Thanks for the heads up! Need some advice though - if I may. Being a
clojure/lein newbie, I'm not sure how to tell Lein that I've just DLed the
latest, bleeding-edge version of clojure. And while I'm at it, to what
directory on my Win10 box should I have DLed 1.10.2-alpha1 to? Thanks in
adv
The emacs-cider combo chokes with an error to the effect that cider-nrepl
could not be loaded.
I'm on a Win10 box. Would someone point m to a possible solution please.
Thx.
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6.0
;; Clojure 1.10.0, Java 1.8.0_241
On Friday, 13 March 2020 12:58:52 UTC-6, Alex Miller wrote:
>
> It would probably help to include any error information for someone to
> learn more about the problem.
>
> On Friday, March 13, 2020 at 1:54:40 PM UTC-5, Duke wrote:
>>
>>
for a long time haskell did not have a debugger. that sucked, imho.
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i always thought it was basically solely for letting you re-run the
test that just/previously failed, nothing more weird or silly than
that.
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yes, a constant is weird. whenever i've implemented my own variant of
this, i always use a seed from the clock or whatever, and then spit
out the seed in test/assertion failure messages so people can paste it
back in to reproduce.
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> Be that as it may: if you work in a MS-centric company, shifting to JVM
> clojure is iffy at best. OTOH, convincing people who've never used anything
> except C# that there are alternatives worth considering is quite an uphill
> battle. At least one friend over the years has gotten fed up at my
>
> But only one task was active at a time, although Executors was configured
> with 4 threads. It occurred to me that map itself is lazy and it is realized
> in doseq one at a time. A possible fix is to use for instead of map to
> generate tasks
almost makes me wish there were types (er, sorry, me
> Thanks for all the responses, it looks like Linux is the predominant OS in
> the Clojure community.
er, wow. that's a bit of a leap, isn't it?
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an olide: http://www.starling-software.com/en/tsac.html. i went once
when in town years back. it was fun. wish it were still going on.
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No
if a programming language doesn't have something like 'where', then i
am sad. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4362328/haskell-where-vs-let
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> Notice that he intentionally left "inheritance" out from that definition.
there are more connotations of "object oriented" than there are quills
on a porcupine.
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> Sure. But since Alan Kay is the guy who invented the term "object oriented",
> I guess his definition should be, at least, considered.
> It seems that nowadays that only Java is properly "object oriented". This is
> far from true.
i suspect you read my note as trying to pick a side.
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> I remain wholly unconvinced that it's worth the hassle for a project this
> small.
personally i find your points persuasive; i hate going through that
stuff when i just wanted to finish a feature or whatever. still,
losing your code would suck a lot, and not having history can be a
frustrating t
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_programming
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> Code is data, and sometimes the best way to format that data for human
> readability is sufficiently ad-hoc that no autoindent/pprinter could do a
> fully general good job.
+1
there should therefore be a region annotation that tells IDEs to leave
it the hell alone when the user invokes "reinden
> Actually, I would just use Long's. (MAX_VALUE = 9223372036854775807)
https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube+gangnam+overflow
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> From what I understand it's conceptually not ready for anything other
> than toy problems yet. Like Elm's restriction on static flow graphs. It's
> like programming without 1st class functions, you don't get very far.
I am not an Elm user, but I am on the mailing list :-) and I see real
things
i guess "big projects" at the bottom of
http://elm-lang.org/Examples.elm
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> Another possibility is https://github.com/takeoutweight/clojure-scheme. It
> compiles Clojure to Gambit Scheme to C to metal.
another possibility is to stab oneself in the eye with a sharp stick.
just sayin'.
:-)
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I just would guess that anything other than an embedded JVM would
be... poor r.o.i., to be polite.
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all i'm trying to say is that the more layers of indirection you add,
the more i won't give you any money on kickstarter.
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> Both Nim and Pixie ultimately compile to C, and would have just as many
> layers of indirection.
aand they are all insane for anything other than learning
themselves at this point, i'd hazard to guess. but i'm a realist, who
knows. i'd rather go for a real jvm e.g. azul's embedded stuff, or
My goodness, there are other things than Clojure in the universe.
