Your thinking of the personal user, which isn't Linux's
strongsuit right now. Corporate customers are looking at the
Calderas and RedHatters of the Linux distributions. Without
commercial support, they won't even bother to *look* at Debian.
Without the attention of the corporate world,
fockface dickmeat wrote:
Your thinking of the personal user, which isn't Linux's
strongsuit right now. Corporate customers are looking at the
Calderas and RedHatters of the Linux distributions. Without
commercial support, they won't even bother to *look* at Debian.
Without the
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Frankie wrote:
) Obviously recommending debian to colleagues/associates/friends
) sticking a debian logo on your website
) pestering major sites to display a debian logo
) Making sure that articles are written for stuff like
slashdot/32bitsonline
But TECO was the greatest, most programmable, powerful editor ever. If
only
it had run on a *NIX OS :-(
-
I remember when working at DEC being told that teco was more than an
editor, it was a language. Infact someone had written a StarTrek
Ed Cogburn wrote:
Frankie wrote:
snip
You are perhaps referring the Linux Standard Base that RH and
Deb have, for the moment, agreed to? The problem is that the
greater RH's dominance becomes, the greater the chance that they
will no longer see this kind of cooperation
On Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 05:13 (-0800), Kenneth Scharf wrote:
But TECO was the greatest, most programmable, powerful editor ever. If
only
it had run on a *NIX OS :-(
-
I remember when working at DEC being told that teco was more than an
Kenneth Scharf writes:
I remember when working at DEC being told that teco was more than an
editor, it was a language. Infact someone had written a StarTrek game in
teco.
And some guy at MIT wrote a text editor in TECO...
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
And some guy at MIT wrote a text editor in TECO...
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
-
Opps, yeah that's right. The ORIGINAL Emacs was written in Teco. RMS
must be more talented that I thought.
mike shupp wrote:
On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Ed Cogburn wrote:
Like George Bonser has said previously, I think the only way that
Debian is going to grow its market share better than its currently
growing is for the creation of a commercial company which adopts
Debian as its base
I'm going to start a co that builds cheap boxen with debian. I have what
I believe a creative marketing scheme. My target market is mid to low
income families.
Contact me if you have an interest. I'm ready for some serious
planning/implementation.
NatePuri
Certified Law Student
Debian
On Sun, Feb 28, 1999 at 12:44:20PM +, Mark Brown wrote:
Try Emacs or XEmacs. Don't be mislead by the fact that they call Emacs
an editor - it's far, far more than a mere editor. It has support for
^
This is an excellent summary of why you
Hamish Moffatt wrote:
On Sun, Feb 28, 1999 at 12:44:20PM +, Mark Brown wrote:
Try Emacs or XEmacs. Don't be mislead by the fact that they call Emacs
an editor - it's far, far more than a mere editor. It has support for
^
This is an
Ed Cogburn wrote:
Hamish Moffatt wrote:
On Sun, Feb 28, 1999 at 12:44:20PM +, Mark Brown wrote:
Try Emacs or XEmacs. Don't be mislead by the fact that they call Emacs
an editor - it's far, far more than a mere editor. It has support for
Ralph Winslow writes:
But TECO was the greatest, most programmable, powerful editor ever. If
only it had run on a *NIX OS :-(
I believe I recall once reading of a Linux port (or clone) of TECO.
Personally, I've done my best to suppress all my memories of it.
--
John HaslerThis
On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Ed Cogburn wrote:
I dunno. There's a lot of people who would like to find out about
Linux, but aren't prepared to bet the whole farm on it sight unseen.
Without advertising, how are we supposed to get to these
prospective customers before RH does?
