I'm still voting for touch interface
Not to be pedantic, but note that there isn't any voting
here. Students come up with a proposal for something
they'd be interested in working on for the summer, and
the prospective mentors order them and fill however
many slots we get (short version). I'd
given that that port was done many releases of ios ago, it
is likly that a different step 0 would be required: bring
the ios drawterm port back to life.
Certainly. It doesn't currently build. Old binaries start up but
quickly crash. From memory, I don't believe keyboard input
currently works.
Folks:
If you're thinking about applying to GSoC, do it
quick: students have just over two days to apply. The
application period ends at 19:00 UTC this Friday. We're
seeing some really excellent proposals.
Prospective mentors, if you've not signed up in
Melange yet, you should do
Folks:
Just a reminder that the student application period is
currently open. If you're a student and you're considering
spending your summer on Plan 9 or friends, I strongly urge
you to get an application in soon. Having an application in
the system ensures that mentors can see it with
Welcome to the party.
On Mar 10, 2014, at 10:41 , arn...@skeeve.com wrote:
0. How to see my IP address? Cat a file in /net/... somewhere?
As Charles said, 'cat /net/ipselftab'. You most likely want the lines
with 'u' in the flags filed (third column), which will most likely include
just the
On Feb 27, 2014, at 12:31, Ramakrishnan Muthukrishnan vu3...@gmail.com wrote:
Always use a powered hub with the Pi – it can't supply bugger all for power
out its USB ports.
Thank you Lyndon, Steve and Erik. I will try a powered hub tomorrow
and also get another keyboard/mouse.
Based on my
Good news: the list or organizations for this year's Google
Summer of Code came out a bit under an hour ago, and
we've been accepted! Much thanks to everyone who's
helped out, particularly those of you who worked on our
ideas page.
We can certainly always use more work on the wiki, but if
you'd
This is all my read on the situation only. I use 9atom and track
the mainline closely, but only casually track 9front.
The mainline Plan 9 distribution from Bell Labs is managed very
conservatively, from an external point of view. Both 9atom and,
later, 9front were started because that didn't
Alright folks: the application is nearly done and is looking good, I've
refreshed the GSoC pages on our wiki a bit (and am continuing to do so), and
created the 2014 ideas page. I'm going to go through recent 9fans traffic and
add a few items that've been discussed here, but this is where we
I mostly agree with Erik (I don't think it's *quite* as bad as presented, but
certainly in the ballpark, and it's worth erring in that direction).
In addition, one other thing to note about hardware projects in GSoC: you
have to make sure that the student, the mentor, and the backup mentor all
Yes, I am expecting to put forward an application on our behalf again. It's not
as early as you might think: much of the schedule is shifted earlier this year.
Org applications open in ~3 weeks.
i have some suggestions for projects... would you like to hear them?...
Sure. You are, of course,
Any suggestion?
There is no better answer to this question. You are advised to
read The Unix and the Echo[1], by Doug McIlroy, and Russ Cox's
adaptation for our system, The Plan 9 and the Echo[2].
If you need different behavior than what's there, you want
something other than echo.
[1]
On Jan 6, 2014, at 11:40 , Aram Hăvărneanu ara...@mgk.ro wrote:
and the 9front guys have everything in a hg repo
on Google Code
9front exists precisely because the 9front authors considered Plan 9
closed. Using it as an example of openness is the ultimate in
hypocrisy.
That is not what
Conor wrote:
...i'm trying to get this openssh (for V2) to use port 22...
If you don't specifically need the openssh version for some
reason, I highly recommend the newer native ssh2 port. In
addition to neat features like the /net entry, it is more
robust and generally more consistent with the
On Dec 16, 2013, at 16:47 , Blake McBride bl...@mcbride.name wrote:
All that is false when you take into account 9Front and 9Atom.
I run and highly recommend 9atom, but what you'd said is false even
just taking into account the mainline distribution from Bell Labs. It is
updated regularly, but
I believe the rules are different when the work is research, sponsored
by public money. People are getting research grants to work on nix.
who is getting grants to work on nix?
And how do I get in on that?
Someone tell me how to get money for working on nix and this thread
becomes useful.
