Hi,
I've raised this https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLEX-34484 JIRA and put
together the structure of Apache Flex release using content from Wikipedia [1]
Most of which I originally wrote but it has been modified by other people. (it
is under an Apache compatible license.)
What I like i
egistry. Also, trademark
>>>> disclaimer on the site does not include "Flex", it reads: "Apache Flex,
>>>> Apache and the Apache feather logo are trademarks of The Apache
>>>> Software
>>>> Foundation".
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>to
>>> Flex? I could not find any entry in the USPTO registry. Also, trademark
>>> disclaimer on the site does not include "Flex", it reads: "Apache Flex,
>>> Apache and the Apache feather logo are trademarks of The Apache
>>>Software
>>
. Also, trademark
>> disclaimer on the site does not include "Flex", it reads: "Apache Flex,
>> Apache and the Apache feather logo are trademarks of The Apache Software
>> Foundation".
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Joseph Balder
Good feedback.
I currently have no plans to try to lobby these kinds of companies to
offer paid support. I've been thinking of trying to get FlexJS released
before doing so in order to show that the Flex support business may not be
on a downward slope. On the other hand, maybe hitting them up no
I think 3 and 4 are the biggest ones, followed by 2.
I used to work for a company that offered paid support for httpd.. It
wasn't and issue of actually fixing httpd -- but rather providing the
solution. Like Flex, there are a thousand ways to do things with httpd, so
simply reconfiguring it ofte
day, January 5, 2014 11:39 PM
> To: dev@flex.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Apache Flex Examples Proposal
>
> Alex, how is Apache trademarks going to be aware of the full intent of the
> future site if you cannot forward the contents of my proposal detailed
> above? I gotta be honest m
Hi,
> Alex, could you ask Apache trademark the registration numbers related to
> Flex? I could not find any entry in the USPTO registry.
I enquired about that a few months back, it been correctly registered but it
not in USPTO yet - it seems they are slow to update that info.
> Also, trademark d
Hi,
> 1) it is mature,
Which Flex is.
> 2) it is popular
4000 installs a month is not exactly unpopular. I'm sure HTTP get more but
there's a market there.
> t I'm sure HTTPD has fewer open bugs.
Yep. 3,313 vs.1,364 odd. Assuming I'me querying bugzilla correctly - a lot
more more than I woul
", it reads: "Apache Flex,
Apache and the Apache feather logo are trademarks of The Apache Software
Foundation".
-Original Message-
From: Joseph Balderson [mailto:n...@joeflash.ca]
Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2014 11:39 PM
To: dev@flex.apache.org
Subject: Re: Apache Flex Examples
Okay sorry Alex, I guess I misunderstood your forwarding reference to mean they
have not seen my proposal. Thanks for forwarding that on.
Today I also sent a copy to tradema...@apache.org, hoping that might help, with
the added correction of 'who' to 'whom' (it may concern), and the addition of
"P
I did forward your proposal in its entirety.
This trademark stuff is all new to me. I have a duty to not break the
rules at Apache and my initial query to trademarks was to get a better
understanding of the rules.
So far, based on information in the private discussion, things are going
the way y
Alex, how is Apache trademarks going to be aware of the full intent of the
future site if you cannot forward the contents of my proposal detailed above? I
gotta be honest man, I am really not liking where this is going. Methinks it
might have been better to allow me the opportunity to describe the
Trademarks is a private list so I can't forward without permission. I
will say that I did get a response today and the answer was not an
unequivocal "no". More discussion has to happen in private before a final
ruling is made.
-Alex
On 1/4/14 12:44 PM, "Joseph Balderson" wrote:
>Thanks Alex.
Awesome. Thanks for doing the research.
I guess I'm wondering whether the reason these companies provide paid
support is because: 1) it is mature, 2) it is popular, 3) they can simply
make money doing it, 4) it is a common piece of their solutions set.
One could argue the main Flex SDK has matur
Companies like IBM, RedHat, SuSE, etc. all provide paid support for
projects like httpd. I believe IBM has people who are committers on the
project. Others like RH and SuSE have experts in httpd who are fully
capable of submitting patches back to the project.
Doing a cursory search, it looks like
On 1/4/14 4:09 PM, "Justin Mclean" wrote:
>Hi,
>
>> In fact, on my to do list is to try to get permission from Adobe to do
>>that sort of thing.
>Why would Adode need to give permission? Are you talking about yourself
>only or in general, it wasn't clear to me from the context.
Me personally.
