Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit--new research paper suggests

2015-08-30 Thread Peter R via bitcoin-dev
Hi Daniele, I don't think there is any contention over the idea that miners that control a larger percentage of the hash rate, h / H, have a profitability advantage if you hold all the other variables of the miner's profit equation constant. I think this is important: it is a centralizing

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit--new research paper suggests

2015-08-30 Thread Daniele Pinna via bitcoin-dev
However, that is outside the scope of the result that an individual miner's profit per block is always maximized at a finite block size Q* if Shannon Entropy about each transaction is communicated during the block solution announcement. This result is important because it explains how a minimum

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit--new research paper suggests

2015-08-05 Thread Benjamin via bitcoin-dev
Very interesting paper. When you talk about a market, what are you referring to exactly? A market means that demand and supply are matched continuously, and Bitcoin has no such mechanism. A lot of discussion has been around fixing the supply of blocksize. A floating number would mean that a

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit--new research paper suggests

2015-08-05 Thread Hector Chu via bitcoin-dev
On 5 August 2015 at 09:33, Benjamin via bitcoin-dev bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org wrote: A market means that demand and supply are matched continuously, and Bitcoin has no such mechanism. Not all markets need to have highly liquid trading outlets in order to be thought of as such.

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit--new research paper suggests

2015-08-05 Thread Adam Back via bitcoin-dev
On 5 August 2015 at 11:18, Hector Chu via bitcoin-dev bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org wrote: Miners would be uniquely placed to know how best to vary the block size to maximize their profit resulting from these two prices. [...] In that respect a dynamic block size voted on by miners

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit--new research paper suggests

2015-08-05 Thread Peter R via bitcoin-dev
Thank you for the feedback, Benjamin. When you talk about a market, what are you referring to exactly? I define what I mean by healthy, unhealthy, and non-existent markets in Section 7, and I show a figure to illustrate the supply and demand curves in each of these three cases. A healthy

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit--new research paper suggests

2015-08-05 Thread Hector Chu via bitcoin-dev
On 5 August 2015 at 10:57, Adam Back a...@cypherspace.org wrote: You may find the flexcap idea summarised in outline by Greg Maxwell and Mark Friedenbach a month or so back interesting in showing that one can achieve such effects without handing over a free vote to miners and hence avoid many

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit--new research paper suggests

2015-08-05 Thread Adam Back via bitcoin-dev
On 5 August 2015 at 12:51, Hector Chu hector...@gmail.com wrote: The market I am thinking of would be open to all, not just miners. But miners would probably be best placed to profit from such a market, as it is their business to know about the revenue/costs tradeoff. This prediction market in

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit--new research paper suggests

2015-08-05 Thread Hector Chu via bitcoin-dev
On 5 August 2015 at 12:07, Adam Back a...@cypherspace.org wrote: This prediction market in block-size seems like something extremely complex to operate and keep secure in a decentralised fashion. Why would it need to be decentralised? Bitcoin.org could run the exchange, and the profits from

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit--new research paper suggests

2015-08-05 Thread Hector Chu via bitcoin-dev
To put some flesh on the bones of this idea, imagine a hypothetical security named BLK. Demand for bigger blocks should buy up BLK and demand for smaller blocks should short BLK. The price of BLK in BTC is the ideal block size. Now imagine that there are futures contracts for the security BLK. On

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit--new research paper suggests

2015-08-05 Thread Peter R via bitcoin-dev
Hi Dave, Thank you for the feedback regarding my paper. The paper is nicely done, but I'm concerned that there's a real problem with equation 4. The orphan rate is not just a function of time; it's also a function of the block maker's proportion of the network hash rate. Fundamentally a

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit--new research paper suggests

2015-08-05 Thread Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev
On 8/5/2015 3:44 PM, Dave Hudson via bitcoin-dev wrote: I do suspect that if we were to model this more accurately we might be able to infer the typical propagation characteristics by measuring the deviation from the expected distribution. The paper models propagation using a single time

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit--new research paper suggests

2015-08-05 Thread Dave Hudson via bitcoin-dev
On 5 Aug 2015, at 15:15, Peter R pete...@gmx.com wrote: Hi Dave, Thank you for the feedback regarding my paper. The paper is nicely done, but I'm concerned that there's a real problem with equation 4. The orphan rate is not just a function of time; it's also a function of the

[bitcoin-dev] A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit--new research paper suggests

2015-08-04 Thread Peter R via bitcoin-dev
Dear Bitcoin-Dev Mailing list, I’d like to share a research paper I’ve recently completed titled “A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit.” In addition to presenting some useful charts such as the cost to produce large spam blocks, I think the paper convincingly

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit--new research paper suggests

2015-08-04 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 4 August 2015 17:30:28 GMT-04:00, Gavin Andresen via bitcoin-dev bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Dave Hudson via bitcoin-dev bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org wrote: Fundamentally a block

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit--new research paper suggests

2015-08-04 Thread Dave Hudson via bitcoin-dev
On 4 Aug 2015, at 14:30, Gavin Andresen gavinandre...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Dave Hudson via bitcoin-dev bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org wrote: Fundamentally a block maker (pool or aggregation of pools) does not

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit--new research paper suggests

2015-08-04 Thread Dave Hudson via bitcoin-dev
The paper is nicely done, but I'm concerned that there's a real problem with equation 4. The orphan rate is not just a function of time; it's also a function of the block maker's proportion of the network hash rate. Fundamentally a block maker (pool or aggregation of pools) does not orphan its

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit--new research paper suggests

2015-08-04 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 4 August 2015 14:41:53 GMT-04:00, Dave Hudson via bitcoin-dev bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org wrote: The paper is nicely done, but I'm concerned that there's a real problem with equation 4. The orphan rate is not just a function of time;