On Fri, Aug 07, 2015 at 02:11:01PM +1200, Mike Ross wrote:
> If you want to see how it works on bigger iron, here's a rare beast
> indeed: my Application Starterpak 3000 - internal IBM codename
> 'Warthog'. A real S/390 in a half-height chassis. First video is a
> power-up; let it play to the end a
>
> And come to think of it, I bet those dummy chips were used for
> training people to hand stuff boards as well.
The Amstrad PCW8256 (word processor) came with 256K of RAM but could be
expanded to
512K essentially by adding another 8 41256 DRAM chips. Some companies in the UK
sold the
9-chi
For sure. When I quoted the 20 minute post time on new 4U machines earlier,
I didn't include the time the four HBAs on those particular machines spent
enumerating each one of the 360 drives connected ... only to poop out at
the end of the process anyway because it runs out of memory in a fixed data
Cross-post from the Collectors Network list that may be of interest to
folks here.
If anyone out there happens to have an old copy of Vol. 1 of the CBX 8000
System Service Manual, or might know an old ROLMan (or ROLwoMan) who might
have same, I surely would appreciate the opportunity to digitize i
It doesn't even shunt across; it's just 16 pins in a DIL package
"floating"? Strange. If it were a manufacturing test, one wouldn't expect
it would show up in production machines?
Best,
Sean
On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 3:17 PM, geneb wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Aug 2015, Eric Smith wrote:
>
> On Thu, Aug 6
On 08/06/2015 08:20 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:
You might check whether the BIOS config is set to autodetect drives
at startup; in many BIOSes each IDE channel can be set to Auto/None
or a specific config. Try setting all installed drives to a specific
configuration, and any unused channels to None.
Cool! I've toyed with the idea of getting a larger mainframe (zSeries)
but the aspect of trying
to get and configure storage for it is the main stumbling block.
I didn't realize how lucky I was with mine until I started hearing about
the horror stories from
others. I think what helped was tha
All unused! Please contact me off list if interested.
Located in zip 61853
Oh it's much bigger. Somewhere I have a photo of them side by side... ah yes:
http://www.corestore.org/ASP3000-IS390.jpg
That's the Warthog next to an Integrated Server 3006 - which uses the
same chassis as the MP3K. So it's both - it's a repackaged MP2000,
*and* it's much bigger than an MP3K! Al
You might check whether the BIOS config is set to autodetect drives at startup;
in many BIOSes each IDE channel can be set to Auto/None or a specific config.
Try setting all installed drives to a specific configuration, and any unused
channels to None. Autodetection can sometimes take a long t
Is it really "bigger" than the MP3000 or is just a repackaged MP2000
where there
is no emulated I/O?
My MP3000 in addition to 2 72GB Raid-5 arrays has 2 ethernet interfaces,
2 parallel channel
attach points and 2 ESCON channel attach points.
I'm also jealous that you have a 3279 terminal. I'
On 08/06/2015 06:24 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote:
Aside from memory tests, in my experience, sometimes slowness can be
caused by a disk controller ROM (often on a SCSI controller) that
gets invoked during the POST that slows things down - particularly if
it also enumerates what is on the SCSI bus.
Nope
If you want to see how it works on bigger iron, here's a rare beast
indeed: my Application Starterpak 3000 - internal IBM codename
'Warthog'. A real S/390 in a half-height chassis. First video is a
power-up; let it play to the end and it segues into the next video,
IPLing the beast!
https://www.yo
Aside from memory tests, in my experience, sometimes slowness can be
caused by a disk controller ROM (often on a SCSI controller) that gets
invoked during the POST that slows things down - particularly if it also
enumerates what is on the SCSI bus.
On 8/6/2015 7:35 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> On the
Four, I expect:
CPU, Memory, VAX Interface, Floppy Controller.
I have one in pieces floating around here somewhere.
One of those puppies (probably the one I have) held our VAX hostage for
DAYS while the service folks from the OEM (Intergraph) tried to figure
out what was wrong - they kept blamin
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015, Chuck Guzis wrote:
The problem is, that even with the "Fast boot" BIOS setting, it takes well
over a minute to get to the point where it tries to boot.
Does anyone have a clue on why it's so slow? Even getting the POST down to
15-20 seconds would be wonderful.
