Re: 2025 Jump-start [WAS: Welcome new VP, Diversity and Inclusion]

Hi, Good to hear we have a VP again! > I'd also like to invite any other members or committers of the foundation to > volunteer for the committee, either by replying on this list (which is a > public mailing list, FYI) or by sending me a private reply with your ASF > username. I’d be happy t

Re: 2022 ASF Community Survey

Hi, JFYI - I don’t know how the survey was set out but I did not receive it and it didn’t end up in spam as far as I can see. Kind Regards, Justin

Re: [DRAFT] Board resolution to remove gender-specific terms from Bylaws

Hi Craig, Looks good to me. Thanks, Justin

dev@diversity.apache.org

hi, Hows the survey coming along? Do we know when some results will be shared? Thanks, Justin

Linux Foundation and diversity funding

Hi, Probably old news but I just noticed here [1] "100% of donations received go towards funding diversity programs.“ Not sure if that includes sponsorship fee or not. Thanks, Justin 1. https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/donate/

Re: Introductions to have EDI representation at the ASF booth at FOSDEM

Hi, >> All that's needed is to coordinate a date and time for Daniel to be at the >> booth, have a laptop with access to the internet so we can open the survey >> in case someone wants to complete it and have a system to sign up people >> interested in participating in the UX Research for contribu

Exam scores rank privilege not academic merit

HI, Interesting one person’s story about access to education and outcomes: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-22/atar-measure-privilege-not-academic-merit/11817974 This is Australian based so may use some educational terms you're not familiar with: HSC = Higher School Certificate (Year 12 high

Re: Target Launch Date for the 2020 ASF Community Survey

Hi, Where can we find the text of the emails that will be sent out? Thanks, Justin

Re: Vote on Technical Approach for Survey was Re: Survey Diversity and Inclusion

Hi, > Niclas is absolutely correct here. The decision belongs to Gris. She may > treat the results of the vote any way she pleases. I believe she has > already expressed a preference. There is no deadlock here. Why call for a vote then? Thanks, Justin

Re: Vote on Technical Approach for Survey was Re: Survey Diversity and Inclusion

Hi, > Did I miss the formation of a PMC? AFAIK, there is no PMC, and Gris is > treating the participation any way she likes. Sorry I misspoke, people on the committee votes shod be binding. [1] Thanks, Justin 1. https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/nonpmc/diversity

Re: Vote on Technical Approach for Survey was Re: Survey Diversity and Inclusion

Hi, > Knowing the response rate anonymously is important and using a mailing list > will not let that happen. Yes it will we know how many are subscribed and we’ll know how many people have filled it in. > Perfection is the enemy of progress. Please make a vote. I’m +0 because of the risks

Re: Vote on Technical Approach for Survey was Re: Survey Diversity and Inclusion

Hi, > Preface: I think the statement of misuse potential is an insult to the > people involved. We’ve had several groups misuse data like this in the past and like all software LimeSurvey has security issues [1]. The risk may be low but it exists. > However, they then created their list by scra

Re: Vote on Technical Approach for Survey was Re: Survey Diversity and Inclusion

Hi, > People filter those more often. I’m not sure how other people use filters but I tend to use them for a) emails that I want to pay more attention and respond right away and b) emails that I’ll look at at a later time. I filter emails sent to my apache.org address but don’t filter those s

Re: Vote on Technical Approach for Survey was Re: Survey Diversity and Inclusion

HI, > I also haven't hear from legal-discuss on the gift card side, so it looks > like we won't have an incentive program for the survey. If this is combines > with a general email to committers@, we are basically setting ourselves up > for lower and lower response rate. IMO An email to committer

Re: Survey Diversity and Inclusion

Hi, > I haven't heard back from anyone about this. I believe the a meeting today/tomorrow to sort out the final details of the survey questions. A post shovel appear on this list which what was decided what teh final form of the survey will be. I’m not sure if anything has been done about the

Re: Vote on Technical Approach for Survey was Re: Survey Diversity and Inclusion

Hi, > This is not going to reach all contributors but all committers. OK. I assume you are aware that the intent is/was to send to a wider list that that? > We are relying on their @apache.org address working. OK so it will only be sent to committers thanks for clearing that up. > That would

