Re: [ccp4bb] Merohedral twining for P212121. -

2010-06-29 Thread Loes Kroon-Batenburg
Dear Frank, DIRAX is very good at finding the twin lattices in case of non-merohedral twinning. In the reticular case you might want to use the LEPAGE-TWIN routine in PLATON to find the correct subcell. My collegue, Martin Lutz, suggests to change the measurement temperature in order to chang

Re: [ccp4bb] Merohedral twining for P212121. -

2010-06-24 Thread Colin Nave
Matheus, Ian, Frank, Jonathan Thanks for all the comments. It is easy to calculate the amount of splitting of the spots once the cell dimensions of each component are known. For the P212121 case, with a-b twinning, splitting will be zero in the c* direction. The splitting will increase as h and k

Re: [ccp4bb] Merohedral twining for P212121.

2010-06-23 Thread John R Helliwell
Dear Colleagues, I hope the following detailed review will be of help both with terminology as well as case studies of a wide variety of kinds, including possible approaches for moving forward, regarding the various manifestations of twinning, lattice disorders and multiple crystals. Best wishes, J

Re: [ccp4bb] Merohedral twining for P212121. -

2010-06-23 Thread Jonathan Elegheert
I recently ran into a similar case where the SG was P2(1)2(1)2(1) with a ~ b (within a few angstroms), thus emulating a P422 metric symmetry. Full details here: Pubmed ID: 20057079 As Ian says, sometimes the spot splitting was particularly visible, sometimes it was not. SAINT was not able to i

Re: [ccp4bb] Merohedral twining for P212121. -

2010-06-23 Thread Frank von Delft
My experience with pseudo-merohedral twinning (it was actually the reticular case with half the spots overlapped and the other non-overlapped half on a pseudo C-centred lattice) is that the degree of splitting varies widely over the diffraction pattern. In some places there was complete overlap,

Re: [ccp4bb] Merohedral twining for P212121. -

2010-06-23 Thread Ian Tickle
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 11:09 PM, wrote: > My interest was really what happened in the observed diffraction > pattern. With the large difference in the orthorhombic cell dimensions, > the spots will gradually separate for the higher orders. The point I > really wanted to discuss was whether ther

Re: [ccp4bb] Merohedral twining for P212121. -

2010-06-22 Thread Colin Nave
comments appreciated. Cheers Colin > -Original Message- > From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:ccp...@jiscmail.ac.uk] On > Behalf Of Ian Tickle > Sent: 22 June 2010 17:35 > To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK > Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Merohedral twining for P212121. > > On Tue,

Re: [ccp4bb] Merohedral twining for P212121.

2010-06-22 Thread Ian Tickle
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Colin Nave wrote: > Secondly, the difference in the cell dimensions (b=123.92 and c=128.89A) > appears to be quite large and should lead to split spots which (I think) > corresponds to non merohedral twinning. Did you observe these but integrated > them as one? Th

Re: [ccp4bb] Merohedral twining for P212121.

2010-06-22 Thread Colin Nave
er more nor less" As important a philosopher as Wittgenstein.) From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:ccp...@jiscmail.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Matheus Pinheiro Sent: 22 June 2010 12:00 To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Meroh

Re: [ccp4bb] Merohedral twining for P212121.

2010-06-22 Thread Matheus Pinheiro
Hi Yang, I had the experience to work with twinning in P212121space group. My crystals belong to space group P212121with unit cell dimensions a=82.39, b=123.92 and c=128.89A. You can see that"b" and "c" are not equal but very simmilar, and this factcan allow twinning for this space group. The c

Re: [ccp4bb] Merohedral twining for P212121.

2010-06-21 Thread Jon Schuermann
Yang, There are not any merohedral twin laws, but there are several pseudomerohedral twinning possibilities. The most common would be a monoclinic cell with a beta ~90, so it appears orthorhombic. Going the other way, you could have an orthorhombic cell look tetragonal if A and B are close

Re: [ccp4bb] Merohedral twining for P212121.

2010-06-21 Thread Frederic VELLIEUX
tion a = b, but the space group is P212121...) Fred. > Message du 21/06/10 22:52 > De : "yang li" > A : CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK > Copie à : > Objet : [ccp4bb] Merohedral twining for P212121. > > Dear all, >         Is there any possible of twining for a normal P2

[ccp4bb] Merohedral twining for P212121.

2010-06-21 Thread yang li
Dear all, Is there any possible of twining for a normal P212121 spacegroup and what is the twin law, say no equal cell dimensions? Some people said there is no twin law for such symmetry but I am not very sure. Thanks a lot. Best Yang