[Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Dieter Maurer wrote: yuppie wrote at 2007-2-3 11:44 +0100: ... Unfortunately integrating a product into the Zope core means more than just adjusting the coding style: - As already mentioned in this thread, monkey patches and code like fixPluginIndexes.py have to be resolved. AdvancedQuery contains a monkey patch for CMF - that should not be shipped with Zope core. fixPluginIndexes fixed (maybe meanwhile resolved) bugs in Products.PluginIndexes.common.util.parseIndexRequest. The mentioned CMF monkey patch gives the CatalogTool the new method evalAdvancedQuery, provided CMFCore is installed. I do not see why this monkey patch should not be applied. I am sure that I want to be able to use AdvancedQuery even with a CatalogTool, if both are installed. Monkey patches should be avoided when they can. I think that's something we don't need to discuss. Integrating a product into Zope is the perfect opportunity to get rid of monkey patches and consolidate the fixes into the main product lines. Therefore, the CMF should rather grow that method itself than having it patched in by Zope. Either way, I think this point is mute since all the Plone community really wants is a public subversion repository with access to the code and control over the code, which I would think is asking for a lot (you've indicated that reformatting the code would mean you wouldn't be available for maintenance anymore). Whoever is asking for AdvancedQuery and other things to be in svn.zope.org or even Zope 2 itself ought to weigh the amount of maintenance work against the little potential (not actual!) benefits. I think we can leave everything as it is and if Plone needs it in an svn repo, heck, why not do vendor imports? (not in svn.zope.org, of course, since the contributor agreement forbids that) I'm not sure this warranted this much discussion or getting panties in a bunch, but maybe something was learned here. As phrased early on, it would be *nice* for those of us using svn:externals to manage certain build processes to have AdvancedQuery in svn somewhere(not life or death). did we reach some sort of conclusion in all this? Having a AQ egg would be the same difference imho. I would be happy to help maintain AdvancedQuery(though I hardly feel qualified), though I would prefer to leave it in a form that Dieter would actually want to work on it. What might be more worthwile is to package AQ up to be an egg(I volunteer for this). That way we could manage the dependency that way(zope could too if it chose to ship with AQ), dieter could continue maintaining AQ, and everything would be peachy. one last point re: Zope: From a marketing perspective(to parrot slinkp), I would think Zope 2 would want to include AdvancedQuery since it is a go-to answer for lots of how do I do sqlish query X in the ZODB type questions. Granted, hurry.query and the z3 catalogs have similar capabilities, but AQ works right now with existing z2 catalogs. -w -- -- d. whit morriss -- - senior engineer, opencore - - http://www.openplans.org - - m: 415-710-8975 - If you don't know where you are, you don't know anything at all Dr. Edgar Spencer, Ph.D., 1995 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
Previously Dieter Maurer wrote: You fetch it from my Zope page and put it into a subversion repository (perferably on a vendor branch) of your choice. Hanno imported it at http://svn.plone.org/svn/collective/AdvancedQuery two days ago. We'll try to keep that synchronised with your work. Wichert. -- Wichert Akkerman [EMAIL PROTECTED]It is simple to make things. http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
On 5 Feb 2007, at 12:22 , Martijn Faassen wrote: Some of the holdup is in the bylaws. The bylaws were, simply put, rather overengineered, and we've been struggling to cut them down so we can actually work with them. This is holding up the IP transfer. Ok. Is there anything us mere mortals can do to speed up this process? Another is of course who is doing the hosting. Currently we're using ZC's infrastructure for SVN. We need to shift it away from ZC's infrastructure at some point to make it easier to give other people access. ZC can say more about this, however. I'm sure we'd find somebody willing to host at least the subversion repository. We just need to get to a point where we can say: Hey, the ZF now owns Zope, who wants to host it? ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
