[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-11 Thread Tony Duell via cctalk
On Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 9:07 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > "While I don’t recall saying that, I may well have - I know that I was > involved in the engineering question of how safe it would be to use. > > The inverter produced 230 VDC, which it turned out could be safely fed to > the 120V

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-11 Thread Tony Duell via cctalk
On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 1:25 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > I'm a bit surprised that there don't seem to be any adaptations that > hook into the head pre-amps and use an ADC to give a view of what the > read signal actually looks like. Maybe that's asking too much--there > are certainly MC

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-11 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
I'm a bit surprised that there don't seem to be any adaptations that hook into the head pre-amps and use an ADC to give a view of what the read signal actually looks like. Maybe that's asking too much--there are certainly MCUs with sufficiently fast ADCs and memory to do this. --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-11 Thread Sellam Abraham via cctalk
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 1:43 PM Robert Feldman via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >Message: 21 > >Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2023 04:35:28 +0100 > >From: Tony Duell > >Subject: [cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks. > > > >On S

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-06 Thread Tony Duell via cctalk
On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 1:36 AM John Floren via cctalk wrote: > Thanks, Bob, that would be very helpful! I think the biggest thing is > figuring out how the pack was wired into the J4 header on the PSU... if > you've got the manuals for the DC option, it might have schematics too. Be very caref

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-06 Thread John Floren via cctalk
On Tuesday, June 6th, 2023 at 2:38 PM, Robert Feldman via cctalk wrote: > > > >Message: 7 > > > Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2023 02:41:56 + > > From: John Floren j...@jfloren.net > > Subject: [cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks. > >

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-06 Thread Robert Feldman via cctalk
>Message: 7 >Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2023 02:41:56 + >From: John Floren >Subject: [cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks. >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > >It's funny that luggable power packs come up h

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-05 Thread Tony Duell via cctalk
On Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 3:42 AM John Floren via cctalk wrote: > It's funny that luggable power packs come up here as I'm trying to revive my > Otrona Attache... The power supply does nothing on AC input, even after a > recapping, so I thought I'd investigate the "DC Power Option" described in >

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-05 Thread John Floren via cctalk
On Monday, June 5th, 2023 at 1:43 PM, Robert Feldman via cctalk wrote: > > > >Message: 21 > > > Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2023 04:35:28 +0100 > > From: Tony Duell ard.p850...@gmail.com > > Subject: [cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks. > &g

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-05 Thread Robert Feldman via cctalk
>Message: 21 >Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2023 04:35:28 +0100 >From: Tony Duell >Subject: [cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks. > >On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 10:57 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: >> >> On Sun, 4 Jun 2023, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote:

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-04 Thread Johan Helsingius via cctalk
On 05/06/2023 00:37, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk wrote: Eh, this engineer strongly prefers a _practical_ car. That is why we have a Toyota Avensis station wagon - one of the last ones made. Never sold in the US. Unfortunately the successor (Camry) wich I liked because it has a linux-based e

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-04 Thread Tony Duell via cctalk
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 10:57 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > On Sun, 4 Jun 2023, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote: > > an example of early "mobile computing". (Tongue firmly in cheek). > > The original Osborne 1 had a 12V power input! Actually it's +12.6V and +5.6V and you have to supply both vo

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-04 Thread Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk
Back in the 70s, VW had a competition going when they came up with a diagnostic connector (maybe pre-dating OBD2 or J1850?) to give it a name. An engineer that sat next to me came up with what I thought should have been the winning entry, although I am not sure he entered it: "Debug the Bug pl

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-04 Thread Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk
Difficult to get the 60Hz pure AC to sync the data bits, I would think! On 2023-06-04 16:15, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote: Earlier today, I wrote: Doubtful that VW Bug was on the Autobahn at the time, and, while the advertisement was very novel with a full-on minicomputer in the back seat of

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-04 Thread Peter Coghlan via cctalk
Rick Bensene wrote: > Earlier today, I wrote: > >>> Doubtful that VW Bug was on the Autobahn at the time, and, while the >>> advertisement was very >>> novel with a full-on minicomputer in the back seat of a VW Bug, the amount >>> of data >>> potentially being transported was likely only 4K 12-b

