Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
On Mon, 2009-12-07 at 23:31 +0100, Martijn de Munnik wrote: > On Dec 7, 2009, at 11:23 PM, Daniel Carosone wrote: > > >> but if you attempt to "add" a disk to a redundant > >> config, you'll see an error message similar [..] > >> > >> Doesn't the "mismatched replication" message help? > > > > Not if you're trying to make a single disk pool redundant by adding .. er, > > attaching .. a mirror; then there won't be such a warning, however > > effective that warning might or might not be otherwise. > > That's exactly where I made the mistake, a single disk pool and I wanted to > attach another disk to build a mirror. > > I'm now using zfs send and receive to backup the disk to another zpool. Then > I want to rename the old and the new zpools and mount the new zpool. Then I > can destroy the old zpool, attach the free disks from the old zpool creating > a mirror and in the end detach the extra disk from new mirrored zpool. Will this be the best way do recreate the mirror with the least downtime? I can do the zfs send/receive when the system is running. I only need to do a zfs send/receive of an incremantel snapshot when the system is not using the zpool (I need to disable services like mail and db which use zpool for storage). Then I need to rename the zpools and attach the new zpool and can bring back the services online. > > > -- > > This message posted from opensolaris.org > > ___ > > zfs-discuss mailing list > > zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss > > > > ___ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss > ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
Daniel Carosone writes: >>> Not if you're trying to make a single disk pool redundant by adding >>> .. er, attaching .. a mirror; then there won't be such a warning, >>> however effective that warning might or might not be otherwise. >> >> Not a problem because you can then detach the vdev and add it. > > It's a problem if you're trying to do that, but end up adding instead > of attaching, which you can't (yet) undo. at least in that case the amount of data shuffling you have to do is limited to one disk (it's unlikely you do this mistake for a multi device vdev). in any case, the block rewrite implementation isn't *that* far away, is it? -- Kjetil T. Homme Redpill Linpro AS - Changing the game ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
>>> Doesn't the "mismatched replication" message help? >> >> Not if you're trying to make a single disk pool redundant by adding .. >> er, attaching .. a mirror; then there won't be such a warning, however >> effective that warning might or might not be otherwise. > > Not a problem because you can then detach the vdev and add it. It's a problem if you're trying to do that, but end up adding instead of attaching, which you can't (yet) undo. pgph98ctqsgiA.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
What about removing attach/deattach and replace it with zpool add [-fn] 'pool' submirror 'device/mirrorname' 'new_device' e.g. NAMESTATE READ WRITE CKSUM rpoolONLINE 0 0 0 mirror-01 ONLINE 0 0 0 c4d0s0 ONLINE 0 0 0 c3d0s0 ONLINE 0 0 0 zpool add rpool submirror mirror-01 c5d0s0 # or zpool add rpool submirror c4d0s0 c5d0s0 zpool remove rpool c5d0s0 Some more examples zpool add 'pool' submirror log-01 c7d0s0 # create a mirror for the Intent Log And may be one day zpool add 'pool' subraidz raidz2-01 c5d0s0 to add extra disk to raidz group and have the disk restriped in the background Which would mean vdev in terms of syntax would support concat (was disk), concat-file (was file), mirror, submirror, raidz, raidzN, subraidz (one day), spare, log, cache -- And change zpool add rpool disk c5d0s0 to zpool add rpool concat c5d0s0 # instead of disk use concat or zpool add rpool concatfile # instead of file Cheers -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Ed Plese wrote: > Would it be beneficial to have a command line option to zpool that > would only "preview" or do a "dry-run" through the changes, but > instead just display what the pool would look like after the operation > and leave the pool unchanged? For those that very rarely make pool > changes, getting in the habit of always using an option like this > might be a good way to ensure the change is really what is desired. There I go requesting features that are already there. "zpool add" already has a -n option that will show the pool configuration that would be used, without actually making any changes. A couple other subcommands accept the -n option as well. Ed Plese ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