Hi,
> In fact, on my to do list is to try to get permission from Adobe to do that
> sort of thing.
Why would Adode need to give permission? Are you talking about yourself only or
in general, it wasn't clear to me from the context.
Perhaps we can make up a short list of people who are able to of
Thanks Alex. If you could forward me a copy of their reply off-list to
jbdes...@joeflash.ca and/or forward them my email, that would be greatly
appreciated.
___
Joseph Balderson, Flex & Flash Platform Developer :: http://joeflas
OK. I have forwarded your proposal to trademarks@.
-Alex
On 1/4/14 12:26 AM, "Joseph Balderson" wrote:
>My only concern is that, in the absence of the details contained in my
>formal
>request as outlined below, the initial contact to Apache trademarks
>regarding
>this issue might not constitut
IIUC, Apache is a non-profit and there are some limitations, both tax-wise
and policy-wise, that don't allow for paid support revenue.
Realistically, there is currently free, essentially 24/7 support for
Apache Flex via the mailing lists. We luckily have key committers and
active community member
My only concern is that, in the absence of the details contained in my formal
request as outlined below, the initial contact to Apache trademarks regarding
this issue might not constitute "putting our best foot forward" in having this
use case approved. And since I do not know the content of your i
Good catch, thanks! They might limit to the "per incident" support. I'll
call Monday, ask and will let you guys know.
Would it be totally unrealistic to consider the idea of Apache providing
this kind of support. Maybe not the unlimited plan, to be honnest it went
down the sink and the technician
It might be worth calling support and asking. According to [1]:
Support contracts
Adobe is fully committed to honoring support contracts for released
versions of the Adobe Flex SDK and will continue to offer new support
contracts for five years. Adobe does not have plans to provide support for
Ap
Sorry my last email and the horribly broken English, I was on Caltrain
writing wit my phone and swap gesture lol. This is the contract I usually
ask my client to get, and there is no Flex anymore, only Flash Builder and
AIR. There used to be Flex SDK included. That is probably what Disney
referred
I was told Disney Interactive os dropping AIR because Adobe ruled support
to community basis, I checked the enterprise support program on Adobe
website and saw AIR but not Flex. I answered my contact bringing good
attention on it but the conversation went cold. I assumed it meant Flex
since I could
I can present this on your behalf. I thought the documents indicated that
you should contact them directly but in re-reading them I guess it isn't
totally clear. I've learned not to overload them, so if you want me to
pass this on I will wait until Tuesday to give them a chance to get caught
up a
Alex, you mentioned that you've already been in contact with Apache trademarks
about this issue, so if could please tell them that yes, I have read the
trademark policy, and please pass along my proposal as stated, that would be
appreciated. Unless there is some conflict of interest I am not aware
Joe,
If it were me, I'd wait until Tuesday to contact trademarks@a.o. I've
already asked trademarks for their guidance on this matter and they
haven't responded yet. I did see trademarks answer another email, but
they may not be fully engaged and caught up on everything until Monday.
I would su
On 1/3/14 6:44 PM, "Justin Mclean" wrote:
>Hi,
>
>> Which remind me of anothet concern I have: support. I should probably
>>send
>> a separate email with a new title to create a new conversation, I will
>> after searching previous conversation first. But just as an example,
>>Disney
>> Interact
+1
On Jan 3, 2014 8:18 PM, "Joseph Balderson" wrote:
> FYI, here is my official request proposal to Apache. Alex, if you would be
> so
> kind as to forward this on to the folks at Apache that would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> -
FYI, here is my official request proposal to Apache. Alex, if you would be so
kind as to forward this on to the folks at Apache that would be greatly
appreciated.
-
January 3, 2014
To Who It May Concern,
My name is Joseph B
Hi,
> Which remind me of anothet concern I have: support. I should probably send
> a separate email with a new title to create a new conversation, I will
> after searching previous conversation first. But just as an example, Disney
> Interactive in Palo Alto recently told me that they abandon AIR
Hey Mike, good to see your name again ;) Interesting point, something I was
not thinking about to take into consideration indeed. I think we got it
convered for the purpose of this thread and each party / role expressed
their concern. I'm looking forward to reading the feedback from Apache
lawyers
>Here is the thing though -- it's not a "us vs. them" type of situation. We
>are all Apache (including the community). The trademark group within the
>Apache Foundation is there to protect us. Please see it that way. >We live
>in a litigious world and we all need to realize that.