People have been making "native" software with "real" languages for
ages. There's probably even some that are fpish or heck go get an
actual lisp that's been used for ever (franz, allegro, ecl, gambit,
chicken, clozure, tinyscheme, e
re: lux -- keen! also, check out http://shenlanguage.org/, it has a
clojure target in the works.
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>> vulnerabilities that would not exist using an integrated framework.
fwiw, web + security always makes me think of http://liftweb.net/
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Not
> Can you elaborate? Lift got it right or was a disaster?
oh! good question, sorry :-)
i believe it got it far more right than wrong.
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> Yes, Play has overtaken Lift, not because it is necessarily better, but
> because TypeSafe are pouring marketing dollars into it, as part of their
> drive to encourage Enterprise uptake of Scala. They have a vested interest in
> Play being very successful as it will drive more business for the
hi,
What do people think of STM after all these years? What pros vs. cons
are there - has the community evolved the list of them?
thanks for any thoughts.
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Thanks for the thoughts!
If anybody also has any other STM experience (e.g. Haskell?) to
compare/contrast, that would be nifty to hear.
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> bazillion pure functions. I was wondering, would a GC like this one(or
> Azul's) make a significant impact so that I, or others, could make games in
> a more pure fashion? I WANT MY EFFIN PURITY!
i'd rather have linear types or something like that, than some gc
solution. :-) i mean, if i'm dre
> pure way or the mutate objects in place way? I can get great performance
> with clojure, no doubt about it, by violating the shat out of functional
> programming. I can not get great performance with the beautiful, pure,
> composable, clojure that I desire!
(personally i think this is a great
(related: asteroids in cal, by way of haskell.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/ns999/cal.html)
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cough cough erlang cough ahem
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>> cough cough erlang cough ahem
> Care to elaborate? :-)
"Now his point is that GC acts a super GIL which effectively kills all
the hard work done on the language and application design level."
erlang's approach to gc / sharing data / multi process / smp is i
think an interesting sweet spot. the
i am probably out of my depth here, i do not have extensive real-world
experience with the various ways to approach parallelism and
concurrency (to be distinguished of course), more run of the mill
stuff. so if i sound like i'm missing your point or am clueless i ask
for your patience :-)
> What's
> that closely match or can be massaged to match or 'have sympathy' for the
> hardware realities. I think this can get lost when we stray too far.
i wish this were somehow more modeled, composed, and controllable up
in our ides and source code, rather than being esoteric tweaky options
in the var
> unreachable. The "normal" GC would then have a lot less to do, helping
> achieve shorter pauses.
i have long wondered a similar wonder. :-) (i also naively day-dream
one could get the C# "IDisposing" style for free with something like
that.) the BitC folks have talked about all sorts of things a
> some sort of FSM. Perhaps concurrency could be modeled using FSMs, but I do
> not believe it is always a simple transition.
http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~stevez/papers/LZ06b.pdf
:-)
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> The thing is that our industry is based on layers upon layers of
> abstractions, whether at the physical level (integrated circuits,
> interfaces, etc.) or at the software level: binary (1GL) abstracted into
> assembly (2GL), then C language (3GL), etc. Virtual machines is now another
you maybe
> I like FSMs, but they do not compose well.
some have argued for generative grammars that generate the fsm,
because it is generally easier to compose grammars, and then generate
the final fsm. iiuc.
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> update them one at a time. Obviously, I do not want to write something that
> updates the enemies and, after the enemies are fully updated, the bullets
> get updated. I need something that updates enemies while updating the
> bullets, at the same time. Maybe a code example would help?
er... i
> I am just using this as a learning exercise, I do not need to be lectured
> about how to write a game loop... I said obviously since that was my
> original request, I am only asking to learn clojure a little better. I
> could just drop into java and write a serial loop that does this really fas
> This is code Clojure programmers depend on to work. Are you suggesting
> that it is easier to read this code than a few paragraphs of natural
> language?
>
> I must say I really find it puzzling that there is so much
> resistance to writing words. It's not that hard.
if the code is so bad that i
er, should the various pages be updated to say that they are all super
deprecated now?
e.g. things that turn up in google:
http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Clojure+Contrib+Libraries
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Sean Corfield wrote:
> Clojure Contrib libraries are all deprecated and very out
why does it require java 1.7? this newish mavericks macbook only has
1.6 so i would guess you've just made it hard for a lot of people to
try this out? :-(
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ugh, thanks. nice how i can just update it with app store. oh, wait??
