Ian Jackson wrote:
> - defining new field names for .desktop files to contain
>the trad menu metadata, as necessary. I think we can safely
>call these fields X-Debian-* or X-Debian-Menu-* or something.
What is the use case for these fields?
> - a small amount of work in the already-
Sam Hartman wrote:
That seems very unlikely to me. Diversity is an important part of
Debian. I think it is likely that the TC is going to value the Debian
Menu as long as Bill or someone else is going to work on it. I would
expect us to value the menu enough to
her people’s language, maybe
you should reflect on your own behavior, which is way more offensive
than any kind of swearing.
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Sam Hartman wrote:
Bill, in his role of policy editor said that he believed there was not a
consensus. He cited a specific set of messages that he believes were
not properly addressed.
>From the beginning, I have been puzzled by your approach to this issue.
With this par
es to deliver only .desktop files, we'll see
> developers thinking about sensible ways to present hundreds of
> applications to their users.
There is a sensible way: not present the useless ones. Use
NoDisplay=true everywhere appropriate.
I don’t think presenting the whole contents of
tle
> glitch.
Wild guess: because the Technical Committee is being treated as a
personal playground by a couple developers.
Maybe they should read the Constitution, especially §6.3.6. Ironically
enough, this advice applies most to the person who originally wrote it.
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Le vendredi 14 février 2014 à 13:50 +, Ian Jackson a écrit :
> Josselin Mouette writes ("Bug#727708: init system coupling etc."):
> > In all cases, it is unacceptable to put the burden of implementing
> > logind on non-systemd systems on maintainers of packages that
d as PID 1, and that will
be all.
(For non-Linux ports, the old ConsoleKit code will be enabled instead,
but users should not expect this to work at all.)
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s just a fork of systemd 204, and it sounds complicated
to maintain both versions of systemd in Debian.
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Hi Neil,
Le vendredi 31 janvier 2014 à 11:55 +, Neil McGovern a écrit :
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 09:33:33AM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > Given the Condorcet voting method is susceptible to tactical voting,
> I'm not sure what you mean here, could you care to elaborat
e against.
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when the votes are public, I fear it would make it very
tempting for some members to manipulate the vote using this added
complexity.
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Le jeudi 30 janvier 2014 à 21:38 +0400, Sergey B Kirpichev a écrit :
> [Lots of crap]
>
> Where is the list of problems for sysvinit we intend to solve?
https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/systemd#sysvinit_.2B-_insserv
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nd even for
> basic functionality
My bad. I was under the impression you wanted a serious discussion.
Sorry for contributing to the noise, everyone.
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with
some time, making it unsuitable for a new stable
release that needs maintenance for several more years
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re are solutions for a non-systemd init. They are technically wrong,
but they are realistic (basically it means using logind v204). But there
are no realistic solutions for having GNOME support multiple init
systems in jessie.
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Le mardi 28 janvier 2014 à 19:34 +0200, Adrian Bunk a écrit :
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 01:24:12PM +0100, Olav Vitters wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > > Le mardi 28 janvier 2014 à 08:16 +0100, Ansgar Burchardt a écrit :
> > >&g
ble:
http://lists.debian.org/1390155797.29928.17.camel@tomoe
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Le lundi 27 janvier 2014 à 17:48 +, Ian Jackson a écrit :
> Josselin Mouette writes ("Bug#727708: multiple init systems - formal
> resolution proposal"):
> > Since this resolution would override the will of each maintainer to make
> > his package depend on whate
tware depends on, it
requires a 3:1 majority according to Constitution §6.1.4.
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have no idea of how (and by whom) any other option than
those three would be implemented, making any decision stating otherwise
untenable.
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with a subje
eally trival FTBFS fixing...),
> tested it, and I can happily say it works.
>
> The only thing that bothers me a bit is that the ANSI output isn't so
> pretty, but I guess this is fixable and a minor problem.
>
> On the Thu, 16 Jan 2014 17:18:24 +0100, Josselin Mouette
> wrote
e
case.
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This assumes that OpenRC can be fixed to have parallel boot, otherwise
this is a big regression from the current insserv setup.
