Greg London said:
> After that, I wrote "Impatient Perl" as an attempt to
> create a teach-yourself-perl-in-N-days book.
> It's about 130 pages long. Still an intro to perl,
> but takes the student/reader all teh way to
> object oriented programming and advanced regular
> expressions.
>
> It's
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 14:55:58 -0600 (CST), Alex Brelsfoard
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > My impression is that the language which is making the most
> > inroads on traditional Perl areas is PHP. Is that because of the
> > wonderful certifications that PHP has which Perl doesn't? Or is
> > it
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 23:35:40 +, Federico Lucifredi
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Uri,
>
> > >> I have a bookish request: does anybody have an editorial contact at
> > >> O'Reilly I can exchange a few ideas with? I am cooking a proposal
> > >> for them and I need a few tips here and
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 18:01:13 -0500, Gyepi SAM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 03:16:06PM -0500, Duane Bronson wrote:
[...]
> I don't know of any CPAN distributions. However, if you are on an RPM based
> system, you might try my ovid program
>
>
On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 06:42:27PM -0500, Uri Guttman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> i think they don't like unsolicited book ideas as much these days. they
It can't hurt to have Uri push it, but neither can it hurt to throw it
over the transom to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
xoa
--
Andy Lester => [EMAIL
> "FL" == Federico Lucifredi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
BT> I'd start with http://www.oreilly.com/oreilly/author/intro.html.
FL> been there, done that. What I need is someone to talk to *before*
FL> I send them the proposal, hence my hope someone might have an
FL> editor's email.
Hello Uri,
> >> I have a bookish request: does anybody have an editorial contact at
> >> O'Reilly I can exchange a few ideas with? I am cooking a proposal
> >> for them and I need a few tips here and there.
>
> BT> I'd start with http://www.oreilly.com/oreilly/author/intro.html.
been
> Is there a CPAN "distribution" just as there are Linux
"distribution"s?
> In other words, a collection of CPAN modules that one can install as a
> bundle rather than
] I don't know of any CPAN distributions.
CPAN the library has a few "bundles" that are Bundles.
CPANPLUS the Module
Sean Quinlan said:
> OK. Please bear with me as I think while I type (brainstorm). How many
> under-employed Perl Mongers do we have in the Boston area who would be
> willing to semi-volunteer?
> Suggestions? Would anyone be interested in participating in this?
I did three in-house training
--- Ben Tilly mumbled on 2005-03-01 14.56.51 -0800 ---
> Here's an explanation of the Y-Combinator. It won't work in
> Perl because Perl doesn't do lexical binding of input
> parameters. JavaScript does and most should know that, so
> I'll do it in JavaScript.
Also see The Little JavaScripter:
On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 03:16:06PM -0500, Duane Bronson wrote:
> Is there a CPAN "distribution" just as there are Linux "distribution"s?
> In other words, a collection of CPAN modules that one can install as a
> bundle rather than having to use the perl -MCPAN install
>
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 16:02:08 -0500, Adam Turoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2005 at 03:39:30PM -0500, Gyepi SAM wrote:
> > It must be: I am using LISP, after a long hiatus, and really liking it. I
> > simply did not appreciate its power upon introduction six years ago.
>
> Yep. I
Alex Brelsfoard said:
> I'm sorry everyone.
Alex, you of all people have done nothing to apologize for.
You wanted to find a way to make Perl more widely accepted.
Had the conversation been allowed to takes its natural
course, it might have petered out quickly or it might
have come up with a
I'm sorry everyone.
When I first brought up the question of certification I was really just
looking for a way to communicate to people who don't know anything about
Perl.
I love Perl. I think it can and does do some wonderful things. When I
heard the sad story of someone arguing with his
> Most long time Perl programmers will scoff at IDEs, but the lack of
> tools is part of the problem of Perl not being accepted by the corporate
> IT community. Of course it is also a catch-22. Without a critical mass
> of users, there isn't a financial incentive for companies to develop
> such
Jesse Vincent wrote:
you mean something like Module::CoreList?
Yes, I mean Module::CoreList ;-).
Thanks, that'll do it.
Grant M.
--
Grant M.
NeonEdge...Web Pages by Design
http://www.neonedge.com/
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On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 12:22:47AM -0500, Grant M. wrote:
> Does anyone know of an alternative to the package listing for perl
> versions that used to be on perldoc.com? Perldoc.com has been
> unreachable for a couple of weeks now. I used it quite a bit to
> determine what modules I needed
Does anyone know of an alternative to the package listing for perl
versions that used to be on perldoc.com? Perldoc.com has been
unreachable for a couple of weeks now. I used it quite a bit to
determine what modules I needed for specific versions of perl for
software distributions, and it's a
John Saylor wrote:
>
> > > ( 05.03.01 14:21 -0500 ) Greg London:
> > >> What if O'Reilley (or someone) set up a website that
> > >> did free (or low cost) online certification?
>
> > John Saylor said:
> > > what if you did that.
>
> ( 05.03.01 15:59 -0500 ) Greg London:
> > brilliant. Rather
> The crux of the problem, is that these questions aren't getting answered:
> - Can we create a certification that will deliver benefits X, Y and Z?
Yes. No one said it would be easy or happen tomorrow.
> - Is certification a necessary precondition for X, Y and Z?
> - Aren't problems X',
Not discussing advocacy here. Really! Just some comments on CPAN.
On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 15:16 -0500, Duane Bronson wrote:
> My beef with CPAN is the fact that there is some administrative work
> involved with writing a perl program that uses a CPAN module. After I
> write it, I can't email it
hi
> > ( 05.03.01 14:21 -0500 ) Greg London:
> >> What if O'Reilley (or someone) set up a website that
> >> did free (or low cost) online certification?
> John Saylor said:
> > what if you did that.
( 05.03.01 15:59 -0500 ) Greg London:
> brilliant. Rather than focus on the goal,
> shift focus
On Mon, Feb 28, 2005 at 03:39:30PM -0500, Gyepi SAM wrote:
> It must be: I am using LISP, after a long hiatus, and really liking it. I
> simply did not appreciate its power upon introduction six years ago.
Yep. I never fully understood closures until I used them in Perl.
After that, Lisp and
John Saylor said:
> hi
>
> ( 05.03.01 14:21 -0500 ) Greg London:
>> What if O'Reilley (or someone) set up a website that
>> did free (or low cost) online certification?
>
> what if you did that.
brilliant. Rather than focus on the goal,
shift focus on how impossible it appears
to get there.
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 14:05:21 -0600 (CST), Alex Brelsfoard
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > When it comes to large companies, that real estate becomes
> > valuable territory and they're not going to donate it for free.
> > The technology you use is an internal decision. It has no
> > relevance to
hi
( 05.03.01 14:21 -0500 ) Greg London:
> What if O'Reilley (or someone) set up a website that
> did free (or low cost) online certification?
what if you did that.
> What it requires is a community spirit,
> and a little bit of generousity from its
> members to grant it the possibility of
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 10:37:43 -0500, James Linden Rose, III <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> On Monday, February 28, 2005, at 10:54 PM, Ben Tilly wrote:
[...]
> Interesting that you've imagined yourself in a position to be
> interviewing me. Not a very likely scenario though.
I have no idea how
> Strictly speaking I don't think advertisement did much for Java. Sure,
> you see lots of ads for Java related products now, which maintains a
> high visibility for Java, but they exist because the Java market exists.
Sure it did. Again, we're talking more about managers and boss types.
When a
5. Clean up CPAN. The egalitarian nature of CPAN is commendable.
However, quality and activity vary widely and redundancy is rampant. A
Perhaps we should require people to hold certifications before they
contribute code.
You are right about CPAN. CPAN's hugeness and uneven quality is
> Adam Turoff wrote:
>> - Another reason why Perl is a minority language is that it's not
>>used in academic curricula.
>
> An interesting point.
>
>
> Sean Quinlan writes:
>> I agree. I'd love to hear suggestions how to work on that. We teach some
>> Perl at BU, both under the
Right. The horse is dead. Please stop beating it.
Dear Ronald, as our fearless leader
will you please ask everyone to stop all these threads
on certification and advocacy.
Now I know why there are literally millions of matches in Google.
This topic draws in people like flies to
> When it comes to large companies, that real estate becomes
> valuable territory and they're not going to donate it for free.
> The technology you use is an internal decision. It has no
> relevance to the customer. What is the business case for
> putting it out there? If you're going to ruin
See, now we're talking
> Alex Brelsfoard wrote:
>> What about a website advertising scheme? Make a really
>> neat/interesting/technological website based out of Perl and then see if
>> we could get some companies to advertsie it (such as O'Reilly, Apache,
>> and
>> Google)?
>
> Why make
But then, you can't invoke Godwin deliberately, can you?
Wasn't mentioning [implicitly, national] socialism close enough?
No?
Damn.
--
Chris Devers, fascinated just how many thousands of words this thread
has produced, and yet managed to clarify exactly nothing while doing so
I think we're still getting ahead of ourselves here. YES, we are all Perl
programmers and love Perl. That doesn't mean we have to see eye-to-eye on
ANYTHING else. It'd be nice. But who are we kidding. We're all
different. I bring this up to help wash over some of these extraneous
issues:
>
>
>Can someone remind me why Perl needs to be more popular? What actual
>problem will be solved? Are we running low on module developers? Running
>low on core developers? Is the existing code-base evaporating? Are there
>not enough t-shirt and book sales? How will we know when Perl is
I like bananas and have been using the Ook programming language
and Ook# .Net framework for a large number of corporate
projects. For example, since the phone conversations of many
younger teenagers probably consists of apeish grunts, it is
entirely logical to write cell phone applications in a
I like bananas and have been using the Ook programming language
and Ook# .Net framework for a large number of corporate
projects. For example, since the phone conversations of many
younger teenagers probably consists of apeish grunts, it is
entirely logical to write cell phone applications in a
On Mon, Feb 28, 2005 at 03:39:17PM -0500, Tom Metro wrote:
> Adam Turoff wrote:
> >You do not entertain the possibility that certification could
> >possibly be bad and do damage to the community...
> It hasn't hurt Linux.
> Now there's an open source project that has had extreme success in
>
Dan Boger wrote:
On Mon, Feb 28, 2005 at 08:35:11PM -0500, Mike Burns wrote:
--- Sean Quinlan mumbled on 2005-02-28 18.12.00 -0500 ---
Function jumping (or
whatever it's called). I'd _LOVE_ to be able to click (or highlight and
meta-somthing, whatever) on a function or method call and have
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Sean, old boy, I'm astounded. Are you not aware that I've been doing
> exactly this using emacs? Daily? For more than 20 years now? It's
> called find-tag . . .
For the less Emacs-savvy, the speedbar package may be ideal. It shows
the
On Mon, Feb 28, 2005 at 08:35:11PM -0500, Mike Burns wrote:
> --- Sean Quinlan mumbled on 2005-02-28 18.12.00 -0500 ---
> > Function jumping (or
> > whatever it's called). I'd _LOVE_ to be able to click (or highlight and
> > meta-somthing, whatever) on a function or method call and have the
> >
On Tuesday, March 1, 2005, at 10:32 AM, Ricker, William wrote:
I could argue that certifications are the opposite of the socialist
creed, "from each according to his ability", but there are others who
see "all workers are equal" as the ultimate in either socialism
(garbage men and professors of
First, I would like to compliment and express broad general agreement with
everything James Freeman said in his response to the following message.
Second, I would like to express specific agreement with Adam Turoff's
expression of the crux of the problem.
Expressing agreement takes much less
If people have more to add to the discussion on certification, please stay
on topic and cease the personal attacks.
Ronald
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On Monday, February 28, 2005, at 10:54 PM, Ben Tilly wrote:
In an interview what you just said would make me worried. You're
using a technique that you don't understand.
Interesting that you've imagined yourself in a position to be
interviewing me. Not a very likely scenario though.
hi
( 05.02.28 20:03 -0500 ) John Redford:
> To put it extremely bluntly: certifications are socialist. People who
> believe in certifications have the same naïf mentality as people who
> believe in socialism.
some socialists [more or less]:
emma goldman
che guevara
leon trotsky
eugene debs
i
hi
( 05.02.28 21:07 -0500 ) James Linden Rose, III:
> However Mr. Shwartz's model of the problem does not reflect majority
> opinion with respect to the breadth of the issue, (especially as it
> seems to be peppered with idealism and anti-capitalism).
whoa- idealism and anti-capitalism
smells
Here, here...
The perl community already has a "certification" that matters and would
convince any PHB that the person they were hiring was a good candidate.
The Perl Advocacy question is a separate one for reasons I will show
below. In short our current certification goes like this,
>To be effective at growing the pool of Perl programmers I think Perl
>needs to be used in a general course that isn't specifically about Perl
>or some specialty that is already well entrenched with Perl.
Exactly. The wolf book would make an excellent text-book for a beginner's
guide to algorythms
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