Re: [computer-go] MoGo policy: capture stones anywhere?

2009-09-01 Thread Peter Drake
On Aug 31, 2009, at 10:12 PM, terry mcintyre wrote: If you maintain a list of strings ( connected groups ) of stones and their liberty counts - or perhaps the actual liberties - it should be fairly quick to find a string with just one liberty. I'm currently using pseudoliberties, so that

RE: [computer-go] MoGo policy: capture stones anywhere?

2009-09-01 Thread David Fotland
...@computer-go.org] On Behalf Of Peter Drake Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 7:51 AM To: computer-go Subject: Re: [computer-go] MoGo policy: capture stones anywhere? On Aug 31, 2009, at 10:12 PM, terry mcintyre wrote: If you maintain a list of strings ( connected groups ) of stones

RE: [computer-go] MoGo policy: capture stones anywhere?

2009-09-01 Thread David Fotland
But note that Fuego is using a GNU license, so if you incorporate any of the Fuego code into your own app, you will have to make your own app available under the GNU license and distribute source to your customers. David I strongly recommend reading the Fuego source code. Their ideas and

Re: [computer-go] MoGo policy: capture stones anywhere?

2009-09-01 Thread Peter Drake
On Sep 1, 2009, at 8:11 AM, David Fotland wrote: I don’t think any of the strong programs use pseudoliberties. Interesting! Can those involved with other strong programs verify this? My board code is descended from my Java re-implementation of libEGO. I tried writing one using real

Re: [computer-go] MoGo policy: capture stones anywhere?

2009-09-01 Thread Magnus Persson
I never tried pseudoliberties in Valkyria. It actually stores arrays of the liberties in addition to the count. This make programming complex algorithms simple, but perhaps not the most efficient way. -Magnus Quoting Peter Drake dr...@lclark.edu: On Sep 1, 2009, at 8:11 AM, David Fotland

Re: [computer-go] MoGo policy: capture stones anywhere?

2009-09-01 Thread Mark Boon
2009/9/1 Peter Drake dr...@lclark.edu: On Sep 1, 2009, at 8:11 AM, David Fotland wrote: I don’t think any of the strong programs use pseudoliberties. Interesting! Can those involved with other strong programs verify this? My board code is descended from my Java re-implementation of libEGO. I

Re: [computer-go] MoGo policy: capture stones anywhere?

2009-08-31 Thread terry mcintyre
If you maintain a list of strings ( connected groups ) of stones and their liberty counts - or perhaps the actual liberties - it should be fairly quick to find a string with just one liberty. In any case, if I read the explanation correctly, this happens infrequently, if several less-expensive

RE: [computer-go] MoGo policy: capture stones anywhere?

2009-08-31 Thread David Fotland
I maintain a list of strings with exactly one liberty. If I disable the code to track one liberty groups and generate capture moves the speed goes up from 17.7 K playouts/s to 18.1K playouts/s, so it's a small difference, probably not statistically significant. David -Original Message-

Re: [computer-go] MoGo - ManyFaces

2009-08-15 Thread Stefan Kaitschick
13 games were played and the total score was 8-5 for CzechBot. I wonder how would they play if on even grounds. The general game pattern was the usual wild middlegame wrestling typical of MC, with CzechBot usually getting large edge initially (70% winning probability and seemingly unshakeable

Re: [computer-go] MoGo - ManyFaces

2009-08-15 Thread Petr Baudis
Hi! Today there was a short discussion about the strongest bot currently online on KGS and I got curious whether ManyFaces or CzechBot (bleeding edge MoGo) is stronger, so I made it play against ManyFaces. CzechBot is running as dual-thread pondering MoGo on slightly loaded dual-core

Re: [computer-go] MoGo and passing

2009-06-30 Thread Olivier Teytaud
On http://www.lri.fr/~gelly/MoGo_Download.htmhttp://www.lri.fr/%7Egelly/MoGo_Download.htm, under the FAQ section, I found the bullet point: MoGo continues playing after the game is over?: MoGo never consider a pass unless you pass first. If you think the game is over, simply pass. Is

