[cctalk] Re: RSTS/E questions.

> On Dec 24, 2023, at 9:23 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > wrote: > > > > I am back to playing with RSTS/E 10.1 again and have a couple questions > if there is still anyone around with experience. > > First: Is there a way to change the allowed length for pas

[cctalk] RSTS/E questions.

I am back to playing with RSTS/E 10.1 again and have a couple questions if there is still anyone around with experience. First: Is there a way to change the allowed length for passwords? Second: Is there a way to make login take the assigned name rather than the x,x format for logins? I

[cctalk] Re: Two items for RSTS/E

> On Nov 20, 2023, at 10:05 PM, Tim Sneddon via cctalk > wrote: > > On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 at 06:13, Paul Koning via cctalk > wrote: > >> I just pushed two additions to https://github.com/pkoning2/decstuff : >> >> In "patches" a new patch for the DEUNA driver. This fixes a problem seen >> wh

[cctalk] Re: Two items for RSTS/E

On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 at 06:13, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > I just pushed two additions to https://github.com/pkoning2/decstuff : > > In "patches" a new patch for the DEUNA driver. This fixes a problem seen > when doing user (as opposed to DECnet) I/O, as well as two errors that show > up when

[cctalk] Two items for RSTS/E

I just pushed two additions to https://github.com/pkoning2/decstuff : In "patches" a new patch for the DEUNA driver. This fixes a problem seen when doing user (as opposed to DECnet) I/O, as well as two errors that show up when using units beyond the first. Directory "ntp" is new. This is a

[cctalk] Re: Installing DEC C on RSTS/E

Short for mim.stupi.net -- Johnny's web server where I found an assortment of RSX manuals, including a whole bunch of layered product manuals that carry over to other PDP-11 operating systems as well. A lot of them don't seem to be on Bitsavers. Among them are installat

[cctalk] Re: Installing DEC C on RSTS/E

> On Nov 8, 2023, at 1:54 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: > > On 2023-11-07 7:05 p.m., Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >>> On Nov 7, 2023, at 8:49 PM, Paul Koning wrote: >>> >>> Hi... I'm seriously rusty on official RSTS installation procedures. I'm >>> trying to install DEC C using the C_V1_2.ta

[cctalk] Re: Installing DEC C on RSTS/E

On 2023-11-07 7:05 p.m., Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Nov 7, 2023, at 8:49 PM, Paul Koning wrote: Hi... I'm seriously rusty on official RSTS installation procedures. I'm trying to install DEC C using the C_V1_2.tap file from the bitsavers bits/DEC/pdp11/rsts directory. It's actually

[cctalk] Re: Installing DEC C on RSTS/E

Not related to the original question, but what is "STUPI?" TIA! Lee C. On Tue, Nov 7, 2023 at 11:10 PM Paul Koning via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > On Nov 7, 2023, at 8:49 PM, Paul Koning wrote: > > > > Hi... I'm seriously rusty on official RSTS installation procedures. > I'

[cctalk] Re: Installing DEC C on RSTS/E

> On Nov 7, 2023, at 8:49 PM, Paul Koning wrote: > > Hi... I'm seriously rusty on official RSTS installation procedures. I'm > trying to install DEC C using the C_V1_2.tap file from the bitsavers > bits/DEC/pdp11/rsts directory. It's actually a TPC file, in spite of what > the extension

[cctalk] Installing DEC C on RSTS/E

Hi... I'm seriously rusty on official RSTS installation procedures. I'm trying to install DEC C using the C_V1_2.tap file from the bitsavers bits/DEC/pdp11/rsts directory. It's actually a TPC file, in spite of what the extension suggests. Once I supply the correct format, SIMH recognizes it

Re: RSTS/E version numbers

> On May 31, 2021, at 1:55 PM, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > On 31/05/2021 15:04, Paul Koning wrote: >> >> The earlier rule was that the first number is the major version, the letter >> is the minor version. As of V7 it changed to major number dot minor number. >> In either case, the dash nu

