On 5/28/24 17:02, ben via cctalk wrote:
> On 2024-05-28 5:45 p.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>> On 5/28/24 16:29, ben via cctalk wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-28 1:23 p.m., John via cctalk wrote:
>>>
So what, then, consitutes a Real Operating System, and why?
>>>
>>> I am grumpy about OS's like MS
On Tue, 28 May 2024, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
If the file system and basic I/O functions drivers are in ROM what is the
difference between a BIOS and an Operating System.
Technically speaking, for some, the BIOS offers a hardware abstraction level to some more
generic software that runs on
On 2024-05-28 5:45 p.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 5/28/24 16:29, ben via cctalk wrote:
On 2024-05-28 1:23 p.m., John via cctalk wrote:
So what, then, consitutes a Real Operating System, and why?
I am grumpy about OS's like MSDOS, in that programs kept by passing
DOS to handle screen,
On 5/28/24 16:29, ben via cctalk wrote:
> On 2024-05-28 1:23 p.m., John via cctalk wrote:
>
>> So what, then, consitutes a Real Operating System, and why?
>
> I am grumpy about OS's like MSDOS, in that programs kept by passing
> DOS to handle screen, and serial IO.
> I also favor OS's that don't
So what, then, consitutes a Real Operating System, and why?
On Tue, 28 May 2024, ben via cctalk wrote:
I am grumpy about OS's like MSDOS, in that programs kept by passing
DOS to handle screen, and serial IO.
I also favor OS's that don't require one to build a file control block.
Is it not "Re
> On May 28, 2024, at 5:49 PM, Mike Katz wrote:
>
> Paul, you said:
> I'd say an OS is a software system that runs on bare metal (or equivalent,
> like a VM) and offers a set of services intended to make creating and running
> applications easier. In that sense, RT-11 SJ or OS/360 PCP are o
On 2024-05-28 1:23 p.m., John via cctalk wrote:
So what, then, consitutes a Real Operating System, and why?
I am grumpy about OS's like MSDOS, in that programs kept by passing
DOS to handle screen, and serial IO.
I also favor OS's that don't require one to build a file control block.
ervices.🙂
My comments are not intended to inflame but rather to cause further discussion.
On 5/28/2024 2:38 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
On May 28, 2024, at 3:24 PM, John via cctalk wrote:
From: ben
To:cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: [cctalk] Re: terminology [was: First Personal Comput
On Tue, 28 May 2024, John via cctalk wrote:
Even putting aside what
"handles IRQs" means here (yes, strictly speaking the IRQs on the IBM
PC are handled by the BIOS and/or add-on drivers/utilties, but DOS most
certainly makes use of the facilities provided,)
Installed add-on drivers/utilities b
> On May 28, 2024, at 3:24 PM, John via cctalk wrote:
>
> From: ben
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: [cctalk] Re: terminology [was: First Personal Computer]
>
>> The third thing is a real OS. Nobody has one, as a personal computer.
>> CP/M and MSDOS does
From: ben
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: [cctalk] Re: terminology [was: First Personal Computer]
> The third thing is a real OS. Nobody has one, as a personal computer.
> CP/M and MSDOS does not handle IRQ's. Unix for the PDP-11 is real
> operating system but not personal as
> On May 28, 2024, at 9:23 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 5/26/2024 2:50 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
>> I think the most important thing for a Personal Computer,
>> is the average Joe, can afford and use it. The second thing is
>> to have ample memory and IO to run useful
On 5/26/2024 2:11 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
how many people here still use the 16Kb (favorite machine)
with tape IO?
I can, and have recently. TRS-80 Model I. In order to do
some stuff with Tiny Pascal. But not so much any more as
the machine also has 48K available if I hook up the EI
On 5/26/2024 2:50 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
I think the most important thing for a Personal Computer,
is the average Joe, can afford and use it. The second thing is
to have ample memory and IO to run useful programs. The basic Apple
I,II does not count as many others as it had BASIC in ROM
On Mon, May 27, 2024 at 1:40 AM Rick Bensene via cctalk
wrote:
>
> Mike Katz wrote:
>
> > I'm sorry but you are misinformed about the HP-41C Calculator.
>
> > The HP-41 was the first calculator that had Alpha-Numerics.
>
> That is not true.
>
> Technically, out of the box, it was the HP 9830. Yes
Mike Katz wrote:
> I'm sorry but you are misinformed about the HP-41C Calculator.
