On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 10:09:06AM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
Roberto C. Sanchez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...] Person A gets mad becuase he is afraid that person B will will
get pay for something that both had originally agreed to do for free.
Now there's a key part of the problem: this
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 00:00:12 +0200, Jérôme Marant [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Le lundi 09 octobre 2006 18:54, Martin Schulze a écrit :
hard on getting Debian better be funded similarily? I know that
several people have lost their motivation to work on Debian as
before (yes, others will hate me
On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 10:36:57 +0200, Jérôme Marant [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Le mercredi 11 octobre 2006 10:16, vous avez écrit :
It's not Dunc Tank's fault if your jealous.
Hmm, maybe it is because the developer is jealous on/of somebody
being directly or indirectly paid by the project
On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 10:52:57 +1000, Anthony Towns
aj@azure.humbug.org.au said:
If you want to get paid to work on Debian, then there's a few things
that are a good idea: demonstrating you're competent and skilled,
that you're willing to work on areas that other people think are
important,
On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 03:00:02PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
The RMs personally are in a privileged position for requesting
funding:
The RMs didn't request funding.
their role within Debian is critical for the whole project;
Plenty of people run unstable, and it's often been mooted that we
On Wednesday 11 October 2006 13:18, Martin Schulze wrote:
Jérôme Marant wrote:
It's not Dunc Tank's fault if your jealous.
Hmm, maybe it is because the developer is jealous on/of somebody
being directly or indirectly paid by the project while they are
not?
My personal belief
On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 03:00:02PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
Raphael Hertzog writes (Re: Using money to fund real Debian work):
But if the structure is open to everyone, then everybody has a
chance to request funding.
This is precisely what is wrong with funding the RMs, and what makes
Jérôme Marant wrote:
Le lundi 09 octobre 2006 18:54, Martin Schulze a écrit :
hard on getting Debian better be funded similarily? I know that
several people have lost their motivation to work on Debian as before
(yes, others will hate me for writing this again) because of this.
Some
Le mercredi 11 octobre 2006 09:05, Martin Schulze a écrit :
Jérôme Marant wrote:
Le lundi 09 octobre 2006 18:54, Martin Schulze a écrit :
hard on getting Debian better be funded similarily? I know that
several people have lost their motivation to work on Debian as before
(yes,
Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
Huh? I hate to be the one to break it to you, but many things life
boil down to a question of time or money.
* Do I mow my lawn (time) or hire someone to do it (money)?
* Do I was my car (time) or hire someone to do it (money)?
* Do I program my own OS (time) or
Jérôme Marant wrote:
hard on getting Debian better be funded similarily? I know that
several people have lost their motivation to work on Debian as before
(yes, others will hate me for writing this again) because of this.
Some developers ask themselves already why they should work
On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 10:16:07AM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote:
Jérôme Marant wrote:
hard on getting Debian better be funded similarily? I know that
several people have lost their motivation to work on Debian as before
(yes, others will hate me for writing this again) because of
Le mercredi 11 octobre 2006 10:16, vous avez écrit :
It's not Dunc Tank's fault if your jealous.
Hmm, maybe it is because the developer is jealous on/of somebody
being directly or indirectly paid by the project while they are
not?
My personal belief is that being jealous is wrong.
If
Le mercredi 11 octobre 2006 10:30, vous avez écrit :
Hmm, maybe it is because the developer is jealous on/of somebody
being directly or indirectly paid by the project while they are
not?
Which is why the paiement should have come from the debian funds. It would
have been order's of
Roberto C. Sanchez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...] Person A gets mad becuase he is afraid that person B will will
get pay for something that both had originally agreed to do for free.
Now there's a key part of the problem: this changes agreements that some
developers made with the debian
On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 09:58:45AM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote:
Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
Huh? I hate to be the one to break it to you, but many things life
boil down to a question of time or money.
* Do I mow my lawn (time) or hire someone to do it (money)?
* Do I was my car (time)
Jérôme Marant wrote:
It's not Dunc Tank's fault if your jealous.
Hmm, maybe it is because the developer is jealous on/of somebody
being directly or indirectly paid by the project while they are
not?
My personal belief is that being jealous is wrong.
Many people consider
Le mercredi 11 octobre 2006 01:52, Stephen Gran a écrit :
This one time, at band camp, Thibaut VARENE said:
It's obvious giving money will affect someone's behaviour (allowing
him/her to work full time on a project, for instance). And as action
induces reaction, the moment there's someone
On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 10:09:06AM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
Roberto C. Sanchez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...] Person A gets mad becuase he is afraid that person B will will
get pay for something that both had originally agreed to do for free.