Re: RSTS/E version numbers

On 31/05/2021 15:04, Paul Koning wrote: The earlier rule was that the first number is the major version, the letter is the minor version. As of V7 it changed to major number dot minor number. In either case, the dash number suffix is the baselevel number (development build cycle number). T

Re: RSTS/E version numbers

> On May 31, 2021, at 10:04 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk > wrote: > > > >> On May 31, 2021, at 8:06 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk >> wrote: >> >> Can someone explain RSTS/E version numbers to me? >> >> They seem to be all over the pla

Re: RSTS/E version numbers

> On May 31, 2021, at 8:06 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk > wrote: > > Can someone explain RSTS/E version numbers to me? > > They seem to be all over the place: V2A-19, V4A-12, V4B-17, V5A-21, V5B-24, > V5C-01, V6A-02, V6B-02, V6C-03. > > Then it seems to h

RSTS/E version numbers

Can someone explain RSTS/E version numbers to me? They seem to be all over the place: V2A-19, V4A-12, V4B-17, V5A-21, V5B-24, V5C-01, V6A-02, V6B-02, V6C-03. Then it seems to have switched scheme but the "-number" suffix reappears: V7.0, V7.2, V8.0-06. Any clarification would

Re: [HECnet] RSTS/E patches

> -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Tony Nicholson via > cctalk > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 6:10 PM > To: hec...@update.uu.se > Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: [HECnet] RSTS/E patches > > On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 7:28 AM Paul Koning wro

RE: [HECnet] RSTS/E patches

...@update.uu.se Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: [HECnet] RSTS/E patches On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 7:28 AM Paul Koning wrote: > I previously created a Github repository for various DEC things, > including updated DECnet/E utilities. I thought that the RSTS patches > I had posted in the

Re: [HECnet] RSTS/E patches

d gets it > wrong because SIMH executes much faster. > > https://github.com/pkoning2/decstuff is the repository. > > paul > > Thanks for this Paul. There's also your NSP1.PAT patch to improve data flow using RSTS/E V10.1 under SIMH (posted to the SIMH mailing l

RSTS/E patches

I previously created a Github repository for various DEC things, including updated DECnet/E utilities. I thought that the RSTS patches I had posted in the past were there also, but that wasn't the case. I've added a "patches" subdirectory, which contains the patches I have collected. I just a

Re: RSTS/E has just had its 50th Birthday...

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 2:36 PM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > Err, I expect that that was RSTS-11 in June, 1970, not RSTS-E. Since RSTS-11 > > (which I learned to program on; happy memories :-) was a BASIC-PLUS only > > system, and ran on a PDP-11/20, I suspect it was

Re: RSTS/E has just had its 50th Birthday...

antique ('classic') computers; Paul and I are both members. I collect PDP-11's (I used them in school from '72 to '76, and worked with them from '77 to the mid-80's). Jay West, who maintains the list, forwarded your email query about RSTS/E to the list. (Paul you can find in the RSTS 80th birthday spoof, BTW.) Noel

Re: RSTS/E has just had its 50th Birthday...

they are complete enough to run, that would be an interesting experiment. FWIW, there's a RSTS/E V10.1 source master copy (including DECnet/E and build control files) among the Bitsavers materials. Has anyone ever posted any of the V6 or V7 sources?  I see the V8 and V10.1 sourc

Re: RSTS/E has just had its 50th Birthday...

em in school from '72 to '76, and worked with them from '77 to the mid-80's). Jay West, who maintains the list, forwarded your email query about RSTS/E to the list. (Paul you can find in the RSTS 80th birthday spoof, BTW.) Noel

Re: RSTS/E has just had its 50th Birthday...

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 5:08 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk > wrote: > >> From: Paul Koning > >> RSTS/E of course has a bunch of new stuff in it to deal with mapping, >> but the bulk of the code carries over from RSTS-11. > > I was assuming that the basic i

Re: RSTS/E has just had its 50th Birthday...

