Re: [agi] Off-topic: The Shtinkularity

RoboTurtle II is still my favourite. On 12/03/07, Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi all, If you have 2.5 minutes or so to spare, my 13-year-old son Zebulon has made another Singularity-focused mini-movie: http://www.zebradillo.com/AnimPages/The%20Shtinkularity.html This one is n

Re: [agi] Logical representation

Russell Wallace wrote: On 3/11/07, *Ben Goertzel* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: YES -- anything can be represented in logic. The question is whether this is a useful representational style, in the sense that it matches up with effective learning algorithms!!

Re: [agi] My proposal for an AGI agenda

J. Storrs Hall, PhD. wrote: On Sunday 11 March 2007 15:07, YKY (Yan King Yin) wrote: My main point is: a unified KR allows people to *work together*. That would certainly be nice, but I have yet to be convinced that it's possible :-) Let's look at the alternative, which is even more dism

Re: [agi] Modules; was "My proposal for an AGI agenda"

On Monday 12 March 2007 09:01, Richard Loosemore wrote: > The word "module" has implications, some of which I don't think you > really want to buy. If the helvetica-reading module is completely > different from the roman-reading module, why do I find it so easy to > accommodate to a new typeface

Re: [agi] Logical representation

On 3/12/07, Richard Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm not sure if you're just summarizing what someone would mean if they were talking about 'logical representation,' or advocating it. I'm saying there are 5 different things someone might mean, and going on to advocate 3.5 of them whil

Re: [agi] Modules; was "My proposal for an AGI agenda"

H I am not sure I am conveying the level at which my concern about "modules" is operating. If I go to my kitchen, then what I find are many tools, each of which is specialized for a particular job -- they are modules. I have, among other things, a food mixer and a (lousy) salad spin

Re: [agi] Logical representation

Russell Wallace wrote: On 3/12/07, *Richard Loosemore* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: I'm not sure if you're just summarizing what someone would mean if they were talking about 'logical representation,' or advocating it. I'm saying there are 5 different things s

Re: [agi] Logical representation

On 3/12/07, Richard Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This is puzzling, in a way, because this is my ammunition that you are using here! That is exactly what I am trying to do: invent an AIXML. I am a little baffled because you agree, but think I am not trying to do that I'm equally

Re: [agi] Modules; was "My proposal for an AGI agenda"

On Monday 12 March 2007 10:42, Richard Loosemore wrote: > ... Overlooking the practical deficiencies of actual Lego as > a material for dealing with food, one could imagine a kind of neoLego > that really was adequate for making all the tools in my kitchen. Grant > me that as a presupposition. >

Re: [agi] Logical representation

Russell Wallace wrote: On 3/12/07, *Richard Loosemore* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: This is puzzling, in a way, because this is my ammunition that you are using here! That is exactly what I am trying to do: invent an AIXML. I am a little baffled because yo

[agi] Salad spinners

J. Storrs Hall, PhD. wrote: On Monday 12 March 2007 10:42, Richard Loosemore wrote: > P.S. Off topic: Does anyone know of a really reliable brand of salad spinner? Hate the damn things: they keep breaking on me. http://www.gmi-inc.com/Products/beckman%20tl100.htm Josh Aw, heck, I alrea

Re: [agi] Modules; was "My proposal for an AGI agenda"

J. Storrs Hall, PhD. wrote: On Monday 12 March 2007 10:42, Richard Loosemore wrote: ... Overlooking the practical deficiencies of actual Lego as a material for dealing with food, one could imagine a kind of neoLego that really was adequate for making all the tools in my kitchen. Grant me that

Re: [agi] Logical representation

Ah! That makes your position much clearer, thanks. To paraphrase to make sure I understand you, the reason you don't regard human readability as a critical feature is that you're of the "seed AI" school of thought that says we don't need to do large-scale engineering, we just need to solve the sci