Re: [computer-go] MoGo and passing

2009-06-30 Thread Sylvain Gelly
Hi, Olivier answered for the new version. On the downloadable version, I don't remember exactly (almost 2 years back now...), but I think Mogo will still pass if all the other moves are clearly loosing. So it should understand somehow Seki situations. If that is correct, the sentence is not

Re: [computer-go] MoGo and passing

2009-06-30 Thread Sylvain Gelly
Obviously I should read better the emails before answering. Olivier rightly answered for all versions. Sorry, Sylvain On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Sylvain Gellysylvain.ge...@m4x.org wrote: Hi, Olivier answered for the new version. On the downloadable version, I don't remember exactly

Re: [computer-go] Mogo on supercomputer

2009-05-11 Thread Olivier Teytaud
When Mogo runs on the supercomputer with long-ish time limits, how big does the search tree get? Plotting the depth/number of nodes as a function of the thinking time might be a good idea... No idea :-( I just remember that changing the number of visits before adding a new node in the tree

RE: [computer-go] Mogo MCTS is not UCT ? (GENERALIZED_AMAF)

2008-12-02 Thread Denis fidaali
] To: computer-go@computer-go.org Subject: Re: [computer-go] Mogo MCTS is not UCT ? I think it's now well known that Mogo doesn't use UCT. I realize that i have no idea at all what Mogo do use for it's MCTS. A complicated formula mixing (i) patterns (ii) rules (iii) rave values (iv) online

Re: [computer-go] Mogo MCTS is not UCT ? (GENERALIZED_AMAF)

2008-12-02 Thread Mark Boon
regard, Denis FIDAALI. Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 21:55:03 +0100 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: computer-go@computer-go.org Subject: Re: [computer-go] Mogo MCTS is not UCT ? I think it's now well known that Mogo doesn't use UCT. I realize that i have no idea at all what Mogo do use for it's MCTS

Re: [computer-go] Mogo MCTS is not UCT ?

2008-12-01 Thread Jason House
On Dec 1, 2008, at 3:38 AM, Denis fidaali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's now well known that Mogo doesn't use UCT. I realize that i have no idea at all what Mogo do use for it's MCTS. There are only two things i dislike about UCT : - It's slow to compute. - It's deterministic I

RE: [computer-go] Mogo MCTS is not UCT ?

2008-12-01 Thread Denis fidaali
Let's assume that the UCT formula is UCTValue(parent, n) = winrate + sqrt((ln(parent.visits))/(5*n.nodevisits)) (taken from sensei library) What is the Upper confidence bound term ? That would'nt be sqrt((ln(parent.visits))/(5*n.nodevisits)) ?? I doubt that exploring only the move with

Re: [computer-go] Mogo MCTS is not UCT ?

2008-12-01 Thread Olivier Teytaud
I think it's now well known that Mogo doesn't use UCT. I realize that i have no idea at all what Mogo do use for it's MCTS. A complicated formula mixing (i) patterns (ii) rules (iii) rave values (iv) online statistics Also we have a little learning (i.e. late parts of simulations are evolved

Re: [computer-go] Mogo MCTS is not UCT ?

2008-12-01 Thread Mark Boon
On 1-dec-08, at 18:55, Olivier Teytaud wrote: I think it's now well known that Mogo doesn't use UCT. I realize that i have no idea at all what Mogo do use for it's MCTS. A complicated formula mixing (i) patterns (ii) rules (iii) rave values (iv) online statistics Isn't that technically

Re: [computer-go] Mogo Opening, Building Strategy ?

2008-11-30 Thread Olivier Teytaud
Is there any theoretical reasons for the Mogo Opening being built out of self play, rather than by spending time increasing the number of simulations at the root, and after a time, keeping what seems to be the best ? There are practical reasons: our approach can be used with humans or

RE: [computer-go] Mogo Opening, Building Strategy ?

