Why not use acoustic plasterboard as well?
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JezA
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Phil Leigh;630658 Wrote:
So, your good enough is near-as-damnit met by Redbook for SNR/dynamic
range and wildly exceeded for distortion (modern DAC's achieve 0.0001%
distortion)
No, Terry wants 0.01% distortion at -100dB (!)
24 bits ain't enough. And of course analogue doesn't have a
tank121;630691 Wrote:
For the garage the boarding is going be 2 x 12mm plasterboard with green
glue sandwiched into between it.
I was going to just do the wall that joins onto the kitchen and the
external long wall.
Not bothering to use the green glue between the boards in the storage
cliveb;630749 Wrote:
No, Terry wants 0.01% distortion at -100dB (!)
24 bits ain't enough. And of course analogue doesn't have a
snowball-in-hell's chance. I'd hazard a guess that obtaining figures
like that would require everything to be liquid nitrogen cooled :-)
Indeed - Johnson Noise
.. and triangulate the bracing so there are no regular rectangular
panels.
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JezA
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In layman terms and within my budget are you saying using acoustic
boards will be better than 2x12mm boards with green glue in between ?
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tank121
tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169
Behind the plasterboards will be some kingspan insulation I believe
having got plans and paperwork with me at work.
The insulation is sufficent to meet building regs/control.
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tank121
tank121's Profile:
Poynton Cheshire.
What would you charge ? I'm no good on ladders!
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tank121
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View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87567
What are you trying to do?
Stop sound escaping or make your room sound good inside?
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JezA
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tank121;630077 Wrote:
Is there a special cat5 cable for external use e.g. out of the wall of
the lounge round the external walls and into the garage ?
I ran cables between a couple of houses a few years back using regular
CAT5 and and burying it in cheap PVC plumbing pipe from Home Depot.
1st priority meeting building regs
2nd stop sound escaping (within budget) original plans submitted showed
2x12mm board green glue just on wall that connects to our kitchen.
Thinking of adding to the other walls but not in the storage area.
3rd Improve rooom acoustics within budget. I know
snottmonster;630174 Wrote:
Just a thought - but wouldn't it be a lot less effort to just have 2 SB
Touch? You could sync them if you are wanting to switch between speaker
setups while your tracks are playing
Exactly, seems like an odd B-solution for a professional setup.
--
brodeur
tank121;630784 Wrote:
1st priority meeting building regs
2nd stop sound escaping (within budget) original plans submitted showed
2x12mm board green glue just on wall that connects to our kitchen.
Thinking of adding to the other walls but not in the storage area.
3rd Improve rooom
Would I just need 1xsheet of 12mm normal plasterboard with this stuff ?
Phil any reason why the reviewers only give it 3* ?
Would this be needed on the wall connecting to the kitchen ?
Is it going to considerably reduce the width of the 8ft room ?
--
tank121
brodeur;630785 Wrote:
Exactly, seems like an odd B-solution for a professional setup.
I don't think you understand the requirement. 2 Touches need to drive 2
amps and 2 pairs of speakers. Then you need a means of (easily) toggling
between 1 Touch playing and the other muted and then that
Phil Leigh;630789 Wrote:
You can't do that easily with JUST 2 Touches because they will respond
to the same IR commands, even if not synced!
But i can easily be done from other devioes such as iPeng in iPad or
iPhone , from web browser, etc.
However, sounds like an output switch of some kind
Then you'll have a problem matching the volume.
Two synched Touches, and some kind of SqueezeOS hack, or SBS hook, to
mute them selectively, could well be the cleanest solution in some
ways.
--
Soulkeeper
-that is not dead which can eternal lie. and with strange aeons even
death may die.-
Soulkeeper;630816 Wrote:
Then you'll have a problem matching the volume.
Two synched Touches, and some kind of SqueezeOS hack, or SBS hook, to
mute them selectively, could well be the cleanest solution in some
ways.
Why would there be a matching problem with one amp or one pre-amp?
And
tank121;630790 Wrote:
Would I just need 1xsheet of 12mm normal plasterboard with this stuff ?
Phil any reason why the reviewers only give it 3* ?
Would this be needed on the wall connecting to the kitchen ?
Is it going to considerably reduce the width of the 8ft room ?
Is it cheaper
johann;630795 Wrote:
But i can easily be done from other devioes such as iPeng in iPad or
iPhone , from web browser, etc.
However, sounds like an output switch of some kind would be much
easier, like a pre-amp with A and B speakers selectable from remote.
Cheers
Johan
It can't be
Phil Leigh;630829 Wrote:
It can't be easily done without bespoke coding - there is NO way to
toggle with a single control. You could do it with a macro on a
remote... but you need the 2 Touches to respond to 2 different IR
command sets.
