Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

A few thoughts about Specter from someone new to it but who's already found it incredibly useful. I'm happy to be corrected on any points that I've misunderstood. Clojure functions follow something like the Unix "do one thing and do it well" ideal. There are exceptions, but a lot of what's

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

I rarely program in Clojure. At work I have to deal with a lot of deeply nested data structures. Specter helps me to navigate those nested data pretty easily. The navigators does looks unlispy for the newcomer. But if you bother to learn it , you don't have to invent your own. Above all, the

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

On Mar 4, 2017 12:35 AM, "Asim Jalis" wrote: What might be a Clojurey syntax for doing path navigation? In other words how could get-in be extended so that it could parse nested vectors like it parses nested maps? Thinking out aloud, an integer in the path when the data

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

Moe: Good point. The specific use case I had was that I wanted to be able to extract all the values that were on a path—in other words the ability to use a wildcard in get-in. For example, this returns "X1". I would like to use get-in to return ["X1" "X2"]. In other words use a wildcard for :b1.

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

The "language" Specter introduces "specific"ally navigates the "domain" of Clojure data structures. Regexes also provide a DSL that navigate or operate over the string/text domain and that's often considered a large, generic, unstructured domain. What matters is the semantic surface area the

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

On Mar 5, 2017 2:10 PM, "Gregg Reynolds" wrote: see the section titled "deftype and defrecord?" at https://clojure.org/ reference/datatypes Specter traffics in abstractions, afaik, just like clojure. it does not depend in any way on application concepts like "bank account",

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

see the section titled "deftype and defrecord?" at https://clojure.org/reference/datatypes Specter traffics in abstractions, afaik, just like clojure. it does not depend in any way on application concepts like "bank account", so i think it's a little unfair to call it x-specific for any x; that

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

Okay, let's call it a Context Specific Vocabulary (CSV) ;) Every function is at least a mini DSL, IMO. And as promising as Spec sounds, I still haven't trained up on it because of the size of the new vocabulary (or DSL or whatever you want to call it) it introduces. Adding semantics is expensive

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

On Mar 5, 2017 1:04 PM, "Timothy Baldridge" wrote: >> Specter is not a DSL. Specter implements a set of terms (navigators) specific to the library that are interpreted by the library (the transform function) to accomplish some task for a specific domain (manipulating data

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

>> Specter is not a DSL. Specter implements a set of terms (navigators) specific to the library that are interpreted by the library (the transform function) to accomplish some task for a specific domain (manipulating data structures). In the same way, `update-in` is a DSL. Both Specter and

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

To answer a few comments/misconceptions on this thread: - Specter is not a DSL. Things like ALL and MAP-VALS are first class objects that implement the underlying navigator interface. Specter's core is a high-performance method of composing implementations of that interface. It makes zero

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

2017-03-05 0:25 GMT+01:00 Didier : > I'm not too sure what the contribs are. Are they simply packages maintained > by the Clojure team itself, or are they actually part of the standard > library? As I understand it, they aren't any more sanctioned than any third-party library,

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

This got me thinking, what is Clojure? As I see it, Clojure is a combination of syntax and semantics combined with a standard library of functions and macros. Given the Clojure syntax, and the Clojure special forms, and Clojure core, I have myself Clojure. Given that, we should be careful when

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

Gregg, agreed. But as an aside, as an external library, like core.async, Specter is a shining example of why Clojure (and lisp) is such an awesome platform. The fact that Nathan was able to even implement this functionality, in some places even more performant than core idioms, imho proves that

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

On Mar 4, 2017 5:08 PM, "John Newman" wrote: Gregg, agreed. But as an aside, as an external library, like core.async, Specter is a shining example of why Clojure (and lisp) is such an awesome platform. +1001. to be clear, i am _not_ saying specter is anthing less than

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

On Mar 4, 2017 3:52 PM, "Gregg Reynolds" wrote: On Mar 3, 2017 6:27 PM, "John Newman" wrote: I think the path navigator DSL feels slightly un-Clojurey. But other than that, I think Specter is pure magic and Nathan is right that editing deeply nested