You may be interested in what David Hoskin is doing for one of our
GSoC projects:
https://bitbucket.org/dhoskin/9webdraw
He's been producing weekly status updates, which you can follow
along with over on the plan9-gsoc google group:
http://groups.google.com/group/plan9-gsoc
It's
I think this list and #plan9 on freenode are your best options. I
don't believe many people are using the 9gridchan stuff directly
at this point, but all the fundamentals are the same as any other
Plan 9 system. It may require a bit of poking, but I'm sure folks in
one of those two places can help
FWIW, file on Plan 9 knows about these well enough to at least
distinguish (386 | amd64 | 32-bit power) Mach-O executables.
The plan9 and p9p versions have diverged more than I'd have
expected, but it should be easy to import.
Anthony
I'm in the middle of a medium-size python project. It would be
really helpful if the plumber could do things like look up things
in python's dot notation. Anyone have plumbing rules or helper
functions they'd like to share for python work with acme and
plumber on p9p?
Anthony
Erik's explanation certainly makes sense, but here's an
alternative possibility. In the past, I've set up the bios on
a system a certain way, then accidentally written to
#r/nvram (which isn't really useful on a PC), and had the
bios reset to factory defaults. Behavior of the bios after
writing
On Jul 2, 2013, at 22:18 , Rob Pike robp...@gmail.com wrote:
I may be the only person in the world who works like this, and is
therefore happy to move not one but two hands off the keyboard to use
2-d input devices.
This reminds me of Engelbart's Mother of All Demos, with his mouse
and the
I can't find a record of it quickly (mk and D don't lend themselves to
helpful searches), but I feel like we had this conversation about a year
ago, no?
Summary, from my memory:
Some people would prefer it, others not. Keeping intermediaries and
failed targets around is often helpful for
is it decent?
Yes!*
I wouldn't try to run google or wikipedia on it, but I've run a
few small corporate or community sites with werc on unix
and it's done fine.
Anthony
* You haven't defined your terms, so I'm going to assume
whatever definition I like.
On Jun 3, 2013, at 15:50 , s...@9front.org wrote:
Richard mentioned fixing the snapshots bug in fossil. This
is about as close as we've come to examining the technical
issues.
No: this *is* examining the technical issues. Richard has done
actual engineering here; it's moderately depressing
I give out accounts on 9srv (apologies to those in my backlog queue; soon). I'm
out of the country for a few days but if you follow the instructions for a
request on the wiki I'm happy to help out.
That said, I agree with Richard: installing the system is educational.
On May 24, 2013, at 7:45,
i am using the memdraw from p9p which fixes a number of
bad drawing cases. (no more blue pngs.) and i don't use
vnc, so it's hard for me to replicate.
I use 9atom on the pi daily and vncv often a d have never observed this
behavior.
On Mar 1, 2013, at 10:58, Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote:
This relies on gcc running everywhere p9p runs...
s/gcc/sufficiently modern gcc/
I think that's the bigger issue. How far back in time is p9p looking to support
platforms from? I have at least one box in the basement with a much
Yes, this was all put up in response to Arnold's forwarding my inquiry. I
wasn't on the mail where permission for posting was given, so wasn't sure how
widely to publicize the delivery. Now that that's all cleared up: much thanks
to Arnold for tracking this down (and Mike Lesk, of course).
I
On Feb 26, 2013, at 10:29, Jeff Sickel j...@corpus-callosum.com wrote:
1) You really don’t want to use this. It’s old and slow and only
works well on 8-bit displays.
I believe that's about the old X11 port. fgb's equis is much newer and nicer
(aside from, y'know, X11). That's the one
I ported Exuberant Ctags and added an output format suitable for acme. I'm not
at a real computer just now, but I announced it on the list. I believe it's in
my contrib directory, /n/sources/contrib/anothy.
On Jan 17, 2013, at 7:50, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
I'd
I'm using a new-ish Apple keyboard here. It works well except that (a) about
twice a day or so, the control née caps lock key misses a key up event (tapping
it again solves it), and (b) the fn key (and therefore the things accessed by
it) does nothing.
I originally had all sorts of problems
I think the wear-levelling on these is sufficient that you can run a
normal fossil file system for quite a while before it wears out.
