Re: [zbmethod] Ambitionlessness -
ok so should we start ? What about a method that solves Cross, then LL, then F2L... Weird... another idea ? :D Gilles 2007/1/19, Brent Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: think out of the box? Nah. We need to think out of the cube. :D yeh i agree. -bm *Gilles van den Peereboom [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: Yes I agree with you. Present results show that the pure CFOP method yields incredible results. Any change to this method will probably make it slower I think. Therefore we need to think out of the box and look for new ways of solving the cube. Gilles 2007/1/12, richy_jr_2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The group has been relatively mute for a while. The reasons why are many and varied, and I won't invest any time explaining as such. The problem in the inactivity is that it screams failure not only for the ZBmethod. It represents something far more important. This group represents a group of people that are willing to explore something new and innovative. I propose that we rename the group to relate the desire to explore new methods. I'm fairly certain this will raise the activity in this group, as well as giving cubers a good platform to discuss new things. No offense to anyone but the normal speedcubing group is quite possibly the worst medium available for discussing new approaches. I have talked to several people with method ideas that could inspire a major shift in traditional cubing -- Surely someone wants to play a role in this. Best Regards, Richard :) --Brent -- Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobilehttp://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mailand always stay connectedhttp://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mailto friends.
Re: [zbmethod] Ambitionlessness -
Recently I experienced a method that would orient all edges exept the LL edges so that F2L could be solved with only L U and R and thus no cube rotations. It hought that this would be useful, especially for OH-cubing but the way I orient the edges is not very powerful. I put as much non-oriented edges as I can on the F face, and then just do F to orient them. When I have 0, 1, 2, 3 or 4 misoriented adges, it's easy (if I have 3, the 4th would be a LL edge). If I have more, then I have a problem. Or I could rotate the cube because there are only 8 edges on F2L. So is 5 of them are misoriented, I just have to do y to have only 3 edges misoriented. But anyway, this takes a bit of time. :-( Gilles 2007/1/19, Mike Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I don't see how that would do much good. Solving cross first would still make a massive number of cases to try to solve the LL, and then the F2L would still have a ton. Perhaps Cross+F2L Edges only Corners ELL? Or even Edges Corners? Personally, I'd like to look into Orient Edges F2L minus final pair Final pair+influence or solve LL Corner Orientation Drastly reduced ZBLL. With multislotting, this becomes a very, very attractive method. I think the other route to go would be an L2L4 approach, where the beginning is simple and we are constantly making the later steps easier, while solving some other bit. I have the feeling that you can influence or even solve some of the later steps while placing the First layer corners, instead of just doing them alone, like in Duncan's method. Perhaps that's a source of improvement? Couple that with an X cross and you start having some extra potential. Block methods are another possible route to explore. I don't have too many specific ideas there, except possibly changing the definition of oriented during the orientation step of Petrus, so that you're left with a 2 gen finish. Any thoughts, anyone? -Mike On 1/19/07, Gilles van den Peereboom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ok so should we start ? What about a method that solves Cross, then LL, then F2L... Weird... another idea ? :D Gilles
[zbmethod] research progress
Hello, I'm surprised that there hasn't been any message on the research recently. Even though Chris went on holiday for 3 weeks, this doesn't mean we have to stop everything. I'm still searching for these H cases with the diagonals but at the moment I've found only one that I can perform under 3 seconds. Most of them are really complicated and even though I simplify them, I usually stay around 5 seconds. What are you guys working on ? Gilles. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [zbmethod] Re: Group A delegation
As for me, I'm really pleased with the no-CP cases that already exists. As most of them consists in a combination of 2 sune (or antisune, ..), these are really fast cases.Although I usually donc like to have many cube rotations during an alg so I rewrote some of Chris' T1 cases with U or U' so that I can execute them faster (I think I'm sub-3 on all these T1 cases.) Gilles.2005/12/14, Doug Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I was refering to H1 with no EP. That is, no CP and no EP. My current alg sucks. Help me find a better one. I'll have to post all of my H1 algs this weekend. -Doug --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, Bob Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For no edge permutation, you said you don't like that case? F (RUR'U')*3 F' 1.69 (2.39) 2.13 1.78 2.10 1.82 1.68 1.88 1.59 (1.56) 1.77 1.96 = 1.84 average. For 14 moves, that's 7.6 tps average. It is a very nice case. :) I started cube in hands, timing with stackmat. ~ Bob --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, Doug Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is H-Orientation with Diagonally swapped corners. It is a bit uncharted territory... hence it is not yet numbered. I was waiting for Chris to finish naming those cases. He told me he'd do this (all of them) over break. -Doug --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, Bob Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cases you have listed on that page...what # are they? ie - H1, H2, etc? ~ Bob --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den Peereboom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm aware that I haven't listed all the cases yet but these are the only one on which I've worked on at the moment and they still need to be improved. I'll add all the images later tonight so that you can see what's left to do with this case (which H case is it ? H2 or something else ?) And for the permutation image (not the 3D cube), do you have some sort of program or do you do them yourself in paint or something ? Thanks, Gilles. 2005/12/13, Doug Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This site seems to be issing some cases: http://www.belgiancubes.be/zbll/index.html There are typically 12 edge cases if you count mirrors and inverses. Give timings for these, and write them in trigger notation. I typically avoid taking a lead role in things, but since it's beeen rather quite and people are itching to do work I'm going to give some suggestions. Since Jason is working on T5, he could work on improving those algs and give us timings. Since Chris started work on U2, that is his territory. I have yet to get a reply about my L1 algs, I would especially appriciate it if DanH would give those a look since he asked about them a while ago. (Although I'm sure he's busy lately since he hasn't even posted his L1 list yet, on his site.) I am going to post my H1 algs next. In general look though the T-Orientation cases and see if there's a rather long one that can be beter executed. If anyone has other no CP algs (that are possiblity better than what we already have), now is a good time to post them. I would especially like revised T1 and U1 algs, since those seem to be the slowest no CP cases..., for me at least. If any of you want to work on unexplored territory, claim it first by posting here so that we don't have people working on the identical thing. Collaborate, Divide and Conquer! -Doug --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den Peereboom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As you are the only one who has had the leading position, could you describe what it consists in ? Another possibility is giving some homework to everyone for 3 weeks :p If Doug can get us a big list of raw algorithms (so we need to provide him a txt file with the cases), I'm sure we could have something to do for that period. What do you think ? Concerning my case, I'll have mid-terms exams in January so my time will be a bit limited from now on for zb-research. But I can surely find at least one hour per day to work on zb. I hope your exams will go well :-) Gilles. NB : I learned the entire VH-F2L today :p (not so hard, I agree. mostly intuitive algorithms) 2005/12/13, cmhardw [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hey everyone, I wanted to ask basically what we wanted to do as a group about the lead position, or group A. I honestly am willing to devote the time to any of the activities in our delegation, but I would love to help direct. I will have the free time after I
Re: [zbmethod] Group A delegation
As you are the only one who has had the leading position, could you describe what it consists in ?Another possibility is giving some homework to everyone for 3 weeks :pIf Doug can get us a big list of raw algorithms (so we need to provide him a txt file with the cases), I'm sure we could have something to do for that period. What do you think ?Concerning my case, I'll have mid-terms exams in January so my time will be a bit limited from now on for zb-research. But I can surely find at least one hour per day to work on zb. I hope your exams will go well :-)Gilles.NB : I learned the entire VH-F2L today :p (not so hard, I agree. mostly intuitive algorithms)2005/12/13, cmhardw [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hey everyone, I wanted to ask basically what we wanted to do as a group about the lead position, or group A. I honestly am willing to devote the time to any of the activities in our delegation, but I would love to help direct. I will have the free time after I graduate (I really do cube in all of my free time, so it won't be a big change). However, there is an issue. On Dec. 19 I am leaving for California to visit my Grandparents and won't be back until Jan. 6. During this time I won't have any access to the internet whatsoever. In this formative period of team [zb] I don't think it would be good for me to delegate, simply since I will be absent for roughly three weeks very shortly. I will take my laptop with me and analyze cases and optimize algs while I am gone though. My question is this, what should we do about the lead position? I would love to really be a part of this group and help each