On 10/10/2014 01:10 PM, James Ensor wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Bob Holtzman wrote:
>>
>> All well and good but what happens when sysv* get purged from the repos?
>>
>
> When is this going to happen?
>
>
I'm not aware of any intention to purge sysvinit-core from jessie or
sid. The
On 10/11/2014 12:20 PM, Brian wrote:
> On Sat 11 Oct 2014 at 12:49:15 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 13:53:20 +0300
>> Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>>
>>> You might want to check your facts:
>>>
>>> Linus Torvalds "only" created the Linux kernel, which is notoriously
>>> monolithic[1
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On 12/10/2014 4:01 AM, James Ensor wrote:
> What I was trying to say here is that people seem to want to debate
> the philosophy/quality/whatever about systemd, and have used this to
> come to wrong conclusions about the practical aspect of using an
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On 11/10/2014 2:01 AM, James Ensor wrote:
> The point of this thread was to demonstrate that you *do* still have a
> choice. It's relatively simple to remove systemd from your Debian
> installation if you choose to.
In the short term, sure, but in
On 10/10/2014 8:44 AM, James Ensor wrote:
> But, to get more to the point of my original question, there has been
> so much discussion about systemd here, but as far as I can tell very
> little of this discussion has been of practical use for a debian-user.
Are you crazy, people are having problem
John Hasler wrote:
Reco writes:
One must be *very* careful to wish for - [1]. OK, that's not pure LISP,
it's Scheme :)
[1] http://www.gnu.org/software/guix/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_machine
And a beautiful machine it was, too.
Miles
--
In theory, there is no difference between the
On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 09:23:08PM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Sb, 11 oct 14, 13:01:38, James Ensor wrote:
> >
> > And, just for the record, I started this exercise just because I was
> > curious what would happen if I removed systemd. I don't claim to
> > understand all the complexities of
Testing, here.
Just want to check whether I get filtered out from here, as well.
(Two responses to a thread that invites discussion of the /usr merge
have not made it to the list yet.)
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Reco writes:
> One must be *very* careful to wish for - [1]. OK, that's not pure LISP,
> it's Scheme :)
> [1] http://www.gnu.org/software/guix/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_machine
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On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 22:58:18 +0200
Peter Nieman wrote:
> Didn't Mr. Poettering make it sufficiently clear in numerous speeches
> that the ultimate goal of the systemd people was to create an
> entirely new OS? Just listen to the first two minutes of the first
> youtube video you get when search
On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 17:16:05 -0400
Miles Fidelman wrote:
> Reco wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 20:11:57 +0100
> > Brian wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat 11 Oct 2014 at 13:00:12 -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> >>
> >>> I fear that we are living the axiom, "Those who do not understand UNIX
> >>>
On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 20:03:18 +0100
Martin Read wrote:
> On 11/10/14 19:00, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> > This is the question I have, what are the stated boundaries of the
> > systemd project? Have any boundaries/goals been stated in terms of
> > when systemd will be feature complete? What is the st
On Sat 11 Oct 2014 at 16:16:05 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> From what I've heard on this list, Xfce has drunk the systemd koolaid.
What have you heard? Have you a link on -user to give us so we can judge
for ourselves?
> If that's true, screw em, they're not the only game in town. If nothing
Love
Reco wrote:
Hi.
On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 20:11:57 +0100
Brian wrote:
On Sat 11 Oct 2014 at 13:00:12 -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
I fear that we are living the axiom, "Those who do not understand UNIX
are condemned to reinvent it, poorly."
That is a misquote. Understandable when it is all over
On 11/10/14 20:00, Nate Bargmann wrote:
This is the question I have, what are the stated boundaries of the
systemd project? Have any boundaries/goals been stated in terms of when
systemd will be feature complete?
Didn't Mr. Poettering make it sufficiently clear in numerous speeches
that the u
On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 20:06:14 +0200
Slavko wrote:
> Ahoj,
>
> Dňa Sat, 11 Oct 2014 18:41:12 +0100 Brian
> napísal:
>
> > And to illustrate how much work Debian maintainers put in to respond
> > to users' concerns:
> >
> > root@gnome-jessie:~# apt-get install sysvinit-core systemd-shim
> >
On Sb, 11 oct 14, 12:40:58, Bob Holtzman wrote:
>
> I don't have a task or a mission here. I simply asked a question.
