Re: [ZION] Voting and parties (was Re: Cuba and Castro)
At some point in the past, Stephen wrote: > To make sure the Democrats in an area don't band together and elect a > Republican candidate who can't possibly win the general election, and > vice versa. - This happens, I'm sure. I mentioned before that this is the way things are done in Georgia. Whenever someone loses a primary, they inevitably use this as an excuse for losing. It doesn't make much sense, though, when both parties are holding primaries. I have mainly voted in Republican primaries. Off hand, I don't recall ever voting in a Democratic primary, but I wouldn't deny it. Before I became of voting age, I understand that practically everything in Georgia was determined at the Democratic primary because the Republican party didn't have much of a chance at anything. That is no longer the case, though Democrats still maintain a firm grip on a lot of offices. BTW, I have sent in my absentee ballot. I have no idea whether it will actually be counted or not. There were many offices in which I voted for neither the Democrat or Republican candidate. I am a firm believer in voting for who you think is best, not who you think will win. That includes the liberal use of write-in voting. (I have voted for Grampa Bill many times in the past, and for two offices this time around. Gramma Letty, too, for that matter.) Cousin Bill / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Voting and parties (was Re: Cuba and Castro)
-Marc- > In the U.S. every voter registers for a party (or as an > independent -- as I recall the rules vary considerably from This is not correct. -Mark- > What? You mean to say that you cannot vote in the US unless > you register your "preference"? Is that true? No, it is not true. Many states do require you to register in order to vote in the primaries, though. > And if it is, what's the point of it? To make sure the Democrats in an area don't band together and elect a Republican candidate who can't possibly win the general election, and vice versa. > Since your vote is secret, why register a preference? In a primary, you may only vote within your registered party if you live in a state with such rules. Some states don't have any such rules, which I consider to be a mistake (the lack of such rules, I mean). > As to voting or supporting a party: I'm not sure that I follow > what Elder Jensen was saying. What's the point of voting for a > party if you don't accept their policies? Obviously, I can't speak for Elder Jensen, but I suspect the general authorities are concerned about the lack of opposition to the Republicans in Utah. This lack of political balance allows the Republicans to bend the rules and control state politics without an effective counterbalance. Personally, I'm not sure that's so much worse than the perpetual gridlock you so often get with more "balanced" state legislatures. In any case, it is vastly preferable to having a bunch of Democrats in charge. Stephen / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Voting and parties (was Re: Cuba and Castro)
Stephen Beecroft wrote: > -Marc- > > In the U.S. every voter registers for a party (or as an > > independent -- as I recall the rules vary considerably from > > This is not correct. Please don't interrupt. If you read the whole post, I made clear that this was to vote in party conventions -- what you call primaries. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland We do not think that there is an incompatibility between words and deeds; the worst thing is to rush into action before the consequences have been properly debated To think of the future and wait was merely another way of saying one was a coward; any idea of moderation was just an attempt to disguise ones unmanly character; ability to understand a question from all sides meant that one was totally unfitted for action. Pericles about his fellow-Athenians, as quoted by Thucydides in The Peloponessian Wars Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] Voting and parties (was Re: Cuba and Castro)
-Marc- > In the U.S. every voter registers for a party (or as an > independent -- as I recall the rules vary considerably from -Stephen- > This is not correct. -Marc- > Please don't interrupt. Oops. My bad. I had thought this was John Redelfs' discussion list, not Marc Schindler's lecture hall. Silly me. > If you read the whole post, I made clear that this was to > vote in party conventions -- what you call primaries. Wrong. Your first paragraph was: "Being a 'member' of a party in our Westminster system means something different than it does in the U.S. In the U.S. every voter registers for a party (or as an independent -- as I recall the rules vary considerably from state to state, as to how the states elect their delegates to the party national conventions). So to say that my late father was a Democrat means that he was registered as a Democrat. As it happens, this is pretty meaningless, because the vote is secret, and you can vote for whomever you like." This paragraph clearly was referring to the general election, since you said affiliation was "meaningless" and that "you can vote for whomever you like", something not possible in primaries. Only in your next paragraph did you go on to discuss primaries. Even if you had "made clear that this was to vote in...primaries", you're still wrong. In no sense is it true that "[i]n the U.S. every voter registers for a party (or as an independent)". A great many voters do not register under any affiliation whatsoever, and some states allow participation in primaries without a declared affiliation. Maybe you should read your own posts more carefully. Alternatively, you could admit when you're wrong...oh, never mind. No use dwelling in a land of fantasy. Tweakin' Stephen / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Voting and parties (was Re: Cuba and Castro)
