Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

"So you agree that in spite of your comment that spending on social services has 'exploded' and caused the decrease in funding to colleges, that is actually not the case." The explosion happened before the recession. The programs are still in existence and still need money. "The data was from 2

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "There has been no rapid rise in funding for domestic discretionary programs > in recent years; " > > No shit.  We've been in a recession in "recent" years. So you agree that in spite of your comment that spending on social services has "e

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

"There has been no rapid rise in funding for domestic discretionary programs in recent years; " No shit. We've been in a recession in "recent" years. What about the 25-30 years before the recession? Then the budgets don't even count the little tricks like deferred spending and moving money fro

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 7:52 AM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "In every state budget I've worked with the last 20 years all of the items > you listed as increasing have been cut - Head Start Programs, welfare, etc." > > Really?  Medical care has been cut?  Public education has been cut (I > remember m

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

not in the way he means though... On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:09 AM, LRS Scout wrote: > > I would say that the explosion of incarceration caused by the immoral war > on drugs could be considered a "social" program. > On Jun 23, 2012 10:52 AM, "Jerry Barnes" wrote: > > > > > "In every state budg

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

Actually, no. The software is patented and expensive. It requires more server than many schools have. Bandwidth is a problem. At least, that is what distance education looks like in New Mexico. On the hand, work-study students and post-graduate assistants are a dime a dozen. It's actually cheaper

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

Not really. Well, let me amend that. If you have to build the stadium to attract the team then the government that does this is unlikely to get its money back out of the deal. The question then becomes whether in fact they get prestige and bragging rights and if so how much those are worth. The st

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

I would say that the explosion of incarceration caused by the immoral war on drugs could be considered a "social" program. On Jun 23, 2012 10:52 AM, "Jerry Barnes" wrote: > > "In every state budget I've worked with the last 20 years all of the items > you listed as increasing have been cut - Hea

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

"In every state budget I've worked with the last 20 years all of the items you listed as increasing have been cut - Head Start Programs, welfare, etc." Really? Medical care has been cut? Public education has been cut (I remember many states bitching about No Child Left Behind being an unfunded

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

In every state budget I've worked with the last 20 years all of the items you listed as increasing have been cut - Head Start Programs, welfare, etc. Prison systems fall under law enforcement or judicial and certainly cannot be considered a social program. The fact that true social programs such

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

"So what you are really saying is that states can't spent money on social programs like education because they are already spending money on social programs. Have it got it right this time?" States are not like the federal government. They cannot create money out of the air. They actually have

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 9:51 PM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > Wrong. I said that the percentage of money that states can spend on > college education has decreased because of an explosion of of social > programs. Please don't change my statements. > the amount of money you need to spend on educatio

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

You're right. I misread your statement. So what you are really saying is that states can't spent money on social programs like education because they are already spending money on social programs. Have it got it right this time? On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "You st

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

"You stated that the cost of education had risen because of an explosion of social programs, so don't spin my question by pointing at generalized stats." Wrong. I said that the percentage of money that states can spend on college education has decreased because of an explosion of of social progr

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

You stated that the cost of education had risen because of an explosion of social programs, so don't spin my question by pointing at generalized stats. On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 5:34 AM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > " Do you have any evidence of "spending on social programs has exploded"? " > > Really?

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

"Not impressed with College football players. Semi literate is a good description of many." Paint with broad brush there don't you? Elitist maybe? Racist? Like this guy: Myron Rolle More numbers. As of 2011, only 63% of all students graduate. This

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

"My own experience has been quite similar. The only program explosions I've seen has been Administration, (seriously does the university NEED 7 VP's making over $400,000 a year?)" That's what I am talking about. You hit the nail on the head. Way too much overhead. "and sports. Thing is a seri

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

"Do you have any evidence of 'spending on social programs has exploded'?" On a side note, this morning on the radio, I heard a report the State of NC is going to take money from a fund to maintain and repair buildings and use it to shore up the cost of healthcare due to a shortage of medicaid fu

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

" Yes, you obviously don't understand. Hence why you use words incorrectly, consistently. " Hey Judah, maybe you should read this New York Times article: " Slowly, as Student Debt Rises, Colleges Confront Costs" ( http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/15/business/colleges-begin-to-confront-higher-cos

