Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote: > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 07:18, Lennart Regebro wrote: >> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 04:56, Baiju M wrote: >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyG5Qee5wbs >> >> Heh, nice! :-) > > Except that the song in this clip is what weddings in Brazil > traditionally play in the part where the bride walks down the aisle > with her father. > > I kept expecting to see either a bride in white gown or another > wedding reference to appear somewhere on the video :-) Today I just checked what music I used there, it looks like a very famous music related to wedding written 1842: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_March_(Mendelssohn) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Mendelssohn Regard, Baiju M ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
> Ravels Bolero (or some part of it): > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urfjyj4FnUc > > Or some not so well-known piano music from Rachmaninov: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EkeM8Q3Z-A > > Something more theatralic (at 0:23): > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yctfXIqugXc > Or this (at 3:37): > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwiU6P16xU0 LOVE IT! :) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
Am Donnerstag 07 Januar 2010 04:56:33 schrieb Baiju M: > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Alex Clark wrote: > >> BTW, the original meaning of "BlueBream" is > >> same as that of "Zope": > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abramis_ballerus > > > > Cute! FTR, I will be shortening BlueBream to BB. I agree that > > the nickname "Bream" is OK, but that the full name should be > > BlueBream. Lastly I'll say, "We are BlueBream consultants" has > > a nice ring to it. I.e. it's marketable. ;-) > > Creating promotional materials also would be cool :) > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyG5Qee5wbs Very nice! I personally think that Mendelssohns Wedding March somehow fits, but reminds me too much of a wedding nevertheless. I can think of these alternatives out of the box: Ravels Bolero (or some part of it): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urfjyj4FnUc Or some not so well-known piano music from Rachmaninov: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EkeM8Q3Z-A Something more theatralic (at 0:23): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yctfXIqugXc Or this (at 3:37): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwiU6P16xU0 Anyway, keep up the good work, Baiju! Best Regards, Hermann -- herm...@qwer.tk GPG key ID: 299893C7 (on keyservers) FP: 0124 2584 8809 EF2A DBF9 4902 64B4 D16B 2998 93C7 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
I really liked that music for Zope. Substantial, timeless, yet also sweet and humorous. :) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote: > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 07:18, Lennart Regebro wrote: >> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 04:56, Baiju M wrote: >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyG5Qee5wbs >> >> Heh, nice! :-) > > Except that the song in this clip is what weddings in Brazil > traditionally play in the part where the bride walks down the aisle > with her father. > > I kept expecting to see either a bride in white gown or another > wedding reference to appear somewhere on the video :-) I am fan of "brazilian samba music", may be we should try it next time :) or I should look for some music here in India. BTW, to create that video it took only few minutes for me using the http://animoto.com Regards, Baiju M ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 07:18, Lennart Regebro wrote: > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 04:56, Baiju M wrote: >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyG5Qee5wbs > > Heh, nice! :-) Except that the song in this clip is what weddings in Brazil traditionally play in the part where the bride walks down the aisle with her father. I kept expecting to see either a bride in white gown or another wedding reference to appear somewhere on the video :-) Cheers, Leo ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 04:56, Baiju M wrote: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyG5Qee5wbs Heh, nice! :-) -- Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok http://regebro.wordpress.com/ +33 661 58 14 64 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 09:29:10AM -0500, Stephan Richter wrote: > On Monday 04 January 2010, Baiju M wrote: > > I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" > > as "BlueBream". The main use for name is documentation. > > But the package named "bluebream" will not provide > > any part of framework code by itself. All the framework > > code will be in "zope" and "zope.app" namespaces. > > I like the name too. As Simon suggested, a shorter "Bream" might be better. > There is too much blue in technology already.. +1, and I'm also a "Zope 3 programmer". Albertas ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Alex Clark wrote: >> BTW, the original meaning of "BlueBream" is >> same as that of "Zope": >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abramis_ballerus > > Cute! FTR, I will be shortening BlueBream to BB. I agree that > the nickname "Bream" is OK, but that the full name should be > BlueBream. Lastly I'll say, "We are BlueBream consultants" has > a nice ring to it. I.e. it's marketable. ;-) Creating promotional materials also would be cool :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyG5Qee5wbs Regards, Baiju M ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Hermann Himmelbauer wrote: >> +1 on just "bream" from an interested bystander. Somehow the "blue" makes >> me think of microsoft. > > Microsoft, really? I guess it's some blurred combination of the blue color schemes I always associate with Windows, and the blue screen of death.. stuff like that.. > Interesting, I personally think about IBM (Big Blue)... Whoa! I never knew that was a nickname for IBM! You've just explained the mystery of the "Big Blue Disks" I loved getting as a kid. I always wondered why they were called that. :) Well now suddenly I'm feeling very good vibes about the "blue," thanks :) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Hermann Himmelbauer wrote: > Microsoft, really? Interesting, I personally think about IBM (Big Blue)... The Blue Screen of Death definitely signifies Microsoft to me! That also qualifies as a serious bad-vibes indicator. ;-) -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. "Chaos is the score upon which reality is written." --Henry Miller ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
