Raul Miller wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 30, 1998 at 11:32:00AM -0700, Bruce Perens wrote:
> > > The patent expires in August.
>
> Rev. Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > You think nobody is going to try and snatch it then?
>
> Er.. how do you snatch an expired patent?
>
Patents have a finite
At 00:31 +0100 1998-04-30, James Troup wrote:
>Michael Alan Dorman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> [ ... ] ld.so doesn't apply [ ... ]
>
>Upgrade your quinn-diff :-) From 0.31's ChangeLog.main :-
>
>| Sun Apr 12 21:33:14 1998 James Troup <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>|
>| * Packages-arch-specifi
A week or so ago I sent a report[1] regarding the latest upstream version
of the shadow password utils, in that report I detailed which bugs were
fixed, and I offered to do a non-maintainer release.
I have yet to receive any response, I assume this is because the maintainer
(Guy Maor) is busy, so
I've just installed the latest versions of the tetex packages from my
local mirror, i.e.:
ii tetex-base 0.9-5 basic teTeX library files
ii tetex-bin 0.9-4 teTeX binary files
ii tetex-doc 0.9-5 teTeX documentation
ii tetex-extra 0.9-5 ext
On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 2. Make sure that the color monitors are supported automatically from the
> installation screen itself.
Thats a good point, who actually has a truely MONO screen anymore? I've
got lots of 'mono' VGA screens (grey scale actually) and I have one true
Dale Scheetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As to source dependency problems, it is my understanding that all the
> packages in the main distribution can be built using only packages from
> main.
That's a lot of packages. I've used .deb packages which include source on
little dinky machines with on
Jason Gunthorpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> 2. Make sure that the color monitors are supported automatically from the
>> installation screen itself.
>
>Thats a good point, who actually has a truely MONO screen anymore? [...]
>I think machines with
Bear Giles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That said, I can't see anyone using a MCA card as his primary
> interface.
I can see this, or serial console, being used for a server.
Also, don't forget the sorts of interfaces blind people use...
--
Raul
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Raul Miller wrote:
> Bear Giles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > That said, I can't see anyone using a MCA card as his primary
> > interface.
>
> I can see this, or serial console, being used for a server.
Actually, you'd be insane to put a MCA card in a server (you'd have t
On 30 Apr, Raul Miller wrote:
> Bear Giles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> That said, I can't see anyone using a MCA card as his primary
>> interface.
>
> I can see this, or serial console, being used for a server.
>
> Also, don't forget the sorts of interfaces blind people use...
>
> Berr Giles
Jason Gunthorpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Actually, you'd be insane to put a MCA card in a server (you'd have to get
> it second hand and so on). They generally slow down the machine because of
> the limits they place on the ISA bus and require special mca screens!
I've put together my share of
From: Jason Gunthorpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Actually, you'd be insane to put a MCA card in a server (you'd have to get
>it second hand and so on). They generally slow down the machine because of
>the limits they place on the ISA bus and require special mca screens!
When you're only running a
On Thu, Apr 30, 1998 at 08:21:13PM -0600, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> I think machines with a mono video card (ie a herc) would be unable to run
> Debian in the first place, and a greyscale screen doesn't need mono
> support.
Why's that? I ran Debian successfully on one machine with a Herc card
for o
On Thu, Apr 30, 1998 at 09:54:41PM -0600, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Raul Miller wrote:
> > Bear Giles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > That said, I can't see anyone using a MCA card as his primary
> Actually, you'd be insane to put a MCA card in a server (you'd have to get
> it
On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:22:12 MDT Bear Giles ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> If not, does anyone know where "dlfcn.h" (as I recall) comes from?
% dpkg -S dlfcn.h
libc6-dev: /usr/include/dlfcn.h
It's the header for dlopen(), dlclose(), dlsym(), dladdr(), the dynamic
linker functions.
Phil.