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> I've been on Java 8 on my development Mac for ages. The only thing holding
> us back from going to Java 8 in production is New Relic don't yet support
> it...
>
> We upgraded our entire stack to Java 7 back in October and I thought we were
> late since Java 6 had been EOL'd for so long :)
i'm on
here are some related resources (books, videos). imbibe all of these
and it might help.
http://realmofracket.com/
http://landoflisp.com/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1023970
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> http://clojure.org/reducers
i dare say the "When to use" part should not be at the bottom but come
right after the otherwise laughably specious "yielding code that will
get faster automatically as machines get more cores".
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Observer is often used in Java & iOS-Objective-C & Android-Java.
As with any "eventing" kind of thing it is a very double-edged tool.
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even github gets it totally wrong, apparently?
https://github.com/laurentpetit/ccw/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=%22^%3Ainternal%22&type=Code
because, you know, it isn't as if github is mostly all about hosting *code*.
such that, you know, you'd think they'd have realized by now this kind
of feature i
knowing how to break down Clojure's syntax a bit helps, too. which
means newbies are kinda screwed until they divine this.
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8920137/clojure-caret-as-a-symbol
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Ditto F# vs. C#.
One has to wonder when / where / if functional-pure-immutable
approaches will ever under the covers get "fast enough"?
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> Once an engineer comes to grok FP, they tend to organize code around how
> data 'flows' between these pure functions to produce output data. The
> structure of how functions connect to form the structure of a functional
> computation has typically been informal. Until now
see Flow Based Prog
> I.e. your time is better spent optimizing a fn that's called 1k times per
> second and it's a little slow (for example, missing a type hint and has to
> do reflection or using boxed math) vs. a fn that's very slow but is only
> called once a minute.
not all apps, and not all developers, end up w
at least, it often feels like that is the practical reality cf.
clojure vs. java; f# vs. c#; haskell vs. c -- oh, wait a minute:
http://www.cs.ru.nl/P.Achten/IFL2013/symposium_proceedings_IFL2013/ifl2013_submission_20.pdf
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http://lmgtfy.com/?q=clojure+%22let+vs.+let*%22
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To
> 350ms sounds fast enough for a low-frequency user interaction. In fact, once
> login is fast enough not to annoy your users, you don't *want* any more
> speed from it, as further speedup then only benefits blackhats trying to
> brute-force one of your users' accounts. So, it might be a feature, n
> That would apply to common actions like typing and entering. Login being
> slower than that isn't likely to be as much of a bother as you likely only
> do it infrequently, maybe as much as once a day if you're paranoid and clear
> cookies nightly.
Yeah, to me that is the sort of reasoning that l
My apologies (sincerely). Won't use that again.
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> and I need to be 10 times more productive. =)
you mean, after your 2 week ramp-up time, right?
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> Inspired by YAGNI, I made this code analyzer and emacs assistant for
> deleting dead code (and then used it to delete 10% of our codebase):
oh, i thought the punch line was it was either going to delete you, or
delete itself ;-)
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> Thanks for the rapid response! You could say that you put this in there as
> an exercise for the viewer; I know that in discussing it amongst ourselves,
> we definitely sharpened our understanding of some of the concepts.
I guess I'd see it as an argument for static checking around
concurrency,
blah.
"Whenever you notice this pattern, you can probably turn to one of the
threading macros instead."
that would fly in the face of being more declarative; when we start to
put in explicit ordering, instead of leaving it as just relationships,
that can be bad. of course it can also be good. eve
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=amit+clojure+book
http://www.htdp.org/
http://realmofracket.com/about.html
http://landoflisp.com
http://book.realworldhaskell.org/
http://www.powells.com/biblio/9781617290657
etc.
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> The way I like to think about FP vs OO is that OO usually couples state with
> identity and the code that operates on both, while FP defines a clear
> boundary between data, state, and the functions that operate on the data.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expression_problem
> Designing a FP prog
> https://tbaldridge.pivotshare.com/media/oop-lesson-1/28290
> I do not remember if the other tutorials (2,3 and 4) on OOP are free as
> well…
i did this one a while back as a refresher on my university stuff :-)
https://www.coursera.org/course/progfun
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heck if you pay me U$D120 an hour, you can send me your code (as long
as it isn't more than a single page at 10 pt font, with regular
formatting ;-) and i'll tell ya how to do it more FPish
(kidding.)