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

" Yes, you obviously don't understand. Hence why you use words incorrectly, consistently. " So, the Universities do not have a model they follow. No wonder they don't have money. "Nope, went down in absolute dollars as well as inflation adjusted." I still don't buy it. I need to see the actu

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

" Do you have any evidence of "spending on social programs has exploded"? " Really? With the rising cost of education (social program), health care (social program), prison (social program), etc. and you have to ask that? Really surprising. Anyway, All of the evidence you can want can be foun

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 6:30 PM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "It should also be noted that those figures are not adjusted for inflation. > $969 in 1980 would be $2,564 in 2010. So that would be 190% increase in > inflation-adjusted dollars. Still big, obviously." > > Where'd you get your inflation nu

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:16 AM, GMoney wrote: > > That is a problem, IF the person is not actively working to educate > themselves.  I dont mind slow minded folks getting educational > opportunities because of their abilities, but like Larry said, that should > not give them a free ride to just

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:25 PM > To: cf-community > Subject: Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising > > > On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Eric Roberts < > ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: > > > > > I agree. The fact of the matter is that the purp

RE: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

To: cf-community Subject: Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Eric Roberts < ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: > > I agree. The fact of the matter is that the purpose of collleges and > universities is to educate people, not provid

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Eric Roberts < ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: > > I agree. The fact of the matter is that the purpose of collleges and > universities is to educate people, not provide entertainment via sports. > Maybe the NBA and NFL should fund sports programs if they

RE: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

Consulting ow...@threeravensconsulting.com http://www.threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-881-1515 -Original Message- From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:larrycly...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:11 AM To: cf-community Subject: Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising It

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > > The ones I had to deal with were not interested in an education. Their > classes were time wasters as far as they were concerned. So when I > failed one or two, I was called first into the dept chair's office > about the failure, then th

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

I mean REALLY REALLY not a sports fan. On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > It doesn't mean I like sports, I just do not like the scam that has > been played on higher education. Why should universities foot the bill > to train up NFL and NBA players. Let them do what hockey

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

The ones I had to deal with were not interested in an education. Their classes were time wasters as far as they were concerned. So when I failed one or two, I was called first into the dept chair's office about the failure, then the dean's. Both players would have lost their eligibility if the gra

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > > Not impressed with College football players. Semi literate is a good > description of many. > Would they be completely illiterate, without football? By that i mean, do sports open the door to an education that might no otherwise have b

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

It doesn't mean I like sports, I just do not like the scam that has been played on higher education. Why should universities foot the bill to train up NFL and NBA players. Let them do what hockey and baseball do, establish farm teams and leagues and train up the players that way. Why should my ed

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

Not impressed with College football players. Semi literate is a good description of many. On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Cameron Childress wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 10:56 AM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > >> and those who are simply >> not interested in semi literate bruisers smashing into

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Cameron Childress wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 10:56 AM, Larry C. Lyons >wrote: > > > and those who are simply > > not interested in semi literate bruisers smashing into each other. > > > Larry is not a sports fan. > Explaining sports to a non sports fan

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 10:56 AM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > and those who are simply > not interested in semi literate bruisers smashing into each other. Larry is not a sports fan. -Cameron ... ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion A

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

The stupid thing is that most Universities, except a very few, lose money on the facilities costs, the extravagant salaries, the marketing etc. Moreover they only manage to recoup some of it with such things as $500 Activities Fees that are added on and reach student is required to pay. Does it me

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > > I've met people with teh same attitude. Seriously why should > universities provide the farm teams for football and basketball. The > NBA and NFL should pay for that themselves, they are profitable > enough. And why should the public prov

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

I've met people with teh same attitude. Seriously why should universities provide the farm teams for football and basketball. The NBA and NFL should pay for that themselves, they are profitable enough. And why should the public provide corporate welfare by giving essentially free training to overl

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > > Those are the two areas I'd cut first myself. > Forget it. I love my sports, and you can't have them. People waste money on sports because they love it. Universities spend millions on sports instead of poetry books because people like s

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

My own experience has been quite similar. The only program explosions I've seen has been Administration, (seriously does the university NEED 7 VP's making over $400,000 a year?) and sports. Thing is a series of reports by the Chronicle of HIgher Education suggest that athletic programs are a serio

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:31 PM, Maureen wrote: > What I did see increase dramatically at the universities was spending > on Athletics. But you can hardly call that a social program. > No, i'd call that a cash cow...at least for the larger universities with established football programs. ~~