I don't wa
I understand the spirit but I do not see it in this case. I do not see what
is good for "us" with "Apache lawyers" being "unsettled" due to the "word
flex without Apache" being widely used in the community. What I hear, is
Apache lawyer defending Apache's interest and ownership in more zealous and
Here is the thing though -- it's not a "us vs. them" type of situation. We
are all Apache (including the community). The trademark group within the
Apache Foundation is there to protect us. Please see it that way. We live
in a litigious world and we all need to realize that.
-Nick
On Fri,
just to be clear, my last email was for a case of a name with flex but
without apache, I think a domain name with both is totally off limit and
will legitimately trigger a cease and desist for sure, i would even
recommend against it even with Apache approval, it's too long and sounds
like someone i
Again there is what the Apache lawyer wants and there is what we can do.
They defend Apache's interest, not ours. Amd there is what they want, and
what they can't do anything about. And then there is what they can do
something about with huge risk to hurt Apache's reputation more than
protecting it
>From previous conversations with the Apache lawyers (revolving my own user
group), I doubt they will let any domain names with the words "apache" and
"flex" fly. When they first took over the trademarks they were very
unsettled with the amount of community sites that used the word "flex" by
itsel
On 1/3/14 2:23 AM, "Joseph Balderson" wrote:
>I'm not aiming to misrepresent Apache's trademark, I'm looking for
>permission to
>use it, in the spirit of the precedent of maven.com and flexexamples.com,
>etc.;
>to be allowed to run the site with that domain because of its historical
>connection
I'm not going to be reusing any code from flexexamples.com: the point of
apacheflexexamples.com is to revisit the micro-tutorial format, but with all new
content geared specifically for Apache Flex. The examples will be "one-pagers",
just like flexexamples.com, so there will be nothing to download,
First of all, regardless of the domain name, I would love to see websites
dedicated to Apache Flex code examples. Big +1s to Joseph and Sven for
offering to build these kind of sites.
As far as the domain name is concerned, I view apacheflexexamples.com in
the same way as I would see apacheflexis
> In the meantime, I'd like to hear from the other PMC members. If it is ok
> with trademarks, is it ok with us that Joe should be able to use
> apacheflexexamples.com?
>
Yes.
EdB
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
On 1/2/14 6:56 PM, "Joseph Balderson" wrote:
>And here I was thinking that suggestions would come in the form of what
>people
>would like to see on the actual site, not whether the site could actually
>exist.
Yeah, unfortunately, your choice of domain name tripped an alarmŠ To be
clear, I'd lo
I could also suggest that Joe pushes with publishing his examples, even
from his own site at the moment. And if Apache would have no concerns with
the domain in contention here, then he could move the examples there more
properly (and do a redirect from his previous site).
On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 a
I would appreciate it if you would not waste resources of Apache by
testing them on this topic. There are a set of lawyers who volunteer time
to Apache to guide them on legal issues. Let's wait until we get an
official reply from trademarks.
In the meantime, I'd like to hear from the other PMC m
You mean in case Trademark refuse to allow its use and outside lawyers
confirm it is not fair use righr? Because Trademark, whoever that is is not
god and I start to really dislike this conversation. Let me build one
then, and tell you when its on production and if you don't like it tell
trademark
@Joseph Balderson
A good example for me would constitute of a simple application that is an
end-to-end one, like a school class record / grading system, etc. Something
that would really be easy for people to follow, yet explores the power of
what flex offers.
In my mind, one good example would be
Hi,
> And here I was thinking that suggestions would come in the form of what people
> would like to see on the actual site, not whether the site could actually
> exist.
I don't think anyone thinks the site shouldn't exist, and there's several
people that think it's a good idea and are willing t
Angelo, I totally agree with your point! The time when it was all about the
domain, title and tags is long gone. It is funny you mention that, because
I was going to add to my previous email that a shorter domain with just
flex might be better because of the higher ratio of "flex" compared to the
t
And here I was thinking that suggestions would come in the form of what people
would like to see on the actual site, not whether the site could actually exist.
Flex has a history and a community before Apache ever got involved. And part of
that community was the old flexexamples.com website: it wa
Hi,
How about putting an external resources page on the Apache Flex website
(similar to the showcase)?
Justin
I hope that we don't get too hung up on the domain name issue, but rather,
collectively put in energy to provide good examples that our target
audience would find feasible to apply in their endeavours (devs,
enterprise, etc.).
Kindly correct me if I am wrong, but search algorithms not only depend
>Just for the record: I hate it when the rules get in the way of good
intentions. That's not what the rