Klingon:
>
>
> 
>
>
> Then people are going to ask for Romulan and Vulcan translations too
> I suppose:
>
>
>   "The Universal Translator Assistant Project
>
>   using the technology of today to bring the theories of yesterday
>   to the languages of tomorrow"
>
>
> 


Pig latin Perl (Erl-Pay) code:



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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread Curt, WE7U

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, Curt, WE7U wrote:

> Anyone know if languages like "Esperanto" are used or at least
> understood by any target audience?  That might be a good next target
> for adding to Xastir if so.

Found these, which might be of use:


INTERNET WORLD USERS BY LANGUAGE:




Most Widely Spoken Languages in the World:



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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread Curt, WE7U

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, Curt, WE7U wrote:

> I think this stuff should be fun.  To me, that would make it more
> fun.  Silly is ok sometimes.


Klingon->English & English->Klingon:





Then people are going to ask for Romulan and Vulcan translations too
I suppose:


  "The Universal Translator Assistant Project

  using the technology of today to bring the theories of yesterday
  to the languages of tomorrow"





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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread Curt, WE7U

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, Steve Huston wrote:

> KLINGON!
>
> (Sorry, I feared my Geek card would be revoked if I didn't try it.)

If someone wants to translate the English language file to Klingon,
expending all that effort to do it, and volunteers to keep new
sentences up-to-date as they get added to CVS:  I'd have no
objection to adding that language.  Some of the other developers
might though, which I'd have to respect.

I think this stuff should be fun.  To me, that would make it more
fun.  Silly is ok sometimes.

We'd of course have to make a big statement on APRSSIG that we're
the only APRS client program to support it...

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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread Steve Huston

On 08/28/2007 02:40 PM, Curt, WE7U wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, Curt, WE7U wrote:
>> It should be a simple task to write an erl-pay script to process
>> the English language file to create an ig-pay atin-lay version.
> Anyone know if languages like "Esperanto" are used or at least
> understood by any target audience?  That might be a good next target
> for adding to Xastir if so.

KLINGON!

(Sorry, I feared my Geek card would be revoked if I didn't try it.)

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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread Curt, WE7U

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, Curt, WE7U wrote:

> It should be a simple task to write an erl-pay script to process
> the English language file to create an ig-pay atin-lay version.
>
> Then the big question would be:  Would any of the developers check
> it into CVS and modify the language flag to allow it?

Anyone know if languages like "Esperanto" are used or at least
understood by any target audience?  That might be a good next target
for adding to Xastir if so.

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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread Curt, WE7U

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, Jason Winningham wrote:

> While I'm at it, here's my request for ig-pay atin-lay language support.

It should be a simple task to write an erl-pay script to process
the English language file to create an ig-pay atin-lay version.

Then the big question would be:  Would any of the developers check
it into CVS and modify the language flag to allow it?

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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread Curt, WE7U

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, Jason Winningham wrote:

> On Aug 28, 2007, at 10:35 AM, Gerry Creager wrote:
>
> > Of course, we could obfuscate this a bit...
>
> okay, let's call our new scripting language erl-pay.
>
> While I'm at it, here's my request for ig-pay atin-lay language support.

Too
   Much
  Caffeine

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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread Gerry Creager


You have to do the translations.  I'm hardpressed to read English anymore!

Jason Winningham wrote:


On Aug 28, 2007, at 10:35 AM, Gerry Creager wrote:


Of course, we could obfuscate this a bit...


okay, let's call our new scripting language erl-pay.

While I'm at it, here's my request for ig-pay atin-lay language support.

-Jason
kg4wsv




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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread Jason Winningham



On Aug 28, 2007, at 10:35 AM, Gerry Creager wrote:


Of course, we could obfuscate this a bit...


okay, let's call our new scripting language erl-pay.

While I'm at it, here's my request for ig-pay atin-lay language support.

-Jason
kg4wsv


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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread Richard Polivka

Eschew obfuscation assiduously...

73 from 807,

Richard, N6NKO


Gerry Creager <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Of course, we could obfuscate this a 
bit...