> If your real point is "pick systemd *or* upstart and don't try to
> assert that we should support both", I can easily agree with that.
A
multiple init
systems and how to switch between them:
http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-January/msg00861.html
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into /usr/local/, enabled to use
> custom compiled ad-hoc replacements as desired by deployments.
blah.service.in:
ExecStart=@bindir@/blah --no-fork
How complicated is that?
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dy hard enough to imagine that we would have to ship packages
without the appropriate dependencies on systemd; expecting them to have
the same functional coverage without it is simply insane.
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needs to rethink how it can be more friendly to some important upstream
projects, or we will simply stop being the “universal” operating system.
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with a subjec
terface and subject
to the stability promise. The only other existing implementation
(cgmanager) is merely wrapping in D-Bus the existing kernel API, which
is going to die when a single writer becomes necessary.
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tty sure the same
holds for a systemd package that would be required to remain at version
204, stripped of stuff that doesn’t work with upstart.
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* Transparent virtual environment support
* Watchdog
* Initramfs support
* Introspection and debugging
* Configuration-less system
* User sessions
I’m curious as to what features you consider not relevant for Debian.
Thanks,
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Le mercredi 01 janvier 2014 à 01:54 -0008, cameron a écrit :
> On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Josselin Mouette
> wrote:
> > I am a bit confused here. You wrote in the upstart position
> > statement, almost at the top: “Upstart supports both bus activation
> > and so
th bus activation and socket activation.”
Why advertise it if it is “a red herring that will never deliver the
promised benefits”?
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desktop to spend it on
dumping Ubuntu packages in Debian instead.
So unless the TC wants to remove a great number of packages from the
archive, you need to take into account the fact that some voluntary
manpower is required to implement your decision.
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:
ible time, and passed to the daemon as it is
started, but it will be started regardless of an incoming connection.
This is described in more detailed in the “systemd for administrators”
series:
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/socket-activation2.html
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more absurd that the
lack of such a policy is used as an argument in the discussion that
should lead to its writing.
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that doesn’t
make the design less correct.
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a chroot environment, but they are the
exception, not the rule. And unless things go hectic, we *will* be able
to treat them normally and provide an upgrade path that doesn’t force
users to do locked upgrades.
All of this looks very far away from the init system discussion,
though.
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them before asking the same
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I think about it, the more I wish the TC would decide:
> * jessie will continue to use sysvinit, and the TC will re-evaluate
> the situation after the release of jessie
This option does not look realistic to me. At least the upstart
proponents have outlined a strategy to keep
ack some packages, and lose some benefits.
* Since kdbus is much faster, applications might start to rely on
that and lose performance on systems without kdbus.
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mpatibility problems than those we already have (e.g. with udev).
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hich ones would have
mandated a security label.
Message transféré
De: Jef Spaleta
À: Josselin Mouette
Sujet: Re: FYI: for the systemd security debate.
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 23:39:59 -0900
Evening,
So loo
Le lundi 02 décembre 2013 à 13:41 -0700, Bdale Garbee a écrit :
> Josselin Mouette writes:
>
> > There are two implied assumptions here:
> > * that the same people are developing all components;
> > * that develolpers have the same atten
* that the same people are developing all components;
* that develolpers have the same attention to code quality and
security in all components they work on.
I don’t think either of them applies to systemd.
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Le vendredi 29 novembre 2013 à 17:55 +0100, Josselin Mouette a écrit :
> Indeed, systemd has not been written with security in mind.
Obviously, such a subjective judgment of valor does not mean the same to
me as to other developers. It is easy to quote it out of context and say
“oh, look! s
Le vendredi 29 novembre 2013 à 17:11 +, Ian Jackson a écrit :
> Josselin Mouette writes ("Bug#727708: systemd (security) bugs (was: init
> system question)"):
> > Personally, I find the flow of bugs (including security bugs) for
> > moderately recent software the
ysvinit due to
broken design.
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nsider the final touch for the systemd statement page. It is
now mostly finished, including the rebuttals, and should only need new
updates for spelling mistakes or minor inaccuracies.
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ng of NM as discussed in #688772), the
>meta-gnome maintainers may freely adjust the dependencies as
>usual.