2008-11-30 Thread Denis fidaali
to know about it ? Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 10:10:14 +0100 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: computer-go@computer-go.org Subject: Re: [computer-go] Mogo Opening, Building Strategy ? Is there any theoretical reasons for the Mogo Opening being built out of self play, rather than by spending time increasing

Re: [computer-go] Mogo Opening, Building Strategy ?

2008-11-30 Thread Olivier Teytaud
By conjecture, i suppose you mean that no experiments yet has been ran as to assess this hypothesis ? Yes. The other reasons were sufficient :-) I think Sylvain (and maybe just everyone else) has tried at some point to use a UCT decision bot, as a way to get the simulation done. Then

Re: [computer-go] Mogo Opening, Building Strategy ?

2008-11-30 Thread Don Dailey
On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 13:38 +0100, Olivier Teytaud wrote: But, it is also clearly established that the building of the opening book by self-play clearly works, whereas it is roughly the same idea. I guess the reason is the difference of strength of the player - a MCTS (Monte-Carlo Tree

Re: [computer-go] Mogo Opening, Building Strategy ?

2008-11-30 Thread terry mcintyre
From: Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've always had this idea that the best way to build an opening book is the best way to build a general playing engine. You are trying to solve the same exact problem - what is the best move in this position? When building an opening book, you have the

Re: [computer-go] Mogo Opening, Building Strategy ?

2008-11-30 Thread Don Dailey
It's true that building an opening book in an automated way can be done off-line which gives us more resources. That's really the basis for this thought that we are trying to solve the same problem. As a thought experiment, imagine some day in the future, when computers are 1 thousand times

Re: [computer-go] Mogo Opening, Building Strategy ?

2008-11-30 Thread terry mcintyre
- Original Message From: Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] MCTS really feels to me like a superb book building algorithm. Computer Chess books (at least the automated part) are built essentially by taking millions of games from master play and picking out the ones that seem to work

Re: [computer-go] Mogo Opening, Building Strategy ?

2008-11-30 Thread Don Dailey
On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 14:33 -0800, terry mcintyre wrote: - Original Message From: Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] MCTS really feels to me like a superb book building algorithm. Computer Chess books (at least the automated part) are built essentially by taking millions of games

Re: [computer-go] Mogo Opening, Building Strategy ?

2008-11-30 Thread Michael Williams
You can read about some such novelties found using Rybka here: http://www.rybkachess.com/index.php?auswahl=Rybka+3+book Don Dailey wrote: On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 14:33 -0800, terry mcintyre wrote: - Original Message From: Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] MCTS really feels to me like a

Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch (Jason House's paper)

2008-09-27 Thread Jason House
Sent from my iPhone On Sep 24, 2008, at 5:16 PM, Jason House [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 24, 2008, at 2:40 PM, Jacques Basaldúa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wr ote: Therefore, the variance of the normal that best approximates the distribution of both RAVE and wins/(wins + losses) is the

Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch (Jason House's paper)

2008-09-27 Thread Álvaro Begué
On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Jason House [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sent from my iPhone On Sep 24, 2008, at 5:16 PM, Jason House [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 24, 2008, at 2:40 PM, Jacques Basaldúa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Therefore, the variance of the normal that best approximates

Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch (Jason House's paper)

2008-09-27 Thread Jason House
Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2008, at 10:14 AM, Álvaro Begué [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Jason House [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sent from my iPhone On Sep 24, 2008, at 5:16 PM, Jason House [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 24, 2008, at 2:40 PM, Jacques

Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch

2008-09-25 Thread Jason House
PROTECTED] [mailto:computer-go- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason House Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:34 AM To: computer-go Subject: Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 18:08 -0300, Douglas Drumond wrote: Attached is a quick write up of what I was talking about

RE: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch

2008-09-24 Thread David Fotland
, 2008 4:34 AM To: computer-go Subject: Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 18:08 -0300, Douglas Drumond wrote: Attached is a quick write up of what I was talking about with some math. PS: Any tips on cleanup and making it a mini publication would

Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch

2008-09-23 Thread David Doshay
On 22, Sep 2008, at 10:50 PM, Hideki Kato wrote: David Doshay: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It was 800, just like last time, but the networking had been upgraded from ethernet to infiniband. Olivier said that this should have been a good improvement because he felt that communication overhead was

Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch

2008-09-23 Thread Hideki Kato
David, I've found a description that Infiniband was improved from 2 x 4X IB (20 Gbps) to 8 x 8X IB (160 Gbps) on Jun 2008 at the bottom of 6th page of a pdf about Huygens system: https://www.os3.nl/_media/2007-2008/courses/inr/week7/sne_20080320_walter.pdf I guess that is the better hardware

Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch

2008-09-23 Thread Jason House
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Łukasz Lew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 17:58, Jason House [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 22, 2008, at 7:59 AM, Magnus Persson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The results of the math are most easilly expressed in terms of inverse

Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch

2008-09-23 Thread Douglas Drumond
Attached is a quick write up of what I was talking about with some math. PS: Any tips on cleanup and making it a mini publication would be appreciated. I've never published a paper before. Would this be too small? Better add an abstract, but what I missed most was bibliography. []'s

Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch

2008-09-23 Thread Darren Cook
It was 800, just like last time, but the networking had been upgraded from ethernet to infiniband. Olivier said that this should have been a good improvement because he felt that communication overhead was significant. I thought Olivier had previously said there was very little overhead.

Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch

2008-09-22 Thread Magnus Persson
Quoting Mark Boon [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Playing out that fake ladder in the first game meant an instant loss. Surprising. And embarassing. Any information on the number of processors used? The interesting question is if there is a silly bug or something more sophisticated. I have struggled

Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch

2008-09-22 Thread Don Dailey
I'm curious about a couple of things in particular. Is this a bug and how much time would be required for Mogo to have played the correct move if it wasn't. Of course I'm also interested in ways to solve this with less deep searches or better play-outs. - Don On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 13:59

Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch

2008-09-22 Thread terry mcintyre
Consider this as tentative, since I heard it about 3rd-hand, but I believe the number of processors used to have been 3000. Congratulations to the Mogo team; good luck improving your program to deal with the ladder and life-and-death issues. Looking forward to further information! I have

Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch

2008-09-22 Thread Don Dailey
I think AMAF is a feature not a bug. It's only a matter of how judiciously it's applied. Also, almost any evaluation feature in a game playing program is a bug - meaning it is an imperfect approximation of what you really want. Of course it could turn out that AMAF got them in trouble in

RE: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch

2008-09-22 Thread David Fotland
). A general solution is a little tricky. David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:computer-go- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Dailey Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 6:23 AM To: computer-go Subject: Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch I think AMAF is a feature

Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch

2008-09-22 Thread Jason House
On Sep 22, 2008, at 7:59 AM, Magnus Persson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the case of the ladders the heavy playouts of Valkyria correctly prunes playing out ladders for the loser. But sometimes in the playouts the ladder is broken and after that there is a chance that the stones escape

Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch

2008-09-22 Thread David Doshay
It was 800, just like last time, but the networking had been upgraded from ethernet to infiniband. Olivier said that this should have been a good improvement because he felt that communication overhead was significant. Cheers, David On 22, Sep 2008, at 6:06 AM, terry mcintyre wrote:

Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch

2008-09-22 Thread Hideki Kato
David Doshay: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It was 800, just like last time, but the networking had been upgraded from ethernet to infiniband. Olivier said that this should have been a good improvement because he felt that communication overhead was significant. Really previous Huygens used Ethernet?

Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch

2008-09-21 Thread mingwu
Anyone knows the result, or better the game sgf? On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 6:57 AM, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great news! Look forward to seeing it happen. I hope Mogo has some great hardware. - Don On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 15:54 -0700, David Doshay wrote: MoGo and Myungwan Kim

Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch

2008-09-21 Thread dhillismail
2008 9:22 pm Subject: Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch Anyone knows the result, or better the game sgf? On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 6:57 AM, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great news! ? Look forward to seeing it happen. ?I hope Mogo has some great hardware. - Don On Fri, 2008

Re: [computer-go] MoGo v.s. Kim rematch

2008-09-05 Thread Don Dailey
Great news! Look forward to seeing it happen. I hope Mogo has some great hardware. - Don On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 15:54 -0700, David Doshay wrote: MoGo and Myungwan Kim will hold an exhibition rematch at the Cotsen Open on Saturday September 20. The exhibition will start at about 5pm

Re: [computer-go] MoGo beats pro: The website

2008-08-13 Thread Jason House
If this is aimed at clearing up ambiguity, you should state which way the handicap was given. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 13, 2008, at 2:08 PM, Chaslot G (MICC) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear all, There were details that were unclear about the victory of MoGo. Hence I created a website to

Re: [computer-go] MoGo beats pro: The website

2008-08-13 Thread terry mcintyre
From: Jason House [EMAIL PROTECTED] If this is aimed at clearing up ambiguity, you should state which way the handicap was given. Oops! Now I need to clean off my keyboard! rotflmao! Mmmm, we already have a hotly-contested estimate that computer programs will play pros on an even basis in

Re: [computer-go] mogo beats pro!

2008-08-11 Thread terry mcintyre
From: Bob Hearn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now, my question. Sorry if this has already been beaten to death here. After the match, one of the MoGo programmers mentioned that doubling the computation led to a 63% win rate against the baseline version, and that so far this scaling seemed to continue as

Re: [computer-go] mogo beats pro!

2008-08-10 Thread Bob Hearn
David Doshay wrote: As an aside, the pro in question won the US Open, so comments about him being a weak pro seem inappropriate. I spoke with him a number of times, and I firmly believe that he took the match as seriously as any other public exhibition of his skill that involves handicap

Re: [computer-go] mogo beats pro!

2008-08-10 Thread Don Dailey
On Sun, 2008-08-10 at 11:37 -0700, Bob Hearn wrote: Now, my question. Sorry if this has already been beaten to death here. After the match, one of the MoGo programmers mentioned that doubling the computation led to a 63% win rate against the baseline version, and that so far this scaling

Re: [computer-go] mogo beats pro!

2008-08-10 Thread steve uurtamo
your calculation is for mogo to beat kim, according to kim and the mogo team's estimates. i think that a better thing to measure would be for a computer program to be able to regularly beat amateurs of any rank without handicap. i.e. to effectively be at the pro level. for one thing, this is

Re: [computer-go] mogo beats pro!

2008-08-09 Thread jonas . kahn
Congratulations to Mogo team! Twenty years from now, in ``a computer go history'' August 7th 2008: First victory of computer against pro with 9 handicap. By the way, the surge in strength with the 800 processors with respect to the quadcore (old) MogoBot, seemed relatively low, when comparing to

Re: [computer-go] mogo beats pro!

2008-08-09 Thread terry mcintyre
- Original Message I still have this theory that when the level of the program is in the high-dan reaches, it can take proper advantage of an opening book. Alas, it may be a few years before enough processoring power is routinely available to test this hypothesis. I know that we

Re: [computer-go] mogo beats pro!

2008-08-09 Thread Vincent Diepeveen
Congrats to the MoGo team for getting system time at SARA for a match. The architecture of the power5/power6 system (2007 july a power5 system was installed and that has been updated to power6 now), is based upon having sufficient RAM and high bandwidth to i/o (for each Gflop a specific

Re: [computer-go] mogo beats pro!