On Dec 7, 2009, at 11:32 PM, Ed Plese wrote: > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Cindy Swearingen > wrote: >> I agree that zpool attach and add look similar in their syntax, >> but if you attempt to "add" a disk to a redundant config, you'll >> see an error message similar to the following: >> >> # zpool status export >> pool: export >> state: ONLINE >> scrub: none requested >> config: >> >>NAMESTATE READ WRITE CKSUM >>export ONLINE 0 0 0 >> mirror-0 ONLINE 0 0 0 >>c1t3d0 ONLINE 0 0 0 >>c1t4d0 ONLINE 0 0 0 >> >> errors: No known data errors >> # zpool add export c1t6d0 >> invalid vdev specification >> use '-f' to override the following errors: >> mismatched replication level: pool uses mirror and new vdev is disk >> >> Doesn't the "mismatched replication" message help? > > When adding a disk to a single-disk pool, this message isn't given and > the add proceeds without any warning and without the need to force it: > > # cd /tmp > # mkfile 256m f1 f2 > # zpool create testpool /tmp/f1 > # zpool add testpool /tmp/f2 > # zpool status testpool > pool: testpool > state: ONLINE > scrub: none requested > config: > >NAMESTATE READ WRITE CKSUM >testpoolONLINE 0 0 0 > /tmp/f1 ONLINE 0 0 0 > /tmp/f2 ONLINE 0 0 0 > > errors: No known data errors > > Would it be beneficial to have a command line option to zpool that > would only "preview" or do a "dry-run" through the changes, but > instead just display what the pool would look like after the operation > and leave the pool unchanged? For those that very rarely make pool > changes, getting in the habit of always using an option like this > might be a good way to ensure the change is really what is desired. > > Some information that might be nice to see would be the before and > after versions of "zpool list", the "zpool status", and what command > could be run to reverse the change, or a warning if the change is > irreversible like the case with "zpool add". I guess the best solution is to make it easy to undo the changes. zfs remove should be just as easy. > > > Ed Plese > ___ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss > ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
On Dec 7, 2009, at 11:23 PM, Daniel Carosone wrote: >> but if you attempt to "add" a disk to a redundant >> config, you'll see an error message similar [..] >> >> Doesn't the "mismatched replication" message help? > > Not if you're trying to make a single disk pool redundant by adding .. er, > attaching .. a mirror; then there won't be such a warning, however effective > that warning might or might not be otherwise. That's exactly where I made the mistake, a single disk pool and I wanted to attach another disk to build a mirror. I'm now using zfs send and receive to backup the disk to another zpool. Then I want to rename the old and the new zpools and mount the new zpool. Then I can destroy the old zpool, attach the free disks from the old zpool creating a mirror and in the end detach the extra disk from new mirrored zpool. > -- > This message posted from opensolaris.org > ___ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss > ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Cindy Swearingen wrote: > I agree that zpool attach and add look similar in their syntax, > but if you attempt to "add" a disk to a redundant config, you'll > see an error message similar to the following: > > # zpool status export > pool: export > state: ONLINE > scrub: none requested > config: > > NAME STATE READ WRITE CKSUM > export ONLINE 0 0 0 > mirror-0 ONLINE 0 0 0 > c1t3d0 ONLINE 0 0 0 > c1t4d0 ONLINE 0 0 0 > > errors: No known data errors > # zpool add export c1t6d0 > invalid vdev specification > use '-f' to override the following errors: > mismatched replication level: pool uses mirror and new vdev is disk > > Doesn't the "mismatched replication" message help? When adding a disk to a single-disk pool, this message isn't given and the add proceeds without any warning and without the need to force it: # cd /tmp # mkfile 256m f1 f2 # zpool create testpool /tmp/f1 # zpool add testpool /tmp/f2 # zpool status testpool pool: testpool state: ONLINE scrub: none requested config: NAMESTATE READ WRITE CKSUM testpoolONLINE 0 0 0 /tmp/f1 ONLINE 0 0 0 /tmp/f2 ONLINE 0 0 0 errors: No known data errors Would it be beneficial to have a command line option to zpool that would only "preview" or do a "dry-run" through the changes, but instead just display what the pool would look like after the operation and leave the pool unchanged? For those that very rarely make pool changes, getting in the habit of always using an option like this might be a good way to ensure the change is really what is desired. Some information that might be nice to see would be the before and after versions of "zpool list", the "zpool status", and what command could be run to reverse the change, or a warning if the change is irreversible like the case with "zpool add". Ed Plese ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