Exactly. I was referring to state party conventions, what you call in US English, primaries. Stephen Beecroft wrote: > -Marc- > > In the U.S. every voter registers for a party (or as an > > independent -- as I recall the rules vary considerably from > > -Stephen- > > This is not correct. > > -Marc- > > Please don't interrupt. > > Oops. My bad. I had thought this was John Redelfs' discussion list, not > Marc Schindler's lecture hall. Silly me. > > > If you read the whole post, I made clear that this was to > > vote in party conventions -- what you call primaries. > > Wrong. Your first paragraph was: "Being a 'member' of a party in our > Westminster system means something different than it does in the U.S. In > the U.S. every voter registers for a party (or as an independent -- as I > recall the rules vary considerably from state to state, as to how the > states elect their delegates to the party national conventions). So to > say that my late father was a Democrat means that he was registered as a > Democrat. As it happens, this is pretty meaningless, because the vote is > secret, and you can vote for whomever you like." > > This paragraph clearly was referring to the general election, since you > said affiliation was "meaningless" and that "you can vote for whomever > you like", something not possible in primaries. Only in your next > paragraph did you go on to discuss primaries. > > Even if you had "made clear that this was to vote in...primaries", > you're still wrong. In no sense is it true that "[i]n the U.S. every > voter registers for a party (or as an independent)". A great many voters > do not register under any affiliation whatsoever, and some states allow > participation in primaries without a declared affiliation. > > Maybe you should read your own posts more carefully. > Alternatively, you could admit when you're wrong...oh, never mind. No > use dwelling in a land of fantasy. > > Tweakin' Stephen > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland We do not think that there is an incompatibility between words and deeds; the worst thing is to rush into action before the consequences have been properly debated To think of the future and wait was merely another way of saying one was a coward; any idea of moderation was just an attempt to disguise ones unmanly character; ability to understand a question from all sides meant that one was totally unfitted for action. Pericles about his fellow-Athenians, as quoted by Thucydides in The Peloponessian Wars Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] Voting and parties (was Re: Cuba and Castro)
-Marc- > Exactly. I was referring to state party conventions, what you > call in US English, primaries. Interesting. So, then, what did you intend to say when you wrote: So to say that my late father was a Democrat means that he was registered as a Democrat. As it happens, this is pretty meaningless, because the vote is secret, and you can vote for whomever you like. If you were referring to primaries, then why did you say that affilliation was "meaningless, because...you can vote for whomever you like"? This is clearly false, even in primaries. And you never did respond to the question of why your statement, "[i]n the U.S. every voter registers for a party (or as an independent)", was not false on its face, given that not all states require registration in a party to participate in primaries, much less the general election. Clarifyingly, Stephen / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Voting and parties (was Re: Cuba and Castro)
Stephen Beecroft wrote: > -Marc- > > Exactly. I was referring to state party conventions, what you > > call in US English, primaries. > > Interesting. So, then, what did you intend to say when you wrote: > > So to say that my late father was a Democrat means that he > was registered as a Democrat. As it happens, this is pretty > meaningless, because the vote is secret, and you can vote > for whomever you like. > You know, this isn't rocket science. All you have to do is read, not cut and paste selectively in what appears to be a deliberately polemical way. I had already made my point about state conventions, then went on to write what you've quoted. Again you've quoted me out of context. This particular reference is to voting following the primaries. Was it that hard to figure out, or are you your own worst enemy when it comes to understanding what others write? > > If you were referring to primaries, then why did you say that > affilliation was "meaningless, because...you can vote for whomever you > like"? This is clearly false, even in primaries. And you never did > respond to the question of why your statement, "[i]n the U.S. every > voter registers for a party (or as an independent)", was not false on > its face, given that not all states require registration in a party to > participate in primaries, much less the general election. > Because I thought it was a dumb question, if you really insist on an answer. If you want me to be tactful, give me room to be tactful. > > Clarifyingly, > > Stephen > Be careful what you ask for. You might get it. Clarification, in this case. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland We do not think that there is an incompatibility between words and deeds; the worst thing is to rush into action before the consequences have been properly debated To think of the future and wait was merely another way of saying one was a coward; any idea of moderation was just an attempt to disguise ones unmanly character; ability to understand a question from all sides meant that one was totally unfitted for action. Pericles about his fellow-Athenians, as quoted by Thucydides in The Peloponessian Wars Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] Voting and parties (was Re: Cuba and Castro)
