Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proof-of-Stake Bitcoin Sidechains

2019-02-01 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Matt Bell, Thinking of this further, I observe that there are limits on the number of operations in a SCRIPT (I believe 201 non-push operations, and maybe a smaller number of CHECKSIG operations?). This implies that the number of signatories of the sidechain funds in the mainchain

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proof-of-Stake Bitcoin Sidechains

2019-01-24 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good mornint Peter, > > > Wouldn’t a revealed private key for time locked funds create a race > > > to spend? I imagine miners who are paying attention would have the > > > advantage but it would still just be a race. > > > > If Bitcoin had implemented RBF "properly" (i.e. not have the silly > >

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proof-of-Stake Bitcoin Sidechains

2019-01-24 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
On January 24, 2019 10:03:25 AM UTC, ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev wrote: >Good morning Dustin, > >> Wouldn’t a revealed private key for time locked funds create a race >to spend? I imagine miners who are paying attention would have the >advantage but it would still just be a race. > >If Bitcoin had

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proof-of-Stake Bitcoin Sidechains

2019-01-24 Thread Matt Bell via bitcoin-dev
It seems that miners would always claim the stake for themselves, why not since the private key is public knowledge anyway? This is a nice security property since it wouldn't make economical sense for a miner to take a bribe from an attacker since it would have to be less than the stake amount. It

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proof-of-Stake Bitcoin Sidechains

2019-01-24 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Dustin, > Wouldn’t a revealed private key for time locked funds create a race to spend? > I imagine miners who are paying attention would have the advantage but it > would still just be a race. If Bitcoin had implemented RBF "properly" (i.e. not have the silly "opt-out" rule) then

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proof-of-Stake Bitcoin Sidechains

2019-01-22 Thread Dr Adam Back via bitcoin-dev
Brands credentials use this single show, and multiple show credentials. It's based on the representation problem which is the generalisation to multiple bases where Schnorr is one base, Pedersen Commitments are two bases, Representation problem is n>2 bases. The method used would work for Schnorr

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proof-of-Stake Bitcoin Sidechains

2019-01-22 Thread Dustin Dettmer via bitcoin-dev
How could you prove the private key is in the burning transaction? On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 11:56 AM Satoshin via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > This could could be a viable option. I think this is the right approach. > > Any downside to this and how much does this a

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proof-of-Stake Bitcoin Sidechains

2019-01-22 Thread Dustin Dettmer via bitcoin-dev
Wouldn’t a revealed private key for time locked funds create a race to spend? I imagine miners who are paying attention would have the advantage but it would still just be a race. Would be nice to have the funds destroyed or sent somewhere specific. Like if somehow the revealed key was actually it

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proof-of-Stake Bitcoin Sidechains

2019-01-22 Thread Satoshin via bitcoin-dev
This could could be a viable option. I think this is the right approach. Any downside to this and how much does this add to the blockweight if anything at all. Anonymouse > On Jan 22, 2019, at 4:19 AM, ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev > wrote: > > Good Morning Matt, > >> ### ZmnSCPxj, >> >> I'm in

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proof-of-Stake Bitcoin Sidechains

2019-01-22 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good Morning Matt, > ### ZmnSCPxj, > > I'm intrigued by this mechanism of using fixed R values to prevent multiple > signatures, but how do we derive the R values in a way where they are unique for each blockheight but still can be used to create signatures or verify? One possibility is to deri

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proof-of-Stake Bitcoin Sidechains

2019-01-21 Thread Matt Bell via bitcoin-dev
ZmnSCPxj, I'm intrigued by this mechanism of using fixed R values to prevent multiple signatures, but how do we derive the R values in a way where they are unique for each blockheight but still can be used to create signatures or verify? Thanks, Matt On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 6:06 PM ZmnSCPxj wro

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proof-of-Stake Bitcoin Sidechains

2019-01-19 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good Morning Matt, It seems to me that double signing can be punished by requiring that R be a trivial function on the blockheight of the block being signed on the sidechain network. Then a validator who signs multiple versions of history at a particular blockheight reveals their privkey. Since

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proof-of-Stake Bitcoin Sidechains

2019-01-19 Thread Matt Bell via bitcoin-dev
Hi ZmnSCPxj, Just to clarify, my design does not specify the source of voting power, so it is agnostic to whatever system you want to derive stake or valdiator set membership from. Your idea of timelocking Bitcoin is interesting, I am eager to find a solution where holding Bitcoin is enough to ge

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proof-of-Stake Bitcoin Sidechains

2019-01-19 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Matt, It seems to me much more interesting if the stakes used to weigh voting power are UTXOs on the Bitcoin blockchain. This idea is what I call "mainstake"; rather than a blockchain having its own token that is self-attesting (which is insecure). It seems to me, naively, that the

[bitcoin-dev] Proof-of-Stake Bitcoin Sidechains

2019-01-18 Thread Matt Bell via bitcoin-dev
I have been working on a design for Bitcoin sidechains using the Tendermint BFT consensus protocol, which is commonly used to build proof-of-stake networks (Cosmos is the notable one). The design ends up being very similar to Blockstream's Liquid sidechain, since Tendermint consensus is not far of