--
T
On Wed, Apr 29, 1998 at 09:32:04PM +0200, Santiago Vila wrote:
> > To get maximum speed uedit will disable the wasteful multi-tasking
> > behaviour of Linux and make it do the Right thing, DOS-style
> > single-tasking. Obviously neither X nor networking survive, yay!
> > Network users should stop
Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> Thats a good point, who actually has a truely MONO screen anymore? I've
> got lots of 'mono' VGA screens (grey scale actually) and I have one true
> mono screen on the floor someplace, it connects an old 8bit herc card.
I hope that one day we will be able to install debian
Can someone tell me why a new distribution has to be started up just because
the
current one isn't newbie friendly or easy to install ?
Why not concentrate on an installation system or front end for dpkg / APT
along with a
system management GUI package that can help an inexperienced sysadmin or
Hi,
>>"James" == James Troup <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
James> Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Well, it was gfetting frustating, what with being in the middle of
>> two conversations, one with Dale and James, who are of the opinion
>> that policy is a guideline, and not a set of r
Hi,
>>"Dale" == Dale Scheetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Dale> While I agree with much of what you say about the need for
Dale> policy to be clear, I will continue to urge caution when being
Dale> dictatorial about policy.
Dale, I think no one is trying to be dictatorial about
policy. Ph
> I have generally found that policy is actually decided by
> discussion on the policy lists, and I do not agree with your
> characterization that the multi-maintianer issue had obviously not
> reached a consensus. There were objections, but (apart from you, who
> were silent) the objectors
On Thu, Apr 30, 1998 at 12:05:00PM -0700, Bruce Perens wrote:
> From: Martin Schulze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> [ Focus on the user issue ]
> > This is the case for a lot of debian developers, not for all of them,
> > I have to admit.
>
> I think it's too large a number for me to go against.
Vocal
Hi,
>>"James" == James Troup <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
James> Are you being nasty to me because I FUBARed kernel-package or
James> what?
;-)
manoj
--
"We are on a threshold of a change in the universe comparable to the
transition from nonlife to life." Hans Moravec (on arti
--On Thu, Apr 30, 1998 5:22 pm -0600 "Bear Giles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> But, as I mentioned, it's also still early Alpha -- as in a *single*
> public release to date. Is that too early for packaging?
I don't think so. Certainly not too early to go into experimental - but I
would have th
On Thu, Apr 30, 1998 at 11:32:18PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
> > That said, I can't see anyone using a MCA card as his primary
> > interface.
>
> I can see this, or serial console, being used for a server.
Or an old 386 that you use as a router...
> Also, don't forget the sorts of interfaces b
Tim Bell wrote:
>I've just installed the latest versions of the tetex packages from my
>local mirror, i.e.:
>
>ii tetex-base 0.9-5 basic teTeX library files
>ii tetex-bin 0.9-4 teTeX binary files
>ii tetex-doc 0.9-5 teTeX documentation
>i
Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
>
> On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > 2. Make sure that the color monitors are supported automatically from the
> > installation screen itself.
>
> Thats a good point, who actually has a truely MONO screen anymore? I've
> got lots of 'mono' VGA screens (g
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On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Rev. Joseph Carter wrote:
> The postinst for the .deb will compile the source, install the .deb, and
> clean up after itself if you so desire for a -src package...
Well, I don't plan to do that. I think it would be too much for a -src
packa
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On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote:
> As to source dependency problems, it is my understanding that all the
> packages in the main distribution can be built using only packages from
> main. Given that that doesn't tell you which packages those are, and that
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On 1 May 1998, James Troup wrote:
> Please think very hard about the benefits of our current system before
> advocating a replacement for it.
The pine-src package will not replace the already existing pine source
in the "source" directory.
Moreover, there will
On Fri, May 01, 1998 at 12:32:26PM +0200, Santiago Vila wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>
> On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Rev. Joseph Carter wrote:
>
> > The postinst for the .deb will compile the source, install the .deb, and
> > clean up after itself if you so desire for a -src package...
>
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We must ask ourselves: Why do we make .deb packages?