On Dec 7, 2009, at 2:23 PM, Daniel Carosone wrote: but if you attempt to "add" a disk to a redundant config, you'll see an error message similar [..] Doesn't the "mismatched replication" message help? Not if you're trying to make a single disk pool redundant by adding .. er, attaching .. a mirror; then there won't be such a warning, however effective that warning might or might not be otherwise. Not a problem because you can then detach the vdev and add it. -- richard ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
> but if you attempt to "add" a disk to a redundant > config, you'll see an error message similar [..] > > Doesn't the "mismatched replication" message help? Not if you're trying to make a single disk pool redundant by adding .. er, attaching .. a mirror; then there won't be such a warning, however effective that warning might or might not be otherwise. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
> Jokes aside, this is too easy to make a mistake with > the consequences that are > too hard to correct. Anyone disagrees? No, and this sums up the situation nicely, in that there are two parallel paths toward a resolution: - make the mistake harder to make (various ideas here) - make the consequences easier to correct (coming) We really can and should do both. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
Andriy Gapon writes: > on 06/12/2009 19:40 Volker A. Brandt said the following: > >> I wanted to add a disk to the tank pool to create a mirror. I accidentally > >> used zpool add ? instead of zpool attach ? and now the disk is added. Is > >> there a way to remove the disk without loosing data? > > > > Been there, done that -- at a customer site while showing off > > ZFS. :-) [...] > > Yep. My 2 cents -- 'add' and 'attach' are so similar the words that I think > that ZFS tools UI designers (if any) should re-consider naming of these > commands. Or 'add' command should always be interactive and ask for at least > two confirmations that a user knows what he is doing and why. Perhaps, it > should include a ZFS micro-exam too. > Jokes aside, this is too easy to make a mistake with the consequences that are > too hard to correct. Anyone disagrees? I absolutely totally, like, fully agree, man! :-) There should be some interaction and maybe even a display of the new pool structure, followed for a confirmation prompt. This could be overridden with the already well-established "-f" flag. Regards -- Volker -- Volker A. Brandt Consulting and Support for Sun Solaris Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/~vab/ Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim Email: v...@bb-c.de Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513 Schuhgröße: 45 Geschäftsführer: Rainer J. H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
On Dec 7, 2009, at 10:42 AM, Cindy Swearingen wrote: I agree that zpool attach and add look similar in their syntax, but if you attempt to "add" a disk to a redundant config, you'll see an error message similar to the following: # zpool status export pool: export state: ONLINE scrub: none requested config: NAMESTATE READ WRITE CKSUM export ONLINE 0 0 0 mirror-0 ONLINE 0 0 0 c1t3d0 ONLINE 0 0 0 c1t4d0 ONLINE 0 0 0 errors: No known data errors # zpool add export c1t6d0 invalid vdev specification use '-f' to override the following errors: mismatched replication level: pool uses mirror and new vdev is disk This was one of the first, great debates on ZFS-discuss http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=15363㰃 I believe all possible observations are made in that thread. Of particular note, humans train themselves to use a "-f" (or for kill, "-9" :-) as a not-optional part of the command string. It really doesn't matter what the command is named, you will train yourself to go to the forced option. If you want to protect yourself from yourself, begin with yourself. -- richard ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