Slow boot ca
On the subject of slow booting, perhaps someone can help me with a very
annoying case of the slowboots.
I've got a dual slot-1 P3 system here--a Supermicro P6DGE, which uses a
440GX chipset and 2GB of registered SDRAM with two 900MHz CPUs. When it
finally get around to s booting, it's a great
On 08/06/2015 04:01 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote:
Until that console processor fails with no backups. I seem to recall
having 4 or 5 "backups" (aka operators). ;)
Well, the idea is that the console or diagnostic processor
is WAY simpler than the mainframe CPU. So, if the console
computer dies, you
On 08/06/2015 02:25 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
It could also be a chip used to test an auto-insertion machine or wave
solder machine. If memory serves, they'll use correctly pinned but "fake"
parts to test those processes before moving to the more expensive real
thing.
Yes, there were a few co
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rich
> Alderson
> Sent: 07 August 2015 00:05
> To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
>
> Subject: RE: SNA was RE: Booting an IBM MP 3000 S/390 System
>
> From: Dave G4UGM
> Sent: Thu
From: Dave G4UGM
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2015 11:26 AM
> Excuse me if this isn't Exactly right, but I seem to recall some on
> in IBM saying that Thomas Watson Jr got a phone call one day. It
> went...
> TWJ: Thomas Watson here
> CLR: Is that Thomas Watson Jnr.
> TWJ: Yes
> CLR: and you are th
> I should think that a set of manually entered bootstrap instructions
> (i.e., not on a diode ROM board) would take considerably longer than
> 5s. ;)
I feel fairly sure you overestimate either the length of the bootstrap
or the per-word time required.
I once used an HP machine with a front-pane
On Aug 6, 2015 6:00 PM, "Fred Cisin" wrote:
>
> Pin-out?
>
> Data sheet?
>
I'll dig them out when I'm home again in a couple of weeks. I saved them
from the trash, figuring they could at least be used for art projects. I'll
let them go for the cost of shipping.
Kyle
Pin-out?
Data sheet?
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015, Jay Jaeger wrote:
Until that console processor fails with no backups. I seem to recall
having 4 or 5 "backups" (aka operators). ;)
Your expertise is the simplest and most reliable way to do it.
I see - I would have guessed quite a few more instructions than that,
based on my PDP-11 experience (my 8/L has only paper tape).
The PDP-12, which I have more experience at, takes about the same amount
of effort/time, but just the one I/O instruction in the switch register
(but then you have to e
On 2015-08-06 23:00, Jay Jaeger wrote:
I should think that a set of manually entered bootstrap instructions
(i.e., not on a diode ROM board) would take considerably longer than 5s. ;)
You might think so. But when you see the bootstrap for the RK05 on a
PDP-8, you realize that it takes about 5
Until that console processor fails with no backups. I seem to recall
having 4 or 5 "backups" (aka operators). ;)
On 8/6/2015 2:07 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Aug 2015, Jay Jaeger wrote:
>> Acch. All this modern/complicated stuff. Once you powered on an IBM
>> 1410 (2 seconds), you could
I should think that a set of manually entered bootstrap instructions
(i.e., not on a diode ROM board) would take considerably longer than 5s. ;)
On 8/6/2015 1:43 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> PDP-8 with OS/8 on an RK05. From power up until booted and ready was
> basically the time for the disk to
On Aug 6, 2015 3:26 PM, "William Donzelli" wrote:
>
> Yes, there were a few companies that made dummy chips for exactly that
> reason. These days, the robots are much better, so I doubt the
> practice of using dummy chips still exists.
>
I've got tubes of them if anyone's interested. Not that any
Another reason for an attached service processor is to handle twiddling
of things that the main machine shouldn't have access to. Reconfiguring
memory, adjusting operating margins, monitoring water temperature,
getting hold of detailed status information, etc. In at least one case,
I'm aware
> Yes, there were a few companies that made dummy chips for exactly that
> reason. These days, the robots are much better, so I doubt the
> practice of using dummy chips still exists.
And come to think of it, I bet those dummy chips were used for
training people to hand stuff boards as well.
--
W
> It could also be a chip used to test an auto-insertion machine or wave
> solder machine. If memory serves, they'll use correctly pinned but "fake"
> parts to test those processes before moving to the more expensive real
> thing.
Yes, there were a few companies that made dummy chips for exactly
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015, Eric Smith wrote:
On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 10:22 AM, tony duell wrote:
Amazingly there is nothing inside that 16pin DIL package. No silicon chip, no
thick-film resistor
network, nothing. It is just a package with the pins.
Are you sure? They might have gotten a really good
> > Amazingly there is nothing inside that 16pin DIL package. No silicon chip,
> > no thick-film resistor
> > network, nothing. It is just a package with the pins.
>
> Are you sure? They might have gotten a really good deal on
Well, I've not x-rayed one, but I could detect no conductivity or dio
On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 10:22 AM, tony duell wrote:
> Amazingly there is nothing inside that 16pin DIL package. No silicon chip, no
> thick-film resistor
> network, nothing. It is just a package with the pins.
Are you sure? They might have gotten a really good deal on
house-marked Signetics 25120
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015, Jay Jaeger wrote:
Acch. All this modern/complicated stuff. Once you powered on an IBM
1410 (2 seconds), you could have it (141O O/S: 1410-PR-155) running in
as little as a minute, counting the tape drive mount:
Mount tape on unit 0 [30 seconds tops, as tape is probably alrea
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015, Guy Sotomayor wrote:
In many cases more than one! ;-)
But more to the point, having a separate processor handing the booting chores
frees the
main CPU from those tasks. Initialization can be a pain just look at the x86
ISA and the
hoops it makes the S/W (BIOS & OS) just
On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 9:27 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote:
> The PDP-10 had a PDP-11 console processor.
The early PDP-10 models used the KA10 and KI10 CPUs, which did not
have any separate processor for console/boot/diagnostics. It was
common, however, to have a PDP-8 based communication subsystem, such
I would love to see that Verilog, as I have a Digilent Nexys2 (Xilinx
Spartan 3E) and a Pertec drive I could play with.
On 8/6/2015 11:19 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> On 08/06/2015 08:35 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
>
>> Formatted Pertec is a fairly simple interface. Chuck has talked in
>> the past of design
On 8/6/15 11:05 AM, Eric Christopherson wrote:
On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 12:41 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote:
Back to the MP 3000. There are a number of CPUs in the box. Two are the
most
obvious: the SBC running OS/2 and the actual S/390 CPU. However, there is
another
S/390 CPU in the box as well.
PDP-8 with OS/8 on an RK05. From power up until booted and ready was
basically the time for the disk to spin up, which was about 10 seconds.
The actual booting of the system is about 0.3 seconds. Add 5 seconds if
you had to manually enter the bootstrap.
Johnny
On 2015-08-06 20:43, Jay
Acch. All this modern/complicated stuff. Once you powered on an IBM
1410 (2 seconds), you could have it (141O O/S: 1410-PR-155) running in
as little as a minute, counting the tape drive mount:
Mount tape on unit 0 [30 seconds tops, as tape is probably already there]
Storage Scan to +1
Sense swit
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of JP Hindin
> Sent: 06 August 2015 19:07
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>
> Subject: RE: Booting an IBM MP 3000 S/390 System
>
>
>
> On Thu, 6 Aug 2015, Dave G4UGM wrote:
> >>
On 8/6/2015 8:10 AM, geneb wrote:
I guess I just don't understand WHY. Wouldn't it be more economical
(both from a manufacturing and sales standpoint) to design a mini or
mainframe that could boot with nothing more than a dumb terminal as a
system console?
g.
Whispers Time Sharing... Sell bi
On 8/6/2015 7:47 AM, William Donzelli wrote:
To report higher sales of OS2/Warp? ;)
Not the only one though, ISTR the 11/780 used a 11/03 to boot?
Quite a lots of larger machines do.
That don't bother me as much as the hidden source software
used with modern (mad laugh) OS code. Ben.
Wow. I'll never complain again that it takes too long to boot Windows...
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015, geneb wrote:
One thing I don't understand - why can't the machine boot on its own? Why
would IBM design a computer that required another computer just to boot it?