> From: Paul Koning > RSTS/E of course has a bunch of new stuff in it to deal with mapping, > but the bulk of the code carries over from RSTS-11. I was assuming that the basic intermal environment was sufficiently different that not a lot of the OS-level code could carry ov

Re: RSTS/E has just had its 50th Birthday...

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 3:36 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk > wrote: > > >> This means RSTS/E, the Greatest Operating System ever, has just turned 50 >> years old. > > Now, we all need to dig out the "RSTS 50th birthday" paper from eons ago.. You mea

Re: FW: RSTS/E has just had its 50th Birthday...

This means RSTS/E, the Greatest Operating System ever, has just turned 50 years old. Now, we all need to dig out the "RSTS 50th birthday" paper from eons ago..

Re: RSTS/E has just had its 50th Birthday...

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 2:24 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk > wrote: > >> From: Peter Dick > >> As I expect you know, RSTS was 'born' on 11th June 1970 as shown when >> you print DATE$(1%) ... >> This means RSTS/E, the Greatest Operating System ever

Re: RSTS/E has just had its 50th Birthday...

> From: Peter Dick > As I expect you know, RSTS was 'born' on 11th June 1970 as shown when > you print DATE$(1%) ... > This means RSTS/E, the Greatest Operating System ever, has just turned > 50 years old. Err, I expect that that was RSTS-11 in June

FW: RSTS/E has just had its 50th Birthday...

Please copy cctalk/cctech on any responses to Peter. J From: Peter Dick Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 4:34 PM To: jw...@classiccmp.org Subject: RSTS/E has just had its 50th Birthday... Hi. I stumbled on your wonderful PDP11.ORG website. As I expect you know, RSTS was “born” on 11th

Re: HDDs (Was: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 22:00, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > Yes. > I was thinking in terms of slightly older drives than that, particularly > 5.25" > Getting at the slider on newer drives wouldn't be practical. Probably not. I suspect that ITRO 90+ % of the people I work with have never seen a

HDDs (Was: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

One of the moxt common causes of a terrible ear-piercing high whine is the spindle contact. Many old drives had a springy piece that rubbed against the end of the spindle. Over time, it would wear a divot, polish that, and start to squeal. A very light pressure on it would test that hypothesis.

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On Mon, 18 Feb 2019 at 22:16, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > One of the moxt common causes of a terrible ear-piercing high whine is the > spindle contact. Many old drives had a springy piece that rubbed against > the end of the spindle. Over time, it would wear a divot, polish that, > and star

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> On Feb 18, 2019, at 4:47 PM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk > wrote: > > On 2/18/2019 3:38 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >> >> ... >> Then again, I remember our college RS64 (drive for the RC11) which developed >> a bad motor bearing. ... >> > > Nice of the FE to do that. > > The Univ. of

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On 2/18/2019 3:38 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > >> On Feb 18, 2019, at 4:16 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk >> wrote: >> >> On Mon, 18 Feb 2019, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: >>> Well that is the thing, of course. I had that with one old IDE disk, >>> too. It made a terrible ear-piercing high

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> On Feb 18, 2019, at 4:16 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Feb 2019, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: >> Well that is the thing, of course. I had that with one old IDE disk, >> too. It made a terrible ear-piercing high whine that I associate with >> a failing disk... but it pas

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On Mon, 18 Feb 2019, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: Well that is the thing, of course. I had that with one old IDE disk, too. It made a terrible ear-piercing high whine that I associate with a failing disk... but it passed every diagnostic I could throw at it, so I used it for non-critical stuff a

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On Sat, 16 Feb 2019 at 01:43, Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote: > Days turned into weeks, weeks into months and months into > years. It continued to occasionally make the same ghastly noises that > never should be heard coming from a hard disk but with absolutely no sign > of any errors being log

