Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

On Jun 30, 5:15 pm, Chas Emerick wrote: > An oldie-but-goodie post from Chouser talking about what clojure-in- > clojure is and why it matters: > > http://blog.n01se.net/?p=41 To quote: "But a more fascinating benefit is that porting Clojure to non-JVM targets will be much easier. The majority of

Re: Clj on OSX

On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Glenn, Jacob wrote: > Thanks very much for your help. Where are you getting the .zip file you > describe? In the QuickStart, I click on the link in "Download http://incanter.org/downloads/clj.jar"; and what I get is clj.jar.zip (I'm using Chrome as my browser). It

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

That's a great first start. My only initial comment would be that Clojure is a lisp, or maybe a Lisp, but it's definitely not a LISP. ;-) - Chas On Jun 30, 2010, at 8:11 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: Ok, my turn to contribute something more than just messages. Still just talking, though. http://ww

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

Not one person has ever said *anything* about Clojure not interoperating smoothly with Java, or abandoning the JVM. Suggesting, implying, or speculating about anything otherwise, bluntly or not, is sort of laughable given how much work Rich has been putting into 1.2 (and later, with the eq

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

Ok, my turn to contribute something more than just messages. Still just talking, though. http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/papers/simple-clojure.html is a writeup on how to get as much out of clojure as possible with a minimal amount of Java infrastructure knowledge. It's still a WIP, so feedback, co

Re: Let's respect CLOJURE_HOME

On 30 June 2010 22:44, Steve Molitor wrote: >>> the true launcher will always be the java JVM executable, and I'm >>> not sure this is something we should really try and hide. > > I think it should be hidden, at least for newbies.  Maven hides it - I > invoke 'mvn' and have no idea how it invokes

Re: basic help with netbeans/enclojure installation

Fixed, thanks. - Chas On Jun 30, 2010, at 12:42 AM, Jared wrote: I don't think you wrote what you intended to write. "Enclojure is not yet compatible with NetBeans 6.8. You can access NetBeans 6.8 downloads here:" I think you mean: "Enclojure is not yet compatible with NetBeans 6.9. You can

Re: Let's respect CLOJURE_HOME

> However, I don't see it helping newcomers to Clojure significantly With respect, I'm a newcomer to Clojure, and the CLOJURE_HOME convention would help me significantly. :-) I think something that needs to be acknowledged is that "newcomers" and "n00bs" are not necessarily idiots, they're just

Re: Let's respect CLOJURE_HOME

On Jun 30, 6:45 pm, Greg wrote: > It seems like a lot of n00b (and non-n00b) related problems have to do with > the location of clojure.jar and clojure-contrib.jar. People generally don't > like having to keep track of all the clojure.jars, and it would be nice if it > was easy to switch versio

Re: Let's respect CLOJURE_HOME

>> the true launcher will always be the java JVM executable, and I'm >> not sure this is something we should really try and hide. I think it should be hidden, at least for newbies. Maven hides it - I invoke 'mvn' and have no idea how it invokes java. I don't know what jars it puts in the classpa

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

> Point is, I'd rather just use Clojure. Ah, well in that case, have you tried using Nailgun? http://martiansoftware.com/nailgun/index.html On Jun 30, 2010, at 3:34 PM, David Nolen wrote: > On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Greg wrote: >> For example, I would love to see some portion of Clojur

Re: Let's respect CLOJURE_HOME

JRuby uses JRUBY_HOME, which contains jruby.jar, a few other other essential jars and gems, and any locally installed gems. (Gems are ruby's packaging mechanism.) It also includes a jruby (jruby.bat on windows) executable script. This script parses command line args, sets up the classpath using J

Re: How to: an anonymous recursive function

Thanks for all the replies. Sorry if my responses are delayed. I'm still on newb moderation mode, so I find my response can take 2 - 10 hours to be published. > note that z is free in that expression, which looks suspicious. yup, it was supposed to be x. It was a copy paste error. I normally woul