On 2010-01-04, Baiju M wrote: > Hi All, > I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" > as "BlueBream". The main use for name is documentation. > But the package named "bluebream" will not provide > any part of framework code by itself. All the framework > code will be in "zope" and "zope.app" namespaces. FWIW, getting in a late vote here: +1. > BTW, the original meaning of "BlueBream" is > same as that of "Zope": > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abramis_ballerus Cute! FTR, I will be shortening BlueBream to BB. I agree that the nickname "Bream" is OK, but that the full name should be BlueBream. Lastly I'll say, "We are BlueBream consultants" has a nice ring to it. I.e. it's marketable. ;-) > Regards, > Baiju M > ___ > Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) > -- Alex Clark · http://aclark.net Practical Plone 3 · http://tinyurl.com/practical-plone ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
Am Dienstag 05 Januar 2010 16:54:28 schrieb Ethan Jucovy: > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Stephan Richter < > > srich...@cosmos.phy.tufts.edu> wrote: > > On Monday 04 January 2010, Baiju M wrote: > > > I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" > > > as "BlueBream". The main use for name is documentation. > > > But the package named "bluebream" will not provide > > > any part of framework code by itself. All the framework > > > code will be in "zope" and "zope.app" namespaces. > > > > I like the name too. As Simon suggested, a shorter "Bream" might be > > better. There is too much blue in technology already.. > > +1 on just "bream" from an interested bystander. Somehow the "blue" makes > me think of microsoft. Microsoft, really? Interesting, I personally think about IBM (Big Blue)... Best Regards, Hermann -- herm...@qwer.tk GPG key ID: 299893C7 (on keyservers) FP: 0124 2584 8809 EF2A DBF9 4902 64B4 D16B 2998 93C7 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
Em Qua, 2010-01-06 às 19:00 +0530, Baiju M escreveu: > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:43 PM, Gustavo Rahal > wrote: > > P.S - As a ibm employee, there is already too much "blue" going on in my > > day to day work :) > > I am not a native English speaker. So, "blue" is used in more negative > contexts ? > > Regards, > Baiju M Not native English speaker as well :) But what I meant is that ibm is known as "big blue" and tends to use "blue" in many names and theme stuff with blue colors. -- Gustavo Matheus Rahal IBM Linux Technology Center ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:43 PM, Gustavo Rahal wrote: > P.S - As a ibm employee, there is already too much "blue" going on in my > day to day work :) I am not a native English speaker. So, "blue" is used in more negative contexts ? Regards, Baiju M ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
Em Qua, 2010-01-06 às 07:45 +0530, Baiju M escreveu: > Hi All, >Thanks to all those who participated in this discussion so far. > I will try to make baby steps for the project. So, for time being > I will focus on the getting started story (which is somewhat ready) > then documentation, a small website ( http://bluebream.zope.org ) > and before 1.0 release, an upgradation path from Zope 3.4 KGS. > > I am fine with calling the project as "Bream" for short, however "BlueBream" > will remain. But all the framework specific packages will remain in > "zope" and "zope.app" namespaces. May be we can think about "bream" as a > namespace in future. > > I remember the days when I started contributing to Zope project. > Zope developers were eagerly started looking at the larger Python > community with cool technologies emerging out of it like > WSGI, egg, Paste and other web frameworks. As a first step > for adoption, eggification of Zope 3 packages was in radar for many > contributors. I am glad that I was able to accelerate the project > by creating a proposal: > https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2006-October/020858.html > To further accelerate the eggification of "zope.app" packages, > I implemented Jim Fulton's proposal: > https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2006-December/021352.html > (BTW, This is the greatest appraisal I ever received from a FOSS community) > With all the contributors effort, Zope 3 packages became more reusable > by other projects. But the "Zope 3" users were at a loss, they > lost their main development discussion platform itself (zope3-dev list) > and there was no releases. Then Stephan Richter created Zope 3.4 KGS, > that was a good move which helped the existense. > > For a sucessfull web framework, few packages maintained by > people with different interest in not sufficient. With "BlueBream"/"Bream", > I hope we will be able to bring together the "framework" developer community > again. I appreciate all your support for this project. > > Regards, > Baiju M As a new comer in zope community (a few months), I appreciate this move as well. The new name can also be seen as a "excuse" for a stronger and more meaningful statement: There is value in zope3 web app part and we want to continue it's development regardless of the other projects. Having read and recommended to many people "philiKON" zope3 book I felt all the work put into building a coherent and stable web framework was going away. Philipp, please consider a "Web component Development with Bluebream" in the future :) P.S - As a ibm employee, there is already too much "blue" going on in my day to day work :) I would vote for "Bream" only. Regards, -- Gustavo Matheus Rahal IBM Linux Technology Center ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