On Mon, February 5, 2007 12:26, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: On 5 Feb 2007, at 12:22 , Martijn Faassen wrote: Some of the holdup is in the bylaws. The bylaws were, simply put, rather overengineered, and we've been struggling to cut them down so we can actually work with them. This is holding up the IP transfer. Ok. Is there anything us mere mortals can do to speed up this process? Another is of course who is doing the hosting. Currently we're using ZC's infrastructure for SVN. We need to shift it away from ZC's infrastructure at some point to make it easier to give other people access. ZC can say more about this, however. I'm sure we'd find somebody willing to host at least the subversion repository. We just need to get to a point where we can say: Hey, the ZF now owns Zope, who wants to host it? can anyone estimate on how much traffic the svn-repos will generate? we have enough space and cpu time available, but traffic is an issue if it exceeds one or two mbits average per month (300-600gb)... regards, jürgen herrmann ___ XLhost.de - eXperts in Linux hosting Jürgen Herrmann Konrad Adenauer Allee 43, DE-93051 Regensburg Fon: +49 (0)700 XLHOSTDE [0700 95467833] Fax: +49 (0)721 151 463027 WEB: http://www.XLhost.de ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
On Mon, 2007-05-02 at 12:26 +0100, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: On 5 Feb 2007, at 12:22 , Martijn Faassen wrote: Another is of course who is doing the hosting. Currently we're using ZC's infrastructure for SVN. We need to shift it away from ZC's infrastructure at some point to make it easier to give other people access. ZC can say more about this, however. I'm sure we'd find somebody willing to host at least the subversion repository. We just need to get to a point where we can say: Hey, the ZF now owns Zope, who wants to host it? I would highly recommend we move to some sort of neutral OSS service that hosts projects like this (ie sf.net). I know plone is evaluating using some of the services at code.google.com (but I don't believe SVN is one of them although I could be mistaken). So perhaps something like svn @ code.google.com would be a route to go? - Rocky -- Rocky Burt ServerZen Software -- http://www.serverzen.com News About The Server (blog) -- http://www.serverzen.net signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
Previously Rocky Burt wrote: On Mon, 2007-05-02 at 12:26 +0100, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: On 5 Feb 2007, at 12:22 , Martijn Faassen wrote: Another is of course who is doing the hosting. Currently we're using ZC's infrastructure for SVN. We need to shift it away from ZC's infrastructure at some point to make it easier to give other people access. ZC can say more about this, however. I'm sure we'd find somebody willing to host at least the subversion repository. We just need to get to a point where we can say: Hey, the ZF now owns Zope, who wants to host it? I would highly recommend we move to some sort of neutral OSS service that hosts projects like this (ie sf.net). I know plone is evaluating using some of the services at code.google.com (but I don't believe SVN is one of them although I could be mistaken). Plone will use svn at google for backup and load distribution purposes: svn.plone.org is going to be synced realtime to both google and another plone.org server, both of which are accessible read-only by anyone. We are also considering storing releases on code.google.com. You can see the current Plone egg and some plone.* packages there already as a test. Wichert. -- Wichert Akkerman [EMAIL PROTECTED]It is simple to make things. http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
Previously Wichert Akkerman wrote: Note that we have the same issue with ZopeVersionControl, which is currently only in CVS. An import of that into subversion would make a lot of us very happy. I asked Jim about this and he told me to just import the current CVS code into svn and go from there, keeping history only in CVS. So I just did just that: ZopeVersionControl can now be found at svn+ssh://svn.zope.org/repos/main/Products.ZopeVersionControl . I don't have CVS commit access so I can't stick a note in CVS HEAD to indicate this move. Can someone please add that? Wichert. -- Wichert Akkerman [EMAIL PROTECTED]It is simple to make things. http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
Previously Tres Seaver wrote:
I looked at my CVS checkout, and noticed that a file ('tests/common.py')
had not been checked in for ZVC 0.3.3. I therefore checked it in,
tagged 0.3.4, and re-imported the SVN version from that tag. Finally, I
added an 'ATTENTION_THIS_AREA_IS_NOW_CLOSED.txt' file and 'cvs rm'ed the
remaining files from the CVS trunk.
