RE: Where to now?

2012-11-24 Thread Dan Minette
How about Hayek? Half of the article that I'm giving a link to talks about him. It is written by another Nobel prize winner, and gives a very interesting account how his professional and popular works differ. I like the comparison of him to Marx, it makes a lot of sense to me...partially because

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-24 Thread Nick Arnett
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:42 PM, John Williams jwilliams4...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Kevin O'Brien zwil...@zwilnik.com wrote: OK, I'm not at all clear on how you got top-down management out of what I said. I'm getting tired of correcting all this nonsense, I

RE: Where to now?

2012-11-24 Thread Dan Minette
A few will engage with you for the same unfortunate reason (to try to correct you), but then it just becomes a matter of who can be a bigger bully. I'm not sure about that. Kevin, for example never struck me as a bully. And, I've never seen a counter-argument with facts and logic as

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-24 Thread Nick Arnett
On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 8:34 AM, Dan Minette danmine...@att.net wrote: A few will engage with you for the same unfortunate reason (to try to correct you), but then it just becomes a matter of who can be a bigger bully. I'm not sure about that. Kevin, for example never struck me as a bully.

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-24 Thread John Williams
On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Nick Arnett nick.arn...@gmail.com wrote: Do whatever you want with my opinion, Thank you, I will. ^^ politeness ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-24 Thread John Williams
On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 8:08 AM, Dan Minette danmine...@att.net wrote: Half of the article that I'm giving a link to talks about him. It is written by another Nobel prize winner, Without commenting on Burgin's book, I will point out that Robert Solow (bad Solow?) writes an extremely biased

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-24 Thread Kevin O'Brien
On 11/24/2012 11:08 AM, Dan Minette wrote: How about Hayek? Half of the article that I'm giving a link to talks about him. It is written by another Nobel prize winner, and gives a very interesting account how his professional and popular works differ. I like the comparison of him to Marx, it

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-24 Thread John Williams
On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Kevin O'Brien zwil...@zwilnik.com wrote: I also note in passing that a study done a few years ago about charitable giving found that economists were the stingiest group in the study, which I found not at all surprising. Would you be referring to the study

Degeneration? Re: Where to now?

2012-11-21 Thread Klaus Stock
Okay, back to my discussion with myself ;-) This, of course, a tendency only. But it's sufficient and it surely kills innovation. I wonder how much further this tendency will go. I always found it hard to swallow when SciFi authors wrote about old degenerate races. Not only Dr. Brin; it also

RE: Degeneration? Re: Where to now?

2012-11-21 Thread Pat Mathews
: Degeneration? Re: Where to now? Okay, back to my discussion with myself ;-) This, of course, a tendency only. But it's sufficient and it surely kills innovation. I wonder how much further this tendency will go. I always found it hard to swallow when SciFi authors wrote about old

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-21 Thread Kevin O'Brien
On 11/20/2012 4:35 PM, Dan Minette wrote: BTW, my doctoral dissertation at the University of Michigan involved banking and monetary issues. One of the best lessons I learned was that people who really understand what they are talking about can say it it plain English. Well, that just makes

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-21 Thread John Williams
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Kevin O'Brien zwil...@zwilnik.com wrote: So at this point I can only conclude that the Republicans are congenital liars. You are wearing selective blinders. All politicians are liars. ___

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-21 Thread Klaus Stock
So at this point I can only conclude that the Republicans are congenital liars. You are wearing selective blinders. All politicians are liars. But not all are congenital. Luckily, most voters do not care if the lies are plausible or at least delivered convincingly. - Klaus

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-21 Thread John Williams
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Klaus Stock k...@stock-consulting.com wrote: So at this point I can only conclude that the Republicans are congenital liars. You are wearing selective blinders. All politicians are liars. But not all are congenital. Ha! Luckily, most voters do not care if

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-20 Thread Bruce Bostwick
On Nov 19, 2012, at 1:55 PM, Klaus Stock wrote: And...we got the iPad, where you actually have to flip pages the old way. FYI -- you *can* turn pages the traditional way, but you can also tap the right edge of the page to turn it, so in effect, the whole right edge of the page is a next

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-20 Thread Bruce Bostwick
On Nov 19, 2012, at 1:58 PM, Klaus Stock wrote: We need a black swan. Maybe we already have it. The wiki model is working for editing wikipedias (not only _the_ Wikipedia, but many other clones, parodies, porn sites or just silly stuff), It began with IMDB and if they hadn't been such

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-20 Thread Kevin O'Brien
On 11/19/2012 4:56 PM, D.C. Frandsen wrote: But I also have a problem with the idea that creating new customers by which I guess, Kevin, you mean demand, is the only solution. I believe our problem has been that we have been fixated on creating demand only, not on the type of demand we are

RE: Where to now?

2012-11-20 Thread Dan Minette
Perhaps the patent equivalen of GPL? Because the answer to why can't we apply the wiki idea to publishing information? was copyrights and licenses until GPL became a viable solution .. There is a difference. I have an unused trade secret in my back pocket. When I came up with it, it was a

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-20 Thread Kevin O'Brien
On 11/20/2012 2:12 PM, John Williams wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 5:45 AM, Kevin O'Brien zwil...@zwilnik.com wrote: Right now, there is a ton of cash that is mostly on the sidelines because the people who have it do not see opportunities for productive investment. Cash on the sidelines is a

RE: Where to now?

2012-11-20 Thread Dan Minette
BTW, my doctoral dissertation at the University of Michigan involved banking and monetary issues. One of the best lessons I learned was that people who really understand what they are talking about can say it it plain English. Well, that just makes you as suspect as the non-financial faculty of

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-20 Thread John Williams
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Kevin O'Brien zwil...@zwilnik.com wrote: BTW, my doctoral dissertation at the University of Michigan involved banking and monetary issues. One of the best lessons I learned was that people who really understand what they are talking about can say it it plain

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-20 Thread John Williams
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Kevin O'Brien zwil...@zwilnik.com wrote: OK, I'm not at all clear on how you got top-down management out of what I said. I'm getting tired of correcting all this nonsense, but I thought I'd respond to this at least. You are the one claiming you know better how

RE: Where to now?

2012-11-20 Thread Dan Minette
BTW, my doctoral dissertation at the University of Michigan involved banking and monetary issues. One of the best lessons I learned was that people who really understand what they are talking about can say it it plain English. Which makes it ironic that you are potentially misleading people

RE: Where to now?

2012-11-20 Thread Dan Minette
Subject: Re: Where to now? On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Kevin O'Brien zwil...@zwilnik.com wrote: OK, I'm not at all clear on how you got top-down management out of what I said. I'm getting tired of correcting all this nonsense, but I thought I'd respond to this at least. You are the one

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-20 Thread John Williams
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Dan Minette danmine...@att.net wrote: You change the regulations of the parasites on Wall Street... ...You should read more. If only it were that simple. Regulators have been trying to manage things for decades. Between regulatory-capture and the law of

RE: Where to now?

2012-11-20 Thread Dan Minette
-Original Message- From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On Behalf Of John Williams Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 4:06 PM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: Re: Where to now? On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Dan Minette danmine

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-20 Thread John Williams
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Dan Minette danmine...@att.net wrote: And the suceeded for 60+ years. Ha, hahaha, ho ho ho. Very funny. You would benefit by occasionally listening to other people. How about Hayek? The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really

RE: Where to now?

2012-11-20 Thread Dan Minette
OK, you found someone with a Nobel prize to follow. Why not the score of Nobel prize winners who don't believe in the gold standardsand wasn't he a cowinner of the prize with someone with strongly differing views. :-) Are you really that big a fan of deflation? An, how can you explain that

RE: Where to now?

2012-11-19 Thread Dan Minette
-Original Message- From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On Behalf Of Jon Louis Mann Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 4:34 PM To: Jonathan Louis Mann Subject: Where to now? Now that the election is past and Obama doesn't have to worry about his re

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-19 Thread Dave Land
and income. Dave On Nov 19, 2012, at 6:46 AM, Dan Minette wrote: -Original Message- From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On Behalf Of Jon Louis Mann Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 4:34 PM To: Jonathan Louis Mann Subject: Where to now? Now

RE: Where to now?

2012-11-19 Thread Dan Minette
This is largely the result of a shift to capital gains income, rather than productivity-based income among the top few percent, who have gobbled up the growing gap between productivity and income. There are two problems that face workers. First, productivity has outpaced demand. Second, the

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-19 Thread Dave Land
On Nov 19, 2012, at 8:11 AM, Dan Minette wrote: Gautam's book may prove unpopular with CEOs because it shows that a filtered leader is not that unique, there are many other candidates who would make the same decision. This would indicate that there is no business basis to pay, for example,

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-19 Thread ALBERTO VIEIRA FERREIRA MONTEIRO
Dan Minette prayed: We need a black swan. Maybe we already have it. The wiki model is working for editing wikipedias (not only _the_ Wikipedia, but many other clones, parodies, porn sites or just silly stuff), It began with IMDB and if they hadn't been such stupid jerks IMDB would have turned

RE: Where to now?

2012-11-19 Thread Dan Minette
Dave wrote: It's sounding more and more like I need to get a copy of Gautam's book. Well, I admit I'm very biased in this, so I think my comments need to be taken with a grain of salt. But, to have a book that considers Lincoln as a near singular example of excellence in a unfiltered leader

RE: Where to now?

2012-11-19 Thread Dan Minette
Why can't we apply the wiki idea to _engineering_? Because wikipedia is a collection of knowledge. Breakthroughs are typically done by a few people. It's seeing what no-one has seen before, not compiling all the stuff people have seen. It would be akin to having a masterpiece painted by

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-19 Thread Kevin O'Brien
On 11/19/2012 11:11 AM, Dan Minette wrote: But, we cannot create many jobs where there is a reason to pay someone a good income. That is a challanging problem. It might best be faced by spreading ownership of corporations, but doing that without the law of unitended consequences bighting us is

RE: Where to now?

2012-11-19 Thread Dan Minette
There is one and only one factor that creates jobs, and it is not wealthy people. That one factor is customers. I differ here. Not that middle class consumers are not more important than the top 0.1% getting more money, I agree with that. But, Clay's article is deeper than that. Look at all

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-19 Thread Dave Land
On Nov 19, 2012, at 9:56 AM, Dan Minette wrote: Dave wrote: It's sounding more and more like I need to get a copy of Gautam's book. Doris Kearns Goodwin, Pulitzer Prize-winning author and presidential historian- Indispensable provides a masterly, absorbing, and exceptionally original

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-19 Thread Dave Land
On Nov 19, 2012, at 11:04 AM, Dan Minette wrote: One potential disruptive innovation would be a process that coverts CO2, sea water and sunlight into petrol, at a cheaper price than we pay at the pump. That would create tens of thousands of good new jobs. Sounds like this, about which I first

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-19 Thread Klaus Stock
Hi, last big innovation, and are have Apple winning market share on style instead of companies providing innovation that turns the world upside down I vaguely remember that I the past it took about 50 years from an innovation to appear until it became mainstream. Okay, my favourite example

RE: Where to now?

2012-11-19 Thread Dan Minette
Dave Land, you must buy this book! - Doris Kearns Goodwin Sounds like your interest in Lincoln has gotten connected to one of the experts on Lincoln. I'm happy for you. Dan M. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-19 Thread Klaus Stock
We need a black swan. Maybe we already have it. The wiki model is working for editing wikipedias (not only _the_ Wikipedia, but many other clones, parodies, porn sites or just silly stuff), It began with IMDB and if they hadn't been such stupid jerks IMDB would have turned itself into what

RE: Where to now?

2012-11-19 Thread Dan Minette
Sounds like this, about which I first heard the inventor speak at TEDxSanJoseCA in 2011: The group I was thinking of has a slightly different biological approach. It is Joule Unlimited I really don't have a dog in the fight over which company wins, I just hope someone does. It should take

RE: Where to now?

2012-11-19 Thread Dan Minette
-Original Message- From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On Behalf Of Klaus Stock Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:56 PM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: Re: Where to now? Hi, last big innovation, and are have Apple winning market

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-19 Thread D.C. Frandsen
I agree with you, Dan. Newer and better versions of tablets or iphones are marginal improvements and will not provide the stimulus to the economy to change the direction we are following. But I also have a problem with the idea that creating new customers by which I guess, Kevin, you mean

Re: Where to now?

2012-11-19 Thread Klaus Stock
I vaguely remember that I the past it took about 50 years from an innovation to appear until it became mainstream. Huh? It took geosteering 3 years to drop the price of oil by a factor of 3. snip My rant about the 50 years wasn't really meant seriously. Just the preparation to the conclusion

Where to now?

2012-11-18 Thread Jon Louis Mann
Now that the election is past and Obama doesn't have to worry about his re-election, will he finally stand up to Wall Street, put the brakes on corrupt, corporate capitalism, and stick to his guns on taxing the rich? Sure Obama is much better than Romney, but he still has to cope with