I agree that zpool attach and add look similar in their syntax, but if you attempt to "add" a disk to a redundant config, you'll see an error message similar to the following: # zpool status export pool: export state: ONLINE scrub: none requested config: NAMESTATE READ WRITE CKSUM export ONLINE 0 0 0 mirror-0 ONLINE 0 0 0 c1t3d0 ONLINE 0 0 0 c1t4d0 ONLINE 0 0 0 errors: No known data errors # zpool add export c1t6d0 invalid vdev specification use '-f' to override the following errors: mismatched replication level: pool uses mirror and new vdev is disk Doesn't the "mismatched replication" message help? Cindy On 12/06/09 14:13, Andriy Gapon wrote: on 06/12/2009 19:40 Volker A. Brandt said the following: I wanted to add a disk to the tank pool to create a mirror. I accidentally used zpool add ? instead of zpool attach ? and now the disk is added. Is there a way to remove the disk without loosing data? Been there, done that -- at a customer site while showing off ZFS. :-) Currently, you cannot remove a "simple" device. Depending on your Solaris version, you can remove things like hot spares and cache devices, but not simple vdevs. Backup the pool and recreate it in the correct way. Sorry for the bad news -- Volker Yep. My 2 cents -- 'add' and 'attach' are so similar the words that I think that ZFS tools UI designers (if any) should re-consider naming of these commands. Or 'add' command should always be interactive and ask for at least two confirmations that a user knows what he is doing and why. Perhaps, it should include a ZFS micro-exam too. Jokes aside, this is too easy to make a mistake with the consequences that are too hard to correct. Anyone disagrees? ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
+1 I support a replacement for a SCM system that used "open" as an alias for "edit" and a separate command, "opened" to see what was opened for edit, delete, etc. Our customers accidentally used "open" when they meant "opened" so many times that we blocked it as a command. It saved us a lot of support calls. Gary -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
on 06/12/2009 19:40 Volker A. Brandt said the following: >> I wanted to add a disk to the tank pool to create a mirror. I accidentally >> used zpool add ? instead of zpool attach ? and now the disk is added. Is >> there a way to remove the disk without loosing data? > > Been there, done that -- at a customer site while showing off > ZFS. :-) > > Currently, you cannot remove a "simple" device. Depending > on your Solaris version, you can remove things like hot spares and > cache devices, but not simple vdevs. > > Backup the pool and recreate it in the correct way. > > > Sorry for the bad news -- Volker Yep. My 2 cents -- 'add' and 'attach' are so similar the words that I think that ZFS tools UI designers (if any) should re-consider naming of these commands. Or 'add' command should always be interactive and ask for at least two confirmations that a user knows what he is doing and why. Perhaps, it should include a ZFS micro-exam too. Jokes aside, this is too easy to make a mistake with the consequences that are too hard to correct. Anyone disagrees? -- Andriy Gapon ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
> Do you know a good zfs backup restore walktrough online? Not really. Check out the zfs send and receive commands in the ZFS Administration Guide: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-5461/gbinw?a=view Basically, you make a snapshot of every filesystem you want to backup, then you use "zfs send" for each snapshot to create a stream that you store in some other place. Next, you destroy the pool and recreate it. Finally, you restore the filesystems one by one with the "zfs receive" command, using the streams that you created in the first step. See also the section on send and receive in zfs(1M). Good luck -- Volker -- Volker A. Brandt Consulting and Support for Sun Solaris Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/ Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim Email: v...@bb-c.de Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513 Schuhgröße: 45 Geschäftsführer: Rainer J. H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
Do you know a good zfs backup restore walktrough online? -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
I saw this bug report… http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do?bug_id=4852783 -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Accidentally added disk instead of attaching
> I wanted to add a disk to the tank pool to create a mirror. I accidentally > used zpool add ? instead of zpool attach ? and now the disk is added. Is > there a way to remove the disk without loosing data? Been there, done that -- at a customer site while showing off ZFS. :-) Currently, you cannot remove a "simple" device. Depending on your Solaris version, you can remove things like hot spares and cache devices, but not simple vdevs. Backup the pool and recreate it in the correct way. Sorry for the bad news -- Volker -- Volker A. Brandt Consulting and Support for Sun Solaris Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/ Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim Email: v...@bb-c.de Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513 Schuhgröße: 45 Geschäftsführer: Rainer J. H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