And the answer is: dependencies don't start their existence by
installing the depended-on package. If this is not what you meant by
"entanglement" please clarify.
Kind regards
On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 12:16:57AM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 10 Oct 2014 at 15:31:35 -0700, Bob Holtzman wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 12:16:23PM -0400, James Ensor wrote:
> > > Please reply to the list and not directly to me.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 11:39 AM, PETER Z
Hi.
On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 20:11:57 +0100
Brian wrote:
> On Sat 11 Oct 2014 at 13:00:12 -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
>
> > I fear that we are living the axiom, "Those who do not understand UNIX
> > are condemned to reinvent it, poorly."
>
> That is a misquote. Understandable when it is all over t
On Sat 11 Oct 2014 at 13:00:12 -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> I fear that we are living the axiom, "Those who do not understand UNIX
> are condemned to reinvent it, poorly."
That is a misquote. Understandable when it is all over the web and comes
up with a search engine, so don't worry about it. I
On Sat 11 Oct 2014 at 20:06:14 +0200, Slavko wrote:
> Ahoj,
>
> Dňa Sat, 11 Oct 2014 18:41:12 +0100 Brian
> napísal:
>
> > What more could a Debian user want?
>
> I don't know what other users want, but i tried it some days ago (when
> the latest version of the systemd comes into testing) and
On 11/10/14 19:00, Nate Bargmann wrote:
This is the question I have, what are the stated boundaries of the
systemd project? Have any boundaries/goals been stated in terms of when
systemd will be feature complete? What is the stated compliance to
POSIX (Google doesn't seem to provide me good res
On Sat 11 Oct 2014 at 12:49:15 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 13:53:20 +0300
> Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>
> > You might want to check your facts:
> >
> > Linus Torvalds "only" created the Linux kernel, which is notoriously
> > monolithic[1].
> >
> > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/w
On Sat 11 Oct 2014 at 13:01:38 -0400, James Ensor wrote:
> No, I don't think you are missing anything, I just did a really bad
> job at translating things from my head to my keyboard, and I confused
> two arguments Part of that is that I've lost track of who is
> saying what.
>
> In my origi
On Sb, 11 oct 14, 13:01:38, James Ensor wrote:
>
> And, just for the record, I started this exercise just because I was
> curious what would happen if I removed systemd. I don't claim to
> understand all the complexities of init systems (as you have been able
> to tell). Honestly my system seeme
Hi.
On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 19:41:31 +0300
Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Sb, 11 oct 14, 19:12:38, Reco wrote:
> >
> > Upstream already did it for you - [1]. Actual maximum number is 69. And
> > that's not compile options, that's number of resulting binaries.
> >
> >
> > > (no, I won't be bothered
Ahoj,
Dňa Sat, 11 Oct 2014 18:41:12 +0100 Brian
napísal:
> And to illustrate how much work Debian maintainers put in to respond
> to users' concerns:
>
> root@gnome-jessie:~# apt-get install sysvinit-core systemd-shim
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading
* On 2014 11 Oct 12:11 -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 13:53:20 +0300
> Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > You might want to check your facts:
> >
> > Linus Torvalds "only" created the Linux kernel, which is notoriously
> > monolithic[1].
> >
> > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanenbau
On Sat 11 Oct 2014 at 07:38:42 -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 10/10/2014 at 07:53 PM, James Ensor wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:31 PM, John Hasler
> > wrote:
> >
> >> James Ensor writes:
> >>
> >>> My impression is that the idea of "systemd's entanglement" has
> >>> been blown way ou
On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 7:38 AM, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 10/10/2014 at 07:53 PM, James Ensor wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:31 PM, John Hasler
>> wrote:
>>
>>> James Ensor writes:
>>>
My impression is that the idea of "systemd's entanglement" has
been blown way out of proportion
On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 13:53:20 +0300
Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Vi, 10 oct 14, 06:57:18, PETER ZOELLER wrote:
> > This is really ticking me off. We are becoming just like Microsoft
> > that one size fits all. Linux has always been about choice and
> > modularity and reconfigurability where a us
On Sb, 11 oct 14, 19:12:38, Reco wrote:
>
> Upstream already did it for you - [1]. Actual maximum number is 69. And
> that's not compile options, that's number of resulting binaries.
>
>
> > (no, I won't be bothered to look up all systemd compile options)
>
> [2] shows actual compile options e
Добрый день.