Or, of course, just don't run a local file system at all. This is Plan 9,
after all. Using the fs in the basement has worked great for me
throughout. You then
On Nov 12, 2012, at 21:15 , Phineas Pett phineas.p...@gmail.com wrote:
Ah, thanks. The manual has answered a lot of my questions so far, but
apparently I need to read more carefully; but still, if I am logged
into a remote system in a different time zone, shouldn't my client be
able to
That name has referred to at least two, possibly three,
distinct and unrelated projects. I don't believe any of
them are still ongoing. I also don't think any of them
were aimed at becoming what i'd call a production
resource. What is it you're looking for?
I suspect it just that we disagree. In the most common case, I don't really
care whether such things get deleted. I sometimes very much want them
not to be deleted, because they contain interesting information on the
failure mode. I don't believe I've ever explicitly wanted them to be
deleted.
i'm certain i've seen this, but i can't reproduce it: is there a
method for getting the srv files created by p9p in $namespace
mounted under plan9? attempting to do so under drawterm
objects Operation not supported on socket.
Is anyone running p9p's (x11) rio on OS X? I get *very* bad
results. Window borders seem to only fill about half their
window, and content behaves strangely. See this snippet:
http://dalet.strand1.com/buggeredX11.png
That's xclock, xman, and an xterm, no other p9p programs;
drawterm
you don't want plan 9 on an 8 bit machine.
Which, of course, doesn't say anything about wanting styx/9p
on such a machine. Every time we get to this point in this
(recurring) conversation, I'm compelled to make sure everyone
has seen the excellent Styx on a Brick paper, describing work
to export
On May 31, 2012, at 0:10, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
This proper English is not the language of the English people...
The English have no respect for their language, and will not teach their
children to speak it. They spell it so abominably that no man can teach
himself what it sounds like. It
The fedex command (like ups and usps) work by scraping the HTML on the
public web site. That changes fairly often, and fedex co need updates each
time. It's not terribly difficult, but it's tedious and frequent. I end up
tweaking
these about every other time I want to track a package.
Most
The published APIs didn't seem to lend themselves to a
simple screen-scrape.
Well, they're mostly XML/SOAP, which is a pain, but they're not too rough as
such things go. Certainly they change a lot less than the web pages do, so
even if you're just using exactly the same techniques on what's
This is a bit silly. Zerox here (in the context of acme/Plan 9) has a
well-understood meaning. Obvious etymology aside, it's essentially a made-up
word here. It's beneficial that it isn't a false cognate to some action, since
the behavior is not obvious a priori (in the normal case of xeroxing
You did not misunderstand. I'm currently traveling. I return late
monday, and will deal with this (and the other similar requests I
got) within a day or two thereafter.
On May 24, 2012, at 4:31 , John Francis Lee wrote:
I wrote a couple of emails to a...@9srv.net but never got a reply ... did I
On May 20, 2012, at 13:29 , David du Colombier wrote:
echo fsys main create /tmp sys sys d775 /srv/fscons
turn that /tmp into /active/tmp i think, no?
also, for the original question: as a quick hack to get around
this, i believe you could run mntgen on / so that /tmp magically
shows up when
On May 20, 2012, at 10:43 , Burton Samograd wrote:
Could somebody explain to me why there is no concept of
chown on plan9 and what is the plan9 way around changing
the owners and groups of files? Thanks.
it's simply not part of the model. we tend to use groups for many
things modern unixes
On May 19, 2012, at 13:37 , Akshat Kumar wrote:
Both upas and nupas die instantly on my
mail box. I've gotten tired of filtering through
my mail for (n)upas choking hazards. What
frail software.
I'd be curious what the failures were (and I bet Erik would,
too). (o)upas used to have a hard
On May 14, 2012, at 23:57 , Matthew Veety wrote:
My 16,000 message inbox usually make nupas and upas
shit the bed. I've never had specific messages kill it though.
Note that once updating to nupas, you should then (manually)
convert your mailbox to the new format. I've had mailboxes of
several
there used to be that `9grid' thingie (can't find much of it anymore), which
offered free accounts to anyone who bothered asking.
there was a public list of user accounts on some page; IIRC well over 50.
some
had custom face(7)s.