Thanks for catching and fixing that!
Wichert.
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
Previously Martin Aspeli wrote: Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Dieter Maurer wrote: Whit (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) reported that AdvancedQuery is going to ship with Plone3 and that packaging would be easier for them if AdvancedQuery were part of the Zope 2 distribution. I fail to find an explanation *why* that is. I'm not quite sure it has to be part of Zope 2 as you install it. Having it in svn.zope.org would go a long, way, though, allowing us to use svn:externals during development and potentially fix issues ourselves as appropriate. Note that we have the same issue with ZopeVersionControl, which is currently only in CVS. An import of that into subversion would make a lot of us very happy. Wichert. -- Wichert Akkerman [EMAIL PROTECTED]It is simple to make things. http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 4 Feb 2007, at 12:47, Wichert Akkerman wrote: I'm not quite sure it has to be part of Zope 2 as you install it. Having it in svn.zope.org would go a long, way, though, allowing us to use svn:externals during development and potentially fix issues ourselves as appropriate. Note that we have the same issue with ZopeVersionControl, which is currently only in CVS. An import of that into subversion would make a lot of us very happy. I think it has been mentioned before, you have to contact Jim. No one outside of ZC is allowed to perform administration tasks that require root access on the box. jens -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFxg2bRAx5nvEhZLIRAgsbAJ0fqkNK+ICKywSGSL72+8PmhD3/FQCgp9m8 zp6dPA3z2z1JYEX7heUuDco= =lHPM -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
yuppie wrote at 2007-2-3 11:44 +0100: ... Unfortunately integrating a product into the Zope core means more than just adjusting the coding style: - As already mentioned in this thread, monkey patches and code like fixPluginIndexes.py have to be resolved. AdvancedQuery contains a monkey patch for CMF - that should not be shipped with Zope core. fixPluginIndexes fixed (maybe meanwhile resolved) bugs in Products.PluginIndexes.common.util.parseIndexRequest. The mentioned CMF monkey patch gives the CatalogTool the new method evalAdvancedQuery, provided CMFCore is installed. I do not see why this monkey patch should not be applied. I am sure that I want to be able to use AdvancedQuery even with a CatalogTool, if both are installed. -- Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
Jens Vagelpohl wrote: On 4 Feb 2007, at 12:47, Wichert Akkerman wrote: I'm not quite sure it has to be part of Zope 2 as you install it. Having it in svn.zope.org would go a long, way, though, allowing us to use svn:externals during development and potentially fix issues ourselves as appropriate. Note that we have the same issue with ZopeVersionControl, which is currently only in CVS. An import of that into subversion would make a lot of us very happy. I think it has been mentioned before, you have to contact Jim. No one outside of ZC is allowed to perform administration tasks that require root access on the box. Oh. Since we have volunteers (like you :)), I wonder why the keys can't be turned over to the foundation by now? Can somebody from the board explain what the hold-up is and what we need to do open access to well established members of the community like Jens? -- http://worldcookery.com -- Professional Zope documentation and training Next Zope 3 training at Camp5: http://trizpug.org/boot-camp/camp5 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 4 Feb 2007, at 18:27, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Note that we have the same issue with ZopeVersionControl, which is currently only in CVS. An import of that into subversion would make a lot of us very happy. I think it has been mentioned before, you have to contact Jim. No one outside of ZC is allowed to perform administration tasks that require root access on the box. Oh. Since we have volunteers (like you :)), I wonder why the keys can't be turned over to the foundation by now? Can somebody from the board explain what the hold-up is and what we need to do open access to well established members of the community like Jens? ZC company policy has changed, it used to be lenient, it no longer is. My take on it right now is this: If I'm required to beg anyone at ZC or chase people at ZC down myself to make this happen I am un- volunteering. I care, but not that much anymore. I'm willing to help, but I won't jump through arbitrary hoops in order to do so. jens -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFxhpKRAx5nvEhZLIRAnCHAJ46Fs6+nsJB7tnPxVKDCptYqXCabACcDuXU LvR2lIpVfZqN/7REHFGDzj0= =nMg+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
--On 4. Februar 2007 18:39:22 +0100 Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 4 Feb 2007, at 18:27, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Note that we have the same issue with ZopeVersionControl, which is currently only in CVS. An import of that into subversion would make a lot of us very happy. I think it has been mentioned before, you have to contact Jim. No one outside of ZC is allowed to perform administration tasks that require root access on the box. Oh. Since we have volunteers (like you :)), I wonder why the keys can't be turned over to the foundation by now? Can somebody from the board explain what the hold-up is and what we need to do open access to well established members of the community like Jens? ZC company policy has changed, it used to be lenient, it no longer is. My take on it right now is this: If I'm required to beg anyone at ZC or chase people at ZC down myself to make this happen I am un-volunteering. I care, but not that much anymore. I'm willing to help, but I won't jump through arbitrary hoops in order to do so. No reason more to enfore the handover of the remaining responsibilities from ZC to the Zope Foundation. We should discuss that on the foundation list. Andreas pgp4UfRwsENOU.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
--On 4. Februar 2007 18:44:38 +0100 Andreas Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --On 4. Februar 2007 18:39:22 +0100 Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 4 Feb 2007, at 18:27, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Note that we have the same issue with ZopeVersionControl, which is currently only in CVS. An import of that into subversion would make a lot of us very happy. I think it has been mentioned before, you have to contact Jim. No one outside of ZC is allowed to perform administration tasks that require root access on the box. Oh. Since we have volunteers (like you :)), I wonder why the keys can't be turned over to the foundation by now? Can somebody from the board explain what the hold-up is and what we need to do open access to well established members of the community like Jens? ZC company policy has changed, it used to be lenient, it no longer is. My take on it right now is this: If I'm required to beg anyone at ZC or chase people at ZC down myself to make this happen I am un-volunteering. I care, but not that much anymore. I'm willing to help, but I won't jump through arbitrary hoops in order to do so. No reason more to enfore the handover of the remaining responsibilities from ZC to the Zope Foundation. We should discuss that on the foundation list. Should be One more reason Andreas pgpTMwc3Sda0W.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote at 2007-2-4 18:35 +0100: Monkey patches should be avoided when they can. I think that's something we don't need to discuss. You think this way but I disagree... There are (potentially) dangerous monkey patches and harmless ones. We discuss about a harmless one: adding a new method when extended functionality is available. The monkey patch to CMFCore.CatalogTool.CatalogTool is necessary to ensure that CatalogTool searching (via evalAdvancedQuery) behaves as usual for this tool (i.e. take View permission and validaty range into account). Integrating a product into Zope is the perfect opportunity to get rid of monkey patches and consolidate the fixes into the main product lines. Therefore, the CMF should rather grow that method itself than having it patched in by Zope. Only in case of a tight integration, i.e. when ZCatalog and CMFCore.CatalogTool can take for granted that AdvancedQuery is available. As I understand you, you are against tight integration of AdvancedQuery. Even if tight integration should be opted for, I will fight for backward compatibility: the monkey patch will stay until both ZCatalog and the CMF have grown the new methods. -- Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote at 2007-2-4 18:35 +0100: ... I think we can leave everything as it is and if Plone needs it in an svn repo, heck, why not do vendor imports? (not in svn.zope.org, of course, since the contributor agreement forbids that) One of the rare cases when I agree with Philipp: Let us keep things as they are. When Zope 2 is eggified (promissed for Zope 2.11), I will make the products available as eggs. People interested in a change history or in their own local changes can always put the products into a version control system. By the way, I heard about very few issues concerning these products, maybe 3 to 5, in their lifetime. Thus, I do not see why you (Plone people) want local changes. -- Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Andreas Jung wrote:
--On 4. Februar 2007 18:12:52 +0100 Dieter Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Andreas Jung wrote at 2007-2-3 08:47 +0100:
...