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-04 Thread Sellam Abraham via cctalk
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 1:16 PM Rick Bensene via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I'm not sure that you could fit a complete Model 33-ASR Teletype in the > passenger seat of > the Bug. I suppose if the Teletype was removed from its stand, it might be > able to sit on the > seat, and be powe

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-04 Thread Alexander Schreiber via cctalk
On Sat, Jun 03, 2023 at 07:47:35PM -0500, Cory Heisterkamp via cctalk wrote: > > > On Jun 3, 2023, at 7:12 PM, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk > > wrote: > > So the Mercedes T model was (at least in Germany, the manufacturers country) > > never called a "station wagon" because that category name

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-04 Thread Alexander Schreiber via cctalk
On Sun, Jun 04, 2023 at 11:39:08AM +0200, Harald Arnesen via cctalk wrote: > Fred Cisin via cctalk [04/06/2023 02.50]: > > On Sun, 4 Jun 2023, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > > > So the Mercedes T model was (at least in Germany, the manufacturers > > > country) > > > never called a "station wagon" be

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-04 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
Doubtful that VW Bug was on the Autobahn at the time, and, while the . . . Now, if the Bug had a trailer hitch, it could tow a trailer behind it with a gasoline or diesel powered generator with sufficient capacity to run the PDP-8. Are you suggesting some kind of, say, portable computer? Run

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-04 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
On Sun, 4 Jun 2023, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote: an example of early "mobile computing". (Tongue firmly in cheek). The original Osborne 1 had a 12V power input! Lee Felsenstein was asked how large and heavy the battery pack would be. He replied that it was not intended to be run portably on

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-04 Thread David Arnold via cctalk
I had a Gen6 Golf wagon. Remarkably useful luggage capacity, but I don’t think it would have fitted a full-depth rack through the tailgate. Plenty of mag tape or SD-card space though. d > On 4 Jun 2023, at 04:00, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk > wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 01, 2023 at 02:3

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-04 Thread David Barto via cctalk
> On Jun 4, 2023, at 11:54 AM, Rick Bensene via cctalk > wrote: > > > >> >>> yes. a Kombi full of tapes hurtling down the highway. >> >> ...down the Autobahn. > > > Ben F. wrote regarding transport of data in a moving vehicle: > >> the Autobahn... >> https://www.computerhistory.org/revol

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-04 Thread Rick Bensene via cctalk
Earlier today, I wrote: >> Doubtful that VW Bug was on the Autobahn at the time, and, while the >> advertisement was very >> novel with a full-on minicomputer in the back seat of a VW Bug, the amount >> of data >> potentially being transported was likely only 4K 12-bit words, or 48K bits. >> Si

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-04 Thread Rick Bensene via cctalk
> >> yes.  a Kombi full of tapes hurtling down the highway. > > ...down the Autobahn. Ben F. wrote regarding transport of data in a moving vehicle: > the Autobahn... > https://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/artifact/331/1893 Doubtful that VW Bug was on the Autobahn at the time, and, wh

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-04 Thread emanuel stiebler via cctalk
On 2023-06-04 13:24, ben via cctalk wrote: Down the Autobahn... https://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/artifact/331/1893 I think the "bug" is in the back of a "beetle" :)

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-04 Thread ben via cctalk
On 2023-06-04 3:39 a.m., Harald Arnesen via cctalk wrote: Fred Cisin via cctalk [04/06/2023 02.50]: On Sun, 4 Jun 2023, Alexander Schreiber wrote: So the Mercedes T model was (at least in Germany, the manufacturers country) never called a "station wagon" because that category name doesn't exis

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-04 Thread Harald Arnesen via cctalk
Fred Cisin via cctalk [04/06/2023 02.50]: On Sun, 4 Jun 2023, Alexander Schreiber wrote: So the Mercedes T model was (at least in Germany, the manufacturers country) never called a "station wagon" because that category name doesn't exist there. The closest analogue to it in German parlance would

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-04 Thread David Barto via cctalk
The reason for the “station wagon” going ways was the CAFE standards. The modern SUV is based on a TRUCK chassis, and thus not restricted in MPG ratings from the US government. If you have a “station wagon” that is a “car” it is thus subject to CAFE standards. Ford only makes the Mustang as a c