Hi All, Thanks to all those who participated in this discussion so far. I will try to make baby steps for the project. So, for time being I will focus on the getting started story (which is somewhat ready) then documentation, a small website ( http://bluebream.zope.org ) and before 1.0 release, an upgradation path from Zope 3.4 KGS. I am fine with calling the project as "Bream" for short, however "BlueBream" will remain. But all the framework specific packages will remain in "zope" and "zope.app" namespaces. May be we can think about "bream" as a namespace in future. I remember the days when I started contributing to Zope project. Zope developers were eagerly started looking at the larger Python community with cool technologies emerging out of it like WSGI, egg, Paste and other web frameworks. As a first step for adoption, eggification of Zope 3 packages was in radar for many contributors. I am glad that I was able to accelerate the project by creating a proposal: https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2006-October/020858.html To further accelerate the eggification of "zope.app" packages, I implemented Jim Fulton's proposal: https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2006-December/021352.html (BTW, This is the greatest appraisal I ever received from a FOSS community) With all the contributors effort, Zope 3 packages became more reusable by other projects. But the "Zope 3" users were at a loss, they lost their main development discussion platform itself (zope3-dev list) and there was no releases. Then Stephan Richter created Zope 3.4 KGS, that was a good move which helped the existense. For a sucessfull web framework, few packages maintained by people with different interest in not sufficient. With "BlueBream"/"Bream", I hope we will be able to bring together the "framework" developer community again. I appreciate all your support for this project. Regards, Baiju M ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
Martin Aspeli wrote: > Baiju M wrote: >> On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 11:53 PM, Baiju M wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" >>> as "BlueBream". >> I am unable to make a conclusion out of this discussion as many >> real users of "Zope 3 - the web frame work" is not given +1 >> But there are so many +1 from other framework users like >> Grok,Zope 2,BFG etc. > > This may reflect the number of "pure Zope 3" users still active in the > community, although I'm speculating. > > What I would say, is that we shouldn't discount the votes from people > predominantly associated with Zope 2 or Grok. Those people still have a > stake in Zope, and are still hurt by the "Zope 3 is not a successor to > Zope 2" problem and the "Grok doesn't run on Zope 3, it runs on ZTK > (soon)" problem causing confusion for its users. > > I think we've known for years that Zope 3 has been difficult to market > and identify. For the first time in years, we have an opportunity to > have a much clearer story to the outside world. "Zope 2" is the thing > people have used for a decade and love to love or love to hate. There is > a package of useful web development tools known as the Zope Toolkit, or > ZTK for short. Blue Bream (which will inevitably be shortened to just > "Bream" but I think keeping the longer name is worthwhile) is a > full-stack framework also built on the ZTK. Grok is another full-stack > framework built on the ZTK, with a different emphasis on convention over > configuration. You could diagram the relationship between these things > relatively easily. > > I know we've had one -1 vote on the concept of renaming, and one -1 vote > on the name itself. I'd like to hear from Jim, the Launchpad crew, and > certainly give people some time. But as it stands, even "pure Zope 3" > people are in favour, with you and Stephan +1. > > I think what could happen is this: > >- You keep experimenting with a "quickstart" setup using Paste Script. > You should use the name "Blue Bream" there exclusively, or maybe just > "Bream" for short/internal things like package names. > >- In the meantime, we see if more opinions emerge. This isn't a > decision we should make in two days. > Grrr Cmd+Enter :) To continue: - The ZTK will hopefully stabilise on a "small" ZTK and a bigger ZopeApp KGS. - Get together with Marius, Stephan and anyone else who cares, and see if you can get a Blue Bream KGS that builds on the ZTK and uses the ZopeApp KGS. You probably want to depend on the ZTK and fork ZopeApp, since ZopeApp is just a transitional thing. In the longer run, Blue Bream is going to be the main owner of those things, and can choose which of those packages live or die. - Before you release anything, build bluebream.zope.org, a small and focused website explaining what Blue Bream is, its heritage, and its connection to Zope and the ZTK. Speak to Andreas, who has infrastructure for this kind of thing. - Create/document an upgrade path from "pure Zope 3" of old to Blue Bream. If you get to *that* point, and no-one's shot you down too much, release the whole thing and then try to maintain it. Congratulations, you are now the owner of a next-generation Python framework, built on the power of the ZTK. :) As an aside: I would *not* rename the zope.app.* namespace. Even new Blue Bream-only things can live in zope.app.*. This is the only way to keep a sane upgrade process for people with live Zope 3 applications, who are going to be your biggest audience. Martin -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