* my code uses 2 blank indentation rather than the usual 4 blank
(to make it more readable and easier to maintain for me)
The source would have to be reformatted to fit at least in some way
with the Zope standard :-) Any volunteers?
If the code is reformatted, a new maintainer is necessary as well :-)
Anyone else should think about how to deal with this issue...I'm too much
biased :-)
- -1 on reformatting code, especially if we are talking about putting it
in 'repos/main/Products.{AdvancedQuery,ManageableIndex}': the win there
is to have it *possible* for somebody elxe to submit patches, link the
product in via 'svn:externals', etc., without making it harder for
Dieter to maintain.
$ python -c import this | grep purity
Tres.
- --
===
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com
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[Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
--On 4. Februar 2007 19:24:09 -0500 Tres Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Anyone else should think about how to deal with this issue...I'm too
much biased :-)
- -1 on reformatting code, especially if we are talking about putting it
in 'repos/main/Products.{AdvancedQuery,ManageableIndex}': the win there
is to have it *possible* for somebody elxe to submit patches, link the
product in via 'svn:externals', etc., without making it harder for
Dieter to maintain.
The basic question for me is: should *any* code checked in on svn.zope.org
follow the basic code styles like the 4 space rule or only code of the core
component used for building releases? I think we have no law written down
for this problem?!
We all have a legitimate interest to see most of Dieters code in a public
repository in order to use it properly for buildouts or for deploying it to
sites. Someone of you might be interested to convince Dieter being more
flexible and less meticulous.
$ python -c import this | grep purity
+1 on this but this applies always to both sides :-)
Andreas
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[Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
Hi Dieter! Dieter Maurer wrote: Whit (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) reported that AdvancedQuery is going to ship with Plone3 and that packaging would be easier for them if AdvancedQuery were part of the Zope 2 distribution. According to Whit, Alexander Limi seems to be interested to have Managable Index in the Zope 2 distribution, as well. I have no problems to donate AdvancedQuery and/or Managable Index to the Zope Foundation *BUT* I will not modify the code to bring it in line with the different style requirements usually applied to Zope components: e.g. * my code uses 2 blank indentation rather than the usual 4 blank (to make it more readable and easier to maintain for me) * I much prefer unit tests over doctests; thus, AdvancedQuery and Managable Index come with extensive unit tests and no doctests * I use camel case also for parameters and local variables and not only for functions and global objects. Is there interest in AdvancedQuery and/or Managable Index to become part of the Zope 2 distribution under these conditions? These seem to be mature products with a lot of valuable code and documentation. I think the Zope Foundation should count itself lucky to get a donation like that. Unfortunately integrating a product into the Zope core means more than just adjusting the coding style: - As already mentioned in this thread, monkey patches and code like fixPluginIndexes.py have to be resolved. AdvancedQuery contains a monkey patch for CMF - that should not be shipped with Zope core. - There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it. Do we really need two different query methods in the catalog? Two different FieldIndexes, KeywordIndexes and PathIndexes in the core? Or is there a way to merge them or to deprecate one? - ManagableIndex seems to resolve some cataloging issues in the Zope 2 TTW way that are resolved in Zope 3 using adapters. Isn't that a step in the wrong direction? - Should we add new products to the core? I thought we want to move away from products and use python packages instead. The AdvancedQuery code might become part of the ZCatalog package, ManagableIndex might be converted to a non-products package. Of course this is just my opinion. These are no official rules. Cheers, Yuppie ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