9grid is a bit of an overloaded term, but I think you're
On May 14, 2012, at 7:54 , IainWS wrote:
However things like who handles legal issues in the project, who is
the release manager ( if there is going to be another release ), a
decision maker - and so on, are some of the answers I am looking
for. Is there funding for the project coming from
This looks pretty well done - a good beginner's hands-on view to
getting to know the system.
In the interest of addressing the resources ... all in one place issue,
though, I would encourage you to also contribute to the wiki[1]. I'm
not suggesting everything you're putting on your blog belongs
Can anyone please zip the docs and email them to the group?
That is almost universally considered very bad form on mailing lists.
You already have access to everything you need: the papers are
available in HTML, PS, and PDF online:
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/
and there is a
Hi. Do the postscript / PDF files available from http://plan9.bell-labs.com
reflect the current state of the system? I'm curious about both the reference
manual and the various files from /sys/doc.
They do not. I've only verified that the most recent changes are not in there; I
can't say how
Stick with the source if you have doubts.
Actually, that's not even necessary. The online HTML
version gets the latest changes. You'll only need the
sources if you want to generate PS/PDF explicitly, say
for printing.
Anthony
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Is anyone updating at least the troff versions of the papers? That is,
if I go with the source, will I get something (more) current?
It varies by paper. Some are updated, some not. The papers on the
compiler suite get some updates, but the 8½ paper not. That paper,
for example, provides a
Great! Graphics support at this point, or is it still in the cpu server stage?
The version on sources, at least, doesn't seem to drive video. There are
pretty good notes on what works and what doesn't in that directory, in
particular words and notes/*.
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I mean can not boot from DVD, I don't know why.
You could / should provide more information than this, though.
Where in the process does it fail? What messages are printed?
Some details on the system (type of disk controller, how and
where the DVD is connected, c) might also help.
Anthony
On Apr 3, 2012, at 4:38 , Ezequiel Aragon wrote:
ipnet=mynet ip=10.0.0.0 ipmask=255.255.255.0
ipgw=10.0.0.1
dns=10.0.0.2
dnsdomain=amarna.net
auth=akenaton.amarna.net authdomain=amarna.net
cpu=akenaton.amarna.net
fs=akenaton.amarna.net
This is unusual, at the least.
On Mar 30, 2012, at 12:19 , Yaroslav wrote:
term% fn x @{x=y}
term% whatis x
fn x {x=y}
creates to functions x and '@' definition {x=y}.
The question is why it discards @ here?
Erik's point is that rc isn't discarding it. You have a list. It sets x
equal to that function, then sets @
Folks:
Friday was the meeting for rejected organizations to get some
feedback on their applications and supporting material. I was able
to attend on Plan 9's behalf. The news is overall positive, if not
terribly satisfying. The folks at Google were quite happy with both
our application and
What advantages does it have over TCP?
Significantly simpler implementation.
Lower overhead, giving better speed over local links.
Also, although not an advantage of IL per se, there are a few
advantages to Plan 9 having another protocol in the stack,
especially one which can run 9p. It helps
On Mar 21, 2012, at 16:27 , erik quanstrom wrote:
(in fact, i'd go further than il. why do we need the ip in il?)
I'd love to have an IP-free, 9p-capable network in the mix. Plan 9
had this, way back when, with nonet (?), but that didn't survive
the removal of the streams system in the 3rd
Reparenting.
So this all makes me wonder why some social aggregation group
(aka stack overflow or reddit/programming) or even just a big group
of decentralized nerds couldn't just do a variant of GSoC on our own.
This is entirely possible. Other organizations who've previously been
involved
Folks:
Unfortunately, Plan 9 was not selected to participate in
this year's Summer of Code. There is an upcoming rejected
orgs meeting where folks will have the chance to hear
(very briefly) why and what can be improved, and I'll try to
make that and report back (it hasn't been scheduled
On Mar 14, 2012, at 18:15 , Charles Forsyth wrote:
At least in the past, I'm sure I followed a discussion that the summer of
code was intended (ie, required) to produce code, not documentation
or packaging, although that might have changed.
This is true. All projects in GSoC are required to
I'd suggest to complete native SSH2 implementation.