Baiju M wrote: > On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 11:53 PM, Baiju M wrote: >> Hi All, >> I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" >> as "BlueBream". > > I am unable to make a conclusion out of this discussion as many > real users of "Zope 3 - the web frame work" is not given +1 > But there are so many +1 from other framework users like > Grok,Zope 2,BFG etc. This may reflect the number of "pure Zope 3" users still active in the community, although I'm speculating. What I would say, is that we shouldn't discount the votes from people predominantly associated with Zope 2 or Grok. Those people still have a stake in Zope, and are still hurt by the "Zope 3 is not a successor to Zope 2" problem and the "Grok doesn't run on Zope 3, it runs on ZTK (soon)" problem causing confusion for its users. I think we've known for years that Zope 3 has been difficult to market and identify. For the first time in years, we have an opportunity to have a much clearer story to the outside world. "Zope 2" is the thing people have used for a decade and love to love or love to hate. There is a package of useful web development tools known as the Zope Toolkit, or ZTK for short. Blue Bream (which will inevitably be shortened to just "Bream" but I think keeping the longer name is worthwhile) is a full-stack framework also built on the ZTK. Grok is another full-stack framework built on the ZTK, with a different emphasis on convention over configuration. You could diagram the relationship between these things relatively easily. I know we've had one -1 vote on the concept of renaming, and one -1 vote on the name itself. I'd like to hear from Jim, the Launchpad crew, and certainly give people some time. But as it stands, even "pure Zope 3" people are in favour, with you and Stephan +1. I think what could happen is this: - You keep experimenting with a "quickstart" setup using Paste Script. You should use the name "Blue Bream" there exclusively, or maybe just "Bream" for short/internal things like package names. - In the meantime, we see if more opinions emerge. This isn't a decision we should make in two days. - If you're happy that your Blue Bream quickstart thing actually works, get together with Marius and Stephan and -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
I like Bream. BlueBream or Blue Bream. Just change the name Zope3 so we get over it eventually. I'm a "zope3" user btw ! 2010/1/5 Lennart Regebro : > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 16:55, Gediminas Paulauskas wrote: >> If we released "Zope 3 the web framework" as version 3.5, little would >> change for existing Zope 3 users since it still includes all zope.app >> packages with backward compatibility imports. Wasn't this the plan >> last year? I see no more confusion than was before, only less. The >> reasons mentioned here are now false, because Zope 3.5 is based on >> ZTK, Zope 2.12 is based on ZTK, and Grok is based on ZTK. Explanations >> written at http://download.zope.org/zope3.4/ are still true, and after >> renaming some occurrences of "Zope 3" to ZTK, Zope 3.5 KGS would be >> the same "Zope 3" thing as Zope 3.4 was. > > Absolutely. But the confusion between Zope 3 and Zope 2 persists. > Renaming Zope 3 in to "Bream" or "Blue Bream" or "BlueBream" (see > there, a good reason for just "Bream") gets rid of that confusion. I > don't think corporate people in general has a problem with renaming. > Renaming would also partly circumvent the "Oh no zope" reaction that > you *still* get from Python people, and which is almost exclusively > based on the unpythonishness of Zope 2. > > I'm not a Zope 3 developer, so I explicitly do not vote, as I don't > think I should have a say. :-) But I think a renaming would be > benefinial. > > But in the end this is yet another "non-decision". It is up to > whoever makes a Zope 3.5 KGS. If, for example, Baiju and Stephan > decides they want to do that, and they decide they want to call it > "Bream", then Bream it is. If say, Jan and Gediminas makes a 3.5 KGS, > and they don't want to rename it, then it will still be called "Zope". > In fact, it's perfectly possible to do both, but that *would* be > confusing as then Bream in fact would become a Zope 3 fork, not a new > name for Zope 3, so that would probably be less than ideal. > > There is also the absolute possibility that no 3.5 KGS ever happens, > in which case this discussion is moot. > > So: Talk less, do more. ;-) > > -- > Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok > http://regebro.wordpress.com/ > +33 661 58 14 64 > ___ > Zope-Dev maillist - zope-...@zope.org > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) > ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 16:55, Gediminas Paulauskas wrote: > If we released "Zope 3 the web framework" as version 3.5, little would > change for existing Zope 3 users since it still includes all zope.app > packages with backward compatibility imports. Wasn't this the plan > last year? I see no more confusion than was before, only less. The > reasons mentioned here are now false, because Zope 3.5 is based on > ZTK, Zope 2.12 is based on ZTK, and Grok is based on ZTK. Explanations > written at http://download.zope.org/zope3.4/ are still true, and after > renaming some occurrences of "Zope 3" to ZTK, Zope 3.5 KGS would be > the same "Zope 3" thing as Zope 3.4 was. Absolutely. But the confusion between Zope 3 and Zope 2 persists. Renaming Zope 3 in to "Bream" or "Blue Bream" or "BlueBream" (see there, a good reason for just "Bream") gets rid of that confusion. I don't think corporate people in general has a problem with renaming. Renaming would also partly circumvent the "Oh no zope" reaction that you *still* get from Python people, and which is almost exclusively based on the unpythonishness of Zope 2. I'm not a Zope 3 developer, so I explicitly do not vote, as I don't think I should have a say. :-) But I think a renaming would be benefinial. But in the end this is yet another "non-decision". It is up to whoever makes a Zope 3.5 KGS. If, for example, Baiju and Stephan decides they want to do that, and they decide they want to call it "Bream", then Bream it is. If say, Jan and Gediminas makes a 3.5 KGS, and they don't want to rename it, then it will still be called "Zope". In fact, it's perfectly possible to do both, but that *would* be confusing as then Bream in fact would become a Zope 3 fork, not a new name for Zope 3, so that would probably be less than ideal. There is also the absolute possibility that no 3.5 KGS ever happens, in which case this discussion is moot. So: Talk less, do more. ;-) -- Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok http://regebro.wordpress.com/ +33 661 58 14 64 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 11:53 PM, Baiju M wrote: > Hi All, > I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" > as "BlueBream". I am unable to make a conclusion out of this discussion as many real users of "Zope 3 - the web frame work" is not given +1 But there are so many +1 from other framework users like Grok,Zope 2,BFG etc. So, for time being I will keep the scope of "bluebream" - the package I created just as a PasteScript template. I will add minimum documentation about it's usage. If we reach any consensus, we can pick it up again. Regards, Baiju M ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