Re: Let's respect CLOJURE_HOME

On 30 June 2010 21:14, Brian Schlining wrote: >> >> > >> > May I propose as a possible remedy CLOJURE_HOME. CLOJURE_HOME is the >> > absolute path of a directory containing clojure.jar and possibly >> > clojure-contrib.jar. Scripts should check if it's defined and use it >> > instead >> > of hard

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

won't someone please think of the children? On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Brian Goslinga wrote: > On Jun 30, 12:50 pm, David Nolen wrote: >> On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 1:42 PM, cageface wrote: >> > I don't know what the implementation plans are exactly for clojure-in- >> > clojure but abandonin

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

On Jun 30, 12:50 pm, David Nolen wrote: > On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 1:42 PM, cageface wrote: > > I don't know what the implementation plans are exactly for clojure-in- > > clojure but abandoning the JVM would be extremely unwise. > > Clojure-in-Clojure isn't about abandoning the JVM. It's about imp

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

>> > Thank you. I'm hearing a lot of "somebody should do $X" in this thread >> > and precious little "I'm going to help by doing $X". >> >> > The former is useless; please stop it. >> >> Or rather to be less harsh: the former has been discussed to death by >> this point and is no longer helpful. >

Re: Let's respect CLOJURE_HOME

My clj file looks like this: #!/bin/sh export CLASSPATH=$CLOJUREPATH:./lib/*:.:$CLASSPATH if [ -z "$1" ]; then exec java -server jline.ConsoleRunner clojure.main else SCRIPT=$(dirname $1) export CLASSPATH=$SCRIPT/*:$SCRIPT:$CLASSPATH exec java -server clojure.main "$1" "$@" fi H

Re: Compile multiple files in Emacs (interactive development)

Try making a file that uses or requires all your other files. Then just ctrl-c ctrl-k in that file. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are mod

Re: Let's respect CLOJURE_HOME

> > > > > > May I propose as a possible remedy CLOJURE_HOME. CLOJURE_HOME is the > absolute path of a directory containing clojure.jar and possibly > clojure-contrib.jar. Scripts should check if it's defined and use it instead > of hard-coded paths, as an example, here's my clj script (in newLISP):

Re: Let's respect CLOJURE_HOME

On 30 June 2010 18:45, Greg wrote: > It seems like a lot of n00b (and non-n00b) related problems have to do with > the location of clojure.jar and clojure-contrib.jar. People generally don't > like having to keep track of all the clojure.jars, and it would be nice if it > was easy to switch ver

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Greg wrote: > For example, I would love to see some portion of Clojure run on a platform > that has much faster boot times so I can use Clojure for one-off shell > scripts. > > > I've mentioned this before, but I can't help myself as I see lots of people > who wan

Re: Clj on OSX

Hey Glenn, I feel your pain. Here's how I've set things up on my Mac: Created ~/.clojure Inside there I have this: $ ls -l total 72 drwxr-xr-x 8 gslepak gslepak272 Jun 26 19:12 clj.git/ -rwxr-xr-x@ 1 gslepak gslepak 2201 Jun 30 02:05 clj.lsp* drwxr-xr-x 11 gslepak gslepak374 Ju

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

On 30 Giu, 18:35, Phil Hagelberg wrote: > On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 9:27 AM, Phil Hagelberg wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 12:24 AM, Alessio Stalla > > wrote: > >> That doesn't mean that a one- > >> click-install for a Lisp with an IDE and some popular libraries > >> preinstalled wouldn't be

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

> For example, I would love to see some portion of Clojure run on a platform > that has much faster boot times so I can use Clojure for one-off shell > scripts. I've mentioned this before, but I can't help myself as I see lots of people who want to use Clojure for scripting but complain about i

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

Well said Phil. I would like to volunteer to help. It just so happen that I have some time to help work on a solution. I am going to take a few days to do some research before starting. Any help that the clojure community can give me would gladly be apreciated Robert On Jun 30, 12:35 pm, Phil