of the groups and try to do all of the group activities we need, but the truth is that I will be absent for three weeks very soon. So we need a lead, or preferably more than one in case the other is absent. I am more than willing to dedicate my time to team [zb] and would love to do so, but I simply cannot do that until after Jan. 6 next year. Who else wants to take over in a lead position and make sure the group is directed in a good direction? This organization is so awesome, and I am so excited to see us coming together into a real research team. I hope everyone has a good holiday, and in my free time between finals up until I leave I will try to do as much as I can. I will only be able to analyze cases and generate raw algs while on vacation, but after I return I will have the free time and the ability to fully dedicate myself to our effort. Let me know what everyone thinks, Chris SPONSORED LINKS Free puzzle games Computer puzzle game Puzzle games Jigsaw puzzle game Online puzzle games Free puzzle inlay games YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group zbmethod on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . SPONSORED LINKS Computer puzzle game Online puzzle games Puzzle games Free puzzle games Jigsaw puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "zbmethod" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [zbmethod] Re: Let's organize
Ok so :-)My webspace is open for that kind of work.I'm not a very good computer/internet code programmer but I think I could get something done by tomorrow. But Doug might do it better than I do.What exactly do we need ? I think a web interface which will make our work easily to view for people and easy to manage for us is the main goal.So basically we need some sort of form we can fill in which will automatically generate a page for the visitor. We need :1. Alg2. Image(s)3. Cube Applet - It might be long to load the page, especially if we have a long list of algorithms4. Comments5. TimeWhat else could we add to make our work more efficient and easier to read ? Gilles - ZB Research Team2005/12/12, cmhardw [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hey Gilles, Wow that website looks nice! Perhaps we can use it for where we post our raw algs and the ones we optimize also? I would also like to mirror our final choices on speedcubing.com under the algorithms seciton, but there's no reason whatsoever we can't have it on our working spaces too. Chris team [zb] P.S. Absolutely you can sign with team [zb] It's a self selecting group. If you feel you should be a member of team [zb] then you are a member of team [zb] and can sign with the tag :-D --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den Peereboom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I totally agree with that organisation :-) We should just wait a few days to have all the volunteers and start to organize it completely. I added a record to the database : today I worked on a few raw alg my computer found and I really liked working on them and turning them into trigger friendly and easy to execute algorithms. Here is what I have done today : www.belgiancubes.be/zbll (if it doesn't work today, it will probably tomorrow because it's a brand new domain name, the dns might not be spread all over the world yet) I'm excited by this zb thing. I just re-praciced the few T algorithms I learned a while ago, and I'm happy to see I haven't forgotten them :p Gilles. PS : can I sign with [team zb] after my name ? :p 2005/12/12, Mike Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED]: --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, cmhardw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: D- This group is responsible for optimizing raw sequences posted online by group B. Upon optimizing, this group will send their results to group B to be posted. Also, with the new variations that are coming up, I think we should handle those accordingly on the central website. Any alternative to ZBLL that includes ZBLL will need optimized algs, so perhaps we should start with those cases first in our optimization. If we can fill all the algs necessary for a variation of ZB with super nice algs, maybe we can bring the skeptics into the method by allowing them to try a superfast variation of ZB before committing to the whole method. Chris Team [ZB] Count me in to help optimize things, and work on various variations. I've already started working on learning Doug's cases to insert a cross piece, and I'm also working on placing the final 5 edges once oriented. Useful for my new method, and for if you forget a cross piece. I've a got a few other ideas in the works, but that's all I've got time for right now. Ready when you are, commander. -Mike team [zb] YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group zbmethod on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. SPONSORED LINKS Online puzzle games Free puzzle games Jigsaw puzzle game Puzzle games Computer puzzle game Free puzzle inlay games YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group zbmethod on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . SPONSORED LINKS Computer puzzle game Puzzle games Jigsaw puzzle game Online puzzle games Free puzzle games Free puzzle inlay games YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "zbmethod" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECT
