Re: What is the value of the State?

> On May 15, 2017, at 6:00 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > >> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 10:42:01AM -0700, Steven Schear wrote: >>> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 9:32 AM, John Newman wrote: >>> >>> >>> > On May 13, 2017, at 7:12 PM, Zenaan Harkness

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 10:42:01AM -0700, Steven Schear wrote: > On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 9:32 AM, John Newman wrote: > > > > > > > > On May 13, 2017, at 7:12 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > > > >> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 01:59:32PM -0400, John Newman wrote:

Re: What is the value of the State?

On 05/15/2017 10:42 AM, Steven Schear wrote: > > The fact that science advances is not a legitimate attack on any > particular piece of current science. If that's all you got... you got > nothing. "Trump's pick for USDA Chief Scientist is missing a key requirement for the job: being a

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 9:32 AM, John Newman wrote: > > > > On May 13, 2017, at 7:12 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > >> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 01:59:32PM -0400, John Newman wrote: > >> > >> > >>> On May 13, 2017, at 10:46 AM, Steven Schear

Re: What is the value of the State?

> On May 13, 2017, at 7:12 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > >> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 01:59:32PM -0400, John Newman wrote: >> >> >>> On May 13, 2017, at 10:46 AM, Steven Schear wrote: >>> >>> Michael Crichton's famous lecture drops the mike on

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 01:59:32PM -0400, John Newman wrote: > > > > On May 13, 2017, at 10:46 AM, Steven Schear wrote: > > > > Michael Crichton's famous lecture drops the mike on consensus vs. science > > and should be required reading for anyone with an open mind on

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 10:20:11AM -0700, Steven Schear wrote: > As I mentioned, cosmology is another field whose theories also can never be > conclusively proven and despite massive consensus will remain just that: > only opinion. Well I for one am very s[ck]eptical about this particular

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Sat, 13 May 2017 13:59:32 -0400 John Newman wrote: > > It's funny how the biggest skeptics on climate science tend to either > be funded by the petroleum (and related) industry ah, a conspiracy theory? ^-^ >(these are the few > that publish studies) OR have no

Re: What is the value of the State?

> On May 13, 2017, at 10:46 AM, Steven Schear wrote: > > Michael Crichton's famous lecture drops the mike on consensus vs. science and > should be required reading for anyone with an open mind on this topic. > > >

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 01:16:16AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > imagination. Or something :-Dξꟾ By the way, this character: ꟾ should appear as a vertical bar - it does not with X -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--10-100-75-75-c-60-iso10646-1 (6x10) font, so perhaps someone will leap in and add this

Re: What is the value of the State?

Perfectly apropos. Really enjoyed this link (or rather, the text behind the link). Grazios! (Indeed, it's as apropos as your top posting is uselessly contrary to the thread as it was and to our general expectations for this list which are thus heedlessly, needlessly, a rapping and a tappingly

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 08:27:43PM +1000, James A. Donald wrote: > If you have read the climategate files, you will know that the new > scientific method, the method of official science, is to determine > the truth by consensus, then look for evidence to support that > official truth, while

Re: What is the value of the State?

If you have read the climategate files, you will know that the new scientific method, the method of official science, is to determine the truth by consensus, then look for evidence to support that official truth, while ignoring or suppressing any contrary evidence, and if evidence cannot be

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Thu, 11 May 2017 18:48:02 -0500 "\\0xDynamite" wrote: > >> > Those pushing the anthropomorphic climate change agenda never, > >> > AFAIK, ever admit that this view is ONLY consensus (based on data > >> > and models) but not independently verifiable via the

Re: What is the value of the State?

>> > Those pushing the anthropomorphic climate change agenda never, >> > AFAIK, ever admit that this view is ONLY consensus (based on data >> > and models) but not independently verifiable via the Scientific >> > Method, the gold standard for science. >> >> You're talking in circles. What do you

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Thu, 11 May 2017 18:10:51 -0500 "\\0xDynamite" wrote: > > Those pushing the anthropomorphic climate change agenda never, > > AFAIK, ever admit that this view is ONLY consensus (based on data > > and models) but not independently verifiable via the Scientific > >

Re: What is the value of the State?

