Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS versus VxFS as file system inside Netbackup 6.0 DSSU
Selim,
Symantec does support ZFS as DSSU targets. I've also seen a SUN white
paper outlining the use of Thumper (Sun X4500) as a NB 6.5 media server,
where the best practice was to to configure multiple NB disk storage
units to use a distinct ZFS file system. In this case, all the ZFS file
systems serving as DSSUs utilized one zpool.
Hope this helps,
Sri
Selim Daoud wrote:
unfortunately in this area, Symantec is not helping anyone. they even
take their time to officially include zfs in their compatibility lists
s-
On Jan 16, 2008 1:26 PM, Paul Kraus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Previous posts from various people:
But ... NBU (at least version 6.0) attempts to estimate the
size of the backup and make suer there is enough room on the DSSU to
handle it. What happens when the free space reported by ZFS isn't
really the free space ?
Regarding the question asked below namely What happens when the free
space reported by ZFS isn't really the free space ?, is there an open
bug for this ?
As others have said, not a ZFS bug, but a feature :-) Of
course, this behavior can be eliminated using ZFS reservations. My
comment was regarding the utility of using one ZFS pool to contain
MULTIPLE NBU Disk Stage Storage Units ... I just don't see the utility
there and I do see a downside.
The NetBackup server scans a backup client system,
It determines it will need 600gb of disk space on the disk store.
It stats the zfs volume and sees there is 700 gb free (enough for the
backup)
Starts writing 600gb over multiple hours.
in the meantime, 500gb is used elsewhere in the pool.
NetBackup Fails differently that on vmfs+vxvm in this case?
Isn't it NetBackups issue to make sure that it has reserved diskspace or at
least checks for space _as_ it writes?
If a disk stage fills during a backup (and there is nothing to
prevent another application from filling it either) it first triggers
DSSU garbage collection to remove the oldest backup images that have
already been duplicated to other storage, if that does not succeed in
freeing up enough space (and I have seen it trigger GC multiple
times), then I have observed two different behaviors (probably related
to differing patch versions):
1. backup fails with a 129 error
2. backup is continued on tape media
This latter 'solution' ends up creating a unusable backup
image as NBU now doesn't know how to deal with an image that crosses
storage units, but that is very off topic for this list :-)
My question was more toward how NBU will deal with the apparent
SIZE of the DSSU on ZFS changing on a frequent basis.
--
{1-2-3-4-5-6-7-}
Paul Kraus
- Sound Designer, Noel Coward's Hay Fever
@ Albany Civic Theatre, Feb./Mar. 2008
- Facilities Coordinator, Albacon 2008
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Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS versus VxFS as file system inside Netbackup 6.0 DSSU
Previous posts from various people:
But ... NBU (at least version 6.0) attempts to estimate the
size of the backup and make suer there is enough room on the DSSU to
handle it. What happens when the free space reported by ZFS isn't
really the free space ?
Regarding the question asked below namely What happens when the free
space reported by ZFS isn't really the free space ?, is there an open
bug for this ?
As others have said, not a ZFS bug, but a feature :-) Of
course, this behavior can be eliminated using ZFS reservations. My
comment was regarding the utility of using one ZFS pool to contain
MULTIPLE NBU Disk Stage Storage Units ... I just don't see the utility
there and I do see a downside.
The NetBackup server scans a backup client system,
It determines it will need 600gb of disk space on the disk store.
It stats the zfs volume and sees there is 700 gb free (enough for the
backup)
Starts writing 600gb over multiple hours.
in the meantime, 500gb is used elsewhere in the pool.
NetBackup Fails differently that on vmfs+vxvm in this case?
Isn't it NetBackups issue to make sure that it has reserved diskspace or at
least checks for space _as_ it writes?
If a disk stage fills during a backup (and there is nothing to
prevent another application from filling it either) it first triggers
DSSU garbage collection to remove the oldest backup images that have
already been duplicated to other storage, if that does not succeed in
freeing up enough space (and I have seen it trigger GC multiple
times), then I have observed two different behaviors (probably related
to differing patch versions):
1. backup fails with a 129 error
2. backup is continued on tape media
This latter 'solution' ends up creating a unusable backup
image as NBU now doesn't know how to deal with an image that crosses
storage units, but that is very off topic for this list :-)
My question was more toward how NBU will deal with the apparent
SIZE of the DSSU on ZFS changing on a frequent basis.
--
{1-2-3-4-5-6-7-}
Paul Kraus
- Sound Designer, Noel Coward's Hay Fever
@ Albany Civic Theatre, Feb./Mar. 2008
- Facilities Coordinator, Albacon 2008
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Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS versus VxFS as file system inside Netbackup 6.0 DSSU
unfortunately in this area, Symantec is not helping anyone. they even
take their time to officially include zfs in their compatibility lists
s-
On Jan 16, 2008 1:26 PM, Paul Kraus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Previous posts from various people:
But ... NBU (at least version 6.0) attempts to estimate the
size of the backup and make suer there is enough room on the DSSU to
handle it. What happens when the free space reported by ZFS isn't
really the free space ?
Regarding the question asked below namely What happens when the free
space reported by ZFS isn't really the free space ?, is there an open
bug for this ?
As others have said, not a ZFS bug, but a feature :-) Of
course, this behavior can be eliminated using ZFS reservations. My
comment was regarding the utility of using one ZFS pool to contain
MULTIPLE NBU Disk Stage Storage Units ... I just don't see the utility
there and I do see a downside.
The NetBackup server scans a backup client system,
It determines it will need 600gb of disk space on the disk store.
It stats the zfs volume and sees there is 700 gb free (enough for the
backup)
Starts writing 600gb over multiple hours.
in the meantime, 500gb is used elsewhere in the pool.
NetBackup Fails differently that on vmfs+vxvm in this case?
Isn't it NetBackups issue to make sure that it has reserved diskspace or at
least checks for space _as_ it writes?
If a disk stage fills during a backup (and there is nothing to
prevent another application from filling it either) it first triggers
DSSU garbage collection to remove the oldest backup images that have
already been duplicated to other storage, if that does not succeed in
freeing up enough space (and I have seen it trigger GC multiple
times), then I have observed two different behaviors (probably related
to differing patch versions):
1. backup fails with a 129 error
2. backup is continued on tape media
This latter 'solution' ends up creating a unusable backup
image as NBU now doesn't know how to deal with an image that crosses
storage units, but that is very off topic for this list :-)
My question was more toward how NBU will deal with the apparent
SIZE of the DSSU on ZFS changing on a frequent basis.
--
{1-2-3-4-5-6-7-}
Paul Kraus
- Sound Designer, Noel Coward's Hay Fever
@ Albany Civic Theatre, Feb./Mar. 2008
- Facilities Coordinator, Albacon 2008
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--
Blog: http://fakoli.blogspot.com/
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Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS versus VxFS as file system inside Netbackup 6.0 DSSU
Veritas products tend to work best with... well... other Veritas products. On 1/11/08, Patrick Herman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello experts, We have a large implementation of Symantec Netbackup 6.0 with disk staging. Today, the customer is using VxFS as file system inside Netbackup 6.0 DSSU (disk staging). The customer would like to know if it is best to use ZFS or VxFS as file system inside Netbackup disk staging in order to get the best performance possible. Could you provide some information regarding this topic? Thanks in advance for your help Regards Patrick ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss -- _/ sengork.blogspot.com / ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS versus VxFS as file system inside Netbackup 6.0 DSSU
with zfs you can compress data on disk ...that is a grat advantage when doing backup to disk also, for DSSU you need to multiply number of filesystem (1 fs per stu), the advantage of zfs is that you don't need to fix the size of the fs upfront (the space is shared among all the fs) s- On Jan 10, 2008 2:12 PM, Patrick Herman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello experts, We have a large implementation of Symantec Netbackup 6.0 with disk staging. Today, the customer is using VxFS as file system inside Netbackup 6.0 DSSU (disk staging). The customer would like to know if it is best to use ZFS or VxFS as file system inside Netbackup disk staging in order to get the best performance possible. Could you provide some information regarding this topic? Thanks in advance for your help Regards Patrick ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss -- -- Blog: http://fakoli.blogspot.com/ ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS versus VxFS as file system inside Netbackup 6.0 DSSU
On 1/15/08, Selim Daoud [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
with zfs you can compress data on disk ...that is a grat advantage
when doing backup to disk
also, for DSSU you need to multiply number of filesystem (1 fs per
stu), the advantage of zfs is that you don't need to fix the size
of the fs upfront (the space is shared among all the fs)
But ... NBU (at least version 6.0) attempts to estimate the
size of the backup and make suer there is enough room on the DSSU to
handle it. What happens when the free space reported by ZFS isn't
really the free space ?
We are using NBU DSSU against both UFS and ZFS (but not
against VxFS) and have not noticed any FS related performance
limitations. The clients and the network are all slower.