Advertising is
Frankie wrote:
snip
You are perhaps referring the Linux Standard Base that RH and
Deb have, for the moment, agreed to? The problem is that the
greater RH's dominance becomes, the greater the chance that they
will no longer see this kind of cooperation as desirable, and in
On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Ed Cogburn wrote:
Like George Bonser has said previously, I think the only way that
Debian is going to grow its market share better than its currently
growing is for the creation of a commercial company which adopts
Debian as its base distribution. This company can
Wayne Cuddy wrote:
If there is one feature that I would LOVE to see in dselect it would be to
save all the packages I have selected and allow my to load the selection on a
new system so I don't have to do it everytime. Maybe this feature is already
there and I don't know about it...
snip
You are perhaps referring the Linux Standard Base that RH and
Deb have, for the moment, agreed to? The problem is that the
greater RH's dominance becomes, the greater the chance that they
will no longer see this kind of cooperation as desirable, and in
effect decide on their own
On Sun, 28 Feb 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 28-Feb-99, Mark Brown took time to write :
3) No documentation on how to load/use the original programs that loaded
when installing. That is, can I load again the program that allowed me to
Hmm... This problem seems to apply to all the
Ed Cogburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Christian Kurz wrote:
Mark Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sun, Feb 28, 1999 at 08:36:38PM +1000, Peter Ludwig wrote:
Now, I have a few problems with it.
1) No IDE for the compiler.
Try Emacs or XEmacs. Don't be mislead by the fact
http://www.userfriendly.org/static/
Bob Nielsen Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tucson, AZ AMPRnet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
DM42nh http://www.primenet.com/~nielsen
of them becoming developers, Deb's weaknesses such as the install
problems will be addressed as well (am I the only one who likes
dselect? :-) ).
While dselect does have an odd interface, I definitely like it. I can see
the original author's motive for force-feeding help screens, which
Peter Ludwig wrote:
snip
January 1999 have net account will download!
At the beginning of the year I'd gotten very bored with everything and
decided to attempt to download and install debian off the net. This time
things went great. To summarize the good points I have found with debian
:-
If there is one feature that I would LOVE to see in dselect it would be to
save all the packages I have selected and allow my to load the selection on a
new system so I don't have to do it everytime. Maybe this feature is already
there and I don't know about it...
Wayne
On Mon, 1 Mar 1999,
On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Wayne Cuddy wrote:
If there is one feature that I would LOVE to see in dselect it would be
to save all the packages I have selected and allow my to load the
selection on a new system so I don't have to do it everytime. Maybe
this feature is already there and I don't know
On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Tom Pfeifer wrote:
Ed Cogburn wrote:
As Deb becomes bigger, attracting more users, with some
of them becoming developers, Deb's weaknesses such as the install
problems will be addressed as well (am I the only one who likes
dselect? :-) ).
No, there's at least
Ed Cogburn wrote:
As Deb becomes bigger, attracting more users, with some
of them becoming developers, Deb's weaknesses such as the install
problems will be addressed as well (am I the only one who likes
dselect? :-) ).
No, there's at least two of us :-) I think dselect, especially in
Hello,
Several years ago , I said that debian should use some of the tools of
marketing to increase the potential universe of users awareness of
debian. i received such flack that i realized that there was a
political bent in many free software users that was anti marketing or
maybe were totally
I think dselect, especially in
combination with the apt access method, is terrific - it just takes some
time upfront to get used to it.
Many people switching to Linux from the 'Other ' OS may equate spending time
to learn an install package, with difficulty of use and/or other nameless
On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, P Asokan wrote:
It appears to me dselect is more a sysadmin's install tool. Even Yast looks
a little easier. for my $0.02 i would strongly suggest ywo install programs
a simpleone with less choices and another for the more adventurous.
It's an interesting thought. The
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] you write:
I think dselect, especially in
combination with the apt access method, is terrific - it just takes some
time upfront to get used to it.
Many people switching to Linux from the 'Other ' OS may equate spending time
to learn an install package, with difficulty
Also, I think Red Hat is a linux virgin distrib -- first time Linux
users have probably only heard of Red Hat, and a lot of people feel
the Red Hat installation is easier. Same way with me when I started,
but I had only heard of Slackware. Once I knew more about Unix
administration and the
On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, P Asokan wrote:
If I want to write an install program, whom do I get in touch? I do know C
fairly well and I would give this a crack. Will someone point me to areas of
study, persons to contact?
There is already a big plan for this, you might start with:
Subject: Re: Debian and Redhat - are most linux users missing the point?
Date: Sun, Feb 28, 1999 at 01:47:38PM +1100
In reply to:Brian May
Quoting Brian May([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] you write:
I think dselect, especially in
combination with the apt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
It seem that dselect and apt-get must use two different Package lists.