The Scientific Method requires that experiments with controlled initial conditions be conducted. If a field of science is such , as in cosmology or climatology, that such experiments cannot be conducted then this is a "soft" science whose "truth" can never exceed opinion, which is politics.

Re: What is the value of the State?

On 5/9/17, James A. Donald wrote: > On 2017-05-08 22:39, \0xDynamite wrote: >> Given the website you cited, I think YOU are cherry picking your >> methodology. > > I link to a cite The word is "site" and it's a bullshit, non-scientific site. > that shows scientists forging

Re: What is the value of the State?

> Those pushing the anthropomorphic climate change agenda never, AFAIK, ever > admit that this view is ONLY consensus (based on data and models) but not > independently verifiable via the Scientific Method, the gold standard for > science. You're talking in circles. What do you suppose the

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Mon, 8 May 2017 16:15:58 -0700 Steven Schear wrote: > From that reply I will assume you have nit read the book. whether I read the book or not doesn't change the fact that the assholes behind mises.org are a bunch of conservative fascists

Re: What is the value of the State?

Those pushing the anthropomorphic climate change agenda never, AFAIK, ever admit that this view is ONLY consensus (based on data and models) but not independently verifiable via the Scientific Method, the gold standard for science. Warrant Canary creator On May 8, 2017 5:22 PM, "\0xDynamite"

Re: What is the value of the State?

>> except for very token >> gestures. > > I don't think that the tens of billions of dollars that go to > special interests including of course the 'scientific' mafia > are a token gesture. There's aren't "tens of billions" of dollars spent to prove global warming except to

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Mon, May 08, 2017 at 02:51:02PM -0300, Juan wrote: > On Sat, 6 May 2017 02:32:47 -0400 > John Newman wrote: > > except for very token > > gestures. > > I don't think that the tens of billions of dollars that go to > special interests including of course the

Re: What is the value of the State?

>From that reply I will assume you have nit read the book. Warrant Canary creator On May 8, 2017 4:12 PM, "juan" wrote: > On Mon, 8 May 2017 15:59:11 -0700 > Steven Schear wrote: > > >> Mises.org > > conservative fascists posing as

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Mon, 8 May 2017 15:59:11 -0700 Steven Schear wrote: >> Mises.org conservative fascists posing as 'libertarian'

Re: What is the value of the State?

One of the best answers to this oft asked question can be found in Frank Chudorov's, The Rise and Fall of Society. Free .pdf and .epub unavailable at Mises.org https://mises.org/files/rise-and-fall-society Steve Warrant Canary creator On May 2, 2017 5:40 PM, "jim bell"

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Mon, May 08, 2017 at 02:51:02PM -0300, juan wrote: > On Sat, 6 May 2017 02:32:47 -0400 > John Newman wrote: > > > > > > What's your evidence that anthropogenic climate change is a massive > > hoax? I know we've been through this before and I don't want another > > flame

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Sat, 6 May 2017 02:32:47 -0400 John Newman wrote: > > What's your evidence that anthropogenic climate change is a massive > hoax? I know we've been through this before and I don't want another > flame fest I'm genuinely curious.

Re: What is the value of the State?

Just to be clear, since juan and other get their panties in a wad if even the possibility of God is mentioned, I AM claiming that Christians are BIASed about the issue of god -- they think it's Jesus. Talk about an opportunity that was missed by the intelligensia. \0x On 5/8/17, \0xDynamite

Re: What is the value of the State?

>>>I think I know more about physics and its manipulation by state >>>mafias than you do.i ii >> >> What's your evidence that anthropogenic climate change is a massive hoax? >> I know we've been through this before and I don't want another flame >> fest I'm genuinely curious. > > It is

Re: What is the value of the State?

On 2017-05-06 16:32, John Newman wrote: On May 6, 2017, at 12:08 AM, juan wrote: On Fri, 5 May 2017 18:34:58 -0400 Steve Kinney wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/05/2017 03:24 PM, juan wrote: On Thu, 4 May 2017

Re: What is the value of the State?

> On May 6, 2017, at 12:08 AM, juan wrote: > > On Fri, 5 May 2017 18:34:58 -0400 > Steve Kinney wrote: > >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> >> >>> On 05/05/2017 03:24 PM, juan wrote: >>> On Thu, 4 May 2017 20:33:56 -0400

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Fri, 5 May 2017 18:34:58 -0400 Steve Kinney wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 05/05/2017 03:24 PM, juan wrote: > > On Thu, 4 May 2017 20:33:56 -0400 Steve Kinney > > wrote: > > > > > >> > >> The State fully

Re: What is the value of the State?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/05/2017 03:24 PM, juan wrote: > On Thu, 4 May 2017 20:33:56 -0400 Steve Kinney > wrote: > > >> >> The State fully endorses the Scientician approach, as the State's >> sole function is to transfer money and power from

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Thu, 4 May 2017 20:33:56 -0400 Steve Kinney wrote: > > The State fully endorses the Scientician approach, as the State's sole > function is to transfer money and power from the poor to the rich at > the fastest practicable rate. As always, symbolic "initiatives" and >

Re: What is the value of the State?

Steven and Zenaan, Very good material. Nice analysis of the scientism. You'd like the study of the Nacirema people in anthropology. Finally people are starting to see that the worship of science was no superior than the worship of Jesus. Both have delayed real social progress by almost a

[OT] Special Dates (was Re: What is the value of the State?)

[OT] On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 7:41 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > PS for Georgi, who likes to celebrate special dates! > > May the 4th be with you, yayyy!!! :D --- And today, Happy Cinco de Mayo, yayyy!!! :D * Trump Before (2016):

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Thu, May 04, 2017 at 01:49:03PM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 05/03/2017 03:27 PM, juan wrote: > > > what's actually going on is that people with the same twisted > > desire for 'order' like you are embarked in the destruction or >

Re: What is the value of the State?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/04/2017 06:11 PM, juan wrote: > On Thu, 4 May 2017 13:49:03 -0400 Steve Kinney > wrote: >> The Scientician faith and its Corporate Capitalist patrons tell >> us that technological "quick fix" solutions will be created

Re: What is the value of the State?

PS for Georgi, who likes to celebrate special dates! May the 4th be with you, yayyy!!! :D

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Thu, 4 May 2017 13:49:03 -0400 Steve Kinney wrote: > > The global Superstate scenario is "real" in the sense that many people > actually seem to believe in it, approve of it and want to make it > happen. Such is the power of propaganda in the age of ubiquitous >

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Thu, May 4, 2017, at 4:29 PM, John Newman wrote: > > Are you a lawyer, or a "jailhouse lawyer"? ;) The ridiculously > over-zealous punitive nature of the legal system, at least in America, > always has a massive bias against the individual. Essentially, you don't > have any

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Wed, May 03, 2017 at 01:29:35PM +, \0xDynamite wrote: > >> Yet, they haven't "self-organized" to come together and FIX the > >> problem in their own self-interest, have they? So there either is an > >> error in the analysis or there is some EXISTENTIALLY OTHER force that > >> prevents it

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Thu, May 04, 2017 at 01:49:03PM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote: > > > On 05/03/2017 03:27 PM, juan wrote: > > > what's actually going on is that people with the same twisted > > desire for 'order' like you are embarked in the destruction or > > 'assimilation' of human invidivuals into some sort

Re: What is the value of the State?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/03/2017 03:27 PM, juan wrote: > what's actually going on is that people with the same twisted > desire for 'order' like you are embarked in the destruction or > 'assimilation' of human invidivuals into some sort of 'meta > organism'. Or

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Thu, May 04, 2017 at 03:18:03AM +, \0xDynamite wrote: > You know, you guys have given some decent responses. Hey, let's call it "us guys", as in all of us - we're in this world together of course .. > The truth of the matter is that I love the anarchists. I am equally > happy with an

Re: What is the value of the State?