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

Liam Proven wrote: > > And some of my younger colleagues thought it was strange that I could > predict hard disk failures from the running noises they made, and > later than that, whether WinNT's bus-mastering DMA-mode disk > controller device driver was installed from the sound of the disk > acce

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > > Back in 2000-ish, I was upgrading my DG MV4000/dc to 8mb so as to be > able to run the snazzy AOS/VS II tapes I'd got along with the 9 track > drive I hacked onto the machine... > > The install would start and then bomb at a certain point every time. I > decided to w

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> From: Paul Koning > Studied it for a while, took out a small hammer, whacked the device at > some spot, and reported "fixed". That reminds me of an amusing story from the first time I went to see 'Star Wars; I went with a group of people from Tech Sq. It has that scene where they're

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On Fri, 15 Feb 2019 at 14:59, Paul Koning wrote: > > Speaking of sounds made by machines, there is a famous security paper from a > few years ago in which researchers read the encryption keys out of > smartphones by listening to the sounds made by the device while it was > execution the crypto

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> On Feb 15, 2019, at 6:06 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk > wrote: > > On Fri, 15 Feb 2019 at 04:34, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk > wrote: >> >> The install would start and then bomb at a certain point every time. I >> decided to work the machine hard and then pull the board and give a >> good

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

Fritz Mueller wrote: > > That's right -- I wasn't without an army, it was just a very small and > quite dedicated army! :-) > > I think I'd have gone down many blind alleys without help and perspective > provided by others here, and in particular a lot guidance provided by Noel > over the past co

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On Fri, 15 Feb 2019 at 04:34, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk wrote: > > The install would start and then bomb at a certain point every time. I > decided to work the machine hard and then pull the board and give a > good SNIFF. Got a nose for a hardware fault, eh? ;-) And some of my younger collea

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 15:03:41 -0500 > From: Paul Koning > To: Jay Jaeger , "General Discussion: On-Topic and >     Off-Topic Posts" > Subject: Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii &

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

guys come off with a win. I really enjoy reading this list even though I don't contribute all that often or anything of much value. It is a pleasure to watch you guys work. Jeff On Thu, 2019-02-14 at 12:00 -0600, cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org wrote: > Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

That's right -- I wasn't without an army, it was just a very small and quite dedicated army! :-) I think I'd have gone down many blind alleys without help and perspective provided by others here, and in particular a lot guidance provided by Noel over the past couple weeks in private corresponde

PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> From: Paul Koning > or a backup team of subsystem experts at the home office to call on. Actually, the actual hardware problem wasn't too hard for Fritz to find, I gather, once we knew exactly was failing (the RK11), and how (at 017, the XM incremented). It's not like it was a comes

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

Ethan Dicks wrote: > I have had an RK11-C for a long time that I've never tried to > power up (I got an RKV11-D and used that on Qbus machines > instead). Wow, someone else with an RKV11-D! I thought I was the only person who had one. I modified mine (using the dead bug technique) to add 18-b

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> From: Jerry Weiss > I am trying to understand how the diagnostics didn't reveal this defect. Vondada #12: "Diagnostics are highly efficient in finding solved problems." :-) Noel

PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

[oops, accidentally replied directly instead of to the list] On 2/13/19 12:54 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > It's interesting that it was a bad 7430 in [your RK11-C]. I find that for > equipment of that vintage, my usual suspects are failed 7474s and failed > 7440s, probably 80% of the total. Behind

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On 2/13/19 5:20 PM, Jerry Weiss wrote: I am trying to understand how the diagnostics didn't reveal this defect.  I see in the source for the diagnostic DZRKH-F there are tests for address in the 28K-32K range and also for the 32K boundary. So, to catch this defect the diagnostic would have to

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On 02/13/2019 10:40 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: He's also had to do a tremendous amount of work on it to get it running, starting with building an entire new power harness. Yes, the 5V power harness between the regulators and the backplane were a real mess on the 11/45 we got second hand.