2008-08-09 Thread Ian Osgood
On Aug 9, 2008, at 4:16 AM, terry mcintyre wrote: - Original Message I still have this theory that when the level of the program is in the high-dan reaches, it can take proper advantage of an opening book. Alas, it may be a few years before enough processoring power is

Re: [computer-go] mogo beats pro!

2008-08-08 Thread David Doshay
Chris may be right with his implication that I talk too much these days, but just to keep things honest, the quote below is not exactly what I said. I said that others were wondering how much time it will be before the programs are beating the pros. My thought was that programs have

Re: [computer-go] mogo beats pro!

2008-08-08 Thread steve uurtamo
I still have this theory that when the level of the program is in the high-dan reaches, it can take proper advantage of an opening book. Alas, it may be a few years before enough processoring power is routinely available to test this hypothesis. I know that we duffers can always ruin a

Re: [computer-go] mogo beats pro!

2008-08-08 Thread Mark Boon
First of all, congratulations to the MoGo team. As some have remarked already, the difference in level between the fast games and the slow games was considerable. I didn't think the level of the fast games was anything to boast about. And my opinion is more informed than many other

RE: [computer-go] mogo beats pro!

2008-08-08 Thread Jeffrey Greenberg
Wow! I've been radio silent for a long time now working on other things some years now, but watching the successes of the new approaches. What incredible validation them... Fantastic! Jeffrey Greenberg www.jeffrey-greenberg.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [computer-go] mogo beats pro!

2008-08-08 Thread Mark Boon
Thanks for posting the game Eric. When I look back at it it's obvious to me S1 was much better. After the likely sequence of R1, T3, T2, T4, S7, Q1, R7 Black still has a serious weakness at N4. I also still question W's play in the upper-right. I doubt W S15 was a good move and think S19

Re: [computer-go] mogo beats pro!

2008-08-08 Thread David Doshay
On 8, Aug 2008, at 7:29 AM, Eric Boesch wrote: On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 8:04 AM, Mark Boon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First of all, congratulations to the MoGo team. Ditto! Absolutely an amazing achievement! Where I do differ in opinion from most is the remarks from the pro. He played

Re: [computer-go] mogo beats pro!

2008-08-07 Thread terry mcintyre
I enjoyed watching this game. Having trouble with KGS at the moment, or I'd send a game record. Having more time makes a very marked improvement in the quality of play, to a degree which surprised me. The first two games, at 10 and something between 10 and 15 minutes ( Mogo thought it only had

Re: [computer-go] mogo beats pro!

2008-08-07 Thread terry mcintyre
] - Original Message From: Darren Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2008 9:24:00 PM Subject: Re: [computer-go] mogo beats pro! Great news. Well done to the Mogo team. John, if I can just find 3000 CPUs lying around I might actually

Re: [computer-go] mogo beats pro!

2008-08-07 Thread terry mcintyre
To answer one other question: we were told that Mogo scales linearly. The supercomputer has a very high-bandwidth interconnect. The Mogo team was unable to release more architectural details at this time. To reiterate on another question, from what the team said, no book, no joseki, just raw

Re: [computer-go] mogo beats pro!

2008-08-07 Thread Rémi Coulom
Well done, Mogo team ! terry mcintyre wrote: moves,” like those in the lower right-hand corner, where Moyogo took Typo :-) Rémi ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

Re: [computer-go] mogo beats pro!