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> https://www.coursera.org/course/proglang
cool. thanks for the pointer, i will have to find the time.
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The thought that came to my mind when reading it was something like,
"Hasn't anybody heard of MVCC?"
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flush twice, oracle is far far away?
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hi,
ignorant question from me:
F#/dotnet has 'mbrace' which lets you, apparently, *super* easily
spawn things off to a cluster (cloud based). Instead of doing async {
/*worker code*/ }; you do cloud { /*worker code*/ }; and all the
management of getting it sent to the cloud, run, and back is
auto
Wow, thank you for sharing the info! Cool.
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re: mixins, traits, etc. those terms have all been used in both
research & shipped languages. Please see e.g. how Scala evolved with
those terms. :)
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http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/search/node/crdt
nice to see powerful theory being made more practically available to
us masses. ;-)
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> Quite a difference I have to say.
well, you can still be happy that "first, get it right. then, make it
fast" is still easier in clojure than in java! (of course if, like me,
you are a static typing bigot, there's more to be said on that :-)
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hooray! right on! testify, brother!!!
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potential food for thought for you:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/ns999/asteroids.html
http://prog21.dadgum.com/23.html
http://world.cs.brown.edu/
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Awesome would be a way for Cojure to generate C (perhaps with e.g.
Boehm–Demers–Weiser GC to get it kicked off) and JNI bindings all
automagically.
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one word: redstone.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnZipJOan54
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You can only tell by benchmarking. And even then it can change when
you move to different hardware. You can debate about big O and
constant factors and numa and all that jazz till you are blue in the
face.
There are 3 kinds of people in the world:
1) those who think we should stick with arrays bec
things like robovm are another possible approach.
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T
> The main motivation would be performance gains.
blah? so many impedance mismatches and layers of indirection that i
don't think it will gain much? i mean, it would probably be better to
spend time tuning gc parameters or something. just a rant / guess.
e.g. robovm is for some use cases perfectly
RC & GC might complement. Don't throw out RC. Also, there are different
kinds of 'performance'. Horses for courses, you know.
https://www.google.com/search?q=bacon+gc+reference+counting+equation
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Horses for courses. Ask all the game people who use Lua big time. :-)
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> Sorry, never heard of horses for courses. Does it mean sth like different
> strokes for different folks?
yessir.
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(Did he mention Wadler? Probably. http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2538)
I have it from friends who have used TR "in anger" that it is not really a
win. My own experience with other things, e.g. the typed stuff in the lands
of JavaScript and TypedLua, is in line with that, unfortunately.
http:/
y'know, if only there were something, i dunno, something static that
could you know have some, i dunno, 'types' that would help annotate
things such that at maybe compile time, we'd know if the things we're
handling are lazy or boxed or whatever-else or not.
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On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 2:59 PM, Nicola Mometto wrote:
> Static types wouln't have helped at all in this case. Types are about
> correctness, not performances. This comment was needless
Here I thought maybe knowing when something was or was not something
could have been useful in, you know, maki
On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Nicola Mometto wrote:
> Fair enough, but in this case types wouldn't really have helped: the author
> did use `Double` type hints, mistakenly assuming that would make its code use
> primitive types, which it does not since `Double` is boxed and not primitive.
> C
My $0.02 is only resort to macros when all else has failed. Can just higher
order functions and composition and injection get you closer to what you
want?
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Unfortunately, dynamically typed most often means what you are experiencing, as
far as I know. Python, JavaScript, Scheme, Lua, etc. all have something like
NPE that can happen at any random time, it feels like, no?
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Whatever happened to Defrac, anyway?
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we need the TRIZ of software :-/
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I am writing to ignorantly sincerely ask how spec + Orchestra compares to
other statically typed out of the box JVM languages. What are the succint
wins over not Scala shudder but eg Kotlin Ceylon, heck Frege, et. al.?
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random tangential food for thought:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/elm-discuss/Discussion$20on$20saying$20farewell$20to$20FRP$20|sort:relevance/elm-discuss/6U74_aNXC04/UY8dIIh-CQAJ
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€0.02 i like option #3, i think it would be possibly nice for edges to be
named based on the ports they connect.
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what happened after they, "walked into a bar"?
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