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

both V6 Unix and RSTS/E V06C from disk. *THAT* was a really fun and rewarding hunt :-) First message in the thread was back on Dec 30, 2018. Lots of debugging and failed DRAM repairs, then the final long assault to this single, failed gate... Thanks to all here for the help and resources, and

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> On Feb 13, 2019, at 3:03 PM, Paul Koning wrote: > > ... > My suspicion is that things not solved by diagnostics would be escalated to > the "wizard from Maynard". And they'd probably start replacing whole > subsystems. This says that Fritz actually was a new "Wizard from Maynard" in sol

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> On Feb 13, 2019, at 3:54 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk > wrote: > > ... > It's interesting that it was a bad 7430 in yours. I find that for > equipment of that vintage, my usual suspects are failed 7474s and > failed 7440s, probably 80% of the total. Behind that, it goes 7420s > and then may

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

nd off she goes! > > I can now successfully boot and run both V6 Unix and RSTS/E V06C from disk. Nice. I have had an RK11-C for a long time that I've never tried to power up (I got an RKV11-D and used that on Qbus machines instead). The saga has been interesting for me as I contemplate g

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

"wizards". The "fix" was to replace the 11/20 by a "spare part" -- an 11/45 with more memory, a DH11, and RSTS/E. Decades later I was told that the wizards actually pinned the blame on the college FM broadcast transmitter, about 200 feet down the hall from the comp

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> > I can now successfully boot and run both V6 Unix and RSTS/E V06C from disk. > > *THAT* was a really fun and rewarding hunt :-) First message in the thread > was back on Dec 30, 2018. Lots of debugging and failed DRAM repairs, then > the final long assault to this single, failed ga

PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> From: Alan Frisbie > I am finding this entire discussion extremely fascinating! Every day I > look forward to reading the latest twists in the plot. I forgot to mention the most amazing part of the whole story: he first acquired the machine while he was a student (I think?) at CMU,

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On 02/13/2019 01:43 AM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote: SUCCESS!! Put the M795 out on an extender, loaded 16 in RKBAR, and had a look around with a logic probe. Narrowed it down to E34 (a 7430 8-input NAND). Pulled, socketed, replaced, and off she goes! WOW! Good detective work, that

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> From: Alan Frisbie > I am finding this entire discussion extremely fascinating! Every day I > look forward to reading the latest twists in the plot. :-) > The ideas, hunches, tests, dead ends, and results are an excellent > example of the debugging process. Yeah, and it wa

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

and off she goes! > > I can now successfully boot and run both V6 Unix and RSTS/E V06C from disk. Congratulations. You have successfully performed a repair of the type done at customer sites by highly trained DEC field service personnel. They were the ones who traveled with an oscil

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

SUCCESS!! Put the M795 out on an extender, loaded 16 in RKBAR, and had a look around with a logic probe. Narrowed it down to E34 (a 7430 8-input NAND). Pulled, socketed, replaced, and off she goes! I can now successfully boot and run both V6 Unix and RSTS/E V06C from disk. *THAT* was a

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> > > Likely some disk controllers did NOT SUPPORT crossing 64K boundaries! > > > > No; the RK11 spec says "[the two extended memory bits] make up a two-bit > > counter that increments each time the RKBA overflows". > > > > The actual error turns out to be slightly different to my guess; there'

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> From: Jerry Weiss > it is impressive that UNIX booted successfully without tripping over a > boundary. Well, V6 is (or can be configured to be) extraordinarily small, so I'm not surprised it booted OK without going over the 017 mark. I have this persistent memory that the -11/4

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On 2/11/19 12:31 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > From: Jerry Weiss > Though not a disk controller, the DEC DR11-B/DA11-B would not cross 64K > boundaries. Interesting! What's odd is that the DR11-B uses the Bus Interface card (M7219) from the RC11 controller, and that _can_

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> From: Jerry Weiss > Though not a disk controller, the DEC DR11-B/DA11-B would not cross 64K > boundaries. Interesting! What's odd is that the DR11-B uses the Bus Interface card (M7219) from the RC11 controller, and that _can_ cross moby boundaries, so clearly it has the right overfl

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> On Feb 11, 2019, at 1:13 PM, Jerry Weiss wrote: > > On 2/11/19 11:50 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >>> ... >> You may be thinking about PC controllers like the floppy controller. I >> can't remember ANY DEC DMA device controller that had boundary crossing >> limits of any kind. It ce

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On 2/11/19 11:50 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Feb 11, 2019, at 11:12 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 02/11/2019 07:04 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: A look at the RK11 registers after the swap-out showed an anomaly; something about the extended memory address bits? (Maybe a mul

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

Yup; specifically, the symptoms are consistent with 'D15 RKBA=ALL 1 L' being incorrectly generated at BA 16, causing an increment to EX.MEM, causing a skip in the DMA. So it looks like problem with bit 12 in that carry logic; I'll check E28 and E34 when I get back to it tonight, but I have

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 6:03 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > > > From: Jon Elson > > > Likely some disk controllers did NOT SUPPORT crossing 64K boundaries! > > No; the RK11 spec says "[the two extended memory bits] make up a two-bit > counter that increments each time the RKBA overflo

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> From: Jon Elson > Likely some disk controllers did NOT SUPPORT crossing 64K boundaries! No; the RK11 spec says "[the two extended memory bits] make up a two-bit counter that increments each time the RKBA overflows". The actual error turns out to be slightly different to my guess; there

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> On Feb 11, 2019, at 11:12 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk > wrote: > > On 02/11/2019 07:04 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: >> A look at the RK11 registers after the swap-out showed an anomaly; something >> about the extended memory address bits? (Maybe a multi-block transfer than >> crosses a 6

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 4:13 PM Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > > On 02/11/2019 07:04 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > > A look at the RK11 registers after the swap-out showed an anomaly; something > > about the extended memory address bits? (Maybe a multi-block transfer than > > crosses a 64KB

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On 02/11/2019 07:04 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: A look at the RK11 registers after the swap-out showed an anomaly; something about the extended memory address bits? (Maybe a multi-block transfer than crosses a 64KB boundary? That would explain the address sensitivity we were seeing.) Hopef

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> From: Fritz Mueller > If, as you are suspecting, we find damning evidence pointing > specifically to the RK11 I got an update from Fritz. As you all will recall, the problem seemed to be a corrupted 'pure text'. So the question was 'when was it damaged, and how'. After some confusi

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

>> This seems the best place to start with the LA this weekend then. > > I'm going to respectfully semi-disagree! I think that at this point there's a > good chance we can localize to within a gate or two before we start applying > test instruments. Oh, I agree completely, Noel. I should have

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> From: Fritz Mueller > This seems the best place to start with the LA this weekend then. I'm going to respectfully semi-disagree! I think that at this point there's a good chance we can localize to within a gate or two before we start applying test instuments. My thinking starts with tw

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

>>> How about a Unibus trace? >> >> I don't think my sad little HP LA has enough buffer for that... > > You could use triggers in innovative ways. Ah, quite right, gentlemen. This seems the best place to start with the LA this weekend then. --FritzM.

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On 2/7/2019 11:47 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > > The interesting point is that when V6 first copies the text in from the file > holding the command (using readi(), Lions 6221 for anyone who's masochistic > enough to try and actually follow this :-), it reads it in starting from the > bo

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

torsdag 7 februari 2019 skrev Fritz Mueller via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org>: > > > How about a Unibus trace? That would give you the RK11 commands as well > as the data it sends in response. > > I don't think my sad little HP LA has enough buffer for that... You could use triggers in innova

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> How about a Unibus trace? That would give you the RK11 commands as well as > the data it sends in response. I don't think my sad little HP LA has enough buffer for that... --FritzM.