Richard Polivka wrote:
> Age before beauty perl before python???
> (duck)
> 
> 73 from 807,
> 
> Richard, N6NKO
> 
> */Gerry Creager /* wrote:
> 
> Argh. Not VBscript! XML? perl?
> 
> William McKeehan wrote:
>  > Has anyone thought about adding a scripting capability within Xastir?
>  >
>  > I'm thinking about something like some VB script (or similar)
> that would allow
>  > a relatively non-developer to create little applications which
> lets Xastir do
>  > the heavy lifting.
>  >
>  > An example of the type of thing that I'm thinking about would be
> keeping track
>  > of how many runners have pasted a particular point. An Xastir
> station at that
>  > particular point would execute this script which would prompt for
> a number.
>  > The user would enter a number and the script/Xastir would handle
> the rest. The
>  > rest could be creating and sending a message to the NCS station
> with the
>  > updated information or it could be creating an object using this
> information.
>  >
>  > Am I off my rocker or is this an idea worth considering?
> 
> -- 
> Gerry Creager -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Texas Mesonet -- AATLT, Texas A&M University
> Cell: 979.229.5301 Office: 979.862.3982 FAX: 979.862.3983
> Office: 1700 Research Parkway Ste 160, TAMU, College Station, TX 77843
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> 

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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread William McKeehan

Any language that is simple enough for the basic user (and maybe one that
could eventually have a wizard in front of it), but is included in the build
of Xastir so that you create/manage the script in Xastir so it's portable to
any Xastir client (and a way to transmit the script over the air would he
REALLY sweet).

-- 
William McKeehan

On Tue, August 28, 2007 11:03 am, Gerry Creager wrote:
> Argh.  Not VBscript!  XML?  perl?
>
> William McKeehan wrote:
>> Has anyone thought about adding a scripting capability within Xastir?
>>
>> I'm thinking about something like some VB script (or similar) that would
>> allow
>> a relatively non-developer to create little applications which lets Xastir
>> do
>> the heavy lifting.
>>
>> An example of the type of thing that I'm thinking about would be keeping
>> track
>> of how many runners have pasted a particular point. An Xastir station at
>> that
>> particular point would execute this script which would prompt for a number.
>> The user would enter a number and the script/Xastir would handle the rest.
>> The
>> rest could be creating and sending a message to the NCS station with the
>> updated information or it could be creating an object using this
>> information.
>>
>> Am I off my rocker or is this an idea worth considering?
>
> --
> Gerry Creager -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Texas Mesonet -- AATLT, Texas A&M University
> Cell: 979.229.5301 Office: 979.862.3982 FAX: 979.862.3983
> Office: 1700 Research Parkway Ste 160, TAMU, College Station, TX 77843
>
>
>

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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread Gerry Creager


Of course, we could obfuscate this a bit...

Richard Polivka wrote:

Age before beauty perl before python???
(duck)

73 from 807,

Richard, N6NKO

*/Gerry Creager <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:

Argh. Not VBscript! XML? perl?

William McKeehan wrote:
 > Has anyone thought about adding a scripting capability within Xastir?
 >
 > I'm thinking about something like some VB script (or similar)
that would allow
 > a relatively non-developer to create little applications which
lets Xastir do
 > the heavy lifting.
 >
 > An example of the type of thing that I'm thinking about would be
keeping track
 > of how many runners have pasted a particular point. An Xastir
station at that
 > particular point would execute this script which would prompt for
a number.
 > The user would enter a number and the script/Xastir would handle
the rest. The
 > rest could be creating and sending a message to the NCS station
with the
 > updated information or it could be creating an object using this
information.
 >
 > Am I off my rocker or is this an idea worth considering?

-- 
Gerry Creager -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Texas Mesonet -- AATLT, Texas A&M University
Cell: 979.229.5301 Office: 979.862.3982 FAX: 979.862.3983
Office: 1700 Research Parkway Ste 160, TAMU, College Station, TX 77843

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Gerry Creager -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Texas Mesonet -- AATLT, Texas A&M University
Cell: 979.229.5301 Office: 979.862.3982 FAX: 979.862.3983
Office: 1700 Research Parkway Ste 160, TAMU, College Station, TX 77843

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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread Richard Polivka

Age before beauty perl before python???
(duck)

73 from 807,

Richard, N6NKO

Gerry Creager <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Argh.  Not VBscript!  XML?  perl?

William McKeehan wrote:
> Has anyone thought about adding a scripting capability within Xastir?
> 
> I'm thinking about something like some VB script (or similar) that would allow
> a relatively non-developer to create little applications which lets Xastir do
> the heavy lifting.
> 
> An example of the type of thing that I'm thinking about would be keeping track
> of how many runners have pasted a particular point. An Xastir station at that
> particular point would execute this script which would prompt for a number.
> The user would enter a number and the script/Xastir would handle the rest. The
> rest could be creating and sending a message to the NCS station with the
> updated information or it could be creating an object using this information.
> 
> Am I off my rocker or is this an idea worth considering?

-- 
Gerry Creager -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Texas Mesonet -- AATLT, Texas A&M University
Cell: 979.229.5301 Office: 979.862.3982 FAX: 979.862.3983
Office: 1700 Research Parkway Ste 160, TAMU, College Station, TX 77843

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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread Jason Winningham



On Aug 28, 2007, at 8:56 AM, William McKeehan wrote:


Has anyone thought about adding a scripting capability within Xastir?


We're on unix, so it's already there - it's called perl. (:

An example of the type of thing that I'm thinking about would be  
keeping track
of how many runners have pasted a particular point. An Xastir  
station at that
particular point would execute this script which would prompt for a  
number.
The user would enter a number and the script/Xastir would handle  
the rest. The
rest could be creating and sending a message to the NCS station  
with the
updated information or it could be creating an object using this  
information.


I could see this trivially handled in a perl script.  If there are  
electronic methods for counting, it would be easy to generate reports  
automatically (maybe as some sort of signpost object, with the number  
being the # of runners who have passed?)



Am I off my rocker or is this an idea worth considering?


I've got perl scripts that both generate and consume APRS data using  
xastir's server port.  I need to update the "generate" scripts to use  
xastir's UDP client program to make gating to RF easier.


-Jason
kg4wsv


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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread Stephen - K1LNX

I vote python!!!

On 8/28/07, Gerry Creager <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Argh.  Not VBscript!  XML?  perl?
>
> William McKeehan wrote:
> > Has anyone thought about adding a scripting capability within Xastir?
> >
> > I'm thinking about something like some VB script (or similar) that would
> allow
> > a relatively non-developer to create little applications which lets
> Xastir do
> > the heavy lifting.
> >
> > An example of the type of thing that I'm thinking about would be keeping
> track
> > of how many runners have pasted a particular point. An Xastir station at
> that
> > particular point would execute this script which would prompt for a
> number.
> > The user would enter a number and the script/Xastir would handle the
> rest. The
> > rest could be creating and sending a message to the NCS station with the
> > updated information or it could be creating an object using this
> information.
> >
> > Am I off my rocker or is this an idea worth considering?
>
> --
> Gerry Creager -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Texas Mesonet -- AATLT, Texas A&M University
> Cell: 979.229.5301 Office: 979.862.3982 FAX: 979.862.3983
> Office: 1700 Research Parkway Ste 160, TAMU, College Station, TX 77843
>
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>



-- 
Stephen Brown - ARS K1LNX
Johnson City, TN EM86uh
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Re: [Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread Gerry Creager


Argh.  Not VBscript!  XML?  perl?

William McKeehan wrote:

Has anyone thought about adding a scripting capability within Xastir?

I'm thinking about something like some VB script (or similar) that would allow
a relatively non-developer to create little applications which lets Xastir do
the heavy lifting.

An example of the type of thing that I'm thinking about would be keeping track
of how many runners have pasted a particular point. An Xastir station at that
particular point would execute this script which would prompt for a number.
The user would enter a number and the script/Xastir would handle the rest. The
rest could be creating and sending a message to the NCS station with the
updated information or it could be creating an object using this information.

Am I off my rocker or is this an idea worth considering?


--
Gerry Creager -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Texas Mesonet -- AATLT, Texas A&M University
Cell: 979.229.5301 Office: 979.862.3982 FAX: 979.862.3983
Office: 1700 Research Parkway Ste 160, TAMU, College Station, TX 77843

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[Xastir] Feature idea for Xastir

2007-08-28 Thread William McKeehan

Has anyone thought about adding a scripting capability within Xastir?

I'm thinking about something like some VB script (or similar) that would allow
a relatively non-developer to create little applications which lets Xastir do
the heavy lifting.

An example of the type of thing that I'm thinking about would be keeping track
of how many runners have pasted a particular point. An Xastir station at that
particular point would execute this script which would prompt for a number.
The user would enter a number and the script/Xastir would handle the rest. The
rest could be creating and sending a message to the NCS station with the
updated information or it could be creating an object using this information.

Am I off my rocker or is this an idea worth considering?
-- 
William McKeehan
KI4HDU
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