-Stephen- > Interesting. So, then, what did you intend to say when you wrote: > > So to say that my late father was a Democrat means that he > was registered as a Democrat. As it happens, this is pretty > meaningless, because the vote is secret, and you can vote > for whomever you like. > -Marc- > You know, this isn't rocket science. No, it's not. It's called "reading". > All you have to do is read, not cut and paste selectively > in what appears to be a deliberately polemical way. In fact, I cut and pasted to preserve the meaning as much as possible without simply requoting your entire email. > I had already made my point about state conventions, then went > on to write what you've quoted. Wrong. The part I quoted was at the beginning of your email. You then went on to expound even more after that. > Again you've quoted me out of context. Marc, go back and read your email. I have quoted you perfectly in context. Sheesh. Just admit you were wrong, and you really don't know everything, despite how you might wish to appear. > This particular reference is to voting following the primaries. No, Marc, it is not. Would you like me to quote your email at length and demonstrate that you were *not* talking about "voting following the primaries"? I can. Easier would be for you to go back and read what you wrote. > Was it that hard to figure out, or are you your own worst > enemy when it comes to understanding what others write? Is it that hard to be honest, Marc, or are you your own worst enemy in remembering what you yourself wrote? > If you were referring to primaries, then why did you say that > affilliation was "meaningless, because...you can vote for > whomever you like"? This is clearly false, even in primaries. You lose either way. Either you were talking about primaries, as you claimed second, in which case you are just plain wrong; or else, as you originally (and now again) say, you were talking about the general election, in which case your claim that everyone had to be registered with a party is clearly false in every single state. -Stephen- > And you never did respond to the question of why your > statement, "[i]n the U.S. every voter registers for a > party (or as an independent)", was not false on its face, > given that not all states require registration in a party to > participate in primaries, much less the general election. -Marc- > Because I thought it was a dumb question, if you really > insist on an answer. And yet, you still don't answer the "dumb" question. Probably because the "dumb" question shows that you are wrong. Your statement was false, any way you slice it. There is no sense in which your claim "In the U.S every voter registers for a party (or as an independent)" is true. Curses upon those dumb questions! > If you want me to be tactful, give me room to be tactful. Marc, I no more expect you to be tactful than I expect a skunk to smell nice. Your tact, such as it is, almost always ends whenever you are shown to be wrong. I must admit, however, you put on a most impressive display of gymnastic ability in seeking to avoid direct responses to challenges to your assertions and claims. Stephen / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Voting and parties (was Re: Cuba and Castro)
Stephen Beecroft wrote: > -Stephen- > > Interesting. So, then, what did you intend to say when you wrote: > > > > So to say that my late father was a Democrat means that he > > was registered as a Democrat. As it happens, this is pretty > > meaningless, because the vote is secret, and you can vote > > for whomever you like. > > > > -Marc- > > You know, this isn't rocket science. > > No, it's not. It's called "reading". > > > All you have to do is read, not cut and paste selectively > > in what appears to be a deliberately polemical way. > > In fact, I cut and pasted to preserve the meaning as much as possible > without simply requoting your entire email. > > > I had already made my point about state conventions, then went > > on to write what you've quoted. > > Wrong. The part I quoted was at the beginning of your email. You then > went on to expound even more after that. > Stephen, please knock it off. You know darn well thiw wasn't the beginning of my email -- you'd already quoted the whole paragraph before. Before I wrote what you quoted, I wrote, "Being a 'member' of a party in our Westminster system means something different than it does in the U.S. In the U.S. every voter registers for a party (or as an independent -- as I recall the rules vary considerably from state to state, as to how the states elect their delegates to the party national conventions). " This was then followed by what you selectively quoted, "So to say that my late father was a Democrat means that he was registered as a Democrat. As it happens, this is pretty meaningless, because the vote is secret, and you can vote for whomever you like." I changed my focus from state conventions (primaries) to elections. If you don't want to accept my explanation as to what I was thinking when I wrote this, then there's no point continuing this as far as I'm concerned. You see what you want to see. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland We do not think that there is an incompatibility between words and deeds; the worst thing is to rush into action before the consequences have been properly debated To think of the future and wait was merely another way of saying one was a coward; any idea of moderation was just an attempt to disguise ones unmanly character; ability to understand a question from all sides meant that one was totally unfitted for action. Pericles about his fellow-Athenians, as quoted by Thucydides in The Peloponessian Wars Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