Re: Vote on Technical Approach for Survey was Re: Survey Diversity and Inclusion

Hi, The english privacy policy that was posted before can be found here [1] It seems to be about their website not about any email addresses we provide them with or their survey system. Do we know how they treat that data? Thanks, Justin 1. https://www.limesurvey.org/policies/privacy-policy

Re: Vote on Technical Approach for Survey was Re: Survey Diversity and Inclusion

Hi, > The list will be all availids. Is that all emails people have subscribed to all lists or just certain lists? Or something based on Apache IDs? Or what's recorded in LDAP? Each of this is going to generate a different set of email addresses. Some things that come to mind. Have these been

Re: Vote on Technical Approach for Survey was Re: Survey Diversity and Inclusion

Hi Georg, Thanks for clearing up how that will work. > To send out invites through LimeSurvey, it requires creating a “participant > table”. > Every participant is assigned a token, to track whether the participant > responded or not. > Again, the responses are anonymous and no link between the

Re: Vote on Technical Approach for Survey was Re: Survey Diversity and Inclusion

Hi, I think a little more information is needed before we can vote on this. > The goal of this change is technical to limit spamming How exactly does this limit spamming? Is the list sent to to a subset of the committers list or larger than it? > Therefore, I call a vote and +1 to use limesurv

Re: Survey Diversity and Inclusion

Hi, I would also be uncomfortable in creating a list of people to email and making that available even internally. Pervious experience with surveys (non D&I) at the ASF have shown several times that mistake are made and/or emails addresses harvested without permission. If we do go down that pat

Re: Survey Diversity and Inclusion

Hi, Given all members are very likely to be committers I'm not 100% sure we would need to send to both? What is the intent here? Thanks, Justin On Tue, 29 Oct 2019, 17:10 Gris Cuevas, wrote: > Hi folks, > > We are just planning to send two emails, one to committers@ and one to > members@ with a

Re: Survey Diversity and Inclusion

Hi, We want to try and include all we can but there some logistics issues that might get in the way: - We don’t have a list of all contributors or an email alias we can use to send something to all of them - Working out that list of email addresses would be hard and require harvesting emails fr

[jira] [Commented] (DI-30) Create an Apache Alias for Bitergia's communications

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DI-30?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=16958838#comment-16958838 ] Justin Mclean commented on DI-30: - Is there a reason for the replies need to go bac

Re: Survey Diversity and Inclusion

Hi, Hi Sally I’ve already spoken to Katia offlist about use of the contributor email list. The messages were not moderated through so no harm done. I feel it's going to be difficult (and perhaps problematic) to email all contributors, emailing all committers (like the last survey) is easier. An

Re: Survey Diversity and Inclusion

Hi, Opps, send pressed too quick. As Greg says we’ll need to take caution and review any email before it sent out to such a wide distribution. Thanks, Justin

[jira] [Commented] (DI-29) Survey for feedback

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DI-29?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=16957728#comment-16957728 ] Justin Mclean commented on DI-29: - I'm also a little confused on how it's int

[jira] [Commented] (DI-29) Survey for feedback

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DI-29?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=16956750#comment-16956750 ] Justin Mclean commented on DI-29: - The survey as it is currently is has some issues a

Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback

Hi, Can we keep this conversation to one list please, dev@commuity and committers@ are going to have large numbers of people who may not want to be involved in this discussion. I agree that the process could have been handled better, and was a little surprised that actions were being taken wit

Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback

Hi, I see the notes say that "the survey is open to any kind contributor - so anyone who is subscribed to the Mailing Lists.” My understanding was that it open to all committers and that's a much much smaller set of people than anyone who is subscribed to a mailing list. Is my understanding inc

Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback

Hi, > We are going to share the meeting minutes of yesterday’s meeting soon! Any progress on this? Ideally is should be done right after the meeting, otherwise ofter in the community who were not at the meeting are at a disadvantage as they don’t know what was discussed. If any decisions where

Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback

HI, I assume this meeting was held? Please don’t forget to bring back to the mailing list what was discussed and decided. Thanks, Justin

Re: [Research] Selecting time for weekly meeting w/ Bitergia

Hi, > Again, the meetings will be just to provide a time to work on things that > are needed and email can't facilitate. No need for everyone to attend. All good by me. The advice Matt and others gave is useful. Thanks, Justin

Re: [Research] Selecting time for weekly meeting w/ Bitergia

HI, Is there really a need for synchronous meetings? None of the time given work for me and they are all between 1am and 5am my time (Sydney). Thanks, Justin