--
{1-2-3-4-5-6-7-}
Paul Kraus
- Sound Designer, Noel Coward's Hay Fever
@ Albany Civic Theatre, Feb./Mar. 2008
- Facilities Coordinator, Albacon 2008
___
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Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS versus VxFS as file system inside Netbackup 6.0 DSSU
Regarding the question asked below namely What happens when the free space reported by ZFS isn't really the free space ?, is there an open bug for this ? Thanks, Sri Paul Kraus wrote: On 1/15/08, Selim Daoud [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: with zfs you can compress data on disk ...that is a grat advantage when doing backup to disk also, for DSSU you need to multiply number of filesystem (1 fs per stu), the advantage of zfs is that you don't need to fix the size of the fs upfront (the space is shared among all the fs) But ... NBU (at least version 6.0) attempts to estimate the size of the backup and make suer there is enough room on the DSSU to handle it. What happens when the free space reported by ZFS isn't really the free space ? We are using NBU DSSU against both UFS and ZFS (but not against VxFS) and have not noticed any FS related performance limitations. The clients and the network are all slower. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS versus VxFS as file system inside Netbackup 6.0 DSSU
Sri Sudarsan wrote: Regarding the question asked below namely What happens when the free space reported by ZFS isn't really the free space ?, is there an open bug for this ? Not a bug. It is a result of the dynamic nature of ZFS. For example, when compression is enabled, we cannot tell in advance how well the data will compress, so how could we say how much space is available? Other items to consider: dynamically allocated, redundant, and compressed metadata; snapshots; multiple file systems in a pool, each with potentially different features including compression algorithms and data redundancy; clones; failed media; failed devices; etc. Kinda reminds me of the old question: how much stuff can you put into a hole in your pocket? -- richard Thanks, Sri Paul Kraus wrote: On 1/15/08, Selim Daoud [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: with zfs you can compress data on disk ...that is a grat advantage when doing backup to disk also, for DSSU you need to multiply number of filesystem (1 fs per stu), the advantage of zfs is that you don't need to fix the size of the fs upfront (the space is shared among all the fs) But ... NBU (at least version 6.0) attempts to estimate the size of the backup and make suer there is enough room on the DSSU to handle it. What happens when the free space reported by ZFS isn't really the free space ? We are using NBU DSSU against both UFS and ZFS (but not against VxFS) and have not noticed any FS related performance limitations. The clients and the network are all slower. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS versus VxFS as file system inside Netbackup 6.0 DSSU
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 01/15/2008 03:04:15 PM: Sri Paul Kraus wrote: On 1/15/08, Selim Daoud [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: with zfs you can compress data on disk ...that is a grat advantage when doing backup to disk also, for DSSU you need to multiply number of filesystem (1 fs per stu), the advantage of zfs is that you don't need to fix the size of the fs upfront (the space is shared among all the fs) But ... NBU (at least version 6.0) attempts to estimate the size of the backup and make suer there is enough room on the DSSU to handle it. What happens when the free space reported by ZFS isn't really the free space ? We are using NBU DSSU against both UFS and ZFS (but not against VxFS) and have not noticed any FS related performance limitations. The clients and the network are all slower. Regarding the question asked below namely What happens when the free space reported by ZFS isn't really the free space ?, is there an open bug for this ? I do not believe it is a ZFS bug. Consider: The NetBackup server scans a backup client system, It determines it will need 600gb of disk space on the disk store. It stats the zfs volume and sees there is 700 gb free (enough for the backup) Starts writing 600gb over multiple hours. in the meantime, 500gb is used elsewhere in the pool. NetBackup Fails differently that on vmfs+vxvm in this case? Isn't it NetBackups issue to make sure that it has reserved diskspace or at least checks for space _as_ it writes? -Wade ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS versus VxFS as file system inside Netbackup 6.0 DSSU
AFAIK , nbu does of estimated the size of backup prior starting the job.
as the backup job is split in fixed-size segments , if a segment does
not fit, it will try to backup into
another disk or will wait for more space
On Jan 15, 2008 8:42 PM, Paul Kraus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 1/15/08, Selim Daoud [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
with zfs you can compress data on disk ...that is a grat advantage
when doing backup to disk
also, for DSSU you need to multiply number of filesystem (1 fs per
stu), the advantage of zfs is that you don't need to fix the size
of the fs upfront (the space is shared among all the fs)
But ... NBU (at least version 6.0) attempts to estimate the
size of the backup and make suer there is enough room on the DSSU to
handle it. What happens when the free space reported by ZFS isn't
really the free space ?
We are using NBU DSSU against both UFS and ZFS (but not
against VxFS) and have not noticed any FS related performance
limitations. The clients and the network are all slower.
--
{1-2-3-4-5-6-7-}
Paul Kraus
- Sound Designer, Noel Coward's Hay Fever
@ Albany Civic Theatre, Feb./Mar. 2008
- Facilities Coordinator, Albacon 2008
___
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http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
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--
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[zfs-discuss] ZFS versus VxFS as file system inside Netbackup 6.0 DSSU
Hello experts, We have a large implementation of Symantec Netbackup 6.0 with disk staging. Today, the customer is using VxFS as file system inside Netbackup 6.0 DSSU (disk staging). The customer would like to know if it is best to use ZFS or VxFS as file system inside Netbackup disk staging in order to get the best performance possible. Could you provide some information regarding this topic? Thanks in advance for your help Regards Patrick ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