2008-08-07 Thread Darren Cook
... no book, no joseki,...Mogo generated joseki from whole cloth. ... seemed to me that, as Mogo was given more time, its opening and middlegame play was markedly better. If it is basically reinventing opening theory from scratch each time then that makes sense. (Though I suppose there is

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-04-20 Thread James Guo
on 19x19 board, any thought on getting computer to win all the games with handicap 9(may be started at 13), then improve to handicap 8,7...? Olivier Teytaud wrote: Has the program become that much stronger on 9x9 recently? (Compared to the version was trying?) *Parallelization: MPI == ~80%

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/Taranu challenge in Paris

2008-03-26 Thread Olivier Teytaud
I have put a report of the weekend's challenge games between MoGo and Catalin Taranu 5p at http://www.computer-go.info/tc/ mainly to make it easier for people to find the game records. Thanks a lot for that. Some points are wrong however, below some informations about the errors. The

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/Taranu challenge in Paris

2008-03-26 Thread Olivier Teytaud
The hardware in case of trouble, which has been used for two games, is provided by Université Paris-Sud. Precisely: LRI, Université Paris-Sud.___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-22 Thread Olivier Teytaud
It was 2 cores 2.6GHz. (intel core2 duo). sorry, I believed it was the tipi. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-21 Thread Olivier Teytaud
For information on the mogo/pro challenge: - during preliminary tests, mogo has won 4/0 against a very high level human; at that time we were just very very very happy :-) - some other humans, supposed to be weaker, have however won some games at that time (before the nakade correction); -

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-21 Thread Robert Jasiek
How well does the nakade improvement perform on 13x13? -- robert jasiek ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-21 Thread Olivier Teytaud
How well does the nakade improvement perform on 13x13? no idea on 13x13, but it does not work on 19x19 (seemingly, perhaps we just need tuning...). Also, it works only, in terms of success rate against the old mogo, for sufficiently large number of simulations per move. Olivier

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-21 Thread Hiroshi Yamashita
This event sounds very interesting! Saturday: 3/23/08 3:00 PM Saturday: 3/22/08 3:00 PM is right? Regards, Hiroshi Yamashita ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-21 Thread Olivier Teytaud
Saturday: 3/23/08 3:00 PM Saturday: 3/22/08 3:00 PM is right? Hi; it's saturday 22. Olivier (stress++) ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-21 Thread Hiroshi Yamashita
Hi; it's saturday 22. Thanks! Regards, Hiroshi Yamashita ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-21 Thread Petr Baudis
Hi, On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 10:14:49AM +, Nick Wedd wrote: Saturday: 3/23/08 3:00 PM Game I (9x9) Game II 9x9 Game III 9x9 Played with 1.5 hours from the start of one round to the next will this be with komi 7.5? Petr Pasky Baudis

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-21 Thread Olivier Teytaud
will this be with komi 7.5? Yes. Previous records against Guo Juan, as far as I know: - 1/3 wins with komi 7.5 - 9/14 wins with komi 0.5 (mogo black, i.e. komi in favor of mogo) Best regards, Olivier ___ computer-go mailing list

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-21 Thread Robert Jasiek
Olivier Teytaud wrote: Previous records against Guo Juan, as far as I know: - 1/3 wins with komi 7.5 - 9/14 wins with komi 0.5 (mogo black, i.e. komi in favor of mogo) Has the program become that much stronger on 9x9 recently? (Compared to the version was trying?) -- robert

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-21 Thread Don Dailey
The million dollar question: How well does Mogo scale on this number of processors?Can you give us at least some kind of generalization? My understanding is that on quad core machines you get most of the benefit by simply running parallel versions of the algorithm and sharing the data

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-21 Thread Petr Baudis
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 05:07:01PM +0100, Olivier Teytaud wrote: will this be with komi 7.5? Yes. Previous records against Guo Juan, as far as I know: - 1/3 wins with komi 7.5 - 9/14 wins with komi 0.5 (mogo black, i.e. komi in favor of mogo) What computing power did have

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-21 Thread Olivier Teytaud
What computing power did have that MoGo at its disposal? 4 cores, 2.4 GHz. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-21 Thread Petr Baudis
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 08:35:25PM +0100, Olivier Teytaud wrote: What computing power did have that MoGo at its disposal? 4 cores, 2.4 GHz. Thank you! That also puts the strength of CzechBot into some perspective. :-) Petr Pasky Baudis