Now there's a key part of the problem: this
On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 11:54:46PM +, Bill Allombert wrote:
On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 12:34:01PM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
The set of projects that can be funded are projects proposed by Debian
developers. I expect Debian developers to propose only projects that are
improving Debian.
Martin Schulze, 2006-10-11 10:10:15 +0200 :
Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
Huh? I hate to be the one to break it to you, but many things life
boil down to a question of time or money.
* Do I mow my lawn (time) or hire someone to do it (money)?
* Do I was my car (time) or hire someone to do it
Hi,
Jérôme Marant schrieb:
My personal belief is that being jealous is wrong.
This may be morally true.
But humans are not morally perfect.
They are corrupted easily, as a matter of fact.
The greatest corruptors are money and power.
Best wishes
Michael Kallas
--
Nobody can save your freedom
Raphael Hertzog writes (Re: Using money to fund real Debian work):
But if the structure is open to everyone, then everybody has a
chance to request funding.
This is precisely what is wrong with funding the RMs, and what makes
it different from funding some particular package development
Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 09:58:45AM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote:
Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
Huh? I hate to be the one to break it to you, but many things life
boil down to a question of time or money.
* Do I mow my lawn (time) or hire someone to do it
On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 10:15:00PM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote:
Yet, if you are able to make Debian your client, then you can do that
which you enjoy *and* get paid for it. With my list, I was trying to
That would involve taking over the person of either Andreas Barth or
Steve Langasek. I
Ian Jackson, 2006-10-11 21:10:12 +0200 :
This is quite different from the case with a programming task: if I
decide I can do some D-I work that needs doing better than the D-I
maintainers, I can just do it, and if my pet benefactor agrees with
me, I can get paid to do it and the result _will_
Roberto C. Sanchez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...] I would submit that people who
consider quitting or actually quit over something like that probably
have other issues to deal with.
Can we leave the sanity attacks out of it, please? It's unhelpful to
suggest that all the people with concerns
On 10/8/06, Raphael Hertzog [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is not related:
- known developers are not necessarily bad developers
- technically good developers are not necessarily unknown
These are extremely bold assumptions, stated as if they were facts. Cunning.
And here comes the well known
On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 09:40:40AM +0200, Thibaut VARENE wrote:
On 10/8/06, Raphael Hertzog [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is not related:
- known developers are not necessarily bad developers
- technically good developers are not necessarily unknown
These are extremely bold assumptions,
Le lundi 09 octobre 2006 18:54, Martin Schulze a écrit :
hard on getting Debian better be funded similarily? I know that
several people have lost their motivation to work on Debian as before
(yes, others will hate me for writing this again) because of this.
Some developers ask themselves
On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 12:00:12AM +0200, Jérôme Marant wrote:
Le lundi 09 octobre 2006 18:54, Martin Schulze a écrit :
hard on getting Debian better be funded similarily? I know that
several people have lost their motivation to work on Debian as before
(yes, others will hate me for
On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 08:37:32AM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
Roberto C. Sanchez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...] I would submit that people who
consider quitting or actually quit over something like that probably
have other issues to deal with.
Can we leave the sanity attacks out of it, please?
On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 09:40:40AM +0200, Thibaut VARENE wrote:
In my view, if I were involved in a given project, giving it a good
part of my free (unpaid) time, and I were to see some other guy
working on this very same project doing the same work I'm doing, I
guess I wouldn't feel
MJ Ray schrieb:
Can we leave the sanity attacks out of it, please? It's unhelpful to
suggest that all the people with concerns about this experiment have
personality problems.
Are the attacks on people because there are no good answers to the
concerns of Martin Schulze and others?
From
On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 09:22:04PM -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
[...]
The strange thing is that while I see lots of discussion about why
people should or should not be allowed to fund particular developers to
do particular things, I don't see any similar discussion about why
people should
On Mon, Oct 09, 2006 at 01:14:05PM -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
[...]
Would I love to get paid to my work on Debian? Sure, who wouldn't?
But, is it going to make me quit if someone else working on something
for Debian gets paid to do it? Nope. I would submit that people who
consider
On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 08:50:39PM +0200, Denis Barbier wrote:
On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 09:22:04PM -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
[...]
The strange thing is that while I see lots of discussion about why
people should or should not be allowed to fund particular developers to
do particular
On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 03:53:34PM -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 08:50:39PM +0200, Denis Barbier wrote:
On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 09:22:04PM -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
[...]
The strange thing is that while I see lots of discussion about why
people should
On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 10:14:16PM +0200, Denis Barbier wrote:
Program runs successfully here after dropping the 'assert (tine ==
money);'
statement.
