Re: [ydl-gen] Linux yellow dog manual for dummies
You may want to know that you may find decent parts for your system from http://macsales.com/ I think we may have to really keep our PowerPC running for longer than that although I did hear of someone developing a multicore PowerPC laptop a month or so ago. I've got to search for who this fellow is again as I lost track, but I did hear of a fellow who created a working Cell based laptop which ran the GameOS and had the OtherOS option. Pretty neat! Caveat: If you replace the power supply or other support parts you shouldn't have trouble running YDL from it. Be careful regarding other components however such as DVD drives: if those go it may be wiser to consider an external DVD drive in that situation. I'm unsure if anyone we knew remains at Fixstars from TSS; it may not be so easy to get the kind of support we became accustomed to. In any case, I'd advise you to consider reviewing what notations remain regarding their advisories regarding which hardware works with YDL and which do not. As best I recall, the past emphasis (by TSS) was to support original Apple parts. So the problems to watch for may not be RAM as much as internal associated devices, such as a newer hard drive or modem or something similar. It may be better to just get an HD which resides on a PCI card which your system should recognize with no problem as an external system; I don't think such a drive would be able to be booted from within YDL. It would be interesting to try that out as a concept though. Anyway enjoy and all the best!! On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 13:57:49 -0800 Warren Nagourney wrote: > Thanks, Derick. I still love the PPC architecture and recently > bought an Apple dual core 2.3 GHz G5 for very little money and am > finding it to be absolutely as fast as I could ever hope for. I will > keep it for the next 3-5 years (assuming I can keep the power supply > running) and maybe then, the dominance of x86 may have lessened (it > can't last forever!). > > Merry Christmas and Happy 2010, > > Warren N = Refranes/Popular sayings: The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga. There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom. signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general@lists.fixstars.com Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to Google archives, try 'site:us.fixstars.com'
Re: [ydl-gen] Linux yellow dog manual for dummies
Thanks, Derick. I still love the PPC architecture and recently bought an Apple dual core 2.3 GHz G5 for very little money and am finding it to be absolutely as fast as I could ever hope for. I will keep it for the next 3-5 years (assuming I can keep the power supply running) and maybe then, the dominance of x86 may have lessened (it can't last forever!). Merry Christmas and Happy 2010, Warren N On Dec 24, 2009, at 1:44 PM, Derick Centeno wrote: Good to hear from you Warren!! It's been a long time!! Glad you liked my analogy. I wasn't aware of IBM's announcement. I guess we are the lucky ones who got these marvelous computers while they could be had. Too bad others won't have the opportunity to explore and develop varied programming skills which these systems allow. You are not alone in considering how dull the modern environment is. Unfortunately, we've become like that tiny core of professionals who served with Henry II at the Battle of Agincourt mentioned by none other than Shakespeare -- "We few, we happy few..." I would have liked to have had more people experience gaining from the skill of working with these systems. But if the hardware isn't available then that's pretty much it, unless one chooses to get gouged on ebay. Well, Warren, have a wonderful celebration of the holidays and a most splendid New Year!! Likewise to all who are here!!! On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:46:10 -0800 Warren Nagourney wrote: I might also add that, due to recent announcements from IBM, the future of the Cell processor is in doubt. In November, IBM announced that it was canceling the next iteration of the Cell, the one with 32 SPE cores. I would therefore hesitate in investing any time in learning Cell programming. As a result of IBM's announcement, there was a flurry of talk on tech- savvy sites (such as ars technica) about the end of the Cell and since IBM made no attempt to refute these inferences, I can only assume that they are phasing out the Cell. Too bad, as it is the only interesting computer architecture I have seen in a while. I like your simile likening Intel architecture to the rebending of a paper clip, Derick! The dominance of computing by one architecture makes the whole (hardware) enterprise fairly dull, in my opinion. Cheers, Warren Nagourney = Refranes/Popular sayings: The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga. There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom. ___ yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general@lists.fixstars.com Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to Google archives, try 'site:us.fixstars.com' ___ yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general@lists.fixstars.com Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to Google archives, try ' site:us.fixstars.com'
Re: [ydl-gen] Linux yellow dog manual for dummies
Good to hear from you Warren!! It's been a long time!! Glad you liked my analogy. I wasn't aware of IBM's announcement. I guess we are the lucky ones who got these marvelous computers while they could be had. Too bad others won't have the opportunity to explore and develop varied programming skills which these systems allow. You are not alone in considering how dull the modern environment is. Unfortunately, we've become like that tiny core of professionals who served with Henry II at the Battle of Agincourt mentioned by none other than Shakespeare -- "We few, we happy few..." I would have liked to have had more people experience gaining from the skill of working with these systems. But if the hardware isn't available then that's pretty much it, unless one chooses to get gouged on ebay. Well, Warren, have a wonderful celebration of the holidays and a most splendid New Year!! Likewise to all who are here!!! On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:46:10 -0800 Warren Nagourney wrote: > I might also