Re: [xubuntu-users] No indication of disk checks at login

[flocculant]

On 27/05/17 11:40, Chris Green wrote:

[snip]
16.04

Ok - was hoping it to be 16.10 - that had some white on the plymouth 
screen - not too good with white text.


I'd suggest reporting it then, could be that there is a Xubuntu specific 
issue going, in which case the bug might get re-routed to a different 
package.


From a terminal

ubuntu-bug plymouth

It might well be that there's something up locally - but I've no idea 
what - I've not seen any other reports of similar.




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Re: [xubuntu-users] No indication of disk checks at login

[Chris Green]

On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 07:11:10AM +0100, flocculant wrote:
> 
> 
> On 19/05/17 21:52, flocculant wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > On 17/05/17 13:26, Chris Green wrote:
> > > I used to get a (small) message on the pre-login screen when fsck disk
> > > checks were done automatically at start up.  These seem to have
> > > disappeared now.
> > > 
> > > Is this a bug?  It's really necessary for the system to say something
> > > as otherwise it simply looks as if the boot has hung for some reason
> > > and with big disks it can take a long time for the checks to complete.
> > > 
> > First - are you sure that fsck is running? You've not changed the fstab
> > options?
> > 
> > Secondly - I have 2 types of disk locally - ssd and hdd's - never really
> > notice fsck when it's checking on the ssd (unless I'm watching the
> > monitor at the time), but still see that on hdd's ( and did while
> > testing the last 4 releases - currently seeing it when it takes some
> > time on Artful)
> > 
> > If you haven't changed the options in fstab and fsck IS running -
> > perhaps set it to perform a check on next boot - and really watch the
> > monitor - just in case it's very quick. Then redo the fsck check - and
> > edit the kernel line so you've no quiet splash [1] - what you need to do
> > is remove the quiet splash from the linux line here, so you boot with
> > text - see what that says.
> > 
> > If you don't see anything on GUI - but do with text (and assuming here
> > that you've got hdd and not ssd - with no errors) I'd say that was a
> > bug.
> > 
> > regards
> > 
> > 
> > [1]
> > https://askubuntu.com/questions/19486/how-do-i-add-a-kernel-boot-parameter
> > 
> Forgot to ask what version of Xubuntu this is?
> 
16.04

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Re: [xubuntu-users] No indication of disk checks at login

[fred roller]

On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Peter Flynn  wrote:

> There are long pauses with a blank screen and no message.


This part I can agree with on any software.  Long pauses without a
indication of activity, especially if you are used to less than a second or
two pause in any process... even the simplest of cues, like "thinking...",
are nice.
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Re: [xubuntu-users] No indication of disk checks at login

[Peter Flynn]

On 26 May 2017 10:50:30 Chris Green  wrote:


The default is every 24 reboots isn't it, hardly "extreme rarity".


But the point isn't how frequently it's configured, it's the fact that it 
doesn't tell the user AT ALL TIMES what it's doing. There are long pauses 
with a blank screen and no message. I can video this happening if no-one 
believes it. *I* don't worry; I'm used to it. But I'd hate to be a new 
Xubuntu user — it would put me off Linux for life.


Peter



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Re: [xubuntu-users] No indication of disk checks at login

[Chris Green]

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 05:02:20PM +0100, Peter Flynn wrote:
> On 05/20/2017 06:05 PM, Chris Green wrote:
> > [..]
> > But you *still* haven't actually understood my problem!  :-)
> 
> Don't fret :-) It has sometimes taken me a year or more to make myself
> plain...
> 
> > In the past (i.e. previous xubuntu installations) whenever the system
> > decided it was time to do a disk check automatically it would do the
> > disk check *and* put a message up on the GUI to say what was
> > happening.  This no longer seems to happen, the system just displays
> > the xubuntu logo for a *very* long time (if it's my 3Tb disk being
> > checked) with no indication as to why it appears to be doing nothing.
> 
> That's the key. The boot process no longer tells the user what's going on.
> 
> Part of the problem is that the "old" method basically scrolled a
> console log of what went into dmesg, and this was putting new users off,
> who just wanted to see a logo while it booted.
> 
No, it always used to put a message up *on the GUI*, I'm not talking
about messages on the text mode console.

> Like most cosmetic changes, it has gone too far and now te
> lls the user absolutely nothing at all. The correct solution is probably
> some way between these two extremes.
> 
> > Mine is a fast modern machine but it still takes a *long* time for
> > fsck to check a 3Tb disk drive - like 20 or 30 minutes.
> 
> I think the point being made earlier (which misled some readers into
> thinking that fsck was the topic) was that fsck should be an extreme
> rarity, something that only happens when the machine has been shut down
> suddenly, or on a scheduled but very sparse timescale. Yes, 3TB will
> take a long time, but for the output to be suppressed (by initrd?) is a
> poor design choice and should be reversed.
> 
The default is every 24 reboots isn't it, hardly "extreme rarity".