"Why CAN'T the operating system have
On 8/6/2015 4:30 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
On 5 August 2015 at 20:25, Fred Cisin wrote:
"A pint is a pound, the world around." is no longer true.
Never was. You always did use weird pints. They were *our* bloody
silly measure, until we adopted something more sensible and easier to
use...
And *n
On 8/6/2015 1:32 AM, Marc Verdiell wrote:
Wow. I'll never complain again that it takes too long to boot Windows...
Now how about windows shutting down...
Ben.
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015, Dave G4UGM wrote:
Booting an old CDC 6000-series machine meant mounting a "deadstart"
tape, pushing the button just below the screens on the DD60, entering or
editing the equipment status table, then going out for a smoke (not me) or a
cup of coffee, while the system copied
On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 12:41 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote:
> Back to the MP 3000. There are a number of CPUs in the box. Two are the
> most
> obvious: the SBC running OS/2 and the actual S/390 CPU. However, there is
> another
> S/390 CPU in the box as well. It is not visible (at least directly) to
On 8/6/15 10:43 AM, Dave G4UGM wrote:
-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck
Guzis
Sent: 06 August 2015 17:24
To: gene...@classiccmp.org; discuss...@classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off-
Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Booting an IBM MP 3000 S/390
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck
> Guzis
> Sent: 06 August 2015 17:24
> To: gene...@classiccmp.org; discuss...@classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off-
> Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: Booting an IBM MP 3000 S/390 System
>
> On 08/06/2015 0
In many cases more than one! ;-)
But more to the point, having a separate processor handing the booting
chores frees the
main CPU from those tasks. Initialization can be a pain just look at
the x86 ISA and the
hoops it makes the S/W (BIOS & OS) just to get to the point where the OS
can reall
Even modern SOCs and the processor in your PC/laptop have a
micro-controller or PMIC that brings ups the rest of the chip. In the PC
case (verses mainframe) it is on the same die and fabric as the CPU (and
the scads of other CPUs, GPUs, Sensor Hubs, vision processors, etc).
Lee C.
On Thu, Aug 6,
- Original Message -
From: "Tom Moss"
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2015 3:49 PM
Subject: Wanted: Pertec Tape Controller
> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking for a pertec controller suitable for a Qualstar 1052.
> ISA/SCSI/S-100 interfaces are
On 08/06/2015 10:35 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 8/6/15 8:30 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote:
I wouldn't mind one as well -- I have a handful of Pertec
drives that it
would be nice to be able to talk to. One that handles
multiple
interface speeds would be a plus.
I suppose I could always design one ;
> As a total aside, on some HP boards there is a 16 pin DIL package with the
> part number 1260-0339.
> Any ideas what that chip is?
What chip?
Amazingly there is nothing inside that 16pin DIL package. No silicon chip, no
thick-film resistor
network, nothing. It is just a package with the pins
On 08/06/2015 08:04 AM, Sean Caron wrote:
If you think the MP3000 is a slow booter, we just got some new 4U
machines in where I work; 1.5TB RAM; those things take almost 20
minutes to POST - no joke!
Booting an old CDC 6000-series machine meant mounting a "deadstart"
tape, pushing the button
On 08/06/2015 08:35 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
Formatted Pertec is a fairly simple interface. Chuck has talked in
the past of designing one, and some of the gotchas with the
interface.
Qualstar built two different styles of Pertec-SCSI adapter for the
1054. I'll see about putting board pics and rom d
And so it remains today; most servers sold for data center applications
include a little service processor ... I've found it's usually a little
embedded ARM or PPC ... that you can use for remote console, remote power
control, etc. Although these are not required to bootstrap the system, of
course.
BTW I love your little terminal room there ... these things are on the
fantasy list for me right next to the LISP Machine and TOAD-1, LOL. I
wonder if it runs MTS? :O At least I've got Hercules :O
Best,
Sean
On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Sean Caron wrote:
> And so it remains today; most se
On 8/6/15 8:30 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote:
I wouldn't mind one as well -- I have a handful of Pertec drives that it
would be nice to be able to talk to. One that handles multiple
interface speeds would be a plus.
I suppose I could always design one ;)
Formatted Pertec is a fairly simple int
I wouldn't mind one as well -- I have a handful of Pertec drives that it
would be nice to be able to talk to. One that handles multiple
interface speeds would be a plus.