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-03 Thread Sellam Abraham via cctalk
On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 5:50 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > My original comment was intended to be analogous to Tony (ARD)'s > comment about problem with "sneaker-net" due to "sneakers" being > unobtanium in UK. (yes, they do have some shoes that WE might consider to > be the same as "sneakers

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-03 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
Many companies make suitable vehicles, but NONE of them are willing to call them "station wagons". If the Purchase Order explicitly specifies "Station Wagon", then will the bureaucrats in purchasing let you substitute a "Variant", instead of a "Station Wagon"? On Sun, 4 Jun 2023, Alexander Schr

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-03 Thread Cory Heisterkamp via cctalk
> On Jun 3, 2023, at 7:12 PM, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk > wrote: > So the Mercedes T model was (at least in Germany, the manufacturers country) > never called a "station wagon" because that category name doesn't exist > there. The closest analogue to it in German parlance would be the "Komb

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-03 Thread Sellam Abraham via cctalk
On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 5:20 PM Alexander Schreiber via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > So the Mercedes T model was (at least in Germany, the manufacturers > country) > never called a "station wagon" because that category name doesn't exist > there. The closest analogue to it in German p

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-03 Thread Alexander Schreiber via cctalk
On Sat, Jun 03, 2023 at 03:03:43PM -0700, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > > But, there is another problem. > > > None of the auto makers still make "Station Wagon"s! > > On Sat, 3 Jun 2023, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > > Not quite true. VW makes the "Variant" version of the VW Golf and > > Merced

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-03 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
On Sat, 3 Jun 2023, Wayne S wrote: It’s amazing to me how small “full size” cars are these days. I saw my old 1961 Ford Falcon that used to be a small car and its bigger than my “luxury full size” car today. The 1962 Ford Falcon "Squire Station Wagon" even had faux wood on the sides! The Ford

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-03 Thread Wayne S via cctalk
It’s amazing to me how small “full size” cars are these days. I saw my old 1961 Ford Falcon that used to be a small car and its bigger than my “luxury full size” car today. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 3, 2023, at 15:06, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > >  >> >>> On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 8:24 A

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-03 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 8:24 AM Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: I did see an actual 1970s station wagon loaded with RL02 cartridges once, pulled up at the dock of Baker Systems, the large Computer Science building at Ohio State (I suspect they were cleaning out a machine room and someone wanted the

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-03 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
But, there is another problem. None of the auto makers still make "Station Wagon"s! On Sat, 3 Jun 2023, Alexander Schreiber wrote: Not quite true. VW makes the "Variant" version of the VW Golf and Mercedes still makes the "t model" of the C and E class, all of which are basically station wagons

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-03 Thread Ethan Dicks via cctalk
On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 4:38 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 8:24 AM Ethan Dicks via cctalk > wrote: > > > I did see an actual 1970s station wagon loaded with RL02 cartridges > > once, pulled up at the dock of Baker Systems, the large Computer > > Science building at O

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-03 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 6/3/23 12:54, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk wrote: But can it handle any kind of rack mount computer? > > Depends. I'm pretty sure it won't fit a full height rack, but as long > as the computer only occupies _part_ of the rack it might fit. I _have_ > used the car to transport more than a doz

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-03 Thread Alexander Schreiber via cctalk
On Sat, Jun 03, 2023 at 12:25:48PM -0600, ben via cctalk wrote: > On 2023-06-03 11:46 a.m., Alexander Schreiber via cctalk wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 01, 2023 at 02:33:07PM -0700, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > > > > > But, there is another problem. > > > > > > None of the auto makers still make "S

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-03 Thread ben via cctalk
On 2023-06-03 11:46 a.m., Alexander Schreiber via cctalk wrote: On Thu, Jun 01, 2023 at 02:33:07PM -0700, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: But, there is another problem. None of the auto makers still make "Station Wagon"s! Not quite true. VW makes the "Variant" version of the VW Golf and Mercede

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-03 Thread Alexander Schreiber via cctalk
On Thu, Jun 01, 2023 at 02:33:07PM -0700, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > But, there is another problem. > > None of the auto makers still make "Station Wagon"s! Not quite true. VW makes the "Variant" version of the VW Golf and Mercedes still makes the "t model" of the C and E class, all of wh