Also, the approach would then be 100% dependent on
johann;630825 Wrote:
Why would there be a matching problem with one amp or one pre-amp?
Because different speakers have different sensitivity, and matching the
volume after the power amp stage isn't desireable (doing anything to the
signal after the power amp stage generally isn't desireable).
Soulkeeper;630832 Wrote:
Because different speakers have different sensitivity, and matching the
volume after the power amp stage isn't desireable (doing anything to
the signal after the power amp stage generally isn't desireable). So it
follows that each set of speakers should have at least
johann;630831 Wrote:
Acutally i can be done very easy with simple html making 2 http call to
SBS, at least when using web browser.
OP never said he anything about using A/B switch in an amp, he said
they did not want to use an external A/B switch.
If one still want to use 2 SBTs, the
Phil Leigh;630225 Wrote:
Touch to DAC with 2 parallel outputs to - 2 identical pre or integrated
amps that have configurable IR remote input selection (ie most
mid-to-high end non hair shirt gear). These are then programmed so
that selecting (say) Input 1 on one amp also simultaneously
Phil Leigh;630835 Wrote:
My solution is way simpler than that :-) - it would take a few minutes
to program the pre-amps... and as I said, it would work for ANY source,
can be trimmed for volume easily (any pre-amp with programmable inputs
also has programmable levels per input) is ultimate
Well someone said 21 bits is doable. That's 126 dB dynamic range. So
it is not a noise floor issue. With the noise 26 dB below the lowest
signal, it should be out of the way.
The trouble is, it takes 13 bits to get to 0.01%
And 17 bits to get to 100 dB dynamic range.
So in my fairy tale world,
Actually given your concern about wishing to capture the harmonics of 20
kHz fundamentals, it seems to me that the 96 is a bit low- just one
harmonic
Surely what you are looking at in the round is 32/384 which I think
some dacs operate at (in theory)
--
adamdea
TerryS;630844 Wrote:
Well someone said 21 bits is doable. That's 126 dB dynamic range. So
it is not a noise floor issue. With the noise 26 dB below the lowest
signal, it should be out of the way.
The trouble is, it takes 13 bits to get to 0.01%
And 17 bits to get to 100 dB dynamic range.
Just happened across a quote from Emory Cook on the liner notes of a
somewhat ancient (early 50's recording) LP I was ripping:
High Fidelity is not an end in itself but something always to be
pursued. I doubt if anyone will ever catch up with it.
Some things never change!
--
rgro
Rick
OK now I'm home and I've got the plans.
Originally the plans were submitted and with the revisions by bulding
control it was as follows
- new stud wall between living area and storage. 75x50 sw stud wall
with Rockwool acoustic insulation --(as Phil suggested).
New front wall with windows -
ralphpnj;630039 Wrote:
Exactly my point! 60MBytes/sec is a little more than half of
100MBytes/sec and nowhere near 1000MBytes/sec, which is supposed to be
the speed for Gigabit Ethernet.
It is 480Mbps net, which could be higher maybe if I was not reading
from the storage but memory, I do not
My neighbor and i installed 300' of direct burial CAT5e cable between
our houses a few years ago. It has stood up to the test of time.
Currently it's running at 1Gbps. i think it cost us about $100 for the
cable.
cheers,
--
sfraser
2 Chan. System
SB3-Benchmark DAC-1- Bryston(BP-25,3B)-PMC
johann;630836 Wrote:
Why not just have us input 1 on amp 1 and input 2 on amp 2?
Then if you chose input 1, amp 1 will play and vice versa.
No need for remote programming at all then.
True - yes, you are correct that would work.
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Phil Leigh
You want to see the signal path BEFORE it
The Dritherm will behave similarly to Rockwool slab. The Kingspan is all
about thermal insulation but it will have some acoustic benefits too.
I think your plans are fine for what is after all still a normal room.
Which wall are the speakers being mounted on?
--
Phil Leigh
You want to see
Phil Leigh;630014 Wrote:
cat 5 or cat 6 is fine, just avoid shielded cat 6
I just don't get that.
When properly implemented, shielding is a good thing.
+---+
|Filename: Au-bout-du-port-03.jpg |
Phil so do i still need the green glue between the two layers of the
plasterboard ?
http://www.greenglue.co.uk/greenGlue-vs-SoundBoard.pdf
They will be on the stud wall which will be at the opposite end of the
room to the window.
I think I will drop the level a bit. Dali brackets arriving next
tank121;630872 Wrote:
Phil so do i still need the green glue between the two layers of the
plasterboard ?
http://www.greenglue.co.uk/greenGlue-vs-SoundBoard.pdf
They will be on the stud wall which will be at the opposite end of the
room to the window.