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

> Javascript is a nice thought too. I haven't tried it but there is a library for generating javascript from clojure forms... http://github.com/arohner/scriptjure#readme -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send ema

Let's respect CLOJURE_HOME

It seems like a lot of n00b (and non-n00b) related problems have to do with the location of clojure.jar and clojure-contrib.jar. People generally don't like having to keep track of all the clojure.jars, and it would be nice if it was easy to switch versions for scripts like clj and such. May I

Re: Clj on OSX

> Thanks very much for your help. Where are you getting the .zip file you > describe? As far as I can tell the Github project only includes a link to > the .jar file. When I try to run that file by double-clicking it I get an > error dialog: "The Java JAR file 'clj-1.0.0-SNAPSHOT-standalone.jar' co

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 6:42 PM, cageface wrote: > > To put it more bluntly - the day that clojure no longer interoperates > smoothly with java is the day it becomes useless to me. I'm all for > hiding the guts from beginners but it's going to be a good long while > before you can actually get an

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 1:42 PM, cageface wrote: > I don't know what the implementation plans are exactly for clojure-in- > clojure but abandoning the JVM would be extremely unwise. Clojure-in-Clojure isn't about abandoning the JVM. It's about implementing more of Clojure in itself. This has se

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

On Jun 30, 10:17 am, Sean Allen wrote: > The larger the clojure community gets, the more you should be prepared > for those dogs then. To put it more bluntly - the day that clojure no longer interoperates smoothly with java is the day it becomes useless to me. I'm all for hiding the guts from beg

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 12:56 PM, cageface wrote: > On Jun 29, 10:50 pm, Sean Allen wrote: >> So those who left Java behind years ago but like Lisps in general and Clojure >> in particular and want to minimize their contact with Java, where do >> they fit in your view? >> Enemies of the proper us

Re: New Primitive data types (equal branch) - impact on optimized code.

OK, I'll try again. Thanks. jf On Jun 30, 6:14 pm, David Nolen wrote: > On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 10:19 AM, j-g-faustus > wrote: > > > > > > > Tried the equiv branch briefly: The "1.1 style" version is ~4% > > quicker, but still ~4x slower than Java and ~2x slower than mutable > > deftype. > > > B

Re: New Primitive data types (equal branch) - impact on optimized code.

$ java -version java version "1.6.0_20" Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_20-b02-279-10M3065) Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 16.3-b01-279, mixed mode) Running the bechmark with -client or -server flag makes just a couple of percent difference in timing. On Jun 30, 5:20 pm, Ni

Re: Clj on OSX

On 6/29/10 8:46 PM, "Sean Corfield" wrote: > I just installed that (on OS X 10.6.4) and I went this route: > > Download the ZIP file. Rename it to remove the .zip extension (leaving > the .jar extension). Double-click the .jar file. It fired up a > clj.main process (which didn't seem to go away?

Re: How to: an anonymous recursive function

If you name the Y combinator, then you can write recursive anonymous functions: You can't use Clojure's recur as written because it isn't in tail position--the result of the function isn't just the value of the recur expression (in the first inst

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

On Jun 29, 10:50 pm, Sean Allen wrote: > So those who left Java behind years ago but like Lisps in general and Clojure > in particular and want to minimize their contact with Java, where do > they fit in your view? > Enemies of the proper use of Clojure? Destroyers of the future? Dogs barking up

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 9:27 AM, Phil Hagelberg wrote: > On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 12:24 AM, Alessio Stalla > wrote: >> That doesn't mean that a one- >> click-install for a Lisp with an IDE and some popular libraries >> preinstalled wouldn't be useful - it would be great! But who is going >> to mai

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 12:24 AM, Alessio Stalla wrote: > That doesn't mean that a one- > click-install for a Lisp with an IDE and some popular libraries > preinstalled wouldn't be useful - it would be great! But who is going > to maintain it? If you pay me well enough, I'll do it, I promise :) >

Re: New Primitive data types (equal branch) - impact on optimized code.