Re: [agi] Logical representation

On Mon, Mar 12, 2007 at 06:58:37PM +, Russell Wallace wrote: >I spent a lot of time on every known variant of that idea and some >AFAIK hitherto unknown ones, before coming to the conclusion that I >had been simply fooling myself with wishful thinking; it's the >perpetual motio

Re: [agi] Logical representation

I'm still not quite sure if what I said came across clearly, because some of what you just said is so far away from what I intended that I have to make some kind of response. For example, it looks like I've got to add "Seed AI" to the list of dumb approaches that I do NOT want to be identif

Re: [agi] Logical representation

On 3/12/07, Eugen Leitl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You don't need the entire four billion years since you don't have to start from scratch (animals, ahem), and you can put things on fast-forward, and select the fitness function for a heavy bias towards intelligence. You're also a couple dozen

Re: [agi] Logical representation

On 3/12/07, Richard Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm still not quite sure if what I said came across clearly, because some of what you just said is so far away from what I intended that I have to make some kind of response. Indeed it seems I'm still not understanding you... I thought

Re: [agi] Modules; was "My proposal for an AGI agenda"

On Monday 12 March 2007 13:27, Richard Loosemore wrote: > Well, I have no problem now, but then it has to be the "concept" level > that is where the modules live, because they are the Lego blocks. > > I thought Minsky was saying they were higher up than that, but maybe I > was mistaken. Minsky is

Re: [agi] Logical representation

On Mon, Mar 12, 2007 at 07:47:26PM +, Russell Wallace wrote: >You're also a couple dozen orders of magnitude short on computing You don't have to recrunch the total ops of the biosphere for the same reason you don't have to redo the whole four gigayears. You're already surrounded by the p

Re: [agi] Logical representation

On 3/12/07, Eugen Leitl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The first and biggest step is to get your system to learn how to evolve. I understand many do not yet see this as a problem at all. Indeed! I don't understand why you moved away from it (it's the only game in town), but if you have a docume

RE: [agi] Logical representation

Evolutionary approaches are what you use when you run of engineering ideas... (and run of statistical approaches) The last game in town. Some of us are making good progress towards AGI via engineering. Peter -Original Message- From: Eugen Leitl [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, M

[agi] Evolutionary approaches...

These terms need to be used carefully... Evolutionary algorithms, as a learning technique, are sometimes a good solution ... though in NM we don't use any classical evolutionary algorithms, relying instead on a customized version of MOSES (see www.metacog.org for a description of the general

Re: [agi] Logical representation

On 3/12/07, Russell Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "Represented in logic" can mean a number of different things, just checking to see if everyone's talking about the same thing. Consider, say, a 5 megapixel image. A common programming language representation would be something like: str

[agi] The "Reading Helvetica" Problem

The problem: 1. To be able to read many fonts 2. even totally new and strange-looking ones 3. even for the FIRST time one encounters a new, strange font; and 4. To be able to improve proficiency for a familiar font. The "NeoLego" or modular approach is very vague and computationally unrealis

[agi] Re: The "Reading Helvetica" Problem

So why do we need superfluous and bloated things like "NeoLego" or "Helvetica modules"?? ...or GA-based algorithms, for that matter! YKY - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?list_id=3

Re: [agi] Logical representation

On 3/13/07, YKY (Yan King Yin) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 1. re #4: As an example, the logical term "chair" is defined, as a logical rule, by other logical terms like "edges", "planes", "blocks", etc. Sensory perception is a process of *applying* such rules; algorithmically this is known as *

Re: [agi] My proposal for an AGI agenda

On 3/12/07, J. Storrs Hall, PhD. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Certainly. Yet I am convinced that that's how it actually works. Someone who came from a theoretical pure communist economy where there was only one organization that everybody worked for, would be aghast at the random madhouse of a ma

Re: [agi] The "Reading Helvetica" Problem

On 3/12/07, YKY (Yan King Yin) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The problem: 1. To be able to read many fonts 2. even totally new and strange-looking ones 3. even for the FIRST time one encounters a new, strange font; and 4. To be able to improve proficiency for a familiar font. The "NeoLego" or