> On 05/21/2017 01:56 PM, Joao Monteiro wrote:
> > One sure way I have learnt to check if the system is hung or just
> > slowly mawling whatever it is doing, is by looking at the Hard Disk
> > indicator light on the machine;
> 
> Good advice...if the system has one. Increasingly, these are no longer
> being fitted. Which makes it all the more important that the boot
> process tells the user what it's doing AT ALL TIMES, not just when
> something long is expected.
> 
Not really very useful, I've had hardware faults that leave the disk
activity light on.

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Re: [xubuntu-users] No indication of disk checks at login

[Joao Monteiro]

Two cents from a newbie who has nevertheless years of similar pains from
microsoft...

One sure way I have learnt to check if the system is hung or just slowly
mawling whatever it is doing, is by looking at the Hard Disk indicator
light on the machine; when the system hungs, the light stays dead, off. But
if it is just a slow processing, the light blunks or stays on accordingly.

Chris, I fully understand and feel your frustration, but take it easy
mate... you won't find more helpful or friendly crews anywhere than in
linux communities like this one. And consider also that we all have
different ways and ability to communicate what we wish to pass on.

Not telling you off mate, mind you, not at all... just saying, be patient
because you can rest assured that whatever the bugs that we come accross
might be, someone in here will sooner or later find a fix for it and post
it for all to use.

You're in the best place in the internet world that you could be, help
wise... trust me, I have been all over ripping off my hairs at times lol...

Kind Regards

Joao

On 19 May 2017 19:35, "Istimsak Abdulbasir"  wrote:

>
>
> On May 19, 2017 8:47 AM, "Chris Green"  wrote:
>
> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 06:54:01AM -0400, Istimsak Abdulbasir wrote:
> > dumpe2fs should tell how many times the disk was mounted. This may
> >give an indication of when fsck will run again.
>
> I DON'T CARE WHEN IT WILL RUN AGAIN!   :-)
>
> I just want the warning message in the GUI to appear when it *does*
> run so that I won't think something has gone wrong and hung the system
> boot process.
>
> --
> Chris Green
>
>
> I am just trying to help don't get edgy. If the system detects an error on
> one of your drives which fsck has to fix, then it will notify you. If there
> are no issues then nothing will be notified.
>
>
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Re: [xubuntu-users] No indication of disk checks at login

[Chris Green]

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 02:35:15PM -0400, Istimsak Abdulbasir wrote:
>On May 19, 2017 8:47 AM, "Chris Green" <[1]c...@isbd.net> wrote:
> 
>On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 06:54:01AM -0400, Istimsak Abdulbasir wrote:
>> dumpe2fs should tell how many times the disk was mounted. This
>may
>>give an indication of when fsck will run again.
> 
>  I DON'T CARE WHEN IT WILL RUN AGAIN!   :-)
>  I just want the warning message in the GUI to appear when it *does*
>  run so that I won't think something has gone wrong and hung the
>  system
>  boot process.
>  --
>  Chris Green
> 
>I am just trying to help don't get edgy. If the system detects an error
>on one of your drives which fsck has to fix, then it will notify you.
>If there are no issues then nothing will be notified.
> 
But you *still* haven't actually understood my problem!  :-)

In the past (i.e. previous xubuntu installations) whenever the system
decided it was time to do a disk check automatically it would do the
disk check *and* put a message up on the GUI to say what was
happening.  This no longer seems to happen, the system just displays
the xubuntu logo for a *very* long time (if it's my 3Tb disk being
checked) with no indication as to why it appears to be doing nothing.

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Re: [xubuntu-users] No indication of disk checks at login

[flocculant]

On 17/05/17 13:26, Chris Green wrote:

I used to get a (small) message on the pre-login screen when fsck disk
checks were done automatically at start up.  These seem to have
disappeared now.

Is this a bug?  It's really necessary for the system to say something
as otherwise it simply looks as if the boot has hung for some reason
and with big disks it can take a long time for the checks to complete.

First - are you sure that fsck is running? You've not changed the fstab 
options?


Secondly - I have 2 types of disk locally - ssd and hdd's - never really 
notice fsck when it's checking on the ssd (unless I'm watching the 
monitor at the time), but still see that on hdd's ( and did while 
testing the last 4 releases - currently seeing it when it takes some 
time on Artful)


If you haven't changed the options in fstab and fsck IS running - 
perhaps set it to perform a check on next boot - and really watch the 
monitor - just in case it's very quick. Then redo the fsck check - and 
edit the kernel line so you've no quiet splash [1] - what you need to do 
is remove the quiet splash from the linux line here, so you boot with 
text - see what that says.


If you don't see anything on GUI - but do with text (and assuming here 
that you've got hdd and not ssd - with no errors) I'd say that was a bug.


regards


[1] 
https://askubuntu.com/questions/19486/how-do-i-add-a-kernel-boot-parameter


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Re: [xubuntu-users] No indication of disk checks at login

[Peter Flynn]

On 05/19/2017 01:46 PM, Chris Green wrote:
> I just want the warning message in the GUI to appear when it *does* 
> run so that I won't think something has gone wrong and hung the
> system boot process.