On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 10:19 AM, j-g-faustus wrote: > Tried the equiv branch briefly: The "1.1 style" version is ~4% > quicker, but still ~4x slower than Java and ~2x slower than mutable > deftype. > > But I found another issue: Array access apparently converts primitives > to boxed values at eve

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 4:35 AM, Greg wrote: > > As far as I understand, Clojure will be able to interop with Java even when > Clojure-in-Clojure happens, so there's nothing to worry about. > > I'm quite excited about Clojure-in-Clojure. The possibilities that will > offer are awesome. I'm lookin

Re: New Primitive data types (equal branch) - impact on optimized code.

On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 3:19 PM, j-g-faustus wrote: > > The number of calls to Double.valueOf(double) seems to suggest that it > is called only on aset, not on aget, though I can't think of any > reason how that could be. > > Does anyone know more about this? Do you use the client or server Hots

Re: How to: an anonymous recursive function

On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 1:44 AM, Tim Robinson wrote: > So I am reading On Lisp + some blogs while learning Clojure (I know, > scary stuff :) > > Anyway, I've been playing around to see if I can get an anonymous > recursive function to work, but alas I am still a n00b and not even > sure what Cloju

Re: How to: an anonymous recursive function

user=> (fn plouf [] (plouf)) # user=> ((fn plouf [] (plouf))) java.lang.StackOverflowError (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0) (plouf/plaf is approximate french for foo/bar) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

On Jun 30, 2010, at 4:09 AM, Paul Moore wrote: Based on this comment, maybe I could ask an alternative question - can you suggest where I should go to read some tutorials which would give me a fast start on "just enough" Java infrastructure to get comfortable in Clojure? Most of the Java tutori

Re: How to: an anonymous recursive function

On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 22:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Tim Robinson wrote: > So I am reading On Lisp + some blogs while learning Clojure (I know, > scary stuff :) > > Anyway, I've been playing around to see if I can get an anonymous > recursive function to work, but alas I am still a n00b and not even > sure

Re: usage examples in clojure api docs

Mark Fredrickson wrote: Hello Tim, Knuth originally created an idea of literate programming where you embed source code into latex documents. He called such documents "web" documents (because nobody had yet used the word "web"). Thanks for passing along your code. I have some famili

Re: New Primitive data types (equal branch) - impact on optimized code.

Tried the equiv branch briefly: The "1.1 style" version is ~4% quicker, but still ~4x slower than Java and ~2x slower than mutable deftype. But I found another issue: Array access apparently converts primitives to boxed values at every access. This is perhaps because aget/aset is a function and pr

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

On 29 June 2010 23:31, Sean Corfield wrote: > FWIW, I blogged a short step-by-step post on getting up and running > with Leiningen to show some Clojure at the repl, run as a script and > compiled to a JAR and run via java: > > http://corfield.org/blog/post.cfm/getting-started-with-clojure > > Bear

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

On 30 June 2010 04:02, Jason Smith wrote: > So I'll say it again, it's just not that simple.  Unless you already > know Java, and the only learning curve you face is the new features in > Clojure.  Then it's not bad. But it does give you new ways to cut your > foot off more quickly. :-) An intere

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

On Jun 30, 5:19 am, Michael Richter wrote: > On 30 June 2010 11:15, cageface wrote: > > > On Jun 29, 6:25 pm, Michael Richter wrote: > > > Are you *trying* to evoke the "Smug Lisp Weenie" vibe, cageface, or is > > this > > > just a natural byproduct of being a burgeoning Smug Clojure Weenie? > >

Re: Documentation and examples (and where is the documentation on reduce)?

Mother's invention is a lazy necessity, I think. On Jun 29, 9:46 pm, Meikel Brandmeyer wrote: > Hi, > > Am 29.06.2010 um 19:11 schrieb michele: > > > Meikel, idiots are nice people too, so don't feel bad. But seriously, > > why do you think we work this hard to make the computer do all this > >

Re: reify bug?