This has obvious utility, but I'm hesitant to add it without a
mentor who can vouch for its suitability for a summer-sized
student project, and who'd be willing to mentor a good
proposal for it. To me, it seems larger than that, but I'd be
Folks:
As of Friday, the GSoC application is in, and as of today,
Google's considering who gets the slots. As in years past, an
important part of this consideration is the organizations ideas
page. I've created one[0] on our wiki specifically for this year
and pre-populated it with ones
Do you plan to post some of these simple gsoc2011 tasks on 2012?
Yes. I expect to get a short, first draft list of proposed ideas for 2012
projects
up some time today (likely late evening my time). I'd expect several from the
2011[1] list will show up again.
I'm very interesting to join your
Folks:
The fine folks over at Google's Open Source Programs
Office have announced the 2012 edition of Summer of
Code. I intend to submit an application for Plan 9 to again
participate. I'd like your help in making this year a success.
We had one major problem last year. Between
On Feb 24, 2012, at 11:19 , Calvin Morrison wrote:
How can I apply for GSoC as a student? is it to late?
It's not too late - it's too early! Mentor organization applications
haven't even opened yet. Please review the timeline in point
2 in the FAQ[0].
Anthony
[0]
I'd like the newer hg, at a minimum. Our current version
has limited my use at times, working with repositories
generated by newer versions.
Has anyone started work on taking the (very nice) Cocoa
devdraw stuff and making it work with 9vx or drawterm?
On Jan 23, 2012, at 3:58 , smi...@icebubble.org wrote:
* Finally! A sane solution to the problem of hard-coded paths
in the plan9port tree: Most of them have been removed, in
favor of a #!/usr/bin/env 9rc approach (which execs 9 rc).
The 9 script has been updated with
I want to use venti for permanent storage. For temporary storage that
might or might not be saved to venti, I don't know, I've been thinking
of cwfs. I've heard it's as reliable as kfs, though I never had any
issue with any Plan9 filesystem.
Make sure you're not confusing kfs with Ken's
On Nov 1, 2011, at 14:15 , smi...@icebubble.org wrote:
Anthony Sorace a...@9srv.net writes:
I use venti. On servers, I use /n/sources/contrib/anothy/bin/rc/vacbak from
cron
and have the system submit the score to my plan9 server. I tried using
vbackup
first, but there's a huge volume
i want to do some things which require OAuth. i don't like it, but
it's what many folks are doing now and i don't think i can fight it.
has anyone looked into this?
architecturally, it's not immediately clear to me how much of the
http dance out to be in factotum. it could just store access keys.
On Sep 30, 2011, at 13:59, erik quanstrom quans...@labs.coraid.com wrote:
backup:
1. power down mac. remove hard drive.
2. stuff drive as one gigantic file into venti.
restore:
1. copy your backup onto drive
2. install hard drive. power up mac.
In principal, that's roughly what
On Oct 1, 2011, at 14:21 , Lyndon Nerenberg (VE6BBM/VE7TFX) wrote:
What you don't know is (most) Macs no longer have Firewire interfaces.
This works again with the newest Macs with Thunderbolt.
Lest this just be even further off topic, the relevant point here is that beyond
erik's unless your
Just curious what 9fans use, for home and/or work, to backup their macs.
I use venti. On servers, I use /n/sources/contrib/anothy/bin/rc/vacbak from cron
and have the system submit the score to my plan9 server. I tried using vbackup
first, but there's a huge volume of stuff on these systems I
On Sep 26, 2011, at 12:34 PM, Russ Cox wrote:
I think the only pending Lion issue now is that
people using Xcode 4.1 don't have working threads.
I haven't tracked that down yet. I suspect the
getcontext/setcontext routines in that Xcode are
just broken.
Do you have reason to believe this
How did you get it?
Yes, as Jeff suggested, I got it through the iOS developer channel.
On Sep 15, 2011, at 17:31, Lyndon Nerenberg lyn...@orthanc.ca wrote:
None of these integrate with the native environment. I.e. I can't plumb a
URL to Firefox running under the
Not out of the box, no. But the plumber's remarkably flexible, and especially
if someone had p9p running inside
There's a tool called sim which does some level of what
you want. I don't think it's at the level of cleverness you're
looking for, but I found it useful for similar tasks.
I'm fairly sure I got it from someone on this list, but I can't
find the source now (all I've got is a MacOSX/power
binary).
