Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-16 Thread Anders Wegge Keller
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:01:44 -0700 Bob Holtzman hol...@cox.net wrote: What I read of your post wasn't dissent. It was character assassination. Please let me know how to point out that an idiotic behaviour is disruptive to the whole process, without actually telling the person in question,

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-16 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach David L. Craig dlc@gmail.com [2014-10-14 00:16 +0200]: Jessie may need to be widely considered the Vista of Debian releases before a majority of DDs are willing to revisit the init default. Meanwhile, everyone who thinks this was the wrong decision should work to ensure that

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-16 Thread Lisi Reisz
On Thursday 16 October 2014 07:55:40 Anders Wegge Keller wrote: On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:01:44 -0700 Bob Holtzman hol...@cox.net wrote: What I read of your post wasn't dissent. It was character assassination. Please let me know how to point out that an idiotic behaviour is disruptive to

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-16 Thread Anders Wegge Keller
On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 11:38:59 +0100 Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday 16 October 2014 07:55:40 Anders Wegge Keller wrote: On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:01:44 -0700 Bob Holtzman hol...@cox.net wrote: What I read of your post wasn't dissent. It was character assassination.

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-16 Thread Lisi Reisz
On Thursday 16 October 2014 11:46:46 Anders Wegge Keller wrote: On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 11:38:59 +0100 Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday 16 October 2014 07:55:40 Anders Wegge Keller wrote: On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:01:44 -0700 Bob Holtzman hol...@cox.net wrote: What I

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-16 Thread Anders Wegge Keller
On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 11:59:24 +0100 Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: My golly, you are an arrogant self-opinionated individual. As well as misinformed and mistaken. Thank you for those kind words. However, I think you are undermining your attempt at establishing your moral superiority,

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-16 Thread The Wanderer
On 10/16/2014 at 06:17 AM, martin f krafft wrote: also sprach David L. Craig dlc@gmail.com [2014-10-14 00:16 +0200]: Jessie may need to be widely considered the Vista of Debian releases before a majority of DDs are willing to revisit the init default. Meanwhile, everyone who thinks

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-16 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm [2014-10-16 15:12 +0200]: The people who voted to make systemd the default init system presumably think that it already does meet Debian standards, at least to within acceptable tolerances. I don't think this is the case. The CTTE's decision was

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-15 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Ma, 14 oct 14, 18:11:31, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: I'll never hear from you again, as you are clearly getting a kick out of fuelling the flames. I can assure you it is not my intention to fuel the flames, though this doesn't mean I couldn't be doing it anyway, inadvertently. I hereby

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-15 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Mi, 15 oct 14, 15:34:22, Andrew McGlashan wrote: I'm not so sure that squeeze-lts will be supported well enough for long enough. Hopefully wheezy gets good support with a wheezy-lts. From https://wiki.debian.org/LTS Companies using Debian who are interested in aiding this effort

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-15 Thread Anders Wegge Keller
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 04:07:25 +1100 Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: Given that your only contribution to the list is outright and offensive hypocrisy why should you not be rightfully dismissed as an abusive and offensive poster who contributes nothing to the subject.

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-15 Thread Scott Ferguson
On 15/10/14 18:43, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 04:07:25 +1100 Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: Given that your only contribution to the list is outright and offensive hypocrisy why should you not be rightfully dismissed as an abusive and

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-15 Thread Bob Holtzman
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 09:43:00AM +0200, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 04:07:25 +1100 Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: Given that your only contribution to the list is outright and offensive hypocrisy why should you not be rightfully dismissed as

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-15 Thread Ric Moore
On 10/15/2014 12:34 AM, Andrew McGlashan wrote: That's a problem in itself. There should be room for real discussion as is taking place here on the debian-user list, without fear of having posts filtered. I agree, but they (the moderators) have a vested interest when someone posts something

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-15 Thread Miles Fidelman
Ric Moore wrote: On 10/15/2014 12:34 AM, Andrew McGlashan wrote: That's a problem in itself. There should be room for real discussion as is taking place here on the debian-user list, without fear of having posts filtered. I agree, but they (the moderators) have a vested interest when