--
С уважением, Олег Слабоспицкий
консультант по ПО Oracle
ЗАО РДТЕХ
On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 15:24:09 +0300
Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Sb, 11 oct 14, 15:56:02, Reco wrote:
> > On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 13:53:20 +0300
> > Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > >
> > > Linus Torvalds "only" created the
On Sb, 11 oct 14, 15:56:02, Reco wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 13:53:20 +0300
> Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> >
> > Linus Torvalds "only" created the Linux kernel, which is notoriously
> > monolithic[1].
> >
> > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanenbaum%E2%80%93Torvalds_debate
>
> Yet, being monoli
Hi.
On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 13:53:20 +0300
Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Vi, 10 oct 14, 06:57:18, PETER ZOELLER wrote:
> > This is really ticking me off. We are becoming just like Microsoft
> > that one size fits all. Linux has always been about choice and
> > modularity and reconfigurability wher
On 10/10/2014 at 07:53 PM, James Ensor wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:31 PM, John Hasler
> wrote:
>
>> James Ensor writes:
>>
>>> My impression is that the idea of "systemd's entanglement" has
>>> been blown way out of proportion.
>>
>> The entanglement discussed here earlier had to do wit
On Vi, 10 oct 14, 06:57:18, PETER ZOELLER wrote:
> This is really ticking me off. We are becoming just like Microsoft
> that one size fits all. Linux has always been about choice and
> modularity and reconfigurability where a user or admin can choose that
> what suits him/her and the type of s
On Sb, 11 oct 14, 11:18:10, Martin Read wrote:
>
> Failure of the Debian Installer to offer a convenient mechanism for
> selecting the init system to be installed can reasonably be argued to be a
> bug in the installer, which you might want to consider reporting.
But most likely severity 'wishlis
On 10/10/14 18:15, PETER ZOELLER wrote:
And this is being hard coded in my opinion since it forces it to be
installed as a default with no other option given and required for
example if you want to use Gnome.
It turns out to be the case that cases where Gnome fails to operate
correctly without
On Vi, 10 oct 14, 20:57:09, Peter Zoeller wrote:
> I tell you what why don't you install Fedora the originator of this and try
> to remove systemd and install sysvinit or Upstart and then we will talk.
> Left Fedora for this very reason, lack of choice.
As far as I understand Fedora has different
Ahoj,
Dňa Fri, 10 Oct 2014 23:31:02 +0100 Brian
napísal:
> On Fri 10 Oct 2014 at 21:00:41 +0200, Slavko wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > LANG=C aptpu libsystemd-login0 libsystemd-daemon0
> > The following packages will be REMOVED:
>
> [Snip]
>
> > cups-daemon : Depends: libsystemd-daemon0 (>= 31)
On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 22:12:14 +0100 Brian sent:
> > Just for kicks, I also purged cgmanager. I guess I like to live
> > dangerously. Nothing bad seems to have happened.
I must be living dangerously to, because I don't even have cgmanager
installed?
Charlie
--
Registered Linux User:- 32
On 10/10/2014 07:53 PM, James Ensor wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:31 PM, John Hasler wrote:
>> James Ensor writes:
>>> My impression is that the idea of "systemd's entanglement" has been
>>> blown way out of proportion.
>>
>> The entanglement discussed here earlier had to do with the design o
I tell you what why don't you install Fedora the originator of this and
try to remove systemd and install sysvinit or Upstart and then we will
talk. Left Fedora for this very reason, lack of choice.
On 10/10/14 07:16 PM, Brian wrote:
On Fri 10 Oct 2014 at 15:31:35 -0700, Bob Holtzman wrote:
On Fri 10 Oct 2014 at 18:50:48 -0400, James Ensor wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 5:12 PM, Brian wrote:
>
> > Why install sysv-rc, sysvinit and sysvinit-utils? To change from systemd
> > to sysvinit it is surely enough to do
> >
> > aptitude install sysvinit-core
>
> I did that because I
On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:31 PM, John Hasler wrote:
> James Ensor writes:
>> My impression is that the idea of "systemd's entanglement" has been
>> blown way out of proportion.
>
> The entanglement discussed here earlier had to do with the design of the
> Systemd suite, not with dependencies.
> --
James Ensor writes:
> My impression is that the idea of "systemd's entanglement" has been
> blown way out of proportion.