yuppie wrote: - Should we add new products to the core? I thought we want to move away from products and use python packages instead. The AdvancedQuery code might become part of the ZCatalog package, ManagableIndex might be converted to a non-products package. There are hardly new, though, they've been around for ages and have enthusiastic users. Those users always found it hard to convince people to adopt them more widely because they were not in the standard repositories and a bit scary - I think any chance to resolve that should be taken. I'm quite bad for reshuffling code just for the sake of aesthetics, but I don't think having them as products should be any kind of barrier until products are officially deprecated (no, I didn't say that, let's not go there this decade). I think the first step is svn.zope.org. That makes them accessible for other people to work on. Shipping with Zope 2.x may or may not be a worthwhile goal in the short term - probably we need someone to cut a branch, see what it would look like and collectively review that. Martin ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
First let me say, that I'm in favour to add these products to Zope in some form, to take the chance to enhance the zcatalog significantly. Am 03.02.2007 um 14:34 schrieb Martin Aspeli: yuppie wrote: - Should we add new products to the core? I thought we want to move away from products and use python packages instead. The AdvancedQuery code might become part of the ZCatalog package, ManagableIndex might be converted to a non-products package. There are hardly new, though, they've been around for ages and have enthusiastic users. Those users always found it hard to convince people to adopt them more widely because they were not in the standard repositories and a bit scary That's clearly a point to make clear, that splitting the code or to do big refactorings needs someone with deep knowledge of the code and its dependancy into the cataloging framework. - I think any chance to resolve that should be taken. I'm quite bad for reshuffling code just for the sake of aesthetics, but I don't think having them as products should be any kind of barrier until products are officially deprecated (no, I didn't say that, let's not go there this decade). +1 I think the first step is svn.zope.org. That makes them accessible for other people to work on. Shipping with Zope 2.x may or may not be a worthwhile goal in the short term - probably we need someone to cut a branch, see what it would look like and collectively review that. Another point is that for example hurry is already using parts of the code. So there are possibilities to look for integration in zope3 too. With regards, __Janko -- Janko Hauser email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mobile: +49 1721 641552 PGP.sig Description: Signierter Teil der Nachricht ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
Replying to my own post, Am 03.02.2007 um 15:14 schrieb Janko Hauser: There are hardly new, though, they've been around for ages and have enthusiastic users. Those users always found it hard to convince people to adopt them more widely because they were not in the standard repositories and a bit scary That's clearly a point to make clear, that splitting the code or to do big refactorings needs someone with deep knowledge of the code and its dependancy into the cataloging framework. What I wanted to express here is, that the inclusion as products is somewhat easier and more clearly defined, than to do a complete integration and restructuring of the whole index framework/code. So I propose to do this in two or more steps. With regards, __Janko PGP.sig Description: Signierter Teil der Nachricht ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
Dieter Maurer wrote: Whit (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) reported that AdvancedQuery is going to ship with Plone3 and that packaging would be easier for them if AdvancedQuery were part of the Zope 2 distribution. I fail to find an explanation *why* that is. According to Whit, Alexander Limi seems to be interested to have Managable Index in the Zope 2 distribution, as well. Again, why? I have no problems to donate AdvancedQuery and/or Managable Index to the Zope Foundation *BUT* I will not modify the code to bring it in line with the different style requirements usually applied to Zope components: e.g. * my code uses 2 blank indentation rather than the usual 4 blank (to make it more readable and easier to maintain for me) * I much prefer unit tests over doctests; thus, AdvancedQuery and Managable Index come with extensive unit tests and no doctests * I use camel case also for parameters and local variables and not only for functions and global objects. Is there interest in AdvancedQuery and/or Managable Index to become part of the Zope 2 distribution under these conditions? With that many +1 votes already, it might seem kinda pointless, but I'm -1. It's not a strong -1 but nevertheless a -1. Here's *why*: * I think Dieter is doing an excellent job at maintaining his products, why should that maintenance now become a burden of the Zope 2 maintainers? Why burden, you might ask? Because it's an alien product that is all of a sudden adopted into Zope. I'd think most of us aren't familiar with its code base, let alone being able to do bugfixes. If we adopt