2010/1/5 Martin Aspeli : > Andreas Jung wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Baiju M wrote: >>> Hi All, I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" as >>> "BlueBream". The main use for name is documentation. But the >>> package named "bluebream" will not provide any part of framework >>> code by itself. All the framework code will be in "zope" and >>> "zope.app" namespaces. >> I associate blueberry bagels with cream cheese when reading the name >> "Bluebream". Sorry but this name is pointless and does not solve any issue >> - - it just introduces some more confusion. > > I think if there are people interested in "the web development framework > previously known as Zope 3" - and it seem that there is - we'll need to > call it something. I think continuing to call it "Zope 3" is just > confusing, given that we've factored the ZTK out of Zope 3, and we've > spent ages saying that "Zope 3 is part of Zope 2" and "Zope 3 is part of > Grok". That message was confusing before, and the history since is > making it more confusing still. If we released "Zope 3 the web framework" as version 3.5, little would change for existing Zope 3 users since it still includes all zope.app packages with backward compatibility imports. Wasn't this the plan last year? I see no more confusion than was before, only less. The reasons mentioned here are now false, because Zope 3.5 is based on ZTK, Zope 2.12 is based on ZTK, and Grok is based on ZTK. Explanations written at http://download.zope.org/zope3.4/ are still true, and after renaming some occurrences of "Zope 3" to ZTK, Zope 3.5 KGS would be the same "Zope 3" thing as Zope 3.4 was. I am a Zope 3 developer for two large apps but I don't care about the fish. -- Gediminas Paulauskas Programmer at POV ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Stephan Richter < srich...@cosmos.phy.tufts.edu> wrote: > On Monday 04 January 2010, Baiju M wrote: > > I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" > > as "BlueBream". The main use for name is documentation. > > But the package named "bluebream" will not provide > > any part of framework code by itself. All the framework > > code will be in "zope" and "zope.app" namespaces. > > I like the name too. As Simon suggested, a shorter "Bream" might be better. > There is too much blue in technology already.. > +1 on just "bream" from an interested bystander. Somehow the "blue" makes me think of microsoft. And "bream" is really easy to type on a qwerty keyboard but my fingers trip badly on "bluebream". That l-u-e-b-r-e sequence is hard. -Ethan ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
On Monday 04 January 2010, Baiju M wrote: > I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" > as "BlueBream". The main use for name is documentation. > But the package named "bluebream" will not provide > any part of framework code by itself. All the framework > code will be in "zope" and "zope.app" namespaces. I like the name too. As Simon suggested, a shorter "Bream" might be better. There is too much blue in technology already.. Regards, Stephan -- Entrepreneur and Software Geek Google me. "Zope Stephan Richter" ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 11:28, Andreas Jung wrote: > I associate blueberry bagels with cream cheese when reading the name > "Bluebream". Yummy! -- Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok http://regebro.wordpress.com/ +33 661 58 14 64 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
robert rottermann wrote: [snip] > all the other items bear so little "market value" that even an insider can not > place them. > > Therefore I think either of the two should be part of any new packages name > meant to be recognized by non Zope affectionados. > > Bluebream for Zope I've sometimes called Grok "Zope Grok", but there's a value if establishing a new brand as well. Grok, Zope 2 and Blue Bream would all be unified as users of the Zope Toolkit. You can also do a lot with domain names to give a unified sense, we have grok.zope.org and we could also have docs.zope.org/bluebream or something like that. And with web page layouts. Anyway, the BlueBream documentation would certainly talk about Zope anyway. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
Andreas Jung wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Baiju M wrote: >> Hi All, I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" as >> "BlueBream". The main use for name is documentation. But the >> package named "bluebream" will not provide any part of framework >> code by itself. All the framework code will be in "zope" and >> "zope.app" namespaces. > I associate blueberry bagels with cream cheese when reading the name > "Bluebream". Sorry but this name is pointless and does not solve any issue > - - it just introduces some more confusion. I think if there are people interested in "the web development framework previously known as Zope 3" - and it seem that there is - we'll need to call it something. I think continuing to call it "Zope 3" is just confusing, given that we've factored the ZTK out of Zope 3, and we've spent ages saying that "Zope 3 is part of Zope 2" and "Zope 3 is part of Grok". That message was confusing before, and the history since is making it more confusing still. Blue Bream is as arbitrary as anything. I think the fact that it has some connection to Zope is kind of cute. It's also relatively Google-friendly, and pretty easy to remember. There are worse names, even if it makes you think about bagels and cheese. ;) Martin -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Baiju M wrote: > Hi All, I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" as > "BlueBream". The main use for name is documentation. But the > package named "bluebream" will not provide any part of framework > code by itself. All the framework code will be in "zope" and > "zope.app" namespaces. I associate blueberry bagels with cream cheese when reading the name "Bluebream". Sorry but this name is pointless and does not solve any issue - - it just introduces some more confusion. Andreas - -- ZOPYX Limited \ zopyx group Charlottenstr. 37/1 \ The full-service network for your D-72070 Tübingen \ Python, Zope and Plone projects www.zopyx.com, i...@zopyx.com \ www.zopyxgroup.com - E-Publishing, Python, Zope & Plone development, Consulting -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAktDFF0ACgkQCJIWIbr9KYzp/gCghnV0E9zzBWh+9v9npxpdecIv WkMAoJZ4HbHp5/RIldo8pv5YjD4a/rdb =6TbB -END PGP SIGNATURE- <>___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
