On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 11:24:27AM -0400, Steve Langasek wrote:
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 04:27:01PM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote:
I would rather not complicate the CD+DVD building process even more to
produce non-free images. There are so many images that need to be
created already.
I
* Kurt Roeckx k...@roeckx.be [2010-05-24 16:43:23 CEST]:
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 02:13:30PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
Yup, definitely. We already have an unofficial non-free area on
cdimage.debian.org which is where we've been pushing the firmware
zip/tar.gz files already. I'll set up
Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
[Steve McIntyre]
Yup, definitely. We already have an unofficial non-free area on
cdimage.debian.org which is where we've been pushing the firmware
zip/tar.gz files already. I'll set up the extra images to be dropped
in there.
A few days ago, I extended
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 11:33:11AM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
Early on in this thread [1] I've tried to identify our options, which
essentially boil down to:
1) have the non-free firmware on the (first) install media, protected
by a BIG FAT WARNING saying that you need non-free firmware
[Steve McIntyre]
Yup, definitely. We already have an unofficial non-free area on
cdimage.debian.org which is where we've been pushing the firmware
zip/tar.gz files already. I'll set up the extra images to be dropped
in there.
A few days ago, I extended hw-detect to look for firmware (u)debs
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 02:13:30PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
Yup, definitely. We already have an unofficial non-free area on
cdimage.debian.org which is where we've been pushing the firmware
zip/tar.gz files already. I'll set up the extra images to be dropped
in there.
It would be nice if
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 03:58:35PM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
[Steve McIntyre]
Yup, definitely. We already have an unofficial non-free area on
cdimage.debian.org which is where we've been pushing the firmware
zip/tar.gz files already. I'll set up the extra images to be dropped
in
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 04:43:23PM +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 02:13:30PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
Yup, definitely. We already have an unofficial non-free area on
cdimage.debian.org which is where we've been pushing the firmware
zip/tar.gz files already. I'll set up
Steve McIntyre schrieb am Monday, den 24. May 2010:
Hi,
*snip*
I'm guessing that we're not likely to want the extra images for all
architectures: i386/amd64/powerpc(?). Any others?
I have no idea. I only use i386 and amd64. :)
Quite. Anybody else?
I think we should also include ppc,
On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 06:29:55PM +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
So I was wondering what the state is of everything, and what
issues people will run into, specially when installing.
So, let me try to wrap-up this discussion. I've gather some info from
Ben Hutchings (thanks!) on the actual impact on
Bernd Zeimetz dijo [Sun, May 09, 2010 at 09:01:55PM +0200]:
I’ve never had trouble with such hardware. You can plug a virtual USB
device with a hd-media boot image, and put the firmwares on the same
image.
Right. It works, but it is an annoying extra step to do. And I had more than
one
Tollef Fog Heen dijo [Thu, May 13, 2010 at 08:04:43AM +0200]:
]] Martin Schulze
| I'm sure these modern systems do have USB connectors.
It's quite inconvenient to plug USB sticks into machines which are on
the other side of the Atlantic ocean.
It is quite convenient to get free tickets
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 04:27:01PM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote:
I would rather not complicate the CD+DVD building process even more to
produce non-free images. There are so many images that need to be
created already.
I would like us to provide non-free firmware blobs that may be
required
On Sat, 2010-05-15 at 11:24 -0400, Steve Langasek wrote:
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 04:27:01PM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote:
I would rather not complicate the CD+DVD building process even more to
produce non-free images. There are so many images that need to be
created already.
I would
On 05/12/2010 09:41 PM, Martin Schulze wrote:
Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
On 05/12/2010 04:27 PM, Martin Schulze wrote:
I would like us to provide non-free firmware blobs that may be
required during installation in tarballs that can be downloaded or -
Downloading is exactly the problem. A lot of
On 05/13/2010 04:18 AM, Paul Wise wrote:
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Bernd Zeimetz be...@bzed.de wrote:
Using only 'free' software might make them happier, but the first thing
people
look for is less pain in the ass while installing and maintaining a system.
We
are not in a perfect
]] Martin Schulze
| I'm sure these modern systems do have USB connectors.
It's quite inconvenient to plug USB sticks into machines which are on
the other side of the Atlantic ocean.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email
]] Paul Wise
| Based on these factors I would consider it appropriate to ship two
| copies of the install media, at least while we have non-free and SC
| #5.
I can't speak for everybody else, but for me, it'd be sufficient to have
this support in the d-i images since I tend to either use the
On 05/10/2010 08:33 AM, Holger Levsen wrote:
Hi,
On Freitag, 7. Mai 2010, Paul Wise wrote:
What makes it problematic to modify the install media (initrd I guess)
you downloaded and add the firmware?