Simple answer: Because our users find them useful.
Remember the discussion about the purity package? Well, it was agreed
(I think) that as long as the package had a license allowing to
distribute it, we can ma
--On Fri, May 1, 1998 1:13 pm +0200 "Santiago Vila" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>
> We must ask ourselves: Why do we make .deb packages?
> Simple answer: Because our users find them useful.
>
> Remember the discussion about the purity package? Well, it was ag
Santiago Vila <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Please think very hard about the benefits of our current system
> > before advocating a replacement for it.
>
> The pine-src package will not replace the already existing pine
> source in the "source" directory.
I was not talking about pine-src, as I
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We do need a statement saying that the project has indeed adopted
> this policy document, and the ``policy'' nomenclature is not a
> ``mistake''.
We have one -- Ian made it. You've been objecting to it.
[Actually, we have many such statements, go
>
> You seemed (to my tired eyes) to be accusing people of objecting to:
>
> Policy should be followed, except where a discussion about the clause in
> question is still ongoing, in which case the maintainer may indulge in a
> policy violation if they feel it is a technically superior appro
Ronald van Loon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I find having a constitution sprung on me out of the blue, as well as the
> forming of a technical committee whose authority is unclear rather
> unsettling and contrary to the open way things have been handled so far -
> rather un-Debian, so to speak.
Jules Bean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> deb, however, is not the appropriate format for a source distribution - and
> by distributing something in source form as .deb, you are spreading a small
> amount of confusion.
So this means we should stop distributing .el sources, and compiling
them in the
A few questions from a possible future contributor (so please turn down the
flame throwers as I mean well)
I've seen the term mentioned here many times, I've looked in the docs but
can't find the meaning (so it must be slang). What is a tarball?
On the thread of .deb vs .rpm From Maximum RPM
A tarball as I understand it is very simple...
it is a directry structure tht has been tard and then gzipped
if you look around...you will find most source coes comes in "tarball" format...
and I believe slackware uses "tarball" for binary distributions
now if we only had a featherball
as for t
Stephen Carpenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> now if we only had a featherball
This kinda defeats one of the advantages of distributing diffs... unless
we also want to distribute an exploded version of the ar (or if we
could somehow get the ftp server to let you "cd" into an ar archive).
--
> On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:22:12 MDT Bear Giles ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> wrote:
> > If not, does anyone know where "dlfcn.h" (as I recall) comes from?
>
> % dpkg -S dlfcn.h
> libc6-dev: /usr/include/dlfcn.h
I also found it in libc4-dev, but not libc5-dev (5.4.33-3).
Is this a bug?
P.S., I thought
Raul Miller wrote:
> Stephen Carpenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > now if we only had a featherball
>
> This kinda defeats one of the advantages of distributing diffs... unless
> we also want to distribute an exploded version of the ar (or if we
> could somehow get the ftp server to let you
Stephen Carpenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> featherball was a joke by the way...
Sure, but it would be easy enough to put all the various source pieces
into an ar archive (kind of like what we do for the binary pieces
when we create a .deb file), and the way things are heading
maybe that's som
> I've seen the term mentioned here many times, I've looked in the docs but
> can't find the meaning (so it must be slang). What is a tarball?
*.tar (or *.tar.gz) file ("man tar") is an archive which usually contains
many files in one nice, easy to move and download "tarball".
>
> Other than one
I think someone already proposed this idea, and it was immediately
ignored, so I'm going to suggest it again:
What about a pine-installer package?
This would be similar to the netscape3 and netscape4 packages of old -
the user would be asked in the preinst to put the pine .orig.tar.gz,
the .diff.
Daniel Martin at cush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What about a pine-installer package?