it into Zope core, we're bound to maintaining it forever, no matter what Dieter decides to do... * As Dieter outlines above, he prefers a few different styles. Code in svn.zope.org and *especially* code in Zope core should conform to a certain style. I'm not necessarily talking about doctests vs. unit tests, but a certain kind of code arrangement (and that includes developer-orienteded docs such as doctests nowadays) are appreciated. Why should we go thru the hassle of giving AdvancedQuery a do-over? I don't think anybody would appreciate all that work nor would Dieter probably appreciate his codebase to be changed (well, he *is* willing to donate this thing, so I'm sure he's ok with taking that risk, but still... is it really necessary?). * Plone is shipping with lots of products already, I don't see why it simply can't ship with another one. Seriously, why? Plus, if they're really trying to solve problems for Plone 3, then it seems to be too late already. The target platform, Zope 2.10, is feature-frozen since long. If this is all about Zope 2.11 and future release of Zope, I would like to direct your attention to one of my recent proposals, http://wiki.zope.org/zope2/EggifyingZopesExtensionMechanismQuotProductsQuot, which I have plans for implementing in Zope 2.11. This propsal will allow us to package products like Dieter's excellent ones as Python Eggs and deploy them like any other package. So, if Plone really didn't want to ship with AdvancedQuery et. al., they could simply use the setuptools' dependency mechanism to at least depend on that egg. Hanno Schlichting has shown how powerful zc.buildout can be in this area with 'ploneout' already. It might not be a popular opinion in Zope 2 land where people would like to have as much working out of the box as possible, but I think we oughta think about making Zope 2 rather smaller than bigger (where smaller doesn't mean ship with less stuff but have fewer inter-dependencies so that it's better reusable). An Egg-based deployment mechanism with explicitly defined dependencies will allow us to do so. -- http://worldcookery.com -- Professional Zope documentation and training Next Zope 3 training at Camp5: http://trizpug.org/boot-camp/camp5 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Dieter Maurer wrote: Whit (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) reported that AdvancedQuery is going to ship with Plone3 and that packaging would be easier for them if AdvancedQuery were part of the Zope 2 distribution. I fail to find an explanation *why* that is. I'm not quite sure it has to be part of Zope 2 as you install it. Having it in svn.zope.org would go a long, way, though, allowing us to use svn:externals during development and potentially fix issues ourselves as appropriate. According to Whit, Alexander Limi seems to be interested to have Managable Index in the Zope 2 distribution, as well. Again, why? Probably similar reasoning as above. Note that Plone does not at this time depend on Managable Index, though I know some Plone developers who are enthusiastic about it. * Plone is shipping with lots of products already, I don't see why it simply can't ship with another one. Seriously, why? Plus, if they're really trying to solve problems for Plone 3, then it seems to be too late already. The target platform, Zope 2.10, is feature-frozen since long. We will ship with this. I think the original point that made us nervous is having to get tarballs from dieter.handshake.de, and not having a access to a repository. Whether it ships with Zope or not will probably depend on how valuable people find it. I've not used it myself, but it sounds like it makes the catalog a bit more powerful and usable. It might not be a popular opinion in Zope 2 land where people would like to have as much working out of the box as possible, but I think we oughta think about making Zope 2 rather smaller than bigger (where smaller doesn't mean ship with less stuff but have fewer inter-dependencies so that it's better reusable). An Egg-based deployment mechanism with explicitly defined dependencies will allow us to do so. I completely agree with this. On the other hand, as Andreas points out, if we are monkey patching ZCatalog to address deficiencies, then there may be reasons for tighter integration. I think the first step is to move it to the repository and let the community prod it a little. Martin ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