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-02 Thread Sellam Abraham via cctalk
On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 8:24 AM Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: > I did see an actual 1970s station wagon loaded with RL02 cartridges > once, pulled up at the dock of Baker Systems, the large Computer > Science building at Ohio State (I suspect they were cleaning out a > machine room and someone wan

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-02 Thread Ethan Dicks via cctalk
On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 4:45 PM Alexander Schreiber via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 05:01:34PM -0700, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > What is the bandwidth of a station wagon full of 1TB Mcro-SD cards hurtling > > down the highway? > > $BIGNUM. I did see an actual 1970s station wagon

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-02 Thread Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via cctalk
Fred Cisin via cctalk writes: > Data will expand to fill slightly more than all available storage > capacity.- Boyle's law "The steady state of disks is full." --Ken Thompson -tih -- Most people who graduate with CS degrees don't understand the significance of Lisp. Lisp is the most impo

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-01 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
But, there is another problem. None of the auto makers still make "Station Wagon"s! On Thu, 1 Jun 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: That's not true, Audi, Mercedes, Volvo all have wagons and I suppose one could consider the Subaru Outback to be one. Many SUVs remind me of light trucks. Take,

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-01 Thread Mike Katz via cctalk
I'm sorry but Audi does not make a lowly station wagon😲 They use to make the all road which is basically a cross over. And they have several models of Avant (fancy snooty name for station wagon).😁 Audi has announced for 2025 the RS6 Avant Plug In Hybrid  (full specs haven't been released yet

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-01 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 6/1/23 14:33, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > But, there is another problem. > > None of the auto makers still make "Station Wagon"s! > That's not true, Audi, Mercedes, Volvo all have wagons and I suppose one could consider the Subaru Outback to be one. Many SUVs remind me of light trucks. T

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-01 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
What is the bandwidth of a station wagon full of 1TB Mcro-SD cards hurtling down the highway? On 2023-06-01 2:40 p.m., Alexander Schreiber via cctalk wrote: $BIGNUM. But the latency is going to be orders of magnitude worse than the station wagon full of tapes, so there is that. Also, SD card r

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-01 Thread ben via cctalk
On 2023-06-01 2:40 p.m., Alexander Schreiber via cctalk wrote: On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 05:01:34PM -0700, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: What is the bandwidth of a station wagon full of 1TB Mcro-SD cards hurtling down the highway? $BIGNUM. But the latency is going to be orders of magnitude worse

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-01 Thread Alexander Schreiber via cctalk
On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 05:01:34PM -0700, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > What is the bandwidth of a station wagon full of 1TB Mcro-SD cards hurtling > down the highway? $BIGNUM. But the latency is going to be orders of magnitude worse than the station wagon full of tapes, so there is that. Also,

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-01 Thread Alexander Schreiber via cctalk
On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 04:26:56PM -0700, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > > > I think I will just convert file sizes to lengths of paper tape for > > > > comparison: > > > > > > > > 1K            102.4" > > > > 10K      85' > > > > 100K        853' > > > > 1M           1.6 Miles > > > > 10M  

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-06-01 Thread Mike Katz via cctalk
On 5/31/2023 10:03 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 7:32 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: What is the bandwidth of a station wagon full of 1TB Mcro-SD cards hurtling down the highway? I suspect that a mobility scooter filled with a few thousand 1TB microSD cards rol

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread Sellam Abraham via cctalk
On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 7:32 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > >>> What is the bandwidth of a station wagon full of 1TB Mcro-SD cards > >>> hurtling down the highway? > >> I suspect that a mobility scooter filled with a few thousand 1TB microSD > >> cards rolling down a sidewalk has a larger band

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
What is the bandwidth of a station wagon full of 1TB Mcro-SD cards hurtling down the highway? I suspect that a mobility scooter filled with a few thousand 1TB microSD cards rolling down a sidewalk has a larger bandwidth than the station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. On Wed, 31

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
The exact quote by Andrew Tanenbaum is: "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway.". https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Andrew_S._Tanenbaum Randall Munroe has addressed the issue! : https://what-if.xkcd.com/31/ On Wed, 31 May 2023, Sellam Abraham

