Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Thomas Bushnell, BSG
Chris Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We'd need perhaps three different m68k varieties (two more than now), one more Sparc, one more alpha, no more powerpc IIUC, no more arm, one more mips, one more HPPA (or two?), no more ia64 or s390. So that's nine more varities of 386 to consider,

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Matt Zimmerman
On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 08:36:12AM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote: On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 11:51:34AM -0500, Matt Zimmerman wrote: On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 12:06:40AM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote: I don't believe that transfer will be CPU bound, but rather network and/or internal bus

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Colin Watson
On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 11:45:55AM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: Craig Dickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: True, but Thomas Bushness was pretty clearly advocating supplying optimized binaries from the repository. Perhaps you missed that implication. There is no such person who has

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Michael Stone
On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 02:07:00PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: The habits (and I have them too) of thinking that disk space is costly are really old habits that it's time to break. No, it's not. Low end disks are cheap. High end disks still aren't. Bandwidth still isn't. Especially when

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Craig Sanders
On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 12:15:12PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: Craig Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: i remember a year or so ago when i complained about this worthless practice i said that it would end up consuming hundreds of megabytes - i was told that was ridiculous, it would

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Miles Bader
Michael Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, see, now Manoj would say that none at all were funny. What statistical conclusions am I to derive from that? That you're not as funny as you think you are? Still, he is often very funny (and on target), and to be honest, I think he's quite right

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Steve Langasek
On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 12:01:12PM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote: Current cost of hard disk is something between $1.00 and $1.50 per gigabyte. it's not just the cost of disk space, it's the cost of bandwidth too - and recurring bandwidth expenses cost a LOT more than disks (once-off capital

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Thomas Bushnell, BSG
Michael Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 02:07:00PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: The habits (and I have them too) of thinking that disk space is costly are really old habits that it's time to break. No, it's not. Low end disks are cheap. High end disks still

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Thomas Bushnell, BSG
Craig Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: which I will assume to be correct. how generous of you. you could have quibbled about every line of the directory listing i provided, but you restrained yourself - for that small mercy, i will be forever in your debt. I wasn't being generous, just

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Scott Dier
It also makes it 5 times as hard to build a modules package for our stock kernels. And uses an equivilant of extra space there of course. If you punch out a kernel module package its not so bad if all the headers files are installed. I wrote up a e1000 kernel package before it showed up here

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Steve Langasek
On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 05:48:47PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: Michael Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 02:07:00PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: The habits (and I have them too) of thinking that disk space is costly are really old habits that it's time to

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Craig Sanders
On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 07:27:06PM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote: On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 12:01:12PM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote: Current cost of hard disk is something between $1.00 and $1.50 per gigabyte. it's not just the cost of disk space, it's the cost of bandwidth too - and

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Manoj Srivastava
Branden == Branden Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Branden On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 12:18:20PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: This is, what, the fourth or fifth? post from Manoj in reply to one of your non-free-debate-related joke. One or two were funny, sure, but I think we've all lost the

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Manoj Srivastava
Matt == Matt Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Matt On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 12:48:51AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Emile == Emile van Bergen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Emile Leaving me wondering how the collection of selfish genes, known as the Emile individual Manoj, was driven to

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Manoj Srivastava
Miles == Miles Bader [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Miles Michael Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, see, now Manoj would say that none at all were funny. What statistical conclusions am I to derive from that? That you're not as funny as you think you are? Miles Still, he is often very

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Thomas Bushnell, BSG
Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There's how much does disk space cost?, and then there's we have x disk space available currently, and no budget for expansion right now; we only use y GB of it; how much can we mirror with the free disk space as a service to the community? This is

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Jim Lynch
On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:23:17 +0200 Mikko Moilanen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 02:47:16PM -0500, Matt Zimmerman wrote: Are you suggesting that you would prefer the latest software, without the integration that Debian provides? If so, you can get this easily by

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Matt Zimmerman
On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 08:37:19PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Matt == Matt Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 12:48:51AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: and if I can change social norms of conduct so that I would nto be hurt in the future?

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Manoj Srivastava
Matt == Matt Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Matt On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 08:37:19PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Matt == Matt Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 12:48:51AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: and if I can change social norms of conduct so that

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Matt Zimmerman
On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 09:43:03PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: You should really learn how to read. Having a goal does not imply one depends on succeeding. The journey is often worth it even if you do not depend on having attaining the goal. I read quite well, thank you. Such

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Jim Lynch
On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:41:19 -0500 Mark Mealman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 11:02:40AM +, Andrew Suffield wrote: On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 08:50:32PM +1100, Andrew Lau wrote: The question I want to pose today is Are we losing users to Gentoo?

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Manoj Srivastava
Matt == Matt Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Matt On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 09:43:03PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: You should really learn how to read. Having a goal does not imply one depends on succeeding. The journey is often worth it even if you do not depend on having attaining

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

2002-11-21 Thread Don Armstrong
Gah! Why'd he have to bring up biology? On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Matt Zimmerman wrote: To rely on gracious behaviour from other organisms is a losing evolutionary strategy, Relying soly on gracious behaviour from other organisms yes[1], but it doesn't necessarily mean that there is no selection

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