>
> This would be similar to the netscape3 and netscape4 packages of old -
> the user would be asked in the preinst to put the pine .orig.tar.gz,
> the .diff.gz and the .dsc files into /tmp (or $TMPDIR); if th
> Brian, this is a useful list, but please sort it by Maintainer or by Package
> rather than by bug number:
Several people have asked for this, but maintainers already get separate
reports about their packages and reports by package are available on
the web site, so I don't really understand the u
On Fri, May 01, 1998 at 12:38:24PM -0400, Brian White wrote:
> > Brian, this is a useful list, but please sort it by Maintainer or by Package
> > rather than by bug number:
>
> Several people have asked for this, but maintainers already get separate
> reports about their packages and reports by pa
On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Raul Miller wrote:
> Dale Scheetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > As to source dependency problems, it is my understanding that all the
> > packages in the main distribution can be built using only packages from
> > main.
>
> That's a lot of packages. I've used .deb packages
Raul Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Daniel Martin at cush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > What about a pine-installer package?
> >
> > This would be similar to the netscape3 and netscape4 packages of old -
> > the user would be asked in the preinst to put the pine .orig.tar.gz,
> > the .dif
Brian White wrote:
>> Brian, this is a useful list, but please sort it by Maintainer or by Packa
>ge
>> rather than by bug number:
>
>Several people have asked for this, but maintainers already get separate
>reports about their packages and reports by package are available on
>the
Dale Scheetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What is your point? The .deb packaging of source doesn't deal with source
> dependencies any better than the current source package.
Sure it does. You put the dependencies on the Depends: line of the
control file.
> > > There is no current declared metho
'Manoj Srivastava wrote:'
>
> Well, I think if one is not constrained to follow policy, nor
> required to do so, I see no reason to actually follow policy. Why is
> it so bad to require policy to be followed?
How would you enforce it? Why require something which your police
force cannot enf
[ Still not wanting to get into the discussion, honest, just making
random points ]
Raul Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > What is your point? The .deb packaging of source doesn't deal with
> > source dependencies any better than the current source package.
>
> Sure it does. You put the
On 1 May 1998, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> Hi,
> >>"Dale" == Dale Scheetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Dale> While I agree with much of what you say about the need for
> Dale> policy to be clear, I will continue to urge caution when being
> Dale> dictatorial about policy.
>
> Dale, I thin
Daniel Martin at cush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't quite understand what ability it is that you think would be
> discarded. The ability to distribute everything needed to compile and
> install pine all at once?
Essentially, yes.
> I don't see how this would not be accomplished by a pi
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
On Fri, 1 May 1998, Daniel Martin at cush wrote:
> Let me lay out my opinion of the differences of the effects of the two
> methods:
Let me tell you that there is a workaround for all your objections :-)
> Method pine-src:
> ---
> - the user who h
> > Sure it does. You put the dependencies on the Depends: line of the
> > control file.
James Troup <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You can do that in the .dsc file too, but it suffers from the same
> problem, i.e. what to do with source dependencies like svgalibg1-dev,
> which are arch-specific wh
On Fri, 1 May 1998, Brian White wrote:
> > Brian, this is a useful list, but please sort it by Maintainer or by Package
> > rather than by bug number:
>
> Several people have asked for this, but maintainers already get separate
> reports about their packages and reports by package are available o
Raul Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> More specifically, I don't think that late in the frozen stage is
> the right time to introduce a new package format requirement for
> hamm.
Nor do I, which is why I've been avoiding this discussion.
--
James
--
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I <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sure: we do need to fix our source packaging system. I don't
> agree with that very strongly.
Argh.. bad editting on my part.
I *do* agree very strongly that we need to fix our source packaging
system.
--
Raul
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Branden Robinson) wrote on 30.04.98 in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Am I the only one who feels that, to a large extent, ease of use *is* a
> technical problem?
No. Of course not.
How else to explain apt?
> I note that on April 20th, the "Gnome System Control Panel Project" was
>
On Fri, 01 May 1998 08:25:16 MDT Bear Giles ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> > On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:22:12 MDT Bear Giles ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> > wrote:
> > > If not, does anyone know where "dlfcn.h" (as I recall) comes from?
> >
> > % dpkg -S dlfcn.h
> > libc6-dev: /usr/include/dlfcn.h
>
> I al
On Fri, 1 May 1998, Raul Miller wrote:
> Dale Scheetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > What is your point? The .deb packaging of source doesn't deal with source
> > dependencies any better than the current source package.
>
> Sure it does. You put the dependencies on the Depends: line of the
> con
Hi,
I think we are getting nowhere fast.
>>"Dale" == Dale Scheetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Dale> On 1 May 1998, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> Dale, I think no one is trying to be dictatorial about policy.
Dale> When you say the policy MUST be followed to the letter, I can
Dale> view t
Hi,
>>"Chris" == Chris Fearnley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Chris> 'Manoj Srivastava wrote:'
>> Well, I think if one is not constrained to follow policy, nor
>> required to do so, I see no reason to actually follow policy. Why
>> is it so bad to require policy to be followed?
Chris> How would yo
On Thu, Apr 30, 1998 at 06:47:02PM -0700, Joel Klecker wrote:
> A week or so ago I sent a report[1] regarding the latest upstream version
> of the shadow password utils, in that report I detailed which bugs were
> fixed, and I offered to do a non-maintainer release.
>
> I have yet to receive any r
>>"Raul" == Raul Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Raul> Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> We do need a statement saying that the project has indeed adopted
>> this policy document, and the ``policy'' nomenclature is not a
>> ``mistake''.
Raul> We have one -- Ian made it. You've be
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I wish you would talk to Raul directly. He points out that
> violations of policy shall be enforced thus:
> a) since policy is supposed to be authoritative for bug filers, and
> policy violation can be flagged as a bug.
> b) any disputes ab
Hi,
This, I like.
__
Policy should be followed, except where a discussion about the clause in
question is still ongoing, in which case the maintainer may indulge in a
policy violation if they feel it is a technica
On Fri, May 01, 1998 at 04:19:42PM +1000, John Boggon wrote:
> Can someone tell me why a new distribution has to be started up just
> because the current one isn't newbie friendly or easy to install ?
There isn't really.
> Why not concentrate on an installation system or front end for dpkg / AP
On Fri, May 01, 1998 at 12:32:26PM +0200, Santiago Vila wrote:
> > The postinst for the .deb will compile the source, install the .deb, and
> > clean up after itself if you so desire for a -src package...
>
> Well, I don't plan to do that. I think it would be too much for a -src
> package.
>
> I
On Fri, May 01, 1998 at 11:33:55AM -0400, Daniel Martin at cush wrote:
> I think someone already proposed this idea, and it was immediately
> ignored, so I'm going to suggest it again:
I didn't ignore it.
> What about a pine-installer package?
>
> This would be similar to the netscape3 and nets
On Fri, May 01, 1998 at 08:43:20PM +1000, Craig Sanders wrote:
> the qmail-src package works very nicely (i tried it out on a 'spare'
> machine recently - qmail's quite nice...if it wasn't for the license
> and attitude problems i'd be quite tempted to switch to it) and the
> build-qmail script cou
On Fri, May 01, 1998 at 04:12:59PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> Hi,
Hi back! =>
> This, I like.
Me too. It makes sense.
pgpokv7P7zBx2.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Policy should be followed, except where a discussion about the clause in
>question is still ongoing, in which case the maintainer may indulge in a
>policy violation if they feel it is a technically superior
>approach.
Hmm.. this is actu
On Fri, May 01, 1998 at 08:17:00PM +0200, Kai Henningsen wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Branden Robinson) wrote on 30.04.98 in <[EMAIL
> PROTECTED]>:
>
> (I've asked that before: what's the current status of COAS, anyway?)
Oh yeah. Bruce wanted to port it to Gtk.
Obviously, this has somewhat chan
On Fri, May 01, 1998 at 09:08:12AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I've seen the term mentioned here many times, I've looked in the docs but
> can't find the meaning (so it must be slang). What is a tarball?
A .tar.gz file =>
> On the thread of .deb vs .rpm From Maximum RPM I see that rpm
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