For quite some people it's very difficult (hi bro!), for some it's impossible
(hi dad!)
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 01:04:47PM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
On 05/10/2010 01:50 AM, Paul Wise wrote:
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 3:01 AM, Bernd Zeimetz be...@bzed.de wrote:
Right. It works, but it is an annoying extra step to do. And I had more
than one
customer asking me why Debian is
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 01:05:19PM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
On 05/10/2010 08:33 AM, Holger Levsen wrote:
Hi,
On Freitag, 7. Mai 2010, Paul Wise wrote:
What makes it problematic to modify the install media (initrd I guess)
you downloaded and add the firmware?
For quite some
On 05/12/2010 04:27 PM, Martin Schulze wrote:
I would rather not complicate the CD+DVD building process even more to
produce non-free images. There are so many images that need to be
created already.
And? Creating a full set of images takes 2 hours (if I remember right) now.
Also we don't
Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
On 05/12/2010 04:27 PM, Martin Schulze wrote:
I would like us to provide non-free firmware blobs that may be
required during installation in tarballs that can be downloaded or -
Downloading is exactly the problem. A lot of modern enterprise network
hardware (like the
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 04:27:01PM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote:
I would like us to provide non-free firmware blobs that may be
required during installation in tarballs that can be downloaded or -
if this is not possible - be loaded via USB sticks, floppies or
cdroms.
I thought this was
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 3:41 AM, Martin Schulze j...@infodrom.org wrote:
I'm sure these modern systems do have USB connectors.
They do have USB, according to advocates of shipping the non-free
firmware in our install media, the problem is when installing remotely
you don't have access to these
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Bernd Zeimetz be...@bzed.de wrote:
Using only 'free' software might make them happier, but the first thing people
look for is less pain in the ass while installing and maintaining a system. We
are not in a perfect world unfortunately, so blaming the hardware
Hi,
On Freitag, 7. Mai 2010, Paul Wise wrote:
What makes it problematic to modify the install media (initrd I guess)
you downloaded and add the firmware?
For quite some people it's very difficult (hi bro!), for some it's impossible
(hi dad!) and for most of the rest it's a PITA (hi me!). And,
On 05/06/2010 07:22 PM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 11:26:55PM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
I can't see a reason why we should not be able to ship cd-images in
non-free.
What do you exactly mean by that?
I can imagine at least two different interpretations of it:
1)
On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 10:59:57AM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
On 05/06/2010 07:22 PM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
2) Having the non-free firmware in the regular CD image sets; firmware
which is not loaded by default, but that can be selectively enabled
by the user, pretty much as users
On 05/07/2010 12:02 PM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le vendredi 07 mai 2010 à 09:49 +0800, Paul Wise a écrit :
So the problem only occurs when installing on a host you don't have
physical access to and which requires non-free firmware blobs to
access the network? Does it occur in any other
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 3:01 AM, Bernd Zeimetz be...@bzed.de wrote:
Right. It works, but it is an annoying extra step to do. And I had more than
one
customer asking me why Debian is forcing them to do such an extra step and why
they should not just use Ubuntu.
Tell them to blame their
On jeu., 2010-05-06 at 21:16 -0500, Raphael Geissert wrote:
Josselin Mouette wrote:
If there really was a need for it, such images would already exist.
They do already exist and are labelled *Ubuntu.
That's what people end up trying and installing after they waste their time
installing
On Fri, May 07, 2010 at 08:33:24AM +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:
On jeu., 2010-05-06 at 21:16 -0500, Raphael Geissert wrote:
Josselin Mouette wrote:
If there really was a need for it, such images would already exist.
They do already exist and are labelled *Ubuntu.
That's what
Le vendredi 07 mai 2010 à 09:49 +0800, Paul Wise a écrit :
So the problem only occurs when installing on a host you don't have
physical access to and which requires non-free firmware blobs to
access the network? Does it occur in any other situation?
I've never had to do such a thing, what is
On jeu., 2010-05-06 at 09:15 +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
I recently had to install Debian lenny on a HP ProLiant machine, which
required bnx2 firmware for the network controller. Just downloaded the
firmware .deb from packages.d.o, stuck it on a FAT32 formatted USB
stick and everything worked
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Yves-Alexis Perez kirjoitti:
On jeu., 2010-05-06 at 09:15 +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
I recently had to install Debian lenny on a HP ProLiant machine, which
required bnx2 firmware for the network controller. Just downloaded the
firmware .deb from
]] Arto Jantunen
| Peter Palfrader wea...@debian.org writes:
|
| On Wed, 05 May 2010, Arto Jantunen wrote:
| Seriously speaking, to me it seems very clear that non-free firmware
| will not be present on official installer images. Then again, the
| installer team has made it very easy to
[Tollef Fog Heen]
It's not uncommon to install machines you are not physically close to
and where plugging in hardware is therefore hard, so having it on the
install media already is quite useful.