Huh? I hate to be the one to break it to you, but many things life
boil down to a question of time or money.
Re-read my
Denis Barbier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In the introduction of our Constitution:
The Debian Project is an association of individuals who have made
common cause to create a free operating system[*].
I first did not notice the footnote
[*] ... and find a job in the IT industry.
My
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Thibaut VARENE wrote:
It's obvious giving money will affect someone's behaviour (allowing
him/her to work full time on a project, for instance). And as action
induces reaction, the moment there's someone which is given money,
there will be two class of peoples: the ones
This one time, at band camp, Denis Barbier said:
On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 03:53:34PM -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 08:50:39PM +0200, Denis Barbier wrote:
On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 09:22:04PM -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez
wrote: [...]
The strange thing is that while
This one time, at band camp, Thibaut VARENE said:
It's obvious giving money will affect someone's behaviour (allowing
him/her to work full time on a project, for instance). And as action
induces reaction, the moment there's someone which is given money,
there will be two class of peoples: the
Raphael Hertzog wrote:
[ Continuing publicly a discussion started in -private, with the agreement
of Pierre ]
The discussion concerns the use of money as a resource within Debian.
Dunc-Tank's principle is to use the money to pay for real work and not
only for travel expenses and
On Mon, Oct 09, 2006 at 06:54:09PM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote:
When money is involved the project changes. Developers will have to
ask why devel 1 is paid but not devel 2? Is devel 2 not doing good
work? Will it work for devel 1 if they work more on Debian so get
paid as well? Why does
[ Continuing publicly a discussion started in -private, with the agreement
of Pierre ]
The discussion concerns the use of money as a resource within Debian.
Dunc-Tank's principle is to use the money to pay for real work and not
only for travel expenses and reimbursments. This principle is too new
Le dim 8 octobre 2006 12:34, Raphael Hertzog a écrit :
In the worst scenario, the sponsor will be disappointed and will not
give money any more. But if the rules are clear from the beginning,
it's only fair.
it's not true. If the sponsoree well-beeing (because he tries to live
from that)
On Sun, 08 Oct 2006, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
Le dim 8 octobre 2006 12:34, Raphael Hertzog a écrit :
In the worst scenario, the sponsor will be disappointed and will not
give money any more. But if the rules are clear from the beginning,
it's only fair.
it's not true. If the sponsoree
Le dim 8 octobre 2006 14:18, Raphael Hertzog a écrit :
And if the comments associated to the project proposal indicate that
there's some controversy in the idea behind the project, then the
donor would be aware that there's a risk that the stuff doesn't get
integrated into Debian proper.
This one time, at band camp, Pierre Habouzit said:
Le dim 8 octobre 2006 14:18, Raphael Hertzog a écrit :
And if the comments associated to the project proposal indicate that
there's some controversy in the idea behind the project, then the
donor would be aware that there's a risk that the
Le dim 8 octobre 2006 15:36, Stephen Gran a écrit :
This one time, at band camp, Pierre Habouzit said:
Le dim 8 octobre 2006 14:18, Raphael Hertzog a écrit :
And if the comments associated to the project proposal indicate
that there's some controversy in the idea behind the project,
[mostly reposting what I sent to debian-private]
On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 12:34:01PM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
I also explained that Dunc-Tank's initial experiment of funding release
manager is not a long term model for us. And as a board member, I said
that I don't intend to fund other
On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 12:34:01PM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
The set of projects that can be funded are projects proposed by Debian
developers. I expect Debian developers to propose only projects that are
improving Debian.
If some of those projects also serve the private interest of
On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 11:54:46PM +, Bill Allombert wrote:
This means that someone with a lot of money will be able to decide which
projects will be completed just be funding them. Other projects will not
be completed because people will lack time and incentive even if these
projects
Bill Allombert [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
This means that someone with a lot of money will be able to decide which
projects will be completed just be funding them. Other projects will not
be completed because people will lack time and incentive even if these
projects would improve Debian more.
On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 11:54:46PM +, Bill Allombert wrote:
This means that someone with a lot of money will be able to decide which
projects will be completed just be funding them. Other projects will not
be completed because people will lack time and incentive even if these
projects
On Sunday 08 October 2006 19:56, Daniel Jacobowitz wrote:
On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 11:54:46PM +, Bill Allombert wrote:
This means that someone with a lot of money will be able to decide which
projects will be completed just be funding them. Other projects will not
be completed because
On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 08:45:22PM -0700, Mike Bird wrote:
On Sunday 08 October 2006 19:56, Daniel Jacobowitz wrote:
In my opinion, this is exactly the same as:
This means that someone with a lot of time will be able to decide which
projects will be completed just by doing them. Other
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