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> On Feb 7, 2019, at 1:37 PM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk > wrote: > > >> On Feb 7, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk >> wrote: >> >> So, with UISA0 containing 01614, that gives us PA:161400 + 04200 = PA:165600, >> I think. And it wound up at PA:171600 - off by 04000 (higher) - which

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> On Feb 7, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk > wrote: > > So, with UISA0 containing 01614, that gives us PA:161400 + 04200 = PA:165600, > I think. And it wound up at PA:171600 - off by 04000 (higher) - which is > obviously an interesting number. Thanks, Noel. > ...it might be intere

PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> From: Fritz Mueller > is it possible for you deduce where Unix _should_ be placing these "bad" > bits (from file offset octal 4220)? Yes, it's quite simple: just add the virtual address in the code to the physical address of the bottom of the text segment (given in UISA0). The VA is

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On 02/06/2019 09:11 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > From: Jon Elson > I'm thinking it is bad memory. ... I think it is just a bad memory chip Nothing so simple, I'm afraid! The memory actually contains: PA:171600: 016162 004767 000224 000414 016700 016152 016702 016144 and i

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> Seems a little less-likely to be the problem, given(?) as well that you have > fairly consistent (is deterministic overstating it?) behaviour. Yeah. We've gotten to the point now where enough layered problems have been cleared away that the remaining behavior is quite deterministic. > If you

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On 2019-Feb-06, at 10:37 PM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote: >> 4116 datasheet specs 2mS, my calcs give a refresh period of 1.5mS, the >> 14.5uS from the manual would give 1.86 mS, 7% shy of 2. >> The schematic specs 1% resistors, and the parts list does appear to spec a >> high-tolerance "1%200

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> 4116 datasheet specs 2mS, my calcs give a refresh period of 1.5mS, the 14.5uS > from the manual would give 1.86 mS, 7% shy of 2. > The schematic specs 1% resistors, and the parts list does appear to spec a > high-tolerance "1%200PPM" cap. > > Although there are the internal voltage divider Rs

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

It looks like the question boils down to either "how did that part of the binary get to that part of memory?", or "how did we end up executing out of that part of memory?" More the former, I think... Noel, is it possible for you deduce where Unix _should_ be placing these "bad" bits (from

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> From: Fritz Mueller > It looks like the question boils down to either "how did that part of > the binary get to that part of memory?", or "how did we end up > executing out of that part of memory?" More the former, I think. UISA0 contains 001614, and physical memory at 0161400

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

> From: Jon Elson > I'm thinking it is bad memory. ... I think it is just a bad memory chip Nothing so simple, I'm afraid! The memory actually contains: PA:171600: 016162 004767 000224 000414 016700 016152 016702 016144 and it's _supposed_ to be holding: PA:171600: 110024 010400 00

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On 2/6/19 6:25 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: I'm thinking it is bad memory.  It seems unlikely bus problems could alter only ONE BIT per word, so I think it is just a bad memory chip, and finding multiple words where the 01 bit is now turned on sure looks like that kind of problem. So

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On 02/06/2019 05:39 PM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote: On Feb 6, 2019, at 2:24 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: Is the schematic available for the memory board at-issue? Curious myself to see what approach for refresh DEC used. Yes, here: http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/pdp11/

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On 02/06/2019 04:24 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: On 2019-Feb-06, at 1:21 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: From: Brent Hilpert what about the refresh circuitry of the memory board? ... It might also explain why a number of 4116s were (apparently) failing earlier in the efforts ... replac

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On 02/06/2019 12:53 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: If so, i) we're down to one problem (good news), and our problem turns into finding out how that section of the code got trashed (bad news). I'm thinking it is bad memory. It seems unlikely bus problems could alter only ONE BIT per word

Re: PDP-11/45 RSTS/E boot problem

On 2019-Feb-06, at 5:29 PM, Paul Koning wrote: >> On Feb 6, 2019, at 8:25 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk >> wrote: >> On 2019-Feb-06, at 5:11 PM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote: > On Feb 6, 2019, at 2:24 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk > wrote: > > Is the schematic available for the

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