I suppose I could always design one ;)
On 8/6/2015 8:49 AM, Tom Moss wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking for a pertec contr
Lots of machines have had console processors that were required for the
machine to run. The PDP-10 had a PDP-11 console processor. The Amdahl
470 had a DG Nova for a console processor, etc. etc.
On 8/6/2015 8:16 AM, geneb wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Aug 2015, Marc Verdiell wrote:
>
>> Wow. I'll never c
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow
> Sent: 06 August 2015 15:34
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: Booting an IBM MP 3000 S/390 System
>
>
>
> On 8/6/15 6:16 AM, geneb wrote:
> > One thing I don't understand - why can
On 08/06/2015 07:33 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
Main processor microcode is in RAM. Putting microcode in ram and having
a small computer load it was actually pretty common in the 70's and 80's
in larger systems since then you didn't have to manage the hassle of
patching microcode in ROM.
Apple ended u
On 8/6/15 6:16 AM, geneb wrote:
One thing I don't understand - why can't the machine boot on its own?
Why would IBM design a computer that required another computer just to
boot it?
Main processor microcode is in RAM. Putting microcode in ram and having
a small computer load it was actuall
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015, Jay West wrote:
Gene wrote...
-
One thing I don't understand - why can't the machine boot on its own? Why
would IBM design a computer that required another computer just to boot it?
To report higher sales of OS2/Warp? ;)
I'll rate that as "Midly Plausible". :)
N
On 06/08/15 14:38, Jay West wrote:
Gene wrote...
-
One thing I don't understand - why can't the machine boot on its own? Why
would IBM design a computer that required another computer just to boot it?
To report higher sales of OS2/Warp? ;)
Not the only one though, ISTR the 11/780 used
> On Aug 6, 2015, at 9:47 AM, William Donzelli wrote:
>
>> To report higher sales of OS2/Warp? ;)
>>
>> Not the only one though, ISTR the 11/780 used a 11/03 to boot?
>
> Quite a lots of larger machines do.
A lot of machines have I/O processors of some sort, and often those boot first.
You
Hi all,
I'm looking for a pertec controller suitable for a Qualstar 1052.
ISA/SCSI/S-100 interfaces are fine. If anyone has one to sell, please let
me know.
Regards,
-Tom
> To report higher sales of OS2/Warp? ;)
>
> Not the only one though, ISTR the 11/780 used a 11/03 to boot?
Quite a lots of larger machines do.
--
Will
Gene wrote...
-
One thing I don't understand - why can't the machine boot on its own? Why
would IBM design a computer that required another computer just to boot it?
To report higher sales of OS2/Warp? ;)
Not the only one though, ISTR the 11/780 used a 11/03 to boot?
J
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015, Marc Verdiell wrote:
Wow. I'll never complain again that it takes too long to boot Windows...
One thing I don't understand - why can't the machine boot on its own? Why
would IBM design a computer that required another computer just to boot
it?
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C
>
> Never was. You always did use weird pints. They were *our* bloody
> silly measure, until we adopted something more sensible and easier to
> use...
Actually, 10 is a lousy base for a measuring system. It has far too few factors.
> And *nobody* else uses pounds, Fahrenheit or MM-DD-YY. Not in
On 5 August 2015 at 20:25, Fred Cisin wrote:
> "A pint is a pound, the world around." is no longer true.
Never was. You always did use weird pints. They were *our* bloody
silly measure, until we adopted something more sensible and easier to
use...
And *nobody* else uses pounds, Fahrenheit or MM-
the P/390 / R/390 systems are the smallest, but they don't support a lot
of systems features, such as LPARS and the like that you need to be a
full S/390 system.
Also the card doesn't fully support z/OS. Redbook on page 17 says,
"Don't call us because it looks like it runs z/OS".
The MP3000
On Tue, 4 Aug 2015, Guy Sotomayor wrote:
I spent some time today and made a video of my MP 3000 system booting up to
z/OS. The video is here: http://youtu.be/WnJmeQR0GQU.
I thought the P/390 was the smallest S/390?
Christian
Wow. I'll never complain again that it takes too long to boot Windows...
80 matches
Mail list logo