Yes. It would allow one to create ones own installation CD with
firmware included, and get the
On 06/05/2010 11:59, Tapio Lehtonen wrote:
How does the user know, which firmware he/she is going to need? It is doable
to
have the files on usb-stick or some such, if it is known which files need to
be
there.
Note that firwmare.tar.gz contains quite a lot of firmwares. And, afair,
the
p...@debian.org wrote:
I'm also wondering what people think about adding some firmware
to our official installation media.
I don't think it is needed.
I do.
I recently had to install Debian lenny on a HP ProLiant machine, which
required bnx2 firmware for the network controller. Just downloaded
On 2010-05-05, Bernd Zeimetz be...@bzed.de wrote:
This is still an annoying thing to handle. If you install machines at
different
locations regulary, this firmware crap is nothing but a pita. I can't see a
reason why we should not be able to ship cd-images in non-free.
I fully concur.
On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 11:26:55PM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
I can't see a reason why we should not be able to ship cd-images in
non-free.
What do you exactly mean by that?
I can imagine at least two different interpretations of it:
1) Having different CD image sets: some sets containing
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Marco d'Itri m...@linux.it wrote:
Now try again, this time netinstalling an IBM Bladecenter with modern
blades like HS21 or HS2.
To which you have no physical access because it is in a different city.
So the problem only occurs when installing on a host you
Josselin Mouette wrote:
If there really was a need for it, such images would already exist.
They do already exist and are labelled *Ubuntu.
That's what people end up trying and installing after they waste their time
installing Debian just to see that their wireless and/or ethernet card
Hi,
It seems the kernel team has moved alot of firmware to non-free,
which means that more people will need to use pieces from non-free
to be able to use their computer.
So I was wondering what the state is of everything, and what
issues people will run into, specially when installing.
I'm also
Kurt Roeckx k...@roeckx.be writes:
It seems the kernel team has moved alot of firmware to non-free,
which means that more people will need to use pieces from non-free
to be able to use their computer.
So I was wondering what the state is of everything, and what
issues people will run into,
On Wed, 05 May 2010, Arto Jantunen wrote:
Kurt Roeckx k...@roeckx.be writes:
It seems the kernel team has moved alot of firmware to non-free,
which means that more people will need to use pieces from non-free
to be able to use their computer.
So I was wondering what the state is of
Peter Palfrader wea...@debian.org writes:
On Wed, 05 May 2010, Arto Jantunen wrote:
Seriously speaking, to me it seems very clear that non-free firmware
will not be present on official installer images. Then again, the
installer team has made it very easy to inject firmware during
On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 09:57:46PM +0300, Arto Jantunen wrote:
Hmm. Is the release already so close that it's time to have this
flamewar again? Shouldn't we wait a month or two for maximal effect?
I think the earlier we have this discussion the better.
Seriously speaking, to me it seems
Kurt Roeckx k...@roeckx.be writes:
I've heard people complain about how the (lenny?) installer works,
and I didn't have the need to install on a machine that requires
firmware yet myself. I think the issues I've heard were:
- You need 2 installation media. Which also makes an unattended
On 05/05/2010 09:24 PM, Arto Jantunen wrote:
I understood that current Debian Installer takes firmware during
install via usb sticks, floppies, etc. If this is not the case, I have
understood incorrectly and take back my comment on it being made
easy. I am fairly sure that the feature has
On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 11:26:55PM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
This is still an annoying thing to handle. If you install machines at
different
locations regulary, this firmware crap is nothing but a pita. I can't see a
reason why we should not be able to ship cd-images in non-free. If debian
Le mercredi 05 mai 2010 à 23:26 +0200, Bernd Zeimetz a écrit :
This is still an annoying thing to handle. If you install machines at
different
locations regulary, this firmware crap is nothing but a pita. I can't see a
reason why we should not be able to ship cd-images in non-free.
Indeed,
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 12:29 AM, Kurt Roeckx k...@roeckx.be wrote:
So I was wondering what the state is of everything, and what
issues people will run into, specially when installing.
The lenny installer is fine, I haven't tested the squeeze installer yet though.
I'm also wondering what
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