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "It is a state university. I'm starting to think you don't understand what > a state university is. It is a public institution. The employees are public > employees. Yes, the state is in charge. It has nothing to do with left or > right lea

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

Do you have any evidence of "spending on social programs has exploded"? While I hear that line repeated constantly, usually by those on the right, I've worked extensively with both university budgets and state budgets over the last 40 years, and I've never seen evidence of it. So if you have some

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

"It should also be noted that those figures are not adjusted for inflation. $969 in 1980 would be $2,564 in 2010. So that would be 190% increase in inflation-adjusted dollars. Still big, obviously." Where'd you get your inflation numbers? J - We stand today at a crossroads: One path leads to d

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

"It is a state university. I'm starting to think you don't understand what a state university is. It is a public institution. The employees are public employees. Yes, the state is in charge. It has nothing to do with left or right leaning anything. That's how public colleges and universities work.

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Judah McAuley wrote: > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Jerry Barnes wrote: >> >> "A bit of research shows that in-state resident, undergraduate tuition and >> fees for full time students in 1980-81 was $969. In 2009-10 it was $7,430." >> >> Wow, a 667% increas

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "A bit of research shows that in-state resident, undergraduate tuition and > fees for full time students in 1980-81 was $969. In 2009-10 it was $7,430." > > Wow, a 667% increase without factoring in room, board, fees, and books. It does f

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

This comedy act needs new material . On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Judah McAuley wrote: > they leave out one obvious, giant reason, > which I provided. > and not anything approaching an honest attempt to > have an educated discussion on the matter. ~~

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Cameron Childress wrote: > > I think there is no single reason, but rather a collection of reasons. Agreed. > Within Oregon, that reason can very reasonably be added to the list. Adding > it to the list does not invalidate all the other reasons on the list, > h

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "It wasn't meant to be a business. " > > Interesting.  So you are saying nonprofits shouldn't have a business model? No. I also didn't say that it is a nonprofit. State-run Universities (and land grant schools, etc) were not set up as non

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

"A bit of research shows that in-state resident, undergraduate tuition and fees for full time students in 1980-81 was $969. In 2009-10 it was $7,430." Wow, a 667% increase without factoring in room, board, fees, and books. Back to one of your original points. There is a potential fallacy in wh

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

"It wasn't meant to be a business. " Interesting. So you are saying nonprofits shouldn't have a business model? "Hence a public university with public support for the public mission of educating the state's students. You may not like that mission but that's what it was." I don't mind. It's a

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Judah McAuley wrote: > 30 years ago, for instance, the University of Oregon had roughly 50% > of their budget funded by the state. Today, that number is 8%. You > pit that against increasing personnel costs, inflation, capital > expenses, etc and you're guarante

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "30 years ago, for instance, the University of Oregon had roughly 50% of > their budget funded by the state." > > Sounds like a horrible business model. It wasn't meant to be a business. Hence a public university with public support for th

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

Here are the reasons from the article. The first is *third party payments*. When someone other than the consumer is paying, at least temporarily, some of the bills, the customer is not very sensitive to prices. Second is *lack of information*. For markets to work effectively, buyers and sellers

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

"30 years ago, for instance, the University of Oregon had roughly 50% of their budget funded by the state." Sounds like a horrible business model. Anyway, what was the tuition cost 30 years ago and what is it today? J - Ninety percent of politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

Exactly. That's been the common thread here - all ideologically pure arguments to justify limiting access, but all ignore that elephant in the room. University of Virginia is the same, the majority of the budget was paid by the state of Virginia. Now its less than 7% due to all the cut backs. Give

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

Any list that substantially mentions public universities (as this one does) but does not mention the plummeting contribution of public funding for said universities has a primary goal of blowing smoke up your ass. 30 years ago, for instance, the University of Oregon had roughly 50% of their budge

Re: The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

Quite ideological. Just look at his affiliations: Richard Vedder directs the Center for College Affordability and Productivity, teaches economics at Ohio University, and is adjunct scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. AEI is not exactly what you can call a neutral party. One thing I did

The 12 Reasons College Costs Keep Rising

Interesting post in the context of conversation around the rising costs of education. http://bit.ly/MKpxDd -Cameron ... ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/14302721