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread Mike Katz via cctalk
Make that 22 TB hard drive and the storage density goes way up. On 5/31/2023 7:25 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 5/31/23 17:01, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: What is the bandwidth of a station wagon full of 1TB Mcro-SD cards hurtling down the highway? I suspect that a mobility scooter fil

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread Sellam Abraham via cctalk
On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 5:01 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > What is the bandwidth of a station wagon full of 1TB Mcro-SD cards > hurtling down the highway? > This is actually a compelling thought. My answer: a lot. With regards to punched cards: I imagine I converted about 200,000 during th

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread Mike Katz via cctalk
This has been covered here before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2549 The bit rate over internet over non-electronic transmission methods depends on several factors: 1. Speed of the mechanical transfer medium (Car, motorcycle, drone, ai

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread Ali via cctalk
>AH! NUTS! :)>Runs and ducks...That's actually pretty funny and much milder >then what I was screaming...-Ali

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/31/23 17:01, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > What is the bandwidth of a station wagon full of 1TB Mcro-SD cards > hurtling down the highway? I suspect that a mobility scooter filled with a few thousand 1TB microSD cards rolling down a sidewalk has a larger bandwidth than the station wagon full

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
What is the bandwidth of a station wagon full of 1TB Mcro-SD cards hurtling down the highway?

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread Paul Koning via cctalk
> On May 31, 2023, at 6:51 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk > wrote: > > Believe it or not I thought of that and tons of paper tape > > Here are some other some other good comparisons: > > Reels of DECtape > Reels of magnetic tape. > 300 baud audio cassettes. > Hours to print on a 110 baud Teletype

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
I think I will just convert file sizes to lengths of paper tape for comparison: 1K            102.4" 10K      85' 100K        853' 1M           1.6 Miles 10M    16.5 Miles 100M       165 Miles 1G            1,695 Miles 10G          16,947 Miles 100G        6.8 Earth Circumferences 1T   

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
Paper tape 1K            102.4" 10K      85' 100K        853' 1M           1.6 Miles 10M    16.5 Miles 100M       165 Miles 1G            1,695 Miles 10G          16,947 Miles 100G        6.8 Earth Circumferences 1T        69.8 Earth Circumferences How about converting that to ton

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread ben via cctalk
On 2023-05-31 4:31 p.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 5/31/23 13:33, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: I think I will just convert file sizes to lengths of paper tape for comparison: 1K            102.4" 10K      85' 100K        853' 1M           1.6 Miles 10M    16.5 Miles 100M       16

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread Mike Katz via cctalk
Believe it or not I thought of that and tons of paper tape Here are some other some other good comparisons: Reels of DECtape Reels of magnetic tape. 300 baud audio cassettes. Hours to print on a 110 baud Teletype Miles of Teletype paper or fanfold paper Tons of drum storage 14" platters end to e

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/31/23 13:33, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > I think I will just convert file sizes to lengths of paper tape for > comparison: > > 1K            102.4" > 10K      85' > 100K        853' > 1M           1.6 Miles > 10M    16.5 Miles > 100M       165 Miles > 1G            1,695 Miles > 10

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread Will Cooke via cctalk
> On 05/31/2023 3:33 PM CDT Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > > > I think I will just convert file sizes to lengths of paper tape for > comparison: > > 1K 102.4" > 10K 85' > 100K 853' > 1M 1.6 Miles > 10M 16.5 Miles > 100M 165 Miles > 1G 1,695 Miles > 10G 16,947 Miles > 100G 6.8 Earth Circumfere

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread Mike Katz via cctalk
I think I will just convert file sizes to lengths of paper tape for comparison: 1K            102.4" 10K      85' 100K        853' 1M           1.6 Miles 10M    16.5 Miles 100M       165 Miles 1G            1,695 Miles 10G          16,947 Miles 100G        6.8 Earth Circumferences 1T   

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
On Wed, 31 May 2023, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk wrote: "Too much storage capacity" is a thing that fundamentally cannot exist, data grows to fill available storage capacity eventually (and usually much sooner than one likes). ;-) Data will expand to fill slightly more than all available sto