Right.
I would have expected them to use the same one as they both use dpkg.
There's various levels to dpkg - apt just uses it to install packages,
dselect uses it to manage the available file
Wasn't gonna do it, but what the hell...
_My Linux Story_
In 1994, after learning of it from a friend, I purchased a 4 disk set
of Linux CDs from Infomagic. I soon threw in the towel in
frustration, never getting my proprietary cdrom hardware and that
On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Frankie wrote:
snip
OK, so the two leading distros are redhat and debian. debian, on the one
hand, is run as a voluntary organisation etc, whereas redhat is (or is going
the way of) a corporation, in the sense that it employs programmers, is very
far ahead of any of the
On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, George Bonser wrote:
snip
I am not sure how gaining market share improves Debian. I think you could
say that Debian is better than Red Hat for servers. In other words, get
the message over that Red Hat might be easier for the single-user desktop
but Debian is the proper
I've just gotten my mail down, so sorry for the lateness of this :)
A Short Linux History (by me)
In 1992/3 I was looking at getting myself a new operating system, well
after chatting to a couple of friends, I heard about debian linux, now
I hadn't heard of linux before so when I found it was a
On Sun, Feb 28, 1999 at 08:36:38PM +1000, Peter Ludwig wrote:
Now, I have a few problems with it.
1) No IDE for the compiler.
Try Emacs or XEmacs. Don't be mislead by the fact that they call Emacs
an editor - it's far, far more than a mere editor. It has support for
compilation and
On 28-Feb-99, Mark Brown took time to write :
3) No documentation on how to load/use the original programs that loaded
when installing. That is, can I load again the program that allowed me to
Hmm... This problem seems to apply to all the distributions I've tried.
They have a nice menu
Mark Brown wrote:
On Sun, Feb 28, 1999 at 08:36:38PM +1000, Peter Ludwig wrote:
Now, I have a few problems with it.
1) No IDE for the compiler.
Try Emacs or XEmacs. Don't be mislead by the fact that they call Emacs
an editor - it's far, far more than a mere editor. It has support
Mark Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sun, Feb 28, 1999 at 08:36:38PM +1000, Peter Ludwig wrote:
Now, I have a few problems with it.
1) No IDE for the compiler.
Try Emacs or XEmacs. Don't be mislead by the fact that they call Emacs
an editor - it's far, far more than a mere editor. It
George Bonser wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Ed Cogburn wrote:
In other words, the value is the process and not the content.
What do mean by content here? The software?
I'm saying the 'process' has been positively influenced by the
'politics' (the Social Contract is
Christian Kurz wrote:
Mark Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sun, Feb 28, 1999 at 08:36:38PM +1000, Peter Ludwig wrote:
Now, I have a few problems with it.
1) No IDE for the compiler.
Try Emacs or XEmacs. Don't be mislead by the fact that they call Emacs
an editor - it's far,
On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, George Bonser wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, King Lee wrote:
Sorry, bad choice of words. I hope that if debian gains market share
Red Hat may not be so dominant.
Well, I am not sure that Red Hat being so dominant is anything Debian can
change unless they want to
On Sun, Feb 28, 1999 at 03:44:55PM +0100, Christian Kurz wrote:
Mark Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sun, Feb 28, 1999 at 08:36:38PM +1000, Peter Ludwig wrote:
1) No IDE for the compiler.
Try Emacs or XEmacs. Don't be mislead by the fact that they call Emacs
Hm, but there are people,
Were you a Linux user back when Slackware (or SLS) was the ONLY
distribution? Corel has now announced that they are going to produce
their own distribution. That might put a bit of a hurt on Red Hat.
Has anyone suggested to Corel, that they base their new distribution on
Debian?
Cheers,
I don't know where to post this to, but this seemed as good a place as any.
This is not a Debian vs Redhat flame war email, so please do not treat this
posting like that.
A couple of weeks ago there was a poll, which showed that redhat hat had
about 2 or three times as many users as debian, and
Further to my previous posting:
I have just found this article:
http://www.zdnet.com/devhead/stories/articles/0,4413,2217609,00.html
Is it any wonder redhat are number one when they can find people to write
articles like this?
frankie
On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Frankie wrote:
On the basis that linux is soundly based on ideology and a belief that the
internet should remain free, debian may well be the best distribution, and
on that basis, redhat the worst.