Am 04.01.2010, 19:23 Uhr, schrieb Baiju M : > Hi All, > I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" > as "BlueBream". The main use for name is documentation. > But the package named "bluebream" will not provide > any part of framework code by itself. All the framework > code will be in "zope" and "zope.app" namespaces. - 1 even though I'm hardly a developer. Needed to check the date on this - but it's only January not April. I remember when Zope Magazine ran with the fish as its logo and it made little sense to me then even though it was explained. :-( Despite the number of votes in favour I do not understand the need for rebranding and especially not just for the documentation. Where has the discussion come from? Referring to the orginally extremely contrived name doesn't do it for me. But if a new name is required "Project Blue" or just plain "Blue" would be preferrable. Happy New Year to everyone! Charlie -- Charlie Clark Managing Director Clark Consulting & Research German Office Helmholtzstr. 20 Düsseldorf D- 40215 Tel: +49-211-600-3657 Mobile: +49-178-782-6226 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martin Aspeli wrote: > Jan Ulrich Hasecke wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> On 05.01.10 08:36, Martin Aspeli wrote: >>> +1. It puts the final nail in the Zope 3 coffin and allows a reborn >>> vampire to emerge from slumber. >> Ok, we all hate the damage that Zope 3 did and I have no problem to call >> one of the x Zope Webframeworks "Bluebream", but I would like to save >> the trademark from vanishing completely. >> >> What we have now are a bunch of Webframeworks built upon the ZTK. One of >> these frameworks is called Zope 2 for historical reasons. So if you tell >> the Zope story, you might end up with a story without a hero: > > Maybe we'll go back to the future, so the framework is Zope and the > version number is 2. :-) +1 Before Zope 3 Zope 1 and 2 were "Zope". I don't see why that should change. With the "devolution" of Zope 3 it is only logical to move the name "Zope" back to Zope 2. >> We have the ZTK in the center and some other peripheral libraries and we >> have Grok, Zope2, Bluebream, BFG, bobo and Humpty Dumpty, all great >> frameworks. We can even call them Zope Frameworks, but where is Zope in >> this story? What is Zope? Zope 2 is Zope. >> Possible solution: >> If all of the ZTK is in the namespace zope someday, why don't we call >> the ZTK "Zope", as it seems to be the heart of all these webframeworks? It is not at the heart of all those frameworks. The ZTK is used by some of them, to a varying degree. > The Z in ZTK stands for Zope. It's not useful "on its own", though, so > calling it just "Zope" would be confusing as hell. I fully agree. jens -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAktDBNQACgkQRAx5nvEhZLKWLACeKD4uO9Q3b95/RLfDN7Ux/cJM EdQAoLYWBoDZT5H0q2zkpffF5aQ9enYY =UWM9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
Jan Ulrich Hasecke wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 05.01.10 08:36, Martin Aspeli wrote: >> +1. It puts the final nail in the Zope 3 coffin and allows a reborn >> vampire to emerge from slumber. > > Ok, we all hate the damage that Zope 3 did and I have no problem to call > one of the x Zope Webframeworks "Bluebream", but I would like to save > the trademark from vanishing completely. > > What we have now are a bunch of Webframeworks built upon the ZTK. One of > these frameworks is called Zope 2 for historical reasons. So if you tell > the Zope story, you might end up with a story without a hero: Maybe we'll go back to the future, so the framework is Zope and the version number is 2. :-) > We have the ZTK in the center and some other peripheral libraries and we > have Grok, Zope2, Bluebream, BFG, bobo and Humpty Dumpty, all great > frameworks. We can even call them Zope Frameworks, but where is Zope in > this story? What is Zope? > > Possible solution: > If all of the ZTK is in the namespace zope someday, why don't we call > the ZTK "Zope", as it seems to be the heart of all these webframeworks? The Z in ZTK stands for Zope. It's not useful "on its own", though, so calling it just "Zope" would be confusing as hell. > Then we can tell a story where there are different cool webframeworks > based on Zope (former ZTK) which is a well defined set of libraries to > do component-based web-development. Please, let's not make anything "former ZTK". That name is just starting to stick. Martin -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
Hi there, On 01/04/2010 07:23 PM, Baiju M wrote: > Hi All, > I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" > as "BlueBream". The main use for name is documentation. > But the package named "bluebream" will not provide > any part of framework code by itself. All the framework > code will be in "zope" and "zope.app" namespaces. > > BTW, the original meaning of "BlueBream" is > same as that of "Zope": > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abramis_ballerus Oh cool. +1 -- Christian Theune · c...@gocept.com gocept gmbh & co. kg · forsterstraße 29 · 06112 halle (saale) · germany http://gocept.com · tel +49 345 1229889 0 · fax +49 345 1229889 1 Zope and Plone consulting and development ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 09:16, Jan Ulrich Hasecke wrote: > Possible solution: > If all of the ZTK is in the namespace zope someday, why don't we call > the ZTK "Zope", as it seems to be the heart of all these webframeworks? If Zope 2 disappears, which still is at least years in the future, then I'd expect that people start calling The Zope Toolkit just "Zope" out of pure laziness. But that is still way ahead in a fuzzy future. -- Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok http://regebro.wordpress.com/ +33 661 58 14 64 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05.01.10 08:36, Martin Aspeli wrote: > +1. It puts the final nail in the Zope 3 coffin and allows a reborn > vampire to emerge from slumber. Ok, we all hate the damage that Zope 3 did and I have no problem to call one of the x Zope Webframeworks "Bluebream", but I would like to save the trademark from vanishing completely. What we have now are a bunch of Webframeworks built upon the ZTK. One of these frameworks is called Zope 2 for historical reasons. So if you tell the Zope story, you might end up with a story without a hero: We have the ZTK in the center and some other peripheral libraries and we have Grok, Zope2, Bluebream, BFG, bobo and Humpty Dumpty, all great frameworks. We can even call them Zope Frameworks, but where is Zope in this story? What is Zope? Possible solution: If all of the ZTK is in the namespace zope someday, why don't we call the ZTK "Zope", as it seems to be the heart of all these webframeworks? Then we can tell a story where there are different cool webframeworks based on Zope (former ZTK) which is a well defined set of libraries to do component-based web-development. juh -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.10 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAktC9VUACgkQPUzUEFbILMTiaACeKozFqtbZadk7qVRfKnoXvagY 6XUAnid2GsCtrOhkUL3SHmOK0rD6vplU =YT9A -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
Am 05.01.2010 08:13, schrieb Jan Ulrich Hasecke: > > Am 05.01.2010 um 00:43 schrieb Hermann Himmelbauer: >> Although I tend to give you right, as probably no one will get the "fish >> connection" and therefore a new name has to be raised up, I vote for >> BlueBream, as this indicates something very new, which frees itself from >> those endless "Zope 3, Zope 3 Application Server, Zope blah blah..." >> considerations. > > And getting an endless discussion about Zope, Zope Toolkit, Zope 2, Grok, > Bluebream, repoze.bfg … > > I am just creating a German broschure about Zope and we are relaunching > zope.de these days, and I can tell you it is hell to explain what Zope is. > > What's in a name? I don't mind having a name for a reborn Zope 3 and > Bluebream might be ok. > > But we must keep an eye on our trademark "Zope". > > What is "Zope" if we have > > - Zope Toolkit > - Zope 2 > - Grok > - Bluebream > - BFG > > Seems that there is no Zope anymore. ;-) > > juh I agree, we have two names that ar known to a wider audience: Zope and Plone. all the other items bear so little "market value" that even an insider can not place them. Therefore I think either of the two should be part of any new packages name meant to be recognized by non Zope affectionados. Bluebream for Zope BlueZope Bluebream gone Zope what ever robert ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 08:36, Martin Aspeli wrote: > +1. It puts the final nail in the Zope 3 coffin and allows a reborn > vampire to emerge from slumber. Vampire Fish! Aaaargh! -- Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok http://regebro.wordpress.com/ +33 661 58 14 64 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
Baiju M wrote: > Hi All, > I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" > as "BlueBream". The main use for name is documentation. > But the package named "bluebream" will not provide > any part of framework code by itself. All the framework > code will be in "zope" and "zope.app" namespaces. > > BTW, the original meaning of "BlueBream" is > same as that of "Zope": > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abramis_ballerus +1. It puts the final nail in the Zope 3 coffin and allows a reborn vampire to emerge from slumber. Martin -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Jan Ulrich Hasecke wrote: > > Am 05.01.2010 um 00:43 schrieb Hermann Himmelbauer: >> Although I tend to give you right, as probably no one will get the "fish >> connection" and therefore a new name has to be raised up, I vote for >> BlueBream, as this indicates something very new, which frees itself from >> those endless "Zope 3, Zope 3 Application Server, Zope blah blah..." >> considerations. > > And getting an endless discussion about Zope, Zope Toolkit, Zope 2, Grok, > Bluebream, repoze.bfg … > > I am just creating a German broschure about Zope and we are relaunching > zope.de these days, and I can tell you it is hell to explain what Zope is. > > What's in a name? I don't mind having a name for a reborn Zope 3 and > Bluebream might be ok. > > But we must keep an eye on our trademark "Zope". > > What is "Zope" if we have > > - Zope Toolkit > - Zope 2 > - Grok > - Bluebream > - BFG > > Seems that there is no Zope anymore. ;-) There is "bobo" also. http://bobo.digicool.com/more.html Regards, Baiju M ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
Am 05.01.2010 um 00:43 schrieb Hermann Himmelbauer: > Although I tend to give you right, as probably no one will get the "fish > connection" and therefore a new name has to be raised up, I vote for > BlueBream, as this indicates something very new, which frees itself from > those endless "Zope 3, Zope 3 Application Server, Zope blah blah..." > considerations. And getting an endless discussion about Zope, Zope Toolkit, Zope 2, Grok, Bluebream, repoze.bfg … I am just creating a German broschure about Zope and we are relaunching zope.de these days, and I can tell you it is hell to explain what Zope is. What's in a name? I don't mind having a name for a reborn Zope 3 and Bluebream might be ok. But we must keep an eye on our trademark "Zope". What is "Zope" if we have - Zope Toolkit - Zope 2 - Grok - Bluebream - BFG Seems that there is no Zope anymore. ;-) juh smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