I think I will drop the level a
sebp;630870 Wrote:
I just don't get that.
When properly implemented, shielding is a good thing.
Shielded cable can bridge noise into devices by bypassing the galvanic
isolation. In particular, do not use a shielded cable into an SB
player as you do not want to couple any noise into the
In the ceiling too ?
Thanks again Phil, I'm taking photos at stages so i'll post on here.
--
tank121
tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169
View this thread:
Any opinions on Electric Radiators ?
Thinking of this one
http://www.heatecradiators.co.uk/product-detail.asp?id1=134
Any good alternatives ?
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tank121
tank121's Profile:
tank121;630878 Wrote:
In the ceiling too ?
Thanks again Phil, I'm taking photos at stages so i'll post on here.
yes in the ceiling too...
looking forward to the pics and also the results of your speaker
placement experiments
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Phil Leigh
You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets
OK it's kingspan with 2x12.5 plasterboard with the green glue sandwiched
in between it for the outer long wall (edge on the border with neighbors
garden) and it the wall that connects with the kitchen.
The existing fire door is going to replace the door that leads to the
garden (storage
tank121;630879 Wrote:
Any opinions on Electric Radiators ?
Thinking of this one
http://www.heatecradiators.co.uk/product-detail.asp?id1=134
Any good alternatives ?
(seriously) with all that insulation you may find you don't need much
heat - mind you I'm in the South...
--
Phil
adamdea;630850 Wrote:
Actually given your concern about wishing to capture the harmonics of 20
kHz fundamentals, it seems to me that the 96 is a bit low- just one
harmonic
Surely what you are looking at in the round is 32/384 which I think
some dacs operate at (in theory)
Actually, I'm not
tank121;630883 Wrote:
OK it's kingspan with 2x12.5 plasterboard with the green glue sandwiched
in between it for the outer long wall (edge on the border with neighbors
garden) and it the wall that connects with the kitchen.
The existing fire door is going to replace the door that leads to
Stand alone.
--
tank121
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___
Phil Leigh;630852 Wrote:
Are you saying that you find noise an issue with 16-bit playback?
Anyway, when you say it takes 13 bits to get to 0.01%
what exactly do you mean? If you mean without dithering (ie
theoretical) then yes - but fortunately this isn't what ever happens.
QUOTE]
I
TerryS;630887 Wrote:
Actually, I'm not one of those that thinks that I need all of the
supersonic harmonics to make the music sound right, but who knows? For
me personally, I know albums are capable of content to about 40kHz, and
I don't think we should ever step backward. So I'm good with
There is already an existing wall socket in the lounge which feeds an
external cat5 cable which terminates in another wall socket in the
small bedroom.
Could the external cable which feeds round the side of the house just
be extended using a spliter or terminated and extended to the garage ?
TerryS;630894 Wrote:
Phil Leigh;630852 Wrote:
Are you saying that you find noise an issue with 16-bit playback?
Anyway, when you say it takes 13 bits to get to 0.01%
what exactly do you mean? If you mean without dithering (ie
theoretical) then yes - but fortunately this isn't what
tank121;630891 Wrote:
Stand alone.
hmmm... you may wish to revisit that later. Being able to run a plugin
like Inguz (for EQ) might be more helpful than sticking treatments on
your walls... anyway this is all academic - lets wait and see what it
ACTUALLY sounds like first!
--
Phil Leigh
Phil Leigh;630898 Wrote:
TerryS;630894 Wrote:
In reality you cannot have an undithered signal because enough noise to
provide the dither signal is fortunately always present in the input
signal to an ADC when recording real acoustic music.
There is only one known use-case
TerryS;630922 Wrote:
Phil Leigh;630898 Wrote:
You guys and reality get over it would ya?
Actually, what you say makes good sense of course.
But here's a question that actually sort of relates to the original
post that started this thread...
The link you just posted:
Phil Leigh;630927 Wrote:
TerryS;630922 Wrote:
That link clearly shows that the completely artificial (for reasons
I've explained in my last post) distortion in the computer-generated
signal at -60dB was changed into noise @~ -90dB. In other words, in
real life the distortion
TerryS;630931 Wrote:
But if the waveform is still distorted. The way my speaker voice coil
moves is not right. I get your point that this is all happening to
signals that are so small (at 60 dBfs) that you can't hear it. But is
it undistorted?
It kind of sounds like the crap they fed
Have a Touch and Beresford Caiman DAC.
Sounds great. Much better than what I heard with Touch and RCA outs.
Many hi-rez files also sound awesme...
--
dufferdan
SB Touch
Beresford Caiman DAC
Cambridge Azur 640 A v2 Intergrated Amp
Rotel 1055 CD player
Rotel 976 6 channel amp
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