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread ben via cctalk
On 2023-05-31 1:52 p.m., Alexander Schreiber via cctalk wrote: On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 12:22:53PM -0500, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: In 1981 when i got my first 5MB hard disk drive at work (I had to write the drivers for the OS myself) I was able to put all or my source code, binaries, executabl

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread Alexander Schreiber via cctalk
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 12:22:53PM -0500, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > In 1981 when i got my first 5MB hard disk drive at work (I had to write the > drivers for the OS myself) I was able to put all or my source code, > binaries, executable, applications and the operating system and not fill > half

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-31 Thread ben via cctalk
On 2023-05-30 11:19 p.m., Ali via cctalk wrote: I heard that Duracell now has a "bitterant" coating on its 2032 batteries; so that you will spit it out. Fred, That's been there for a while. It is aimed at babies swallowing coin batteries of all sorts. Mine was pure stupidity. I had spent the

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-30 Thread Ali via cctalk
> I heard that Duracell now has a "bitterant" coating on its 2032 > batteries; > so that you will spit it out. Fred, That's been there for a while. It is aimed at babies swallowing coin batteries of all sorts. Mine was pure stupidity. I had spent the whole weekend working on and rebuilding the i

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-30 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
No kidding. That 64GB fingernail can easily hide in clothing On Tue, 30 May 2023, Ali via cctalk wrote: Or make it easily edible... Say if you were munching on some nuts while waiting... Ask me how I know *sigh* I heard that Duracell now has a "bitterant" coating on its 2032 batteries;

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-30 Thread Ali via cctalk
> No kidding. That 64GB fingernail can easily hide in clothing Or make it easily edible... Say if you were munching on some nuts while waiting... Ask me how I know *sigh* -Ali

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-30 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/30/23 11:57, ben via cctalk wrote: > ... until it gets swallowed by the gold fish. Or in my case, one of the dogs. I had one of those tiny chips slip between two panels in my workstation. Haven't retrieved it yet, but then it was "only" 16GB...

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-30 Thread Mike Katz via cctalk
/Look at it from the other side: you need two RL02s for a decent resolution picture of your dog this days :) / That's two 10.5" platters to store in decent size digital picture Each RL02 Platter is: Sides:                              2 Tracks:                            512 TPI:     

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-30 Thread ben via cctalk
On 2023-05-30 12:43 p.m., emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote: On 2023-05-30 13:08, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: "Sneakernet" or whatever, I'm still impressed that I can spend USD$3 for a 64GB microSD card and store the entire code output of my life I was looking for some files on my backup ta

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-30 Thread Sellam Abraham via cctalk
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 11:09 AM Paul Koning via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On May 30, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk > wrote: > > > > In 1981 when i got my first 5MB hard disk drive at work (I had to write > the drivers for the OS myself) I was able to put all or my sou

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-30 Thread Sellam Abraham via cctalk
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 9:37 AM Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 5:09 PM philip--- via cctalk > wrote: > > > > I wasn't trying to solve the whole problem at once! > > > > A lot of people have recommended "sneakernet" to connect your modern > > That's an expression which alw

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-30 Thread Liam Proven via cctalk
On Tue, 30 May 2023 at 19:56, Jeff Woolsey via cctalk wrote: > > I'm also amazed that I can put together a still reasonably impressive > 14-year-old MacBook Pro for < $100. That's $40 for the empty laptop > as-is at a flea market, ~$15 for 8GB RAM, ~$45 for 960GB SSD. I lucked > out in that ther

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-30 Thread ben via cctalk
On 2023-05-30 11:08 a.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: "Sneakernet" or whatever, I'm still impressed that I can spend USD$3 for a 64GB microSD card and store the entire code output of my life and still have lots of room left over for photos of my dogs. --Chuck ... until it gets swallowed by

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-30 Thread Jeff Woolsey via cctalk
On 5/30/23 10:08 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: "Sneakernet" or whatever, I'm still impressed that I can spend USD$3 for a 64GB microSD card and store the entire code output of my life and still have lots of room left over for photos of my dogs. --Chuck No kidding.  That 64GB fingernail can

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-30 Thread emanuel stiebler via cctalk
On 2023-05-30 13:08, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: "Sneakernet" or whatever, I'm still impressed that I can spend USD$3 for a 64GB microSD card and store the entire code output of my life I was looking for some files on my backup tapes, wondering if I have enough space on my drives to simply