I got the fish connection straight away. Not sure its a good move. T On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 7:43 AM, Hermann Himmelbauer wrote: > Am Montag 04 Januar 2010 20:16:50 schrieb Jan Ulrich Hasecke: > > On 04.01.10 19:23, Baiju M wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" > > > as "BlueBream". The main use for name is documentation. > > > > Coming from marketing I strongly suggest to think twice or better thrice > > before inventing the next new name in Zope world. There are already too > > many of them. > > Although I tend to give you right, as probably no one will get the "fish > connection" and therefore a new name has to be raised up, I vote for > BlueBream, as this indicates something very new, which frees itself from > those endless "Zope 3, Zope 3 Application Server, Zope blah blah..." > considerations. > > +1 > > Best Regards, > Hermann > > -- > herm...@qwer.tk > GPG key ID: 299893C7 (on keyservers) > FP: 0124 2584 8809 EF2A DBF9 4902 64B4 D16B 2998 93C7 > ___ > Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) > ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
Have you considered just "Bream" ? ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
Am Montag 04 Januar 2010 20:16:50 schrieb Jan Ulrich Hasecke: > On 04.01.10 19:23, Baiju M wrote: > > Hi All, > > I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" > > as "BlueBream". The main use for name is documentation. > > Coming from marketing I strongly suggest to think twice or better thrice > before inventing the next new name in Zope world. There are already too > many of them. Although I tend to give you right, as probably no one will get the "fish connection" and therefore a new name has to be raised up, I vote for BlueBream, as this indicates something very new, which frees itself from those endless "Zope 3, Zope 3 Application Server, Zope blah blah..." considerations. +1 Best Regards, Hermann -- herm...@qwer.tk GPG key ID: 299893C7 (on keyservers) FP: 0124 2584 8809 EF2A DBF9 4902 64B4 D16B 2998 93C7 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Baiju M wrote: > Hi All, > I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" > as "BlueBream". The main use for name is documentation. > But the package named "bluebream" will not provide > any part of framework code by itself. All the framework > code will be in "zope" and "zope.app" namespaces. I like it! I only wish we'd thought of it eight years ago, when we first started hacking on the thing we mistakenly called "Zope 3". Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAktCZ8UACgkQ+gerLs4ltQ5RjgCfRsnwNI03qkeN9tMFSL+EieAD H6YAoKQYRuQ8xLz1PPMzVZu8xmYiczRA =wnlD -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
Baiju M wrote: > I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" > as "BlueBream". +1 Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Shane Hathaway wrote:
> Jan Ulrich Hasecke wrote:
>> On 04.01.10 19:23, Baiju M wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>> I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work"
>>> as "BlueBream". The main use for name is documentation.
>> Coming from marketing I strongly suggest to think twice or better thrice
>> before inventing the next new name in Zope world. There are already too
>> many of them.
>
> Well, the name "Zope 3" is effectively dead, yet there are still a
> number of developers who want to work on it and improve it. Those
> developers need to rename and regroup. BlueBream is a clever name and I
> think it's a great idea. Once it's released, BlueBream will probably be
> on my short list of preferred platforms.
+1
It would also allow us to stamp out the "Zope 3" name, which continues
to be confusing to newcomers ("Zope 3 must be the replacement for Zope 2").
jens
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Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 21:44, Shane Hathaway wrote: > Well, the name "Zope 3" is effectively dead, yet there are still a > number of developers who want to work on it and improve it. Those > developers need to rename and regroup. BlueBream is a clever name and I > think it's a great idea. Once it's released, BlueBream will probably be > on my short list of preferred platforms. I agree completely. -- Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok http://regebro.wordpress.com/ +33 661 58 14 64 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
Jan Ulrich Hasecke wrote: > On 04.01.10 19:23, Baiju M wrote: >> Hi All, >> I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" >> as "BlueBream". The main use for name is documentation. > > Coming from marketing I strongly suggest to think twice or better thrice > before inventing the next new name in Zope world. There are already too > many of them. Well, the name "Zope 3" is effectively dead, yet there are still a number of developers who want to work on it and improve it. Those developers need to rename and regroup. BlueBream is a clever name and I think it's a great idea. Once it's released, BlueBream will probably be on my short list of preferred platforms. Shane ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04.01.10 19:23, Baiju M wrote: > Hi All, > I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" > as "BlueBream". The main use for name is documentation. Coming from marketing I strongly suggest to think twice or better thrice before inventing the next new name in Zope world. There are already too many of them. juh -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.10 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAktCPqIACgkQPUzUEFbILMQ6ugCeMdNHrABMNOCtIY8YM+Z+9c9e AsUAoOB/BVIaPxQFLiVZAV3wJQXSL823 =tcYv -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream
Strong +1 from me (although my vote is likely not meaningful) Baiju M wrote: > Hi All, > I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work" > as "BlueBream". The main use for name is documentation. > But the package named "bluebream" will not provide > any part of framework code by itself. All the framework > code will be in "zope" and "zope.app" namespaces. > > BTW, the original meaning of "BlueBream" is > same as that of "Zope": > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abramis_ballerus > > Regards, > Baiju M > ___ > Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) > ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