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-15 Thread ~Stack~
On 10/13/2014 05:16 PM, David L. Craig wrote: On 14Oct14:0837+1100, Andrew McGlashan wrote: On 14/10/2014 8:32 AM, John Hasler wrote: Andrei POPESCU writes: Without an accurate count I'd say only about 1% (or less) of the subscribers are actually participating in these discussion. 1%

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Chris Bannister
On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 12:49:31AM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote: Chris Bannister wrote: On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 07:45:03PM +0200, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: It seems that there's a lot of controversy about the SysV-replacement that should not be named. Most, if not all of the arguments for,

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Richard Owlett
Chris Bannister wrote: On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 12:49:31AM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote: Chris Bannister wrote: On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 07:45:03PM +0200, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: It seems that there's a lot of controversy about the SysV-replacement that should not be named. Most, if not all

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Miles Fidelman
Chris Bannister wrote: On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 12:49:31AM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote: Chris Bannister wrote: On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 07:45:03PM +0200, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: It seems that there's a lot of controversy about the SysV-replacement that should not be named. Most, if not all

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Chris Bannister
On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 07:01:33AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: I suspect any list with offtopic in its name will get ignored when there is a large number of people want to say something about a specific topic. Would a list whose address was debian-user-newfeatures be more attractive? Are

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread The Wanderer
On 10/13/2014 at 05:52 PM, Jonathan Dowland wrote: On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 08:40:38AM +1100, Andrew McGlashan wrote: Vocal minority, looking after the interests of many more whom will be yet to learn of the facts at some stage. Don't confuse facts and opinions. You seem to be

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Chris Bannister
On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 08:47:28AM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote: Why? Help and discussion among users of Debian seems like a perfectly good description and scope, of long standing. That is true, but look at the confusion it causes --- it gives the impression that anything can be discussed

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread John Hasler
Chris Bannister writes: I thought there was a difference between a closed list (only subscribers can post) and a moderated list (each post is scrutinised for eligibility) --- or have I got the wrong end of the stick? This list is evidently open and mechanically moderated. Anyone can try to

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Chris Bannister
On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 09:31:19AM -0500, John Hasler wrote: Chris Bannister writes: I thought there was a difference between a closed list (only subscribers can post) and a moderated list (each post is scrutinised for eligibility) --- or have I got the wrong end of the stick? This list

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread The Wanderer
On 10/14/2014 at 10:53 AM, Chris Bannister wrote: On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 09:31:19AM -0500, John Hasler wrote: Chris Bannister writes: I thought there was a difference between a closed list (only subscribers can post) and a moderated list (each post is scrutinised for eligibility) --- or

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Chris Bannister
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 03:53:48AM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 09:31:19AM -0500, John Hasler wrote: Chris Bannister writes: I thought there was a difference between a closed list (only subscribers can post) and a moderated list (each post is scrutinised for

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Miles Fidelman
Chris Bannister wrote: On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 03:53:48AM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 09:31:19AM -0500, John Hasler wrote: Chris Bannister writes: I thought there was a difference between a closed list (only subscribers can post) and a moderated list (each post is

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Anders Wegge Keller
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 22:43:48 +0300 Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: There's -offtopic (see my .sig), but apparently the anti-systemd crowd wants an audience :( Stop your condescending tone, and make your self useful by reading a book about change mangament. I don't know who you

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Lisi Reisz
On Tuesday 14 October 2014 17:11:31 Anders Wegge Keller wrote: On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 22:43:48 +0300 Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: There's -offtopic (see my .sig), but apparently the anti-systemd crowd wants an audience :( Stop your condescending tone, and make your self

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Anders Wegge Keller
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 17:33:55 +0100 Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: This to one of our best and most measured contributors. It's enough to make one weep. He could have been the pope. His attitude is part of the problem, not the solution. If you have read the book about change

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread John Hasler
Miles Fidelman writes: - unclear posting policy: --- says it's open (anyone can post) - but haven't actually tested whether it really means subscribers-only (note, some Debian lists are actually fully open - for example debian-boot is both a list and the contact address for the installer

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Scott Ferguson
On 15/10/14 03:11, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 22:43:48 +0300 Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: There's -offtopic (see my .sig), but apparently the anti-systemd crowd wants an audience :( Stop your condescending tone,

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Curt
On 2014-10-14, John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com wrote: Moderation usually means that some natural person reads and approves or disapproves every item. That's clearly not the case here. What the actual policy is, as you say, unclear. It appears that the listmasters occasionally block a

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Ric Moore
On 10/14/2014 12:40 PM, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: I do not want to hear from someone acting out of a misplaced sense of loyalty. I want someone who actually is capable of seeing why elitism isn't going to save Debian in this case, to come forward, and create a place where the issue can be

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Richard Owlett
Anders Wegge Keller wrote: On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 22:43:48 +0300 Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: There's -offtopic (see my .sig), but apparently the anti-systemd crowd wants an audience :( Stop your condescending tone, CAREFUL, you insert foot-in-mouth past clavicle ...

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Steve Litt
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 15:17:27 -0500 Richard Owlett rowl...@cloud85.net wrote: Anders Wegge Keller wrote: On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 22:43:48 +0300 Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: There's -offtopic (see my .sig), but apparently the anti-systemd crowd wants an audience :(

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Steve Litt
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 18:11:31 +0200 Anders Wegge Keller we...@wegge.dk wrote: ... make your self useful by reading a book about change mangament. Without in any way endorsing or criticizing anything else that's happened in this thread, I'd like to ask what are some relatively simple change

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread s. keeling
Anders Wegge Keller we...@wegge.dk: On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 17:33:55 +0100 Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: This to one of our best and most measured contributors. It's enough to make one weep. He could have been the pope. His attitude is part of the problem, not the I didn't

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread s. keeling
Curt cu...@free.fr: Given the number of retarded posts we've seen in the last couple of weeks, you might think things would be cooled off by now, but no. This's DU. This sort of thing is expected, even welcomed. People expressing passionate opinions wrt their choice of software? Great!

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Bob Holtzman
On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 06:11:31PM +0200, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 22:43:48 +0300 Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: There's -offtopic (see my .sig), but apparently the anti-systemd crowd wants an audience :( Stop your condescending tone, and make

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Chris Bannister
On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 06:40:01PM +0200, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 17:33:55 +0100 Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: This to one of our best and most measured contributors. It's enough to make one weep. He could have been the pope. His attitude is part of the

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-14 Thread Andrew McGlashan
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 14/10/2014 11:01 PM, Richard Owlett wrote: I suspect any list with offtopic in its name will get ignored when there is a large number of people want to say something about a specific topic. Absolutely, it helps hide problems under the rug, so

debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Anders Wegge Keller
It seems that there's a lot of controversy about the SysV-replacement that should not be named. Most, if not all of the arguments for, as well as against seem to be of a philosophical, rather than stringent technichnical nature. As such, they are probably not suited for this list. So my question

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Cindy-Sue Causey
On 10/13/14, Anders Wegge Keller we...@wegge.dk wrote: It seems that there's a lot of controversy about the SysV-replacement that should not be named. Most, if not all of the arguments for, as well as against seem to be of a philosophical, rather than stringent technichnical nature. As such,

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Steve Litt
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 19:45:03 +0200 Anders Wegge Keller we...@wegge.dk wrote: It seems that there's a lot of controversy about the SysV-replacement that should not be named. Most, if not all of the arguments for, as well as against seem to be of a philosophical, rather than stringent

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Lu, 13 oct 14, 19:45:03, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: It seems that there's a lot of controversy about the SysV-replacement that should not be named. Most, if not all of the arguments for, as well as against seem to be of a philosophical, rather than stringent technichnical nature. As such,

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Lu, 13 oct 14, 14:56:38, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote: At first quick glance over, didn't find advocacy per se (by name), but did see a possibility in debian-publicity: https://lists.debian.org/debian-publicity/ Please don't, that list is for publicity of Debian (writing the Debian

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Andrew McGlashan
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 14/10/2014 6:43 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Lu, 13 oct 14, 19:45:03, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: It seems that there's a lot of controversy about the SysV-replacement that should not be named. Most, if not all of the arguments for, as well as

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Ma, 14 oct 14, 06:53:12, Andrew McGlashan wrote: That list is basically irrelevant, no traffic at all, virtually. That only happens because people insist on posting off-topic stuff to -user instead of -offtopic. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Andrew McGlashan
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 14/10/2014 7:18 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Ma, 14 oct 14, 06:53:12, Andrew McGlashan wrote: That list is basically irrelevant, no traffic at all, virtually. That only happens because people insist on posting off-topic stuff to -user

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Ma, 14 oct 14, 08:00:46, Andrew McGlashan wrote: Clearly though, when so many people have strong views against a decision that they think is wrong, such as something significant as systemd well we've just got to deal with it too; According to https://lists.debian.org/stats/ there

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread John Hasler
Andrei POPESCU writes: Without an accurate count I'd say only about 1% (or less) of the subscribers are actually participating in these discussion. 1% participation in any discussion on a list such as this would be very large. Passing a GR to take Debian closed-source and relicense everything

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Andrew McGlashan
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 14/10/2014 8:32 AM, John Hasler wrote: Andrei POPESCU writes: Without an accurate count I'd say only about 1% (or less) of the subscribers are actually participating in these discussion. 1% participation in any discussion on a list such as

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Andrew McGlashan
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 14/10/2014 8:19 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: In my opinion this is the very definition of vocal minority. Vocal minority, looking after the interests of many more whom will be yet to learn of the facts at some stage. but otherwise have no

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Jonathan Dowland
On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 08:40:38AM +1100, Andrew McGlashan wrote: Vocal minority, looking after the interests of many more whom will be yet to learn of the facts at some stage. Don't confuse facts and opinions. You seem to be labouring under the assumption that your opinions are right and

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Lisi Reisz
Sorry, John. I clicked reply instead of pressing l. On Monday 13 October 2014 22:32:15 John Hasler wrote: Andrei POPESCU writes: Without an accurate count I'd say only about 1% (or less) of the subscribers are actually participating in these discussion. 1% participation in any discussion

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Buntunub
to discuss bugs and technical issues, is it not? -- View this message in context: http://debian.2.n7.nabble.com/debian-advocacy-tp3389520p3390123.html Sent from the Debian User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread David L. Craig
On 14Oct14:0837+1100, Andrew McGlashan wrote: On 14/10/2014 8:32 AM, John Hasler wrote: Andrei POPESCU writes: Without an accurate count I'd say only about 1% (or less) of the subscribers are actually participating in these discussion. 1% participation in any discussion on a list

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Miles Fidelman
Jonathan Dowland wrote: On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 08:40:38AM +1100, Andrew McGlashan wrote: Vocal minority, looking after the interests of many more whom will be yet to learn of the facts at some stage. Don't confuse facts and opinions. You seem to be labouring under the assumption that your

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Miles Fidelman
David L. Craig wrote: On 14Oct14:0837+1100, Andrew McGlashan wrote: On 14/10/2014 8:32 AM, John Hasler wrote: Andrei POPESCU writes: Without an accurate count I'd say only about 1% (or less) of the subscribers are actually participating in these discussion. 1% participation in any

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Brian
On Mon 13 Oct 2014 at 15:07:33 -0700, Buntunub wrote: This list is the perfect place for such things. The decision to make Systemd default in Jessie was done by the Technical Committee, not by general vote, so I guess it was decided that the whole discussion about Systemd is a bug because it

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Joel Rees
On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 7:35 AM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: On Mon 13 Oct 2014 at 15:07:33 -0700, Buntunub wrote: This list is the perfect place for such things. The decision to make Systemd default in Jessie was done by the Technical Committee, not by general vote, so I guess it was

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Steve Litt
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 23:18:01 +0300 Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: On Ma, 14 oct 14, 06:53:12, Andrew McGlashan wrote: That list is basically irrelevant, no traffic at all, virtually. That only happens because people insist on posting off-topic stuff to -user instead of