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-21 Thread Olivier Teytaud
Has the program become that much stronger on 9x9 recently? (Compared to the version was trying?) *Parallelization: MPI == ~80% vs no mpi in 9x9 (for same number of cores). *Monte-Carlo improvement == strongly depends on number of simulations and number of cores (as the multi-core reduces

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-21 Thread Don Dailey
Would you guess that mogo is 2 or 3 ranks stronger at 19x19 with all this hardware? I would love to see a fair match, perhaps a serious 2 or 3 dan player at 19x19 to be able to say with some certainty that Mogo has reached the dan levels. This assumes Mogo has reached this level of

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-21 Thread Olivier Teytaud
The million dollar question: How well does Mogo scale on this number of processors?Can you give us at least some kind of generalization? unfortunately, using more than 10 nodes is probably not very very useful in 9x9, for the moment - but we have not tested that sufficiently, and we have

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-21 Thread Olivier Teytaud
Would you guess that mogo is 2 or 3 ranks stronger at 19x19 with all this hardware? I just claim that mpi-mogo wins with very high probability against sequential-mogo in 19x19. But I'm afraid that the improvement is disappointing against humans. I hope better improvements are possible

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-21 Thread Don Dailey
Olivier Teytaud wrote: Would you guess that mogo is 2 or 3 ranks stronger at 19x19 with all this hardware? I just claim that mpi-mogo wins with very high probability against sequential-mogo in 19x19. But I'm afraid that the improvement is disappointing against humans. Hopefully it is still

Re: [computer-go] MoGo/professional challenge

2008-03-21 Thread Sylvain Gelly
It was 2 cores 2.6GHz. (intel core2 duo). 2008/3/21, Olivier Teytaud [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What computing power did have that MoGo at its disposal? 4 cores, 2.4 GHz. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org

Re: [computer-go] MoGo 64 bits, mogo double

2008-02-10 Thread Sylvain Gelly
Hi all, I added those downloads on the MoGo's download page: http://www.lri.fr/~gelly/MoGo_Download.htm Cheers, Sylvain 2008/2/9, Olivier Teytaud [EMAIL PROTECTED]: For people requesting mogoRelease3 without the bug for long computation times due to a float instead of a double:

Re: [computer-go] MoGo 64 bits, mogo double

2008-02-10 Thread Don Dailey
Thanks Olivier, I will take care that the source code is not distributed to anyone else. - Don Olivier Teytaud wrote: For people requesting mogoRelease3 without the bug for long computation times due to a float instead of a double: http://www.lri.fr/~teytaud/mogo (32 bits version, with

Re: [computer-go] MoGo 64 bits, mogo double

2008-02-09 Thread Janzert
Olivier Teytaud wrote: For people requesting mogoRelease3 without the bug for long computation times due to a float instead of a double: http://www.lri.fr/~teytaud/mogo (32 bits version, with double instead of float) http://www.lri.fr/~teytaud/mogo64 (64 bits version, double

Re: [computer-go] MoGo pondering

2007-11-05 Thread Olivier Teytaud
Could Sylvain (or anyone who knows) talk about MoGo's pondering strategy? Does it just build the tree as usual or does it speculate on some number of moves and hope that the opponent choses one of those? MoGo just builds the tree as usual. Olivier

Re: [computer-go] MoGo

2007-10-25 Thread Chris Fant
Free, Closed, It prefers Linux. On 10/25/07, Joshua Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is MoGo a commercial or free program? Open or closed source? Linux version available? Thanks in advance :) -Josh ___ computer-go mailing list

Re: [computer-go] MoGo

2007-10-25 Thread Jason House
Free but closed source. There is a linux version, see http://www.lri.fr/~gelly/MoGo_Download.htm On 10/25/07, Joshua Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is MoGo a commercial or free program? Open or closed source? Linux version available? Thanks in advance :) -Josh

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