You know, you guys have given some decent responses. The truth of the matter is that I love the anarchists. I am equally happy with an Enlightened State (if such could be made) as anarchy, but I can't get settled with either because there's no love from either. So, I cannot allow myself to

Re: What is the value of the State?

> gcc (without modules) -> gcc (without plug ins) -> LLVM -> gcc (with plug ins)

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Wed, May 03, 2017 at 03:11:32PM +, \0xDynamite wrote: > >> The solution, then, is a META-state. A system of order bigger and > >> better than the State. > > > > Yes. How could we have missed such an obvious solution. > > Easy tiger. Hopefully, the other posts clarify. Obviously the

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Wed, May 03, 2017 at 01:27:05PM +, \0xDynamite wrote: > >>That's some good bit o' history. > > It was you who asked the question "Without a State, would we have > > electronics? Radio?" > > Yes and I was being serious. I hadn't encounted that history before. > > >> I was really

Re: What is the value of the State?

From: \0xDynamite >>That's some good bit o' history. > It was you who asked the question "Without a State, would we have > electronics?  Radio?" >Yes and I was being serious.  I hadn't encounted that history  And you probably haven't encountered the history of most

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Wed, 3 May 2017 13:27:05 + "\\0xDynamite" wrote: > Just as single-cellular life gave rise > to multi-cellular life, so now you believe in evolution? > a new LEVEL of order was made beyond the cell. > In this sense, you could say all the

Re: What is the value of the State?

>> The solution, then, is a META-state. A system of order bigger and >> better than the State. > > Yes. How could we have missed such an obvious solution. Easy tiger. Hopefully, the other posts clarify. Obviously the State sucks, but it sucks because of THE PEOPLE, don't forget that.

Re: What is the value of the State?

>> Yet, they haven't "self-organized" to come together and FIX the >> problem in their own self-interest, have they? So there either is an >> error in the analysis or there is some EXISTENTIALLY OTHER force that >> prevents it that is not of this world --otherwise they would come >> together and

Re: What is the value of the State?

>>That's some good bit o' history. > It was you who asked the question "Without a State, would we have > electronics? Radio?" Yes and I was being serious. I hadn't encounted that history before. >> I was really referring to the level > of existing order needed to create *more* levels of

Re: What is the value of the State?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/02/2017 05:39 PM, \0xDynamite wrote: >>> But I like the sentiment. I think the problem is more than >>> the State. It's the pathetic infrastructure that would be an >>> eyesore for centuries. >> >> Bear in mind that the "State" is a model of

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Mon, May 01, 2017 at 01:41:16PM +, \0xDynamite wrote: > >> How does anarchy provide the high-level of organization needed to > >> produce a car? > > > > Humans have this funny habit of organising themselves, through > > conversation into action, to meet actual needs or desires. "Social > >

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Tue, May 02, 2017 at 03:50:51PM -0500, \0xDynamite wrote: > That's some good bit o' history. I was really referring to the level > of existing order needed to create *more* levels of order. E.g "create tech to fly to Mars" and stuff? > I don't > think it's possible to argue with that.

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Tue, 2 May 2017 16:39:09 -0500 "\\0xDynamite" wrote: > The solution, then, is a META-state. A system of order bigger and > better than the State. Yes. How could we have missed such an obvious solution. What's needed is a META-STATE. with JESUS

Re: What is the value of the State?

From: \0xDynamite >That's some good bit o' history. It was you who asked the question "Without a State, would we have electronics?   Radio?" I proceeded to answer that question, and others.  You asked the history question, I thought the answer was obviousl. >  

Re: What is the value of the State?

On 05/02/2017 02:31 PM, Steve Kinney wrote: > walking it back to conditions comparable to the 1950s is humanity's > Great Mission Objective. Dog forbid! Rr

Re: What is the value of the State?

Even better, just listen to this: Cyberpunkers, illegal mix, vol 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoR-3xuZNw8 There's, like, 6 more volumes. \x

Re: What is the value of the State?