The entanglement discussed here earlier had to do with the design of the
Systemd suite, not with dependencies.
--
John Hasler
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA
--
To UNSU
On Fri 10 Oct 2014 at 15:31:35 -0700, Bob Holtzman wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 12:16:23PM -0400, James Ensor wrote:
> > Please reply to the list and not directly to me.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 11:39 AM, PETER ZOELLER
> > wrote:
> > > Hi:
> > >
> > > I'm sorry but I shouldn't ha
> What about systemd's entanglement? From what I read here, once it's
> installed there are certain programs that depend on it. Not true?
No idea what you mean by that. Programs either depend on other programs
or they don't.
--
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Elmwood, WI USA
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On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 6:31 PM, Bob Holtzman wrote:
>
> What about systemd's entanglement? From what I read here, once it's
> installed there are certain programs that depend on it. Not true?
>
Some programs depend on systemd, but I'm not using any of them
anymore, since they did not impact the
On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 5:12 PM, Brian wrote:
- snip -
>
> Anyway, that's enough of this advocacy lark, we will look at the
> technical points you posted about. They are worth a look or two/
>
> > looking to wade into any arguments about systemd. I certainly do not
> > claim to have solved any
On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 12:16:23PM -0400, James Ensor wrote:
> Please reply to the list and not directly to me.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 11:39 AM, PETER ZOELLER
> wrote:
> > Hi:
> >
> > I'm sorry but I shouldn't have to remove systemd but be given a choice as to
> > which one I want at the
Keith Peter writes:
> Are you printing from your machine? Does WICD need wpasupplicant? Have
> I misunderstood?
Cups is not the only way to print.
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Elmwood, WI USA
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On Fri 10 Oct 2014 at 21:00:41 +0200, Slavko wrote:
[snip]
> LANG=C aptpu libsystemd-login0 libsystemd-daemon0
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[Snip]
> cups-daemon : Depends: libsystemd-daemon0 (>= 31) but it is not going to be
> installed.
If you are going to provide information
On Thu 09 Oct 2014 at 17:44:20 -0400, James Ensor wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 10:36 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> >
> > James,
> >
> > Please, please, *please* write down a detailed article on exactly
> > how you did this. I'll help you if you'd like --- I write for a living,
> > a lot of it tech w
On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Keith Peter wrote:
>
> Hello James and all
>
> I found (when I tried a light system with sysvinit) that cups and
> wpasupplicant needed a few systemd libraries.
>
> See
>
> http://sohcahtoa.org.uk/osd.html
>
> Are you printing from your machine? Does WICD need wpas
On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Bob Holtzman wrote:
>
> All well and good but what happens when sysv* get purged from the repos?
>
When is this going to happen?
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>
> It seems to be simple, but have you tried it?
>
Yes, and it succeeded for me
>> aptitude install sysv-rc sysvinit sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils
>
> LANG=C dpkg -l sysv-rc sysvinit sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils
> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
> |
Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/h
On Thu, Oct 09, 2014 at 05:44:20PM -0400, James Ensor wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 10:36 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 8 Oct 2014 19:58:13 -0400
> > James Ensor wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I don't have a strong opinion about systemd one way or the other, but
> > > even after all o
Ahoj,
Dňa Fri, 10 Oct 2014 13:22:06 -0400 James Ensor
napísal:
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Slavko wrote:
> > Ahoj,
> >
> > Dňa Fri, 10 Oct 2014 12:16:23 -0400 James Ensor
> > napísal:
> >
> >> I made no assumptions, as I had absolutely nothing to do with the
> >> decision of making sys
* On 2014 10 Oct 08:39 -0500, Rob Owens wrote:
> - Original Message -
> > From: "Nate Bargmann"
> >
> > I just went ahead and went back to sysvinit-core and in the process
> > started purging packages in Aptitude! At the end policykit, packagekit,
> > rtkit, and systemd were excised and a
On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Slavko wrote:
> Ahoj,
>
> Dňa Fri, 10 Oct 2014 12:16:23 -0400 James Ensor
> napísal:
>
>> I made no assumptions, as I had absolutely nothing to do with the
>> decision of making systemd the default init system. I merely point
>> out that it is possible (and quit
On 10/10/2014 at 12:52 PM, Slavko wrote:
> Ahoj,
>
> Dňa Fri, 10 Oct 2014 12:16:23 -0400 James Ensor
> napísal:
>
>> I made no assumptions, as I had absolutely nothing to do with the
>> decision of making systemd the default init system. I merely
>> point out that it is possible (and quite ea
The point I am making is that Linux is moving away from a modular system open
to change, choice and reconfiguration to one where one person or small group of
people decide to hard code something into the system. And this is being hard
coded in my opinion since it forces it to be installed as a
Ahoj,
Dňa Fri, 10 Oct 2014 12:16:23 -0400 James Ensor
napísal:
> I made no assumptions, as I had absolutely nothing to do with the
> decision of making systemd the default init system. I merely point
> out that it is possible (and quite easy) for a debian-user to remove
> systemd.