> The HP-41 was the first calculator that had Alpha-Numerics.
That is not true.
Technically, out of the box, it was the HP 9830. Yes, it wasn't a handheld
calculator, and it didn't run on batteries(it was big
Carey S. writes:
> If it only manipulates numeric data, it is a calculator. It must be able to
> search,
> rearrange look up, compare, and display characters. I would have thought
> that to be
> obvious. ...if it cannot give a text description of the answer, it is
> a
> calculator.
> Als
OS/9 was an incredible operating system for an 8 bit machine. Level 1
was a bit limited. But level II, which could address a megabyte of
memory or more, supported multiple tasks, users and intelligent
peripherals. It supported applications in ROM and RAM and made full use
of all of the advan
i'm sorry but you are misinformed about the HP-41C Calculator.
The HP-41 was the first calculator that had Alpha-Numerics. It could
very well give text descriptions, text prompts and even manipulate
text. It also had a full goto and gosub to alphanumeric labels.
It had a very sophisticated
On 5/26/24 14:14, CAREY SCHUG wrote:
> if it only manipulates numeric data, it is a calculator. It must be able to
> search, rearrange look up, compare, and display characters. I would have
> thought that to be obvious. I don'care if it has 99 terabites of high speed
> memory and does fourier
You rap the drive to get it unstuck, but if you rap it too hard
the machine would reset.
On Sun, 26 May 2024, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote:
I think I had a co-worker like that once.
The problem with trying to implement percussive maintenance with cow-
orkers, is that the force needed to un
"Real OS"? While I don't agree with your specific examples of
inadequacies, I will readily concede that nothing so far is ready for the
title.
On Sun, 26 May 2024, ben via cctalk wrote:
CP/M was the cats meyow in the 1970's,but there was other systems out like
flex for the 6800, or later OS/9
if it only manipulates numeric data, it is a calculator. It must be able to
search, rearrange look up, compare, and display characters. I would have
thought that to be obvious. I don'care if it has 99 terabites of high speed
memory and does fourier transforms in minus 0 seconds, if it cannot
On 2024-05-26 2:01 p.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 5/26/24 11:11, ben via cctalk wrote:
On 2024-05-26 10:56 a.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
I did use a CP/M machine once, but the 8" drive was a bit sticky.
You rap the drive to get it unstuck, but if you rap it too hard
the machine w
> You rap the drive to get it unstuck, but if you rap it too hard
> the machine would reset.
I think I had a co-worker like that once.
--
personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.co
On 5/26/24 11:11, ben via cctalk wrote:
> On 2024-05-26 10:56 a.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> I did use a CP/M machine once, but the 8" drive was a bit sticky.
> You rap the drive to get it unstuck, but if you rap it too hard
> the machine would reset.
Fred, just forget it. We belong to a b
On 2024-05-26 10:56 a.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
On Sun, 26 May 2024, ben via cctalk wrote:
I think the most important thing for a Personal Computer,
is the average Joe, can afford and use it. The second thing is
to have ample memory and IO to run useful programs. The basic Apple
I,II do
On Sun, 26 May 2024, ben via cctalk wrote:
I think the most important thing for a Personal Computer,
is the average Joe, can afford and use it. The second thing is
to have ample memory and IO to run useful programs. The basic Apple I,II
does not count as many others as it had BASIC in ROM and t
At the time of its release, (1) learning to program and (2) blinking lights was
enough to be a useful device.
--Carey
> On 05/26/2024 5:59 AM CDT Liam Proven via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 26 May 2024 at 07:50, ben via cctalk wrote:
> >
> > I think the most important thing for a Personal Co
Well said.
On Sun, 26 May 2024, 6:59 pm Liam Proven via cctalk,
wrote:
> On Sun, 26 May 2024 at 07:50, ben via cctalk
> wrote:
> >
> > I think the most important thing for a Personal Computer,
> > is the average Joe, can afford and use it.
>
> Yes, agreed.
>
> > The second thing is
> > to have
On 2024-05-25 5:42 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
I'm sorry but I beg to differ with you here. The DEC PDP line of single
user interactive computers (as opposed to batch processing only systems)
started in the late 1950's and early 1960's and spawned many generations
as well as copies and
I'm sorry but I beg to differ with you here. The DEC PDP line of single
user interactive computers (as opposed to batch processing only systems)
started in the late 1950's and early 1960's and spawned many generations
as well as copies and other companies (Data General being the most well
kn
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