add that, due to recent announcements from IBM, the > future of the Cell processor is in doubt. In November, IBM announced > that it was canceling the next iteration of the Cell, the one with > 32 SPE cores. I would therefore hesitate in investing any time in > learning Cell programming. > > As a result of IBM's announcement, there was a flurry of talk on > tech- savvy sites (such as ars technica) about the end of the Cell > and since IBM made no attempt to refute these inferences, I can only > assume that they are phasing out the Cell. Too bad, as it is the only > interesting computer architecture I have seen in a while. I like your > simile likening Intel architecture to the rebending of a paper clip, > Derick! The dominance of computing by one architecture makes the > whole (hardware) enterprise fairly dull, in my opinion. > > Cheers, > > Warren Nagourney > = Refranes/Popular sayings: The Taino say:No hay mal que por bien no venga. There is no evil out of which good cannot blossom. signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general@lists.fixstars.com Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to Google archives, try 'site:us.fixstars.com'
Re: [ydl-gen] Linux yellow dog manual for dummies
I might also add that, due to recent announcements from IBM, the future of the Cell processor is in doubt. In November, IBM announced that it was canceling the next iteration of the Cell, the one with 32 SPE cores. I would therefore hesitate in investing any time in learning Cell programming. As a result of IBM's announcement, there was a flurry of talk on tech- savvy sites (such as ars technica) about the end of the Cell and since IBM made no attempt to refute these inferences, I can only assume that they are phasing out the Cell. Too bad, as it is the only interesting computer architecture I have seen in a while. I like your simile likening Intel architecture to the rebending of a paper clip, Derick! The dominance of computing by one architecture makes the whole (hardware) enterprise fairly dull, in my opinion. Cheers, Warren Nagourney On Dec 24, 2009, at 12:27 PM, Derick Centeno wrote: On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:09:48 +1100 Robert Spykerman wrote: On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 2:23 AM, Derick Centeno wrote: ...snip... Be sure to use the YDL Board as a resource so that you "meet" other PS3 users like yourself, as well as others who program using YDL on various hardware systems. There's a lot a good people there who can help you move forward a lot faster than you going it solo. I completely agree. There are not many online forums for YDL - I believe this mailing list and the YDL board http://www.yellowdog-board.com/ are the only two specific ones. I am new to YDL too myself. I suspect not many people use it very much these days if traffic in these lists or the YDL board is anything to go by, at least relative to the traffic you can see on the ubuntu boards. You are quite right Robert, the traffic regarding PowerPC programming has changed quite a bit over the years. There had been a great deal of traffic here when Apple incorporated the PowerPC in it's computer hardware. When Apple switched to Intel there were many changes in the traffic here and then Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony developed game systems which incorporated not only the most advanced PowerPC system available to date (the Cell) but the most intensively powerful CPU available to consumers. Out of all these companies however only Sony allowed an option which allowed users to use and run YDL on their PS3s thereby turning what had been merely a game computer into the equivalent of a supercomputer available to forward looking consumers. Of course, not everyone who purchased the PS3 would be interested in hi-tech programming on the Cell but that potential was available as long as Sony allowed the OtherOS option to exist. With the OtherOS option all members of the family could not only play games but explore advanced technical areas ranging from introductory to advanced programming concepts of nearly every level of endeavor. The only comparison I can think of is imagining families with the PS3 being awarded a free perpetual opportunity to attend the most advanced computer labs at MIT or Stanford or Yale for their own personal exploration and use. The Cell is that flexible. However for various reasons Sony closed that potential when the Slim version of the PS3 was released while they almost simultaneously announced that no further PS3s would be produced with the OtherOS option which meant that only the previous generation PS3s with the OtherOS option would continue to be sold until the inventory was exhausted. This meant that although there would continue to be persons who ran YDL on PS3s that number would be finite and would not include anyone who purchased the PS3 Slim forward. Fixstars which produces YDL, runs on many PowerPC systems however fewer of these available systems exist at a price which consumers normally purchase between $200-$500. Fixstar's PowerStation for instance can be had for $1000+ and if one wants the Cell included with that there exists a PCI card which one can purchase fits into the PowerStation beginning at $6,000+. There will be lovers of hi-tech and professionals involved in programming advanced systems who will use YDL, YDEL, etc. which run on such PowerPC technologies which may be or become available but this is no longer the "family" or "consumer" priced systems which people have considered as reasonably affordable over during the years Apple or Sony sold their systems which means as well that fewer people will have experience with advanced computers. Intel technology is popular and common, but it is not based on radically new thinking as regards computer architecture. Intel rather is very astute in utilizing old architectures in radically new ways. As inventive as such approaches are in my thinking it is akin to considering how many ways a paper clip can bend. In fact, this is exactly why the modern market has developed into the weird reality we find ourselves in where Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony are vendors who each run the Cell in their own very powerful
Re: [ydl-gen] Linux yellow dog manual for dummies