Many thanks Adrian! (This is the OP, I sent an email from another account because I thought there were issues with this one). On Jun 29, 2010, at 9:39 AM, Adrian Cuthbertson wrote: > Sorry, you don't need the type hists just the "this" arg... > > (seq (.list (java.io.File. ".") (reify java.io.

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

> > Tying the fortunes of Clojure to Java was a brilliant move and one > that I've advocated for years but the trend I've seen lately to try to > paper over the Java underpinnings of the language worries me, as does > talk of making Clojure-in-Clojure. There's a small but viable market > for people

How to: an anonymous recursive function

So I am reading On Lisp + some blogs while learning Clojure (I know, scary stuff :) Anyway, I've been playing around to see if I can get an anonymous recursive function to work, but alas I am still a n00b and not even sure what Clojure's approach to this would be. How would I do this in Clojure?:

Re: basic help with netbeans/enclojure installation

I don't think you wrote what you intended to write. "Enclojure is not yet compatible with NetBeans 6.8. You can access NetBeans 6.8 downloads here:" I think you mean: "Enclojure is not yet compatible with NetBeans 6.9. You can access NetBeans 6.8 downloads here:" On Jun 17, 6:45 pm, Chas Emeri

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

> Tying the fortunes of Clojure to Java was a brilliant move and one > that I've advocated for years but the trend I've seen lately to try to > paper over the Java underpinnings of the language worries me, as does > talk of making Clojure-in-Clojure. There's a small but viable market > for people d

Re: usage examples in clojure api docs

Hello Tim, > Knuth originally created an idea of literate programming > where you embed source code into latex documents. He called > such documents "web" documents (because nobody had yet used > the word "web"). Thanks for passing along your code. I have some familiarity with noweb. I use Sweave

Re: newline and println on windows

On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 7:39 AM, David Powell wrote: > > I raised a ticket a while ago regarding newline and println on Windows. > > http://www.assembla.com/spaces/clojure/tickets/300-newline-should-output- > platform-specific-newline-sequence > > Currently these functions always output ASCII 10

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

On Jun 29, 8:17 pm, Michael Richter wrote: > A good salesman also doesn't come across as smugly self-satisfied and > projecting a sense of superiority. I did a moderate amount of CL hacking in 2003-4 and I've been dipping my toes back in lately with Clojure but I hardly count as a "lisp weenie".

newline and println on windows

I raised a ticket a while ago regarding newline and println on Windows. http://www.assembla.com/spaces/clojure/tickets/300-newline-should-output- platform-specific-newline-sequence Currently these functions always output ASCII 10 line feeds. I believe that they should output the platform defau

Re: Compile multiple files in Emacs (interactive development)

Hello It's better to use lein or maven to run swank server - this will compile all sources, and provide proper classpath, etc. In Maven you can specify script, that will be loaded automatically on swank start. For Lein, I don't know about such feature, although it's not so hard to implement Oleg

Compile multiple files in Emacs (interactive development)

Hello Guys! Does somebody knows better way to compile all files of my project in proper order in emacs after i've changed my working directory to project base and after command 'M-x slime'? I'm developing compojure application and now i have to reload all my project files (about 10) in emacs and

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

Hi, 2010/6/30 Michał Marczyk : > [...] > Then again, given that CCW has paredit built-in, I'm not going to > claim Emacs is likely to be much better. (I actually find it simpler, > but if the students in question have Java classes ahead of them / in > parallel, they'll likely need an IDE anyway, s

Re: Clojure's n00b attraction problem

Hi, On Jun 30, 3:25 am, Michael Richter wrote: > I swear, step by step Clojure is falling into the Common Lisp death spiral. >  As usual, too, it's the community at fault, not the creator. Please keep the church in the town. The Clojure community is one of the best and friendliest I had ever th