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

On Mar 3, 2017 6:27 PM, "John Newman" wrote: I think the path navigator DSL feels slightly un-Clojurey. But other than that, I think Specter is pure magic and Nathan is right that editing deeply nested data structures in Clojure is a point of deficiency, especially for people

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 6:35 AM, Asim Jalis wrote: > What might be a Clojurey syntax for doing path navigation? In other words > how could get-in be extended so that it could parse nested vectors like it > parses nested maps? Thinking out aloud, an integer in the path when

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

The first time I watched Nathan talk about Specter, I had the exact same thoughts -- "My data structures aren't that complex, I can't relate to these examples, I don't need Specter, I'm fine with Clojure's get-in, update-in, assoc-in." But then, I challenged myself for one day to use Specter's

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

My thoughts on this were spurred by this tweet from Nikita Prokopov https://twitter.com/nikitonsky/status/837049980053516310 I generally don't have the need to alter stuff deep down in data structures, but when I do, I don't mind writing the functions to do so. The two things that worries me

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

What might be a Clojurey syntax for doing path navigation? In other words how could get-in be extended so that it could parse nested vectors like it parses nested maps? Thinking out aloud, an integer in the path when the data structure at that level is a vector should treat the integer as an

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

I've never used Specter, but my needs are modest compared to some Clojure programmers'. (Great introductory blog post, Nathan, btw.) Intuitively, it feels to me like Specter is too big of a monster to be in core. I am not surprised that that's not going to be an option. The idea of making

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

I think the path navigator DSL feels slightly un-Clojurey. But other than that, I think Specter is pure magic and Nathan is right that editing deeply nested data structures in Clojure is a point of deficiency, especially for people coming from mutable languages/data structures. To that extent, I

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 3:41:36 PM UTC-6, Nathan Marz wrote: > > Alex – care to elaborate? When I get this question it would be nice to be > able to tell people why the core team isn't interested. > The default answer to all such questions is no. Clojure has a small library and Rich

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

One must recognize Clojure as an art project. It follows, that the choice of curated libraries is an aspect of the artistic expression. Look at them -- what else could it be? clojure.xml was unorthodox. clojure.zip is anti-gravity. clojure.core.logic is inside-out. clojure.core.typed is

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

Alex – care to elaborate? When I get this question it would be nice to be able to tell people why the core team isn't interested. Beau – new navigators can easily be provided in external libraries. The core of Specter (navigator composition and inline compilation/caching) is very stable at

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

> The main thing that makes me hesitate to suggest this is getting bottlenecked on Clojure's dev process. Imo this is a big deal. I like the way specter has the ability to add new generally useful navigators and paths with new versions as people "discover" them, I don't think that's a great

Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

I don't think Rich would be interested in including Specter in core. Making it a contrib doesn't really seem like it would have many advantages to me over its current status. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group,

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

I like Specter and would love to have it readily available in any project, so that aspect is appealing. However, there are a handful of subtle ways that Specter doesn't feel like it was designed by the same people who wrote core. For example, Clojure's built-in transformation functions on data

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

How about making specter into a contrib library?​ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post.

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

While I've looked at Specter several times, I have yet to use it in a project for many of the same reasons that Rangel mentioned. Either my data is shallow enough that clojure.core functions work just fine, or my data is complex enough that I need cross-entity joins, and arbitrary clojure logic.

Re: Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

Nathan - Specter has been an indispensable part of any Clojure/ClojureScript that I've started in the recent 1+ years. From my experience with it so far (and I'm definitely not using it to its full potential) it has had one killer feature and that is modifying a nested 3+ levels deep data

Contribute Specter to Clojure core?

One of the most common questions I get about Specter is whether it will ever become part of Clojure core. I think it's an interesting proposal and would like to see what the community and core team thinks. The primary reason for contributing would be that Specter makes Clojure a stronger