Just for perspective: Red Hat is by far the best commercial
OK, so the two leading distros are redhat and debian. debian, on the one
hand, is run as a voluntary organisation etc, whereas redhat is (or is going
the way of) a corporation, in the sense that it employs programmers, is very
far ahead of any of the competition and (arguably although I
Subject: Debian and Redhat - are most linux users missing the point?
Date: Sat, Feb 27, 1999 at 03:54:04AM -
In reply to:Frankie
Quoting Frankie([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
I don't know where to post this to, but this seemed as good a place as any.
This is not a Debian vs Redhat
We need, to work on the install. Debian is so awesome. Yet, will not be
noticed by the masses unless the install method becomes better than RH.
RH's method is open sourced. So there should be a way for debian to make
it better.
I'm willing to participate in a marketing effort. Such an
Paul Nathan Puri wrote:
We need, to work on the install. Debian is so awesome. Yet, will not be
noticed by the masses unless the install method becomes better than RH.
RH's method is open sourced. So there should be a way for debian to make
it better.
I'm willing to participate in a
Now I may be wrong, but I believe that many (if not the majority) of
linux users are attracted to linux because its free, and because it is
symbolic of the backlash against the large corporation ethos of many of
its competitors, rather than its reliability (let alone it's ease of use
Geoffrey Deasey KD4WVF [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think that the main reason for redhats success in numbers has more to
do with the installation program. Many of us can peice together
a broken install and get it working. But we are now venturing into
a different and larger world. We
I have now finally figured out the main issues (for me) concerning the Linux
install-and-get-it-running problem. Through all this, It (Linux) has simply
verified what I have always suspicioned. That is:
Bill Gates is similar to a drug dealer.
He got everyone hooked on windows, and we now must
On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Nathan O. Siemers wrote:
I strongly agree. I have personal convictions that debian is
the higher quality dist, but I cannot reccomend it to the corporation
I work for simply because of the install process and dselect issues.
The install is actually quite easy in
I don't think Debian has to be the number one distribution in order to
be successful. Any growth in Linux use, no matter what the distribution,
is good for the whole community.
It is important to understand the developer/user relationship is, or
should, be different in a volunteer structure than
Tommy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
One last thing I think it is unfortunate that Debian is know as the
geekiest distribution of a geek os. I have no CS backround but, I
downloaded 0.93 from the net and have used Debian ever since, except the
time when my ex girlfriend took my computer. I have
George Bonser wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Frankie wrote:
A couple of weeks ago there was a poll, which showed that redhat hat had
about 2 or three times as many users as debian, and that redhat was first
with debian was second, but far closer to the other distros than to redhat.
At 11:51 PM 2/26/99 -0500, Geoffrey Deasey KD4WVF wrote:
We are attracting windows users and they
come to us with no linux experience. I tryed
debian a while ago snip and became so
frustrated with dselect that I gave up twice.
Exactly true. I used apt-get to install Slink and believe apt-get is
They easiest way to use dselect is to choose the source, then do not
select extra packages outside of the defaults. Except scroll down and
select apt. Then hit return. This will install the default base system.
Later use apt-get install to install the mail client, mta, etc that you
want. This
I like the machine name, skunkpussy. Hehe.
On Sat, Feb 27, 1999 at 03:54:04AM -, Frankie wrote:
...
I think that debian needs to adopt a (slightly) aggressive marketing policy,
to increase its userbase. The fact that it doesn't have professional
marketers counts in redhat's favour.
For
George Bonser wrote:
On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Ed Cogburn wrote:
First, I think a *lot* of the Debian users are using it at least
in part based on 'political' issues such as Debian being the only
non-commercial distribution (myself included). For one thing, as
another poster
Matt Garman wrote:
I like the machine name, skunkpussy. Hehe.
On Sat, Feb 27, 1999 at 03:54:04AM -, Frankie wrote:
...
I think that debian needs to adopt a (slightly) aggressive marketing policy,
to increase its userbase. The fact that it doesn't have professional
marketers
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