Re: Let's have a vote!

On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 21:13:53 +0900 Joel Rees wrote: > 2014/09/30 20:24 "Miles Fidelman" : > > > > Mart van de Wege wrote: > >> [snip] > >> No, but there is some sort of social contract that says that > >> fouling up a mailing list with pretty much the same whine every > >> post is just plain rude

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 11:18:27 +0100 Martin Read wrote: > On 30/09/14 02:06, Hörmetjan Yiltiz wrote: > > ​Would not save that much, actually, since almost everyone here uses > > Debian and are Debian users, and furthermore, hopefully, users who > > use Debian and Debian only. > > I very much hope

Re: Let's have a vote!

Joel Rees wrote: 2014/09/30 20:24 "Miles Fidelman" >: > > Mart van de Wege wrote: >> >> lee mailto:l...@yagibdah.de>> writes: >> >>> Stephen Allen > writes: >>> So, Lee why are you even here complaining about Debian -

Re: Let's have a vote!

Miles Fidelman writes: > >> What difference does it make? Is there some sort of social contract you > >> need to sign which forbids you to mention any disadvantages Debian might > >> have and only allows you to praise its advantages? > >> > > No, but there is some sort of social contract that

Re: Let's have a vote!

2014/09/30 20:24 "Miles Fidelman" : > > Mart van de Wege wrote: >> >> lee writes: >> >>> Stephen Allen writes: >>> So, Lee why are you even here complaining about Debian - You've admitted you don't use it?! >>> >>> My server runs on Debian. So technically, I'm using it, and I don't >>>

Re: Let's have a vote!

Mart van de Wege wrote: lee writes: Stephen Allen writes: So, Lee why are you even here complaining about Debian - You've admitted you don't use it?! My server runs on Debian. So technically, I'm using it, and I don't feel like I'm using it. What difference does it make? Is there some s

Re: Let's have a vote!

On 30/09/14 02:06, Hörmetjan Yiltiz wrote: ​Would not save that much, actually, since almost everyone here uses Debian and are Debian users, and furthermore, hopefully, users who use Debian and Debian only. I very much hope that many people here do not use *only* Debian, because people with di

Re: Let's have a vote!

On 09/30/2014 08:13, Mart van de Wege wrote: > lee writes: >> Stephen Allen writes: >>> So, Lee why are you even here complaining about Debian - You've admitted >>> you don't use it?! >> >> My server runs on Debian. So technically, I'm using it, and I don't >> feel like I'm using it. >> >> What

Re: Let's have a vote!

lee writes: > Stephen Allen writes: > >> So, Lee why are you even here complaining about Debian - You've admitted >> you don't use it?! > > My server runs on Debian. So technically, I'm using it, and I don't > feel like I'm using it. > > What difference does it make? Is there some sort of soci

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 09:05:30PM -0500, green wrote: > Steve Litt wrote at 2014-09-29 20:30 -0500: > > On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 17:13:10 -0400 > > Stephen Allen wrote: > > > Also, in > > > terms of upgrading a Debian System - Are you aware that prior to each > > > major release, Debian releases a com

Re: Let's have a vote!

Steve Litt wrote at 2014-09-29 20:30 -0500: > On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 17:13:10 -0400 > Stephen Allen wrote: > > Also, in > > terms of upgrading a Debian System - Are you aware that prior to each > > major release, Debian releases a comprehensive upgrade treatise that > > covers any quirks and describi

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 01:19:13 +0200 lee wrote: > It's because my server runs on Debian; I wouldn't be here otherwise. > And since it does, I've considered using Debian again (on my desktop) > because that could have some advantages. Wait a minute Lee. Aren't you the guy who insists on xen? As I

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 17:13:10 -0400 Stephen Allen wrote: > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 11:58:30AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > > Me, I'm personally going to continue fresh installing, because I > > enjoy the spring-cleaning aspect of it, and the fact that I'm > > starting my new version from a known

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 09:08:24 +1000 Charlie wrote: > In my case have two laptops with Debian Jessie, an Acer and Toshiba, > second hand when I got them both with only 512MB of RAM and a bit > challenged now, when I do too much at once. They will never go past > Jessie, they have both been used as

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 2:22 PM, Mart van de Wege wrote: > lee writes: > > > "Karl E. Jorgensen" writes: > > > >> * not doing "crazy things", like running backports or > >> testing/unstable [2], and no grabbing *.debs from weird places. > > > > Debian isn't as stable as you like to think. I

Re: Let's have a vote!