Martin Aspeli wrote: Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Dieter Maurer wrote: Whit (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) reported that AdvancedQuery is going to ship with Plone3 and that packaging would be easier for them if AdvancedQuery were part of the Zope 2 distribution. I fail to find an explanation *why* that is. I'm not quite sure it has to be part of Zope 2 as you install it. Having it in svn.zope.org would go a long, way, though, allowing us to use svn:externals during development and potentially fix issues ourselves as appropriate. Well, ok, I have nothing against that. It's just that that wasn't mentioned anywhere. * Plone is shipping with lots of products already, I don't see why it simply can't ship with another one. Seriously, why? Plus, if they're really trying to solve problems for Plone 3, then it seems to be too late already. The target platform, Zope 2.10, is feature-frozen since long. We will ship with this. I think the original point that made us nervous is having to get tarballs from dieter.handshake.de, and not having a access to a repository. Whether it ships with Zope or not will probably depend on how valuable people find it. I've not used it myself, but it sounds like it makes the catalog a bit more powerful and usable. Well, the Zope 3 catalog is pretty much useless w/o any extra packages either. But at this point it has become almost trivial to install the necessary packages such as zc.catalog into your instance (using easy_install or zc.buildout). It might not be a popular opinion in Zope 2 land where people would like to have as much working out of the box as possible, but I think we oughta think about making Zope 2 rather smaller than bigger (where smaller doesn't mean ship with less stuff but have fewer inter-dependencies so that it's better reusable). An Egg-based deployment mechanism with explicitly defined dependencies will allow us to do so. I completely agree with this. On the other hand, as Andreas points out, if we are monkey patching ZCatalog to address deficiencies, then there may be reasons for tighter integration. Sure. Perhaps we can look at those deficiencies and sort those out first. I think the first step is to move it to the repository and let the community prod it a little. I'll be absolutely fine with that. -- http://worldcookery.com -- Professional Zope documentation and training Next Zope 3 training at Camp5: http://trizpug.org/boot-camp/camp5 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
Dieter Maurer wrote: I have no problems to donate AdvancedQuery and/or Managable Index to the Zope Foundation That's great, thank you! :) *BUT* I will not modify the code to bring it in line with the different style requirements usually applied to Zope components: e.g. * my code uses 2 blank indentation rather than the usual 4 blank (to make it more readable and easier to maintain for me) This is the only one that I find a bit difficult, because it means that if I were to fix a bug or make a change to the AQ/MI code, I would need to change my editor settings, and if I were making a simultaneous change to any other part of Zope, I'd have to have different settings in different buffers. I think it'd be silly if this was a show stopper, and I understand it'd be a pain to change every file, but how would you feel if someone else changed it for you and made it consistent with everything else? * I much prefer unit tests over doctests; thus, AdvancedQuery and Managable Index come with extensive unit tests and no doctests You're not alone, and I can't imagine that would be a problem for anyone. * I use camel case also for parameters and local variables and not only for functions and global objects. Are we ever consistent on one or the other? Zope 2 specifically has camelCase all over the place. Anyone, +1 for inclusion or at least moving to svn.zope.org. Martin ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: Interest in AdvancedQuery and/or ManagableIndex?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dieter Maurer wrote: Whit (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) reported that AdvancedQuery is going to ship with Plone3 and that packaging would be easier for them if AdvancedQuery were part of the Zope 2 distribution. According to Whit, Alexander Limi seems to be interested to have Managable Index in the Zope 2 distribution, as well. I have no problems to donate AdvancedQuery and/or Managable Index to the Zope Foundation *BUT* I will not modify the code to bring it in line with the different style requirements usually applied to Zope components: e.g. * my code uses 2 blank indentation rather than the usual 4 blank (to make it more readable and easier to maintain for me) * I much prefer unit tests over doctests; thus, AdvancedQuery and Managable Index come with extensive unit tests and no doctests * I use camel case also for parameters and local variables and not only for functions and global objects. Is there interest in AdvancedQuery and/or Managable Index to become part of the Zope 2 distribution under these conditions? +1 from me. Tres - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFw7Pe+gerLs4ltQ4RApLxAJ91UBf1aePQYdJpOhOuFxZfRIqepACgxEF6 +qEijONxSeDNE5EMZldSIkw= =8sl4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