Can we consider that the changes in NetworkManager 0.9.4.0-9 are OK on
this matter?
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Hi,
Le jeudi 25 octobre 2012 à 00:13 +0200, Joerg Jaspert a écrit :
> On 13009 March 1977, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>
> > In the current situation, I do not feel bound by any decisions the
> > committee might make.
>
> You know, if it really comes to one more CTTE decisi
le; and
proposing this kind of passive-agressive wording in a TC decision is
part of the problem. He should step down from the committee or be forced
to do so.
In the current situation, I do not feel bound by any decisions the
committee might make.
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ours?
> And btw, it doesn't help to replace reason by emotion.
Reason has abandoned this discussion long ago. This has always been
about people who don’t even use GNOME but who won’t accept the idea that
we would install NM on other people’s computers.
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reduce this number further.
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Le vendredi 12 octobre 2012 à 21:07 +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli a écrit :
> For lack of a better synopsis, the argument there is "because recommends
> do not behave properly across upgrades".
And also, the purpose of metapackages is to ship dependencies.
--
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sounds like yourself.
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ware.
Therefore, this change was supposed to happen in squeeze, but we already
delayed it at that time because of upgrades from lenny, and because the
configuration format for system connections was still new and thus
unfamiliar to many.
If we delay it once again, what do we do for jessie?
Le vendredi 05 octobre 2012 à 16:46 -0700, Don Armstrong a écrit :
> On Sat, 06 Oct 2012, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > The code that makes it actually *work* without NM installed was
> > added for kFreeBSD – incidentally, by the same NM maintainer whose
> > work has been repea
Hi Don,
Le vendredi 05 octobre 2012 à 11:36 -0700, Don Armstrong a écrit :
> On Thu, 27 Sep 2012, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > Recommends are not enough to ensure that packages are installed,
> > especially upon upgrades. For example regarding NM, we definitely
> > *want* pe
twork-manager disable”. In the same way that most (if not all) GNOME
packages, once installed, can be disabled one way or another - be it by
unshowing menu entries, locking dbus services or disabling init scripts.
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Le mardi 25 septembre 2012 à 19:28 +0200, Andreas Barth a écrit :
> * Josselin Mouette (j...@debian.org) [120925 18:37]:
> > I’ve just read Ian Jackson’s latest proposal:
> [...]
>
> If you mean by your subject that the words "This should be in
> compliance with the Cr
.
I don’t think any of this is acceptable behavior for a DD in a position
of responsibility. Therefore, Ian, I suggest that you resign from the
Technical Committee.
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ers, that would be a great achievement.
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the XDG system.
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imp opening PDFs is a bug in
gimp, not a bug in evince. Furthermore, it only happens with the XDG
system outside GNOME/KDE, not with the old MIME system, since gimp
doesn’t ship a legacy MIME file.
I’d appreciate if the release team and CTTE could avoid basing their
decisions upon such misinfo
reopen 587956
reassign 587956 tech-ctte
thanks
Le samedi 03 juillet 2010 à 19:15 +0200, Marco d'Itri a écrit :
> On Jul 03, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>
> > You wanted it to behave in a buggy way, then. That doesn???t make it less
> > a bug.
> I stand by my position. I
by both
Matthias and the people who appealed. That list includes neither
Matthias nor myself.
That would be fair. And that would ensure that people would try to think
up new solutions out of the box, instead of re-hashing arguments from
the past.
Cheers,
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gt; contribute, while not giving this power to others.
>
> Eh, where does that proposal give Matthias veto power?
If Matthias can refuse someone to be part of the core team because he
doesn’t trust that person, that’s a veto power.
Cheers,
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ractically speaking, it won’t change a thing.
Oh, a completely unrelated comment: it looks to me that the Python 2.6
transition is going to delay the squeeze freeze date.
Anyone has some pop-corn?
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my request is about the etch release. I'm pretty sure we can come
to an agreement after the release.
Regards,
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the release,
and it turned out soon that we would not come to an agreement on this
matter. Which is why I'm forwarding this issue to the Technical
Committee.
Regards,
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