This and several related pauses during boot have been the subject of
repeated questions over many years.

I think part of the problem is that they are not seen by many developers
and testers [rightly] using fast, modern machines. On older and slower
machines it is a serious problem, especially if you are trying to
convert a new user.

Long pauses and blank screens are VERY frequent during boot on old
machines. It would be very useful if this could be avoided -- even a
text-only message explaining what it's doing would help.

///Peter


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Re: [xubuntu-users] No indication of disk checks at login

[Istimsak Abdulbasir]

On May 19, 2017 8:47 AM, "Chris Green"  wrote:

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 06:54:01AM -0400, Istimsak Abdulbasir wrote:
> dumpe2fs should tell how many times the disk was mounted. This may
>give an indication of when fsck will run again.

I DON'T CARE WHEN IT WILL RUN AGAIN!   :-)

I just want the warning message in the GUI to appear when it *does*
run so that I won't think something has gone wrong and hung the system
boot process.

--
Chris Green


I am just trying to help don't get edgy. If the system detects an error on
one of your drives which fsck has to fix, then it will notify you. If there
are no issues then nothing will be notified.


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Re: [xubuntu-users] No indication of disk checks at login

[Chris Green]

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 06:54:01AM -0400, Istimsak Abdulbasir wrote:
> dumpe2fs should tell how many times the disk was mounted. This may
>give an indication of when fsck will run again.

I DON'T CARE WHEN IT WILL RUN AGAIN!   :-)

I just want the warning message in the GUI to appear when it *does*
run so that I won't think something has gone wrong and hung the system
boot process.

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Re: [xubuntu-users] No indication of disk checks at login

[Istimsak Abdulbasir]

On May 18, 2017 2:37 AM, "Chris Green"  wrote:

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 04:33:25PM -0400, Istimsak Abdulbasir wrote:
>On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 8:26 AM, Chris Green <[1]c...@isbd.net> wrote:
>
>  I used to get a (small) message on the pre-login screen when fsck
>  disk
>  checks were done automatically at start up.  These seem to have
>  disappeared now.
>  Is this a bug?  It's really necessary for the system to say
>  something
>  as otherwise it simply looks as if the boot has hung for some reason
>  and with big disks it can take a long time for the checks to
>  complete.
>
>
>As the system is booting, hitting the esc button shows a text-based
>screen that allows the user to when the system is doing while it is
>booting. During those activities, there is no indication of fsck on
>disks?

Not sure.


>fsck is configured by default to check disks for error every 30th mount
>or so. Then it does nothing until it hits that interval. Perhaps, your
>system already reached the 30th mark, in which case, it has to wait
>another 30 mounts to run again.
>This ability can be disabled or tweaked at the users end. Search the
>man pages for a program called "tune2fs" or read this forum link.
>[2]https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/239709/how-to-stop-filesyst
>em-check-fsck-on-boot
>
Yes, I know all this, I don't want to disable the fsck, I just want to
know when it's doing it (and maybe have the option to abort it), these
options used to appear on the GUI before login.


--
Chris Green


 dumpe2fs should tell how many times the disk was mounted. This may give an
indication of when fsck will run again.

Will have to do some research as to what kernel or init parameters enables
fsck to run when it detects disk errors. I do recall this use to happen to
me whenever my system was improperly shutdown. Just need to find what
triggers it.


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Re: [xubuntu-users] No indication of disk checks at login

[Istimsak Abdulbasir]

On May 17, 2017 4:48 PM, "Cody Smith"  wrote:

Though depending on the system, that escape key will simply pause the boot
animation, I know it does on my system, still trying to pin why and what
causes it.


Well that's something to keep in mind. Never experienced that


On May 17, 2017 1:33 PM, "Istimsak Abdulbasir"  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 8:26 AM, Chris Green  wrote:
>
>> I used to get a (small) message on the pre-login screen when fsck disk
>> checks were done automatically at start up.  These seem to have
>> disappeared now.
>>
>> Is this a bug?  It's really necessary for the system to say something
>> as otherwise it simply looks as if the boot has hung for some reason
>> and with big disks it can take a long time for the checks to complete.
>>
>> --
>> Chris Green
>>
>
> As the system is booting, hitting the esc button shows a text-based screen
> that allows the user to when the system is doing while it is booting.
> During those activities, there is no indication of fsck on disks?
>
> fsck is configured by default to check disks for error every 30th mount or
> so. Then it does nothing until it hits that interval. Perhaps, your system
> already reached the 30th mark, in which case, it has to wait another 30
> mounts to run again.
>
> This ability can be disabled or tweaked at the users end. Search the man
> pages for a program called "tune2fs" or read this forum link.
> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/239709/how-to-stop-
> filesystem-check-fsck-on-boot
>
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>
>
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