Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-03-23 Thread David Golden
If you don't know what I'm referring to, read http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/03/23/npm_left_pad_chaos/ Leaving aside the IP issue, I think it might be worth considering what would currently happen if someone chose a 'mass removal' and whether that's what we'd like to have happen. N.B. this is

Re: Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-03-23 Thread Sawyer X
Well thought-out. I agree. (I'd add more but really, there's no need. :) On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 4:07 PM, David Golden wrote: > If you don't know what I'm referring to, read > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/03/23/npm_left_pad_chaos/ > > Leaving aside the IP issue, I think it might be worth con

Re: Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-03-23 Thread Stefan Seifert
On Wednesday 23 March 2016 11:07:34 David Golden wrote: > * I think we have to allow mass deletion, even if that de-indexes stuff. I > think that's an author's right. I've never gotten that argument. The code in question is usually under a very permissive license. Publishing code under such a l

Re: Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-03-23 Thread Sawyer X
Related to this perhaps was the Ion3 debacle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_%28window_manager%29#Controversy Long story short: Ion3 developer did not want a certain feature. Debian added a patch for it. He got mad, pulled Ion3 out. Same with ArchLinux, NetBSD, and FreeBSD. On Wed, Mar 23,

Re: Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-03-23 Thread David Golden
On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Stefan Seifert wrote: > > * I think we have to allow mass deletion, even if that de-indexes > stuff. I > > think that's an author's right. > > I've never gotten that argument. Let's try a narrower argument: Should an author be allowed to delete *any* distribut

Re: Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-03-23 Thread Todd Rinaldo
> On Mar 23, 2016, at 11:20 AM, David Golden wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Stefan Seifert > wrote: > > * I think we have to allow mass deletion, even if that de-indexes stuff. I > > think that's an author's right. > > I've never gotten that argument.

Re: Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-03-23 Thread Karen Etheridge
Should an author be able to delete a currently-indexed distribution on the CPAN? Yes, without reservation or exception. Open source is free, and that freedom includes removing my consent for my name to be attached to a publication at any time. However, we (the CPAN community) can do a lot of thing

Re: Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-03-23 Thread David Golden
On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 1:39 PM, Karen Etheridge wrote: > I would suggest an email alert go out to the modules@ list (or another > list, should this prove too noisy) providing notification that an indexed > module is being deleted and de-indexed. Excellent suggestion! I think modules@ is the r

Re: Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-03-23 Thread Karen Etheridge
Done: https://github.com/andk/pause/issues/204 On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 10:57 AM, David Golden wrote: > On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 1:39 PM, Karen Etheridge wrote: > >> I would suggest an email alert go out to the modules@ list (or another >> list, should this prove too noisy) providing notification

Re: Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-03-24 Thread Aristotle Pagaltzis
* Stefan Seifert [2016-03-23 16:30]: > Now if the original author decides to no longer publish her code, > that's absolutely fine. I just don't get why CPAN should follow suite > and do the same. We don't demand this of BackPAN and we don't demand > the same from other users who trusted the licens

Re: Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-03-24 Thread David Golden
On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Neil Bowers wrote: > > It would be nice to have a feed of all dists scheduled for deletion, as > soon as they’re > I really only want email for *indexed* distributions, not for deletion of old or trial dists. (Could you imagine the traffic on CPAN cleanup day?)

Re: Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-03-24 Thread Neil Bowers
> However, we (the CPAN community) can do a lot of things after that to > mitigate any damage. I wholeheartedly agree with transferring namespace > permissions to something that the PAUSE admins control, so any random joe > cannot claim the namespace and upload whatever he likes into it (this is

Re: Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-03-24 Thread Leon Timmermans
On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 4:07 PM, David Golden wrote: > If you don't know what I'm referring to, read > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/03/23/npm_left_pad_chaos/ > > Leaving aside the IP issue, I think it might be worth considering what > would currently happen if someone chose a 'mass removal'

Re: Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-03-24 Thread Aristotle Pagaltzis
* Neil Bowers [2016-03-24 15:30]: > PAUSE doesn’t (currently) know the river position, but if it published > a feed of deletion-schedulings, then some third-party agent could > monitor the feed and check for dists that are on river. I think those > are the dists that should be alerted to modules@

Re: Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-03-24 Thread Neil Bowers
>> PAUSE doesn’t (currently) know the river position, but if it published >> a feed of deletion-schedulings, then some third-party agent could >> monitor the feed and check for dists that are on river. I think those >> are the dists that should be alerted to modules@ […] Obviously the >> issue here

Re: Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-03-24 Thread Olaf Alders
> On Mar 24, 2016, at 5:02 PM, Neil Bowers wrote: > >>> PAUSE doesn’t (currently) know the river position, but if it published >>> a feed of deletion-schedulings, then some third-party agent could >>> monitor the feed and check for dists that are on river. I think those >>> are the dists that sh

Re: Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-03-24 Thread Aristotle Pagaltzis
* Neil Bowers [2016-03-24 22:05]: > > Plack::Middleware::Rewrite is used by a ton of people and klaxons > > certainly ought to blare if I ever opened up that namespace. The > > number of on-CPAN dependents is just 3 though. > > The key word in what I said was *any*. I think even 3 dependents > sho

Re: Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-03-24 Thread Neil Bowers
> I wonder what the volume in one case vs the other is. Maybe the attempt > to distinguish the cases is premature optimisation that can be skipped? > (Hopefully so, but I don’t know.) I suspect you’re right, and we should start off with everything, and only worry if it seems too noisy. One optim

Re: Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-03-25 Thread Kent Fredric
That scenario doesn't seem right. A mere deletion of a .pm file in a future release aught to be the tripwire for such a warning. An explicit namespace clearance is much more dire. On 25/03/2016 11:51, "Neil Bowers" wrote: > I wonder what the volume in one case vs the other is. Maybe the attempt >

Re: Thoughts on Kik and NPM and implications for CPAN

2016-04-04 Thread Philippe Bruhat (BooK)
On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 05:38:13PM -0400, Olaf Alders wrote: > > > On Mar 24, 2016, at 5:02 PM, Neil Bowers wrote: > > > >>> PAUSE doesn’t (currently) know the river position, but if it published > >>> a feed of deletion-schedulings, then some third-party agent could > >>> monitor the feed and c