Stephen Allen writes: > So, Lee why are you even here complaining about Debian - You've admitted > you don't use it?! My server runs on Debian. So technically, I'm using it, and I don't feel like I'm using it. What difference does it make? Is there some sort of social contract you need to sig

Re: Let's have a vote!

Chris Bannister writes: > On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 11:19:58PM +0200, lee wrote: >> >> Sure is, yet why tell me to make software nobody cares about. > > Maybe to keep you busy? Ah yes, that could be the reason :)) -- Hallowed are the Debians! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ..

Re: Let's have a vote!

Ansgar Burchardt writes: > lee writes: >> As I already said: try to get squid 2.7 started and stopped by systemd >> on a current Fedora installation. > > This is not the Fedora users list. And how is this relevant? Will Debian provide their own version of systemd which is completely different

Re: Let's have a vote!

Mart van de Wege writes: > lee writes: > >> "Karl E. Jorgensen" writes: >> >>> * not doing "crazy things", like running backports or >>> testing/unstable [2], and no grabbing *.debs from weird places. >> >> Debian isn't as stable as you like to think. I am required to run the >> latest kerne

Re: Let's have a vote!

PaulNM writes: > On 09/28/2014 05:25 PM, Joe wrote: >> On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 11:01:24 -0500 >> John Hasler wrote: >> >> >> An upgraded system is not necessarily identical to a new installation, > > [...] > > It's more that Debian tries not to change things unless you ask it to. > For example, if

Re: Let's have a vote!

Chris Bannister writes: > On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 10:38:18PM +0200, lee wrote: >> Ric Moore writes: >> >> > On 09/27/2014 02:49 PM, lee wrote: >> > >> >> Just ask yourself: Why would someone choose to download an ISO for >> >> Debian? >> > >> > For me, it's the safest way to install/upgrade. I

Cruft (was Re: Let's have a vote!)

In aptitude I am certain to purge any packages that I am removing that I'm sure that I won't be using. I even do this on packages that will be automatically removed upon an upgrade. Every so often I use the Limit display option to search for removed but configured packages and purge those. Anoth

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 11:58:30 -0400 Steve Litt sent: > Me, I'm personally going to continue fresh installing, because I enjoy > the spring-cleaning aspect of it, and the fact that I'm starting my > new version from a known state. But I'm now aware this is a Steve Litt > quirk, not solid advice for

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 11:58:30AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > Me, I'm personally going to continue fresh installing, because I enjoy > the spring-cleaning aspect of it, and the fact that I'm starting my > new version from a known state. But I'm now aware this is a Steve Litt > quirk, not solid adv

Re: Let's have a vote!

Steve Litt wrote: On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 11:45:13 -0400 Stephen Allen wrote: On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 11:29:22AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 23:50:45 +1300 Chris Bannister wrote: On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 09:49:10PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:32:38 -0400

Re: Let's have a vote!

Stephen Allen wrote: On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 08:22:23AM +0200, Mart van de Wege wrote: lee writes: "Karl E. Jorgensen" writes: * not doing "crazy things", like running backports or testing/unstable [2], and no grabbing *.debs from weird places. Debian isn't as stable as you like to thi

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 11:45:13 -0400 Stephen Allen wrote: > On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 11:29:22AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 23:50:45 +1300 > > Chris Bannister wrote: > > > > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 09:49:10PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > > > On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:32:38 -040

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 11:29:22AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 23:50:45 +1300 > Chris Bannister wrote: > > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 09:49:10PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > > On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:32:38 -0400 > > > > Yes. I'm a huge believer in wiping and reinstalling major

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 08:22:23AM +0200, Mart van de Wege wrote: > lee writes: > > > "Karl E. Jorgensen" writes: > > > >> * not doing "crazy things", like running backports or > >> testing/unstable [2], and no grabbing *.debs from weird places. > > > > Debian isn't as stable as you like to th

Re: Let's have a vote!

lee writes: > "Karl E. Jorgensen" writes: > >> * not doing "crazy things", like running backports or >> testing/unstable [2], and no grabbing *.debs from weird places. > > Debian isn't as stable as you like to think. I am required to run the > latest kernel from backports for otherwise my ser

Re: Let's have a vote!

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 09/29/2014 at 02:43 AM, Ansgar Burchardt wrote: > lee writes: > >> As I already said: try to get squid 2.7 started and stopped by >> systemd on a current Fedora installation. > > This is not the Fedora users list. > >> Sure is, yet why tell

Re: Let's have a vote!

lee writes: > As I already said: try to get squid 2.7 started and stopped by systemd > on a current Fedora installation. This is not the Fedora users list. > Sure is, yet why tell me to make software nobody cares about. That > won't get systemd out of Debian. Given you don't use Debian anyway

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 11:19:58PM +0200, lee wrote: > > Sure is, yet why tell me to make software nobody cares about. Maybe to keep you busy? > That won't get systemd out of Debian. LOL, neither will ranting and raving and spreading all sorts of FUD. -- "If you're not careful, the newspape

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 10:38:18PM +0200, lee wrote: > Ric Moore writes: > > > On 09/27/2014 02:49 PM, lee wrote: > > > >> Just ask yourself: Why would someone choose to download an ISO for > >> Debian? > > > > For me, it's the safest way to install/upgrade. I have had too many > > problems with

Re: Let's have a vote!

Ric Moore writes: > On 09/27/2014 02:49 PM, lee wrote: > >> Just ask yourself: Why would someone choose to download an ISO for >> Debian? > > For me, it's the safest way to install/upgrade. I have had too many > problems with interrupted live major migration to the next release > level via an upg

Re: Let's have a vote!

Steve Litt writes: > On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 23:50:45 +1300 > Chris Bannister wrote: > >> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 09:49:10PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: >> > On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:32:38 -0400 > >> > Yes. I'm a huge believer in wiping and reinstalling major versions. >> > It's like spring cleaning, a

Re: Let's have a vote!

Scott Ferguson writes: > On 28/09/14 04:49, lee wrote: >> Scott Ferguson writes: >> >>> On 26/09/14 07:34, lee wrote: Darac Marjal writes: >> On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 03:04:24PM +0200, lee wrote: >> >>> Systemd can handle the boot process from head to toe, >>> withou

Re: Let's have a vote!

"Karl E. Jorgensen" writes: > * not doing "crazy things", like running backports or > testing/unstable [2], and no grabbing *.debs from weird places. Debian isn't as stable as you like to think. I am required to run the latest kernel from backports for otherwise my server will crash due to NF

Re: Let's have a vote!

On 09/28/2014 05:25 PM, Joe wrote: > On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 11:01:24 -0500 > John Hasler wrote: > > > An upgraded system is not necessarily identical to a new installation, > even to the point of not containing exactly the same packages. I first > noticed that with etch, when I made a new installat

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 11:01:24 -0500 John Hasler wrote: > Steve Litt writes: > > I assume that implicit in your reply is that such a major version > > upgrade works well, and that over the years you don't get all sorts > > of accumulated software dust bunnies doing funny things to you. > > > How m

Re: Let's have a vote!

Steve Litt wrote: On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 23:50:45 +1300 Chris Bannister wrote: On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 09:49:10PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:32:38 -0400 Yes. I'm a huge believer in wiping and reinstalling major versions. It's like spring cleaning, and I eliminate ghosts

Re: Let's have a vote!

Erwan David writes: > I do reinstall when I change hardware, otherwise just upgrades. I don't. I've changed motherboards without reinstalling. The only hardware change that caused me to reinstall was going to 64-bit. It begins to look like Systemd will require reinstallation, though. -- John H

Re: Let's have a vote!

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 09/28/2014 at 11:29 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 23:50:45 +1300 Chris Bannister > wrote: > >> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 09:49:10PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: >>> Yes. I'm a huge believer in wiping and reinstalling major >>> versio

Re: Let's have a vote!

Steve Litt writes: > I assume that implicit in your reply is that such a major version > upgrade works well, and that over the years you don't get all sorts of > accumulated software dust bunnies doing funny things to you. > How many others here have experiences like Chris'? My opinions are > base

Re: Let's have a vote!

On 28/09/14 16:29, Steve Litt wrote: I assume that implicit in your reply is that such a major version upgrade works well, and that over the years you don't get all sorts of accumulated software dust bunnies doing funny things to you. How many others here have experiences like Chris'? Well, th

Re: Let's have a vote!

Le 28/09/2014 17:29, Steve Litt a écrit : > I assume that implicit in your reply is that such a major version > upgrade works well, and that over the years you don't get all sorts of > accumulated software dust bunnies doing funny things to you. > > How many others here have experiences like Chris'

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 12:55:32 +0200 Martin Steigerwald wrote: > Am Sonntag, 28. September 2014, 23:50:45 schrieb Chris Bannister: > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 09:49:10PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > > On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:32:38 -0400 > > > > > > Ric Moore wrote: > > > > On 09/27/2014 02:49 PM,

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 23:50:45 +1300 Chris Bannister wrote: > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 09:49:10PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:32:38 -0400 > > Yes. I'm a huge believer in wiping and reinstalling major versions. > > It's like spring cleaning, and I eliminate ghosts of operati

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 11:50:45PM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 09:49:10PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:32:38 -0400 > > Ric Moore wrote: > > > > > On 09/27/2014 02:49 PM, lee wrote: > > > > > > > Just ask yourself: Why would someone choose to dow

Re: Let's have a vote!

Am Sonntag, 28. September 2014, 12:55:32 schrieb Martin Steigerwald: > Am Sonntag, 28. September 2014, 23:50:45 schrieb Chris Bannister: > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 09:49:10PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > > On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:32:38 -0400 > > > > > > Ric Moore wrote: > > > > On 09/27/2014 02:4

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 03:05:06PM +0900, Joel Rees wrote: > 2014/09/28 7:33 "Ric Moore" : > > > > On 09/27/2014 02:49 PM, lee wrote: > > > >> Darac Marjal writes: > >> > > >> > It's a personal choice. If you require a crowd of support as moral > >> > justification you're doing it wrong. > >> Just

Re: Let's have a vote!

Am Sonntag, 28. September 2014, 23:50:45 schrieb Chris Bannister: > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 09:49:10PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:32:38 -0400 > > > > Ric Moore wrote: > > > On 09/27/2014 02:49 PM, lee wrote: > > > > Just ask yourself: Why would someone choose to download

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 09:49:10PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:32:38 -0400 > Ric Moore wrote: > > > On 09/27/2014 02:49 PM, lee wrote: > > > > > Just ask yourself: Why would someone choose to download an ISO for > > > Debian? > > > > For me, it's the safest way to install/

Re: Let's have a vote!

2014/09/28 7:33 "Ric Moore" : > > On 09/27/2014 02:49 PM, lee wrote: > >> Darac Marjal writes: >> > >> > It's a personal choice. If you require a crowd of support as moral >> > justification you're doing it wrong. >> Just ask yourself: Why would someone choose to download an ISO for >> Debian? > >

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:32:38 -0400 Ric Moore wrote: > On 09/27/2014 02:49 PM, lee wrote: > > > Just ask yourself: Why would someone choose to download an ISO for > > Debian? > > For me, it's the safest way to install/upgrade. I have had too many > problems with interrupted live major migration

Re: Let's have a vote!

On 28/09/14 04:49, lee wrote: > Scott Ferguson writes: > >> On 26/09/14 07:34, lee wrote: >>> Darac Marjal writes: >>> > On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 03:04:24PM +0200, lee wrote: > >> Systemd can handle the boot process from head to toe, >> without needing to use any of the existing

Re: Let's have a vote!

On 09/27/2014 02:49 PM, lee wrote: Just ask yourself: Why would someone choose to download an ISO for Debian? For me, it's the safest way to install/upgrade. I have had too many problems with interrupted live major migration to the next release level via an upgrade, or a live network total i

Re: Let's have a vote!

Scott Ferguson writes: > On 26/09/14 07:34, lee wrote: >> Darac Marjal writes: >> On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 03:04:24PM +0200, lee wrote: > Systemd can handle the boot process from head to toe, without needing > to use any of the existing shell scripts. That's how syste

Re: Let's have a vote!

> On 26 Sep 2014, at 23:22, Miles Fidelman wrote: > > Definitely contributing to the noise, as your citation simply points to a > comment by someone, on the debian-devel list. The reference neither: > - points to a general resolution that was mooted, nor, Steve's link was to the start of a s

Re: Let's have a vote!

PaulNM wrote: My own personal/technical thoughts have gone back and forth on systemd. However even when I firmly believed that is was the wrong way to go and would cause major issues down the line, it was still clear to me that many people were seriously going overboard. Could be. That s

Re: Let's have a vote!

Steve McIntyre wrote: Miles Fidelman wrote: Stephen Allen wrote: As has been stated many times here - A GR was tried but not enough seconds to carry on. Actually, no - I've been following this, and related threads, from the beginning - I have not seen anybody actually mention that a GR was tri

Re: Let's have a vote!

Martin Read wrote: On 26/09/14 20:05, Miles Fidelman wrote: Actually, no - I've been following this, and related threads, from the beginning - I have not seen anybody actually mention that a GR was tried. Do you have a reference? https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/03/msg00114.html M

Re: Let's have a vote!

Miles Fidelman wrote: >Stephen Allen wrote: >> As has been stated many times here - A GR was tried but not enough >> seconds to carry on. > >Actually, no - I've been following this, and related threads, from the >beginning - I have not seen anybody actually mention that a GR was >tried. Do you h

Re: Let's have a vote!

On 09/26/2014 03:05 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote: > Stephen Allen wrote: >> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:27:54AM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote: >> As has been stated many times here - A GR was tried but not enough >> seconds to carry on. > > Actually, no - I've been following this, and related threads, fr

Re: Let's have a vote!

Stephen Allen wrote: On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 03:05:14PM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote: Stephen Allen wrote: On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:27:54AM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote: Martin Read wrote: On 25/09/14 15:42, Rob Owens wrote: I agree that "let's wait until we have a good init to move to" shou

Re: Let's have a vote!

On 26/09/14 20:05, Miles Fidelman wrote: Actually, no - I've been following this, and related threads, from the beginning - I have not seen anybody actually mention that a GR was tried. Do you have a reference? https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/03/msg00114.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, ema

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 03:05:14PM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote: > Stephen Allen wrote: > >On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:27:54AM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote: > >>Martin Read wrote: > >>>On 25/09/14 15:42, Rob Owens wrote: > I agree that "let's wait until we have a good init to move to" should > >>>

Re: Let's have a vote!

Stephen Allen wrote: On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:27:54AM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote: Martin Read wrote: On 25/09/14 15:42, Rob Owens wrote: I agree that "let's wait until we have a good init to move to" should have been more seriously considered, but for some reason people were in a big hurry

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:27:54AM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote: > Martin Read wrote: > >On 25/09/14 15:42, Rob Owens wrote: > >>I agree that "let's wait until we have a good init to move to" should > >>have been more seriously considered, but for some reason people were in > >>a big hurry to make a

Re: Let's have a vote!

Martin Read wrote: On 25/09/14 15:42, Rob Owens wrote: I agree that "let's wait until we have a good init to move to" should have been more seriously considered, but for some reason people were in a big hurry to make a move. The vote held was "What should the default init system *in jessie*

Re: Let's have a vote!

On 26/09/14 07:34, lee wrote: > Darac Marjal writes: > >>> On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 03:04:24PM +0200, lee wrote: >>> Systemd can handle the boot process from head to toe, without needing to use any of the existing shell scripts. >>> >>> That's how systemd makes the boot process cryptic a

Re: Let's have a vote!

Darac Marjal writes: >> On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 03:04:24PM +0200, lee wrote: >> >> > Systemd can handle the boot process from head to toe, without needing >> > to use any of the existing shell scripts. >> >> That's how systemd makes the boot process cryptic and non-debuggable. > > If you can un

Re: Let's have a vote! I was just banned from debian forum for posting a systemd critical message.

Stephen Allen wrote: > Deservedly so, in my opinion. I'm sure the silent majority are as sick > as I am of several people beating this dead horse to death. Most Linux > distributions are DoCractic, those that do the work, make the rules. Not to mention drive-by attacks on development communication

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 02:13:11AM +0800, Hörmetjan Yiltiz wrote: > But still, since systemd was the default, a tendency in choosing the > default plays such a major role that you may even not realize. A systematic > research involving default effect is here: > Isaac Dinner et. al., 2011, Partition

Re: Let's have a vote! I was just banned from debian forum for posting a systemd critical message.

Your posts were massively over the top, so I not surprised you got banned. Thanks for flagging up that debian forum, it's gone beneath my radar up to now! On 25 September 2014 20:46, Stephen Allen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 09:51:38AM -0700, Gregory Smith wrote: > > I was just banned from

Re: Let's have a vote! I was just banned from debian forum for posting a systemd critical message.

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 09:51:38AM -0700, Gregory Smith wrote: > I was just banned from debian forum for posting a systemd critical message. > > I posted the message found here: > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/09/msg01834.html > > It was deleted twice and then: > > You have been *per

Re: Let's have a vote! I was just banned from debian forum for posting a systemd critical message.

On Thu, 9/25/14, Gregory Smith wrote: Subject: Re: Let's have a vote! I was just banned from debian forum for posting a systemd critical message. To: "row...@ptd.net" Cc: "debian-user@lists.debian.org" Date: Thursday, September 25, 2014, 11:51 AM I was just ban

Re: Let's have a vote!

But still, since systemd was the default, a tendency in choosing the default plays such a major role that you may even not realize. A systematic research involving default effect is here: Isaac Dinner et. al., 2011, Partitioning Default Effects: Why People Choose Not to Choose, J of Experimental Ps

Re: Let's have a vote! I was just banned from debian forum for posting a systemd critical message.

I was just banned from debian forum for posting a systemd critical message. I posted the message found here: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/09/msg01834.html It was deleted twice and then: You have been *permanently* banned from this board. Please contact the Board Administrator for

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 16:55:29 +0100 Martin Read wrote: > On 25/09/14 16:40, Steve Litt wrote: > > "Let's wait for a good alternative, and in the meantime keep > > sysvinit" is a lot different than "let's keep sysvinit > > (indefinitely)". > > Voting "let's keep sysvinit *in jessie*" says *exactly

Re: Let's have a vote!

On 25/09/14 16:40, Steve Litt wrote: "Let's wait for a good alternative, and in the meantime keep sysvinit" is a lot different than "let's keep sysvinit (indefinitely)". Voting "let's keep sysvinit *in jessie*" says *exactly nothing* about the init system in jessie+1. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, ema

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 16:09:52 +0100 Martin Read wrote: > On 25/09/14 15:42, Rob Owens wrote: > > I agree that "let's wait until we have a good init to move to" > > should have been more seriously considered, but for some reason > > people were in a big hurry to make a move. > > The vote held was

Re: Let's have a vote!

- Original Message - > From: "Martin Read" > > On 25/09/14 15:42, Rob Owens wrote: > > I agree that "let's wait until we have a good init to move to" should have > > been more seriously considered, but for some reason people were in a big > > hurry to make a move. > > The vote held was "

Re: Let's have a vote!

On 25/09/14 15:42, Rob Owens wrote: I agree that "let's wait until we have a good init to move to" should have been more seriously considered, but for some reason people were in a big hurry to make a move. The vote held was "What should the default init system *in jessie* be?". Given that as

Re: Let's have a vote!

Ahoj, Dňa Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:42:58 -0400 (EDT) Rob Owens napísal: > - Original Message - > > From: "Steve Litt" > > > > On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 13:13:51 -0400 (EDT) > > Rob Owens wrote: > > > > > - Original Message - > > > > From: "The Wanderer" > > > > > > > > On 09/22/2014 a

Re: Let's have a vote!

- Original Message - > From: "Steve Litt" > > On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 13:13:51 -0400 (EDT) > Rob Owens wrote: > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "The Wanderer" > > > > > > On 09/22/2014 at 06:54 AM, Darac Marjal wrote: > > > > > > Those are votes for Debian, but not for syste

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 13:13:51 -0400 (EDT) Rob Owens wrote: > - Original Message - > > From: "The Wanderer" > > > > On 09/22/2014 at 06:54 AM, Darac Marjal wrote: > > > > Those are votes for Debian, but not for systemd, or for "Debian with > > systemd as central". > > > > In the case at

Re: Let's have a vote!

- Original Message - > From: "The Wanderer" > > On 09/22/2014 at 06:54 AM, Darac Marjal wrote: > > Those are votes for Debian, but not for systemd, or for "Debian with > systemd as central". > > In the case at hand, the latter two are what people are asking to be > able to have a vote (

Re: Let's have a vote!

Steve Litt writes: > On Thu, 18 Sep 2014 08:10:17 +0200 > Mart van de Wege wrote: > >> Steve Litt writes: > >> > A) Twine and baling wire is better than monolithic entanglement. >> >> Yeah, after this I'm really not going to take you seriously anymore. >> > >> > B) If you try Daemontools, you

Re: Let's have a vote!

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 09/22/2014 at 06:54 AM, Darac Marjal wrote: > On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 03:04:24PM +0200, lee wrote: > >> Sven Joachim writes: >> >>> On 2014-09-16 02:00 +0200, lee wrote: Shall we have a vote? AFAIK, there's nothing that would speak

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 03:04:24PM +0200, lee wrote: > Sven Joachim writes: > > > On 2014-09-16 02:00 +0200, lee wrote: > > > >> And I'd also like to hear what advantages systemd actually brings about > >> that would make it desirable. > > > > https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/systemd sho

Re: Let's have a vote!

Sven Joachim writes: > On 2014-09-16 02:00 +0200, lee wrote: > >> And I'd also like to hear what advantages systemd actually brings about >> that would make it desirable. > > https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/systemd should get you started. I've read that page. Where are the advantages?

Re: Let's have a vote!

st writes: > lee wrote: > >> Shall we have a vote? > > That's hardly necessary, seeing as how Debian developers have > been disregarding their users' needs in the last few years. Good point ... -- Knowledge is volatile and fluid. Software is power. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-

Re: Let's have a vote!

Martin Read writes: > On 16/09/14 01:00, lee wrote: >> Shall we have a vote? AFAIK, there's nothing that would speak against >> having one, in this very mailing list. Why not ask the users? Why >> should only Debian developers be allowed to vote but not the users? > > Debian users, on the othe

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Thu, 18 Sep 2014 08:10:17 +0200 Mart van de Wege wrote: > Steve Litt writes: > > A) Twine and baling wire is better than monolithic entanglement. > > Yeah, after this I'm really not going to take you seriously anymore. > > > > B) If you try Daemontools, you just might switch your view of wh

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 08:10:17AM +0200, Mart van de Wege wrote: > Steve Litt writes: > > > On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 11:49:52 +0200 > > Mart van de Wege wrote: > > > >> Steve Litt writes: > >> > >> > > >> > And last but not least is the alternative of holding your nose and > >> > using systemd. If

Re: Let's have a vote!

Steve Litt writes: > On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 11:49:52 +0200 > Mart van de Wege wrote: > >> Steve Litt writes: >> >> > >> > And last but not least is the alternative of holding your nose and >> > using systemd. If I go that route, the first thing I'm going to do >> > is remove daemons from systemd'

Re: Gnu Guix (was: Let's have a vote!)

* On 2014 17 Sep 15:44 -0500, Andre N Batista wrote: > Have any of you tested Gnu Guix > (https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/#content)? It appears to be a > promissing package manager, I'm guessing _if_ it would be easier to solve > these chain issues with it. I actually only discovered it yesterda

Re: Let's have a vote!

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 11:49:52 +0200 Mart van de Wege wrote: > Steve Litt writes: > > > > > And last but not least is the alternative of holding your nose and > > using systemd. If I go that route, the first thing I'm going to do > > is remove daemons from systemd's control and move them to > > D

Re: Gnu Guix (was: Let's have a vote!)

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 05:15:39PM -0700, koanhead wrote: > On 09/16/2014 03:00 PM, Steve Litt wrote: > > On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:05:25 -0500 Nate Bargmann > > wrote: > > > >> * On 2014 16 Sep 12:51 -0500, st wrote: > >>> Surely, I'd love to see the votes on 'What distribution > >>> currently al

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