>> But I like the sentiment. I think the problem is more than the >> State. It's the pathetic infrastructure that would be an eyesore >> for centuries. > > Bear in mind that the "State" is a model of governance, not a synonym > for governance. It is a failed model, as witness the Anthropocene >

Re: What is the value of the State?

That's some good bit o' history. I was really referring to the level of existing order needed to create *more* levels of order. I don't think it's possible to argue with that. It's like arguing what's the use of the Self? BECAUSE without it you'd turn into little slime molds looking for food.

Re: What is the value of the State?

From: \0xDynamite >Without a State, would we have electronics?  Radio? That's a question which displays a lack of knowledge of technical history.   Radio transmission was known as a consequence of Maxwell's equations, Maxwell's equations  .    Heinrich Hertz        

Re: What is the value of the State?

>> How does anarchy provide the high-level of organization needed to >> produce a car? > > Humans have this funny habit of organising themselves, through > conversation into action, to meet actual needs or desires. "Social > animals" and all.. > > Seriously, the problem is not, has never been and

Re: What is the value of the State?

On 2017-05-01 10:58, \0xDynamite wrote: How does anarchy provide the high-level of organization needed to produce a car? From ore, to smelting steel, to engineering, to molding, to paints, batteries, upholstery and textiles, etc? Anarcho socialists and anarcho communists have provided vague

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Mon, 1 May 2017 12:20:19 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > Humans have this funny habit of organising themselves, through > conversation into action, to meet actual needs or desires. "Social > animals" and all.. > > Seriously, the problem is not, has never been and never

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Apr 30, 2017, at 8:58 PM, \0xDynamite wrote: >>> This seems like a lame question, but What is the value of the State? >> >> Centralisation of power. > > You can have a socialist state without centralization. > >> A sense of safety/security for sheeple. > > But

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Mon, May 01, 2017 at 12:58:31AM +, \0xDynamite wrote: > >> This seems like a lame question, but What is the value of the State? > > > > Centralisation of power. > > You can have a socialist state without centralization. You're presuming value in "socialist state". When I said "one of the

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Mon, 1 May 2017 01:08:34 + "\\0xDynamite" wrote: > >> How does anarchy provide the high-level of organization needed to > >> produce a car? From ore, to smelting steel, to engineering, to > >> molding, to paints, batteries, upholstery and textiles, etc? > > > >

Re: What is the value of the State?

>> How does anarchy provide the high-level of organization needed to >> produce a car? From ore, to smelting steel, to engineering, to >> molding, to paints, batteries, upholstery and textiles, etc? > > are you trolling or what? Are you as ignorant as your question > suggests you are,

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Mon, 1 May 2017 00:58:31 + "\\0xDynamite" wrote: > > How does anarchy provide the high-level of organization needed to > produce a car? From ore, to smelting steel, to engineering, to > molding, to paints, batteries, upholstery and textiles, etc? are

Re: What is the value of the State?

On 5/1/17, \0xDynamite wrote: >>> This seems like a lame question, but What is the value of the State? >> >> Centralisation of power. > > You can have a socialist state without centralization. > >> A sense of safety/security for sheeple. > > But the state also makes

Re: What is the value of the State?

>> This seems like a lame question, but What is the value of the State? > > Centralisation of power. You can have a socialist state without centralization. > A sense of safety/security for sheeple. But the state also makes insecurity: bigger wars, for example. >> Without a State, would we

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 11:37:06PM +, \0xDynamite wrote: > This seems like a lame question, but What is the value of the State? Centralisation of power. A sense of safety/security for sheeple. Touted ideals by the state which are difficult to claim/exercise because of the state, i.e. self

Re: What is the value of the State?

On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 23:37:06 + "\\0xDynamite" wrote: > This seems like a lame question, but What is the value of the State? pretty valuable, for statists. > Do activists require a State (defined as a codifed system of > governance)?

What is the value of the State?

This seems like a lame question, but What is the value of the State? Do activists require a State (defined as a codifed system of governance)? Without a State, would we have electronics? Radio? Computers? Mass Transit? Bikes? And if we need a State, what form should it take? Marxos