[jira] [Commented] (DI-28) Join the D&I Research working group

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DI-28?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=16935615#comment-16935615 ] Justin Mclean commented on DI-28: - Fine by me also. > Join the D&I Research wo

[jira] [Commented] (DI-28) Join the D&I Research working group

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DI-28?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=16933029#comment-16933029 ] Justin Mclean commented on DI-28: - Would be nice to have a little more detail on the a

Re: [Input needed] Project scope for survey and contributor experience research

Hi, > However, nothing should prevent them from using email-based feedback as > an additional channel, especially when surveying a wider audience. +1 Making it a short meeting at a certain time will make it difficult for interested people from multiple time zones to attend and provide feedback.

Re: [Input needed] Project scope for survey and contributor experience research

Hi, > I received an initial project scope from Bitergia [1] and I'd like to get > your input on what you think about the milestones and deliverables we have > outlined. There seems to be a number of synchronous items in the plan to collect feedback which doesn’t work well with how the ASF op

Re: [SUGGESTION] translation services

Hi, > In the meantime, I'd be happy to explore a short term solution: localization > of the most required resources for the incubator. Could you share a list of > the the documents you'd need localized into Chinese? I can source a vendor > and get a quote. Some of the incubator pages need a

Re: [SUGGESTION] translation services

Hi, Given the majority of people involved at the ASF speak or read some English what may be of more use is to simplify the language in our pages we use. This has been discussed before and we even had a great example of it. Re translation we have many people who speak more than one language and co

[jira] [Commented] (DI-11) Build an Apache Diversity and Inclusion Website

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DI-11?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=16894581#comment-16894581 ] Justin Mclean commented on DI-11: - JFYI - There a few other ways of doing this: -

Re: Open source as employment?

Hi, This may also be of use [1][2]. There's a section on employment. In short 70% are employed of those 65% contribute to OS, but less are allowed to contribute at work due to IP concerns. Thanks, Justin 1. https://github.com/github/open-source-survey 2. https://opensourcesurvey.org/2017/

Re: Open source as employment?

Hi, > Unfortunately, such calculations don't help if there is statistical bias[2] > involved. Sure 100% agree. Hopefully the new survey will take that into account or at least explain what they might be. BTW tis he analysis of all committer names gave the same percentage for gender and ethni

Re: Open source as employment?

Hi, > Ok, cool... so 50% of those that like to reply to, and have time for, > surveys… It probably a little more representative than you may think. While there might be a couple of assumptions made, plugging in the numbers in say [1] gives a 95% confidence of 3.3% margin of error or 99% confide

Re: Open source as employment?

Hi, > Something struck me yesterday, as I was reading a post (could have been an > old one) from someone who claimed that 50% of contributors work on ASF > projects as part of their $day job. See Question 3 from the committer survey [1] Thanks, Justin 1. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/

Building dialogue

Hi, i ran into something today that is in line with some pieces of advice I've seen mentioned a few times on various lists but never all in one spot. Thought I might share it here as it might be helpful: 1) Assume positive intent - Put our own judgments, viewpoints, and biases aside to focus on

Re: Survey re-design kick-off

Hi, > Well, one difference is that with software, we start with the expected > result, a.k.a. requirements. Not always, think of this more to an Agile development process to find out what we may need but we may not know it yet. I think it’s reasonable to wait some progress have been made, and t

Re: Equity or equality

Hi, > Do we care? Are they equivalent? Equity is giving everyone what they need to be successful. Equality is treating everyone the same. Equality, while promoting fairness, can end up being unfair, as it assumes that everyone starts at the some position. Thanks, Ju8stin

Re: Advantages of Diversity and Inclusion

Hi, > c) straight, white males is an under represented group in some projects I’d be curious to know which projects, (Perhaps ones, originating out of China like Dubbo?) but I’m not sure it’s hugely relevant if that's is only a few projects out of the 200+ we have. Some actual data. I did some

Re: [discuss] private repository for the committee?

HI, JFYI - Wiki permissions can also be set up to allow PMC view/edit and ASF members view access which would be similar permisisons as a projects mailing list. There permissions can be set on a folder and all documents under that will inherent these permissions. Thanks, Justin

Re: [VOTE] Notify the board that D&I intends to coordinate an Outreachy intern program

HI, +1 Currently I don’t know how much time I’ll be able to commit. It sounds like that currently I would not to the time to be an effective mentor. Thanks, Justin

Re: [DISCUSS] Outreachy framework proposal

HI, > The problem isn't that we don't pay for code. It's that the industry is not > paying people from as diverse a background as we would like. I don’t think that’s the whole story. Taking gender as an example. While the industry does have an issue, less than 5% of people who make contributio

Re: Gender of users on GitHub Apache organisation

Hi, > I am adding Holden Karau, who's done similar analysis and has a script she > was interested in sharing to expand collaboration. Thanks for that, it would be interesting to know what approach was taken. I’ve met Holden in person before, and she might remember me. Thanks, Justin

Re: Gender of users on GitHub Apache organisation

Hi, BTW I did generate the stats on a PMC basis and a few other ways, but don’t think it would be useful to post that here, given that roughly 5% of people are one gender, one or two people either way will make large swings in most PMCs. It did indicate that there are few PMC are probably more

Re: Gender of users on GitHub Apache organisation

Hi, > Thanks for taking an initial look Justin. Can you share what name guesser > you're using? I already did [1], it has a database of 40,000 names. Is it 100% correct? Probably not and some names can be either gender, but it probably gives a good indicator and is the same rough percentages as

Re: Gender of users on GitHub Apache organisation

Hi, BTW “unknown” doesn’t always mean the name is unknown, just that the gender may not be easily assumed from the name. IF I get time I see if I can break those two groups apart. Thanks, Justin

Re: Gender of users on GitHub Apache organisation

Hi, Committee rosters: Total: 4738 % Male: 75.3 % Female: 4.8 % Unknown: 19.9 The above is interesting e.g. Is that % drop just chance or an example of unconscious bias or something else like time commitment required? If it's not obvious this data over the previous represents 2219 people who ha

Re: Gender of users on GitHub Apache organisation

Hi, > https://whimsy.apache.org/public/icla-info.json Way ahead of you :-) And here’s the result: Total: 6957 % Male: 69.8 % Female: 5.7 % Unknown: 24.5 Note the female % is a tiny bit higher, perhaps (and I only guessing here) because a) they are more likely to hide their identity on GitHub

Re: Gender of users on GitHub Apache organisation

Hi, You also also predict the ethnic group based on name using [1] and again looking at a name you might be able to have a good guess of what ethic group someone belongs to. How useful its this? Probably not very, but perhaps changes over time may tell us something interesting? Or perhaps some

Re: Unconscious bias course on edX

Hi, JFYI - I had a skim of the course material, it seems useful but doesn’t go into the depth of the google workshop I posted a while back, but does seem more practical. Some of the content is locked unless you pay for it. Thanks, Justin

Gender of users on GitHub Apache organisation

Hi, Something I thought might be of interest. I took all of the names of people in the Apache GitHub organisation [1] and ran them through a gender guesser. Here’s the results: Total records: 2689 Male: 61.7% Female: 3.9% Unknown: 25.3% No name: 9.1% You might get more accurate results by also

Unconscious bias course on edX

Hi, Came across this, which I thought might be of interest: https://courses.edx.org/courses/course-v1:CatalystX+UB1x+1T2018/course/ It’s free or you can pay $50 for a certificate. I plan to take this course in the next couple of months. It’s run by https://www.catalyst.org which may be someone

Re: (Input needed by 6/13 EOD) Decision on budget request for an Outreachy pilot

H, Great proposal Joan, just one comment. > * Pick the right *tech focused*, externally useful project. I propose >PonyMail. Activity on the project is light, I’m not sure anyone there (outside of infra on the PPMC) would have time for mentoring, they sometimes don’t have time to submit b

Re: Concerns about process

Hi, As someone said there’s no one way of doing it, it varies from the chair just submitting what the PMC’s members write to the chair doing all or most of the work. My only suggestion is that 48h may be a little short time to review, for releases we generally allow 72h hours. Some of the proj

Re: Concerns about process

Hi, > Yes, and as a committee member I strongly suggest that we operate like a PMC, > where team members are consulted before sending important things like Board > reports or budget requests. It’s also a valuable way to get feedback from the rest of the committee before submitting the report.

Awaken inclusion survey

Hi, As mentioned the other week, here the questions they used, it's quite detailed. This is open source / free to use so we could use some of it. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o7bDzCxYsXuFGNVD7gbv56NtSNi9IC5aZGjmjeAKhlU/edit