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-30 Thread Mike Katz via cctalk
No to mention the 32K 12 bit word (48k Byte) DF-32 fixed head hard disk. 16 Data tracks, 4 control tracks. 2048 bytes/track 10" disk (1/4" thick) 1100 BPI 50 LBS On 5/30/2023 1:09 PM, Paul Koning wrote: On May 30, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: In 1981 when i got my first 5

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-30 Thread Paul Koning via cctalk
> On May 30, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk > wrote: > > In 1981 when i got my first 5MB hard disk drive at work (I had to write the > drivers for the OS myself) I was able to put all or my source code, binaries, > executable, applications and the operating system and not fill half

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-30 Thread Mike Katz via cctalk
In 1981 when i got my first 5MB hard disk drive at work (I had to write the drivers for the OS myself) I was able to put all or my source code, binaries, executable, applications and the operating system and not fill half of that disk. A single .raw file from my camera can be over 20MB now. I

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-30 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
"Sneakernet" or whatever, I'm still impressed that I can spend USD$3 for a 64GB microSD card and store the entire code output of my life and still have lots of room left over for photos of my dogs. --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-30 Thread Tony Duell via cctalk
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 5:09 PM philip--- via cctalk wrote: > > I wasn't trying to solve the whole problem at once! > > A lot of people have recommended "sneakernet" to connect your modern That's an expression which always sounds odd to me. The footwear known as 'sneakers' across the Pond is, I b

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-30 Thread philip--- via cctalk
Tony, I don't recall what became of the AT with 486 replacement processor that used to be your main home machine. ISTR it had loads of different floppy drives hung off it. Is it still functional / repairable? Still works, or at least it did when I last powered it up. But no easy way to read

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-28 Thread Adrian Godwin via cctalk
On Sun, May 28, 2023 at 7:18 AM Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > > > > Tony, I don't recall what became of the AT with 486 replacement > > processor that used to be your main home machine. ISTR it had loads of > > different floppy drives hung off it. Is it still functional / > repairable? > > Sti

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-28 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/28/23 09:17, Tony Duell wrote: > I've come across the former and have the datasheets. From what I > recall it was common to use it a control store sequencer and have > microcode ROMs wider than the 8X300 needed, the extra bits were used > to directly control hardware. Power hog (well, it was

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-28 Thread Tony Duell via cctalk
On Sun, May 28, 2023 at 4:36 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > All of these flux-transition gizmos, whether or not they're the > Applesauce, Greaseweazle, Catweasel, Fluxengine, Deviceside work > exactly the same way. A counter free-runs, and every time there's > change in direction of mag

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-28 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/28/23 07:54, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: >> I'm suprised to hear you're familliar with the GreaseWeasel but have > Most of my computers [1] use normal FM or MFM disks and I would hope > the Greaseweazle software could handle that.If I can convert to/from a > disk image file I can probably ca

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-28 Thread Tony Duell via cctalk
On Sun, May 28, 2023 at 2:32 PM Adrian Godwin via cctalk wrote: > > Tony, > > An instrument slightly more to your taste than a PC might a 16500b logic > analyser. Perhaps you've already got one. I believe these can work with > both LIF and MSDOS floppies and uses an IDE HDD (which can painlessly b

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-28 Thread Tony Duell via cctalk
> I'm suprised to hear you're familliar with the GreaseWeasel but have > never heard of BlueSCSI. ( https://scsi.blue/ ). Though SASI > compatability seems "possible but not guaranteed", being an open source > project, you can probably wangle the existing PCB's/software to be SASI > compliant. More

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-28 Thread Joshua Rice via cctalk
-- Original Message -- From: "Tony Duell via cctalk" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: phi...@axeside.co.uk; "Tony Duell" Sent: Sunday, 28 May, 2023 At 07:17 Subject: [cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real flo

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

2023-05-28 Thread Adrian Godwin via cctalk
Tony, An instrument slightly more to your taste than a PC might a 16500b logic analyser. Perhaps you've already got one. I believe these can work with both LIF and MSDOS floppies and uses an IDE HDD (which can painlessly be replaced with CF card) in DOS format internally. I don't know if it will h

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