Please, don'
Please reply to the list and not directly to me.
On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 11:39 AM, PETER ZOELLER
wrote:
> Hi:
>
> I'm sorry but I shouldn't have to remove systemd but be given a choice as to
> which one I want at the time of the install just as I choose my file system,
> my software, my networki
On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 9:57 AM, PETER ZOELLER wrote:
> This is really ticking me off. We are becoming just like Microsoft that one
> size fits all. Linux has always been about choice and modularity and
> reconfigurability where a user or admin can choose that what suits him/her
> and the type o
This is really ticking me off. We are becoming just like Microsoft that one
size fits all. Linux has always been about choice and modularity and
reconfigurability where a user or admin can choose that what suits him/her and
the type of system they want. You want sysvinit you use Debian or Sla
- Original Message -
> From: "Nate Bargmann"
>
> I just went ahead and went back to sysvinit-core and in the process
> started purging packages in Aptitude! At the end policykit, packagekit,
> rtkit, and systemd were excised and a whole host of other stuff I
> couldn't find a reason to ke
Reco wrote:
> You haven't took into account journald, which uses /run (mounted
> in-memory) to write its' own blobs. With the limit of 1/2 of available
> physical memory by default.
That's wrong by nearly 2 orders of magnitude..
journald avoids using more than 10% of the size of /run by default,
2014/10/10 9:03 "Steve Litt" :
>
> [...]
> LOL, the more people bust old features putting in new features, the
> more I kludge.
And that sums the entire argument up nicely, perhaps.
:-(
Joel Rees
Computer memory is just fancy paper,
CPUs just fancy pens.
All is a stream of text
flowing from the
* On 2014 09 Oct 19:03 -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> Half the distros I've used couldn't mount flash drives. If systemd
> takes away that ability, screw it, I'll do what I've always done, have
> mount NOPASSORD in sudoers, and write a little shellscript, a couple
> keystrokes called by dmenu, that mou
On Thu, 9 Oct 2014 17:59:49 -0500
Nate Bargmann wrote:
> * On 2014 09 Oct 17:51 -0500, James Ensor wrote:
> > Just for kicks, I also purged cgmanager. I guess I like to live
> > dangerously. Nothing bad seems to have happened.
>
> I am very curious how you dealt with policykit? Or do you not
On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 6:59 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> * On 2014 09 Oct 17:51 -0500, James Ensor wrote:
>> Just for kicks, I also purged cgmanager. I guess I like to live
>> dangerously. Nothing bad seems to have happened.
>
> I am very curious how you dealt with policykit? Or do you not mount
* On 2014 09 Oct 17:51 -0500, James Ensor wrote:
> Just for kicks, I also purged cgmanager. I guess I like to live
> dangerously. Nothing bad seems to have happened.
I am very curious how you dealt with policykit? Or do you not mount USB
flash drives? I'm a bit fed up that mounting a USB flash
On Thursday 09 October 2014 22:44:20 James Ensor wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 10:36 PM, Steve Litt
wrote:
> > On Wed, 8 Oct 2014 19:58:13 -0400
> >
> > James Ensor wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I don't have a strong opinion about systemd one way or the other, but
> > > even after all of the de
On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 10:36 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
>
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2014 19:58:13 -0400
> James Ensor wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I don't have a strong opinion about systemd one way or the other, but
> > even after all of the debate and discussion that has been going on,
> > it was still not clear
On Thu, 09 Oct 2014 20:25:32 +0200
Sven Joachim wrote:
> On 2014-10-09 19:48 +0200, Reco wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 09 Oct 2014 19:17:46 +0200
> > Erwan David wrote:
> >
> > That's one of the reasons I'm thinking to postpone that-pid1-process
> > migration to jessie+1. I can understand the need of ki
On 2014-10-09 19:48 +0200, Reco wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Oct 2014 19:17:46 +0200
> Erwan David wrote:
>
> That's one of the reasons I'm thinking to postpone that-pid1-process
> migration to jessie+1. I can understand the need of killing a useful
> tool for the greater cause (being upstream), but the t
Hi.
On Thu, 09 Oct 2014 19:17:46 +0200
Erwan David wrote:
> > So, if one is willing to do all it takes to remove said-pid1-process
> > from the typical server installation - it's doable. But from the
> > desktop one - it's much harder.
> >
>
> However I have server with special setting that to
Le 09/10/2014 17:12, Reco a écrit :
> Hi.
>
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2014 22:36:46 -0400
> Steve Litt wrote:
>
>> If what you did works for everybody when Jessie goes stable, you've
>> just singlehandedly ended this whole argument.
> That's a short-term solution at best. Because of:
>
> 1) Jessie isn't st
Doug writes:
> I thought I read that systemd-shim is not being supplied anymore?
Systemd-shim 8-2 is in both Jessie and Sid.
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John Hasler
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Elmwood, WI USA
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On 10/09/2014 04:45 AM, Joe wrote:
On Wed, 8 Oct 2014 22:36:46 -0400
Steve Litt wrote:
/snip/
We've had the instructions to revert on this list recently, but it's
basically a matter of installing systemd-shim and sysvinit-core
(assuming you have a system which once ran on sysvinit) and hunt
* On 2014 09 Oct 10:20 -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> I think if you wanted daemons runlevel specific, you'd need to write
> that into the daemontools run script, but I'm not sure how many people
> still use runlevels anyway. Most desktop people always boot to 5, and
> it wouldn't violate the sensibili
On Thu, 09 Oct 2014 10:16:47 -0400
Tanstaafl wrote:
> On 10/8/2014 10:36 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> > If what you did works for everybody when Jessie goes stable, you've
> > just singlehandedly ended this whole argument.
>
> Not really.
>
> Just because it can be done easily now, doesn't mean it
Hi.
On Wed, 8 Oct 2014 22:36:46 -0400
Steve Litt wrote:
> If what you did works for everybody when Jessie goes stable, you've
> just singlehandedly ended this whole argument.
That's a short-term solution at best. Because of:
1) Jessie isn't stable yet. Moreover, it's not even in freeze.
Hence
On Thu, 9 Oct 2014 09:45:02 +0100
Joe wrote:
> I think the real issue is that nobody likes maintaining sysvinit
> scripts. It's quite right that the job of running a piece of software
> should be the responsibility of the upstream software writers, not the
> distribution package maintainer, but
Tanstaafl writes:
> Just because it can be done easily now, doesn't mean it will be as
> easy - or even possible - a year or more from now - and I think *that*
> is the overriding concern of people who express legitimate concerns.
That, and the fact that there will be many "special cases" where it
On 10/8/2014 10:36 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> If what you did works for everybody when Jessie goes stable, you've
> just singlehandedly ended this whole argument.
Not really.
Just because it can be done easily now, doesn't mean it will be as easy
- or even possible - a year or more from now - and I
On 10/09/2014 04:45 AM, Joe wrote:
And I have an old laptop and a virtual installation on a Windows
laptop, both on sysvinit. But both exist for a small set of purposes,
and have nothing like the range of software on my workstation, so I
don't know what they tell us. They also only get upgraded
On Wed, 8 Oct 2014 22:36:46 -0400
Steve Litt wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2014 19:58:13 -0400
> James Ensor wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I don't have a strong opinion about systemd one way or the other,
> > but even after all of the debate and discussion that has been going
> > on, it was still not clea
On Wed, 8 Oct 2014 19:58:13 -0400
James Ensor wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I don't have a strong opinion about systemd one way or the other, but
> even after all of the debate and discussion that has been going on,
> it was still not clear to me if systemd is something that is required
> to be run, or if it
Hi,
I don't have a strong opinion about systemd one way or the other, but even
after all of the debate and discussion that has been going on, it was still
not clear to me if systemd is something that is required to be run, or if
it's just a default init system that can be changed.
So I went ahead
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