On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:09:48 +1100 Robert Spykerman wrote: > On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 2:23 AM, Derick Centeno > wrote: ...snip... > > Be sure to use the YDL Board as a resource so that you "meet" other > > PS3 users like yourself, as well as others who program using YDL on > > various hardware systems. There's a lot a good people there who > > can help you move forward a lot faster than you going it solo. > > I completely agree. There are not many online forums for YDL - I > believe this mailing list and the YDL board > http://www.yellowdog-board.com/ are the only two specific ones. > > I am new to YDL too myself. I suspect not many people use it very much > these days if traffic in these lists or the YDL board is anything to > go by, at least relative to the traffic you can see on the ubuntu > boards. > You are quite right Robert, the traffic regarding PowerPC programming has changed quite a bit over the years. There had been a great deal of traffic here when Apple incorporated the PowerPC in it's computer hardware. When Apple switched to Intel there were many changes in the traffic here and then Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony developed game systems which incorporated not only the most advanced PowerPC system available to date (the Cell) but the most intensively powerful CPU available to consumers. Out of all these companies however only Sony allowed an option which allowed users to use and run YDL on their PS3s thereby turning what had been merely a game computer into the equivalent of a supercomputer available to forward looking consumers. Of course, not everyone who purchased the PS3 would be interested in hi-tech programming on the Cell but that potential was available as long as Sony allowed the OtherOS option to exist. With the OtherOS option all members of the family could not only play games but explore advanced technical areas ranging from introductory to advanced programming concepts of nearly every level of endeavor. The only comparison I can think of is imagining families with the PS3 being awarded a free perpetual opportunity to attend the most advanced computer labs at MIT or Stanford or Yale for their own personal exploration and use. The Cell is that flexible. However for various reasons Sony closed that potential when the Slim version of the PS3 was released while they almost simultaneously announced that no further PS3s would be produced with the OtherOS option which meant that only the previous generation PS3s with the OtherOS option would continue to be sold until the inventory was exhausted. This meant that although there would continue to be persons who ran YDL on PS3s that number would be finite and would not include anyone who purchased the PS3 Slim forward. Fixstars which produces YDL, runs on many PowerPC systems however fewer of these available systems exist at a price which consumers normally purchase between $200-$500. Fixstar's PowerStation for instance can be had for $1000+ and if one wants the Cell included with that there exists a PCI card which one can purchase fits into the PowerStation beginning at $6,000+. There will be lovers of hi-tech and professionals involved in programming advanced systems who will use YDL, YDEL, etc. which run on such PowerPC technologies which may be or become available but this is no longer the "family" or "consumer" priced systems which people have considered as reasonably affordable over during the years Apple or Sony sold their systems which means as well that fewer people will have experience with advanced computers. Intel technology is popular and common, but it is not based on radically new thinking as regards computer architecture. Intel rather is very astute in utilizing old architectures in radically new ways. As inventive as such approaches are in my thinking it is akin to considering how many ways a paper clip can bend. In fact, this is exactly why the modern market has developed into the weird reality we find ourselves in where Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony are vendors who each run the Cell in their own very powerful computing game systems but each system is "locked" in the sense that consumers cannot use Linux to utilize the flexibility of the Cell on any of these systems for themselves or their families. This is great for producing strictly advanced gaming computers however it is terrible for those who want to use those same computers as working systems or family based learning and research systems which run independently designed projects. In fact, families and individuals who purchase the Xbox, Wii and PS3 Slim now have to also purchase other computers as their work/research stations at home. The consumer is paying very much more than twice over all these purchases. A range of technical details exploring various views exists within the YDL Board for those who are interested in researching the topic. > As much as I hate saying this, you may want to check out Ubuntu as an > alternative for a beginn
Re: [ydl-gen] Linux yellow dog manual for dummies
On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 2:53 AM, Aaron Urbain wrote: > Read the gentoo wiki I would on one hand encourage the OP to try gentoo, as there is a lot to be learnt from doing it that way but on the other I would say that unfortunately for a beginner it may be better off learning about gentoo on the x86 where it is more error free and tested. By the way, the gentoo ppc handbook on the gentoo site will only partially work... The kernel on the liveCD from 'experimental' dates back to 2007 and is slightly incompatible with the current stage3. chroot into your new stage3 gentoo and run portage and the new chroot python/glibc on it will choke. If you want to do it this way, you will need to patch one of the python scripts that makes that offending glibc call in portage just to emerge and build the kernel, then boot with the new kernel. I can't remember which file it was in, but python will tell you where the bad call is, I just fed it the numbers it wanted and it worked. I would then undo that patch and proceed per normal gentoo install. Cheers Robert -- chown -R us ./base ___ yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general@lists.fixstars.com Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to Google archives, try 'site:us.fixstars.com'