Ah, yup. Charles ported sim here:
http://www.terzarima.net/plan9/soft/index.html
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On Aug 17, 2011, at 6:09 AM, Aram Hăvărneanu wrote:
What's the best option for RAID in Plan9? I understand I can use
either Ken's fileserver or the Plan9 '#k' device.
note that neither of these are RAID in the way most people expect. failure
notification, in particular, can be lacking, and
What it may be? A connection lose?
that'd be my first guess. it is, unfortunately, not uncommon for
routers which do NAT (and some corporate firewalls) to close
idle connections on you. i used to have a cron script that
ran on the NATed system, cpu'd in, did the postroot, and then
hung around
i'm not 100% clear on what you're after, but when i had a similar setup, i
wanted to be able to get at my home (NATed) data from work. to do so, i
have a script called postroot [1] which, when cpu'd into a server posts the
root of the calling terminal as foo.root, where foo is the calling
On Jul 13, 2011, at 10:16, Wes Kussmaul w...@authentrus.com wrote:
Isn't this a perfect case for letting the user set a parameter,
depending upon his/her preference?
No. The choice is between two very different user interaction models. Nobody
has claimed that having widgets filling what would
anyone have, or working on, a driver for the Realtek 8188ce/8192ce
wifi cards? i've recently acquired a thinkpad with one of these in it and
would rather be running native plan9 on it. i'll take a stab in august if
nobody's started already.
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This is not expected to work. The CD is only bootable on 386-ish PCs. In
addition, the Mac port is only partly finished and not included in the
distribution.
On Jul 5, 2011, at 10:39, kuroutadori robbie.bykow...@gmail.com wrote:
I have an iMac G3, and decided I was going to abuse it. I have
I do what you describe on several macs; it works fine. I haven't updated in a
while, but what your describing is my understanding of the standard way to use
p9any auth with u9fs. I use a special user created for this purpose as well.
On Jul 4, 2011, at 4:53, Steve Simon st...@quintile.net
Nix (I believe it's just nix) is on bitbucket, npe/nix. I agree it looks
interesting, although I've only read the paper and browsed the tree a bit so
far.
For 9vx, you're going to need to provide some more details about the failure
mode. What exactly do you do to try and get it running, what
Jack Norton said:
Personally I'd like to see work put into the Plan 9 wiki backend.
Good thing there's a Summer of Code project for that! The student is
looking to upgrade the format of stored documents and the html
generation from it. Should make it much more useful.
Greg Comeau asked:
geoff had a version of xfig...
wow, my memory sucks. i'm now pretty sure that (1) this
was actually xpic, not xfig, and more importantly, (2) i
think we were running this on a solaris box in the lab and
only displaying locally to the old plan9 x11.
sorry
a
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On May 23, 2011, at 18:56, Steve Simon wrote:
xfig + transfig - feels a bit like a patch on a patch and, being
modern unix code would (no doubt) include configure hell...
geoff had a version of xfig running on 3ed years ago. i can try to
dig it up if you want to go that route. i
you've got a very good shot at running p9p on it - p9p is
already known to run on some linux ppc platform. with
any luck, it should just work.
native plan9 will be some work. john points to the Blue
Gene kernel (which you can get somewhere, but as i
understand it isn't quite a stock plan9
has anyone gotten this working? i've got the
3rd-party tun/tap kexts installed (i believe; the
devices show up in /dev), but 9vx is unhappy.
my config file contains:
ether0=type=tap dev=/dev/tap0
9vx complains with:
9vx panic: fd 5 read -1
(when running as superuser, which i
Edward Tufte's sparklines[0] are a wonderful way of
representing a wide variety of data in word-like spaces. You
can't use them in text-only places, though, leading some
folks to come up (very rough) approximations using unicode
characters[1]. They're a poor shadow of the real thing, but
can still
i use u9fs regularly; i install it on any unix machine i'm required
to care about. these days that's only os x boxes, and the source
in the distribution builds without issue for me there. i can dig up
the configuration if that'd be helpful, but it's for launchd (apple's
inetd replacement). i
On May 12, 2011, at 5:04 PM, Steve Simon wrote:
I put the OSX launchd ritual on the wiki a couple of years ago.
and here it is:
http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/9pfs.plist/index.html
a
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