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Brian
On Tue 14 Oct 2014 at 08:02:28 +0900, Joel Rees wrote: On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 7:35 AM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: On Mon 13 Oct 2014 at 15:07:33 -0700, Buntunub wrote: This list is the perfect place for such things. The decision to make Systemd default in Jessie was done by

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Joel Rees
On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: On Tue 14 Oct 2014 at 08:02:28 +0900, Joel Rees wrote: On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 7:35 AM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: On Mon 13 Oct 2014 at 15:07:33 -0700, Buntunub wrote: This list is the perfect place for such

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Marty
On 10/13/2014 07:14 PM, Brian wrote: On Tue 14 Oct 2014 at 08:02:28 +0900, Joel Rees wrote: On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 7:35 AM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: On Mon 13 Oct 2014 at 15:07:33 -0700, Buntunub wrote: This list is the perfect place for such things. The decision to make Systemd

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Chris Bannister
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 07:45:03PM +0200, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: It seems that there's a lot of controversy about the SysV-replacement that should not be named. Most, if not all of the arguments for, as well as against seem to be of a philosophical, rather than stringent technichnical

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Miles Fidelman
Chris Bannister wrote: On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 07:45:03PM +0200, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: It seems that there's a lot of controversy about the SysV-replacement that should not be named. Most, if not all of the arguments for, as well as against seem to be of a philosophical, rather than

Re: [OT] Debian advocacy for Smart but Scared People With Lives

2004-10-22 Thread Paul Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Pigeon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That's weird - that Knoppix has problems with 3Com network cards but boot-floppies can cope OK. I like these cards because they Just Work. I tend to prefer the RTL-8139 based cards because everything supports them.

Re: [OT] Debian advocacy for Smart but Scared People With Lives

2004-10-22 Thread Clive Menzies
On (21/10/04 14:59), s. keeling wrote: Incoming from William Ballard: On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 12:16:21PM -0700, Gilbert, Joseph wrote: session and found that KDE had autodetected my sound card. You may want to have them give Sarge a try. It may be a lot easier than even you suspect...

Re: [OT] Debian advocacy for Smart but Scared People With Lives

2004-10-22 Thread Andy Firman
On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 03:28:05PM -0400, William Ballard wrote: And I spent a month getting all Debian's eyecandy and hardware acceleration working. And mutt was ridiculous at first compared to Outlook. You can say that again!!! It is funny as hell to look back at how foreign it felt

Re: [OT] Debian advocacy for Smart but Scared People With Lives

2004-10-22 Thread Paul Smith
%% Andy Firman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: af He loves the feeling of browsing the repository, picking out games af and educational tools for his kids, and having me install with af apt-get. Why do you have to install it? Put Synaptic onto his system, then he can install anything he wants

Re: [OT] Debian advocacy for Smart but Scared People With Lives

2004-10-22 Thread Jim Hall
William Ballard wrote: My brother in law and nephew are above-average with computer skills but not C programmers. Both are resistant to trying the Knoppix CD I burned for them because I told them it's going to be really hard for them to get their sound card or network card or what have you

Re: [OT] Debian advocacy for Smart but Scared People With Lives

2004-10-22 Thread Jim Hall
William Ballard wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 01:05:04PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: Actually, you did (but not deliberately). Knoppix (from at least this year) gets both up and running automagically. Get them the newest Knoppix, and next time you're over there to fix their Windows system again,

Re: [OT] Debian advocacy for Smart but Scared People With Lives

2004-10-22 Thread Arias Hung
On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Andy Firman wrote: Now he is bragging about it to all the other Cops at the Police Department and they all want Linux desktops now. I thought the subject implied that they had lives too. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe.

Re: [OT] Debian advocacy for Smart but Scared People With Lives

2004-10-22 Thread Ralph Katz
On 10/21/04 15:20, William Ballard wrote: My brother in law and nephew are above-average with computer skills but not C programmers. Both are resistant to trying the Knoppix CD I burned for them because I told them it's going to be really hard for them to get their sound card or network card or

[OT] Debian advocacy for Smart but Scared People With Lives

2004-10-21 Thread William Ballard
My brother in law and nephew are above-average with computer skills but not C programmers. Both are resistant to trying the Knoppix CD I burned for them because I told them it's going to be really hard for them to get their sound card or network card or what have you working -- I didn't lie

RE: [OT] Debian advocacy for Smart but Scared People With Lives

2004-10-21 Thread Gilbert, Joseph
to have them give Sarge a try. It may be a lot easier than even you suspect... keep in mind, that is a may. :-) Joe Gilbert -Original Message- From: William Ballard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 12:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Debian advocacy

Re: [OT] Debian advocacy for Smart but Scared People With Lives

2004-10-21 Thread William Ballard
On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 12:16:21PM -0700, Gilbert, Joseph wrote: session and found that KDE had autodetected my sound card. You may want to have them give Sarge a try. It may be a lot easier than even you suspect... keep in mind, that is a may. :-) This isn't a technical thing, so much as a

RE: [OT] Debian advocacy for Smart but Scared People With Lives

2004-10-21 Thread Gilbert, Joseph
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Debian advocacy for Smart but Scared People With Lives On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 12:16:21PM -0700, Gilbert, Joseph wrote: session and found that KDE had autodetected my sound card. You may want to have them give Sarge a try. It may be a lot easier than even you

Re: [OT] Debian advocacy for Smart but Scared People With Lives

2004-10-21 Thread Paul Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 William Ballard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My brother in law and nephew are above-average with computer skills but not C programmers. Both are resistant to trying the Knoppix CD I burned for them because I told them it's going to be really hard

Re: [OT] Debian advocacy for Smart but Scared People With Lives

2004-10-21 Thread s. keeling
Incoming from William Ballard: On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 12:16:21PM -0700, Gilbert, Joseph wrote: session and found that KDE had autodetected my sound card. You may want to have them give Sarge a try. It may be a lot easier than even you suspect... This isn't a technical thing, so much as

Re: [OT] Debian advocacy for Smart but Scared People With Lives

2004-10-21 Thread William Ballard
On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 01:05:04PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: Actually, you did (but not deliberately). Knoppix (from at least this year) gets both up and running automagically. Get them the newest Knoppix, and next time you're over there to fix their Windows system again, throw Knoppix in

Re: [OT] Debian advocacy for Smart but Scared People With Lives

2004-10-21 Thread Pigeon
On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 04:48:51PM -0400, William Ballard wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 01:05:04PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: Actually, you did (but not deliberately). Knoppix (from at least this year) gets both up and running automagically. Get them the newest Knoppix, and next time

Re: High powered Debian advocacy?

2002-03-25 Thread Manoj Srivastava
Noah == Noah Sombrero [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Noah I can use symlinks, I can copy /usr to a new hd and mount the Noah new hd as /usr. But these things could be unnecessary if a Noah small amount of lee way were built into the system. We appreciate tested patches. manoj --

Re: High powered Debian advocacy?

2002-03-24 Thread Karl E. Jorgensen
On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 06:32:37PM -0600, Nathan E Norman wrote: On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:41:12PM -0800, Noah Sombrero wrote: On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:27:21 -0600, you wrote: Hmm, yes I can move those directories and replace them with links or just mount them to appropriate dirs

Re: Re: Re: High powered Debian advocacy?

2002-03-24 Thread Noah Meyerhans
On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:07:36PM -0800, Noah Sombrero wrote: I have about 60 mb on /usr. A software installing session could use that in nothing flat. I have plenty of room on /mnt, but I have to install by hand to get anything there. Then X doesn't know Symlinks are your friend. noah

Re: High powered Debian advocacy?

2002-03-24 Thread Dimitri Maziuk
* Noah Sombrero ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) spake thusly: On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:32:37 -0600, you wrote: [ Note: I read the list. I don't need nor do I want copies of mail sent to the list. In this case you sent a copy to me with a different message id than what went to the list; something is

Re: Re: Re: Re: High powered Debian advocacy?

2002-03-24 Thread Noah Sombrero
On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:32:58 -0500, you wrote: On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:07:36PM -0800, Noah Sombrero wrote: I have about 60 mb on /usr. A software installing session could use that in nothing flat. I have plenty of room on /mnt, but I have to install by hand to get anything there. Then X

Re: Re: Re: Re: High powered Debian advocacy?

2002-03-24 Thread Peter Whysall
On Sun, 2002-03-24 at 20:08, Noah Sombrero wrote: On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:32:58 -0500, you wrote: On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:07:36PM -0800, Noah Sombrero wrote: I have about 60 mb on /usr. A software installing session could use that in nothing flat. I have plenty of room on /mnt, but I

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: High powered Debian advocacy?

2002-03-24 Thread Peter Whysall
On Mon, 2002-03-25 at 03:05, Noah Sombrero wrote: On 24 Mar 2002 20:18:18 +, you wrote: Do I understand that you want apt to detect when space is short on the target device, and automatically generate symlinked mount points on available devices with sufficient space? If you've got

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: High powered Debian advocacy?

2002-03-24 Thread Noah Sombrero
On 25 Mar 2002 03:20:04 +, you wrote: No, I would just like to be able to specify an alternative destination in the configuration somehow. Do you mean in the same way as rpm --relocate foo.rpm ? Don't have any experience with Red Hat. Another person suggested that it is possible to

Re: Re: High powered Debian advocacy?

2002-03-23 Thread Noah Sombrero
On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:35:01 -0600, you wrote: From personal experience, installing things in /opt/foo and using stow to link them to /usr/local sucks in many interesting ways (at least on Solaris). So don't think FHS mandates that because FHS is stupid. I can manually install packages on

Re: RE: Re: Re: High powered Debian advocacy?

2002-03-23 Thread Noah Sombrero
On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:13:49 -, you wrote: hi, couldn't you copy over /usr to a new drive and then mount the new drive to /usr ??? Chris I think that is the best suggestion that I have received. In fact, I probably will do that. But, my gut feeling is that computers should serve us

Re: High powered Debian advocacy?

2002-03-23 Thread Gary Turner
On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:32:00 -0800, Noah Sombrero wrote: I don't understand your problem. Are you out of disc space, or did you just mis-apportion your partitions? Either way the problem is not that packagers set up their apps to reside in /usr. The problem is that you need to re-partition or

Re: Re: High powered Debian advocacy?

2002-03-23 Thread Noah Sombrero
I don't understand your problem. Are you out of disc space, or did you just mis-apportion your partitions? Either way the problem is not that packagers set up their apps to reside in /usr. The problem is that you need to re-partition or get another disc. Inflexibility in the face of limited

Re: Re: Re: Re: High powered Debian advocacy?

2002-03-23 Thread Nathan E Norman
On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:41:12PM -0800, Noah Sombrero wrote: On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:27:21 -0600, you wrote: Hmm, yes I can move those directories and replace them with links or just mount them to appropriate dirs under /usr. Did not think of that. But still, apt has this little flaw

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: High powered Debian advocacy?

2002-03-23 Thread Noah Sombrero
On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:32:37 -0600, you wrote: [ Note: I read the list. I don't need nor do I want copies of mail sent to the list. In this case you sent a copy to me with a different message id than what went to the list; something is broken at your end. Please respect my Mail-Followup-To:

Re: Re: Re: Re: High powered Debian advocacy?

2002-03-23 Thread Noah Sombrero
On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:27:21 -0600, you wrote: Hmm, yes I can move those directories and replace them with links or just mount them to appropriate dirs under /usr. Did not think of that. But still, apt has this little flaw it seems to me. apt is flawed because your /usr/partition is too

Re: High powered Debian advocacy?

2002-03-23 Thread Gary Turner
On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:11:15 -0800, Noah Sombrero wrote: On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:13:49 -, you wrote: hi, couldn't you copy over /usr to a new drive and then mount the new drive to /usr ??? Chris I think that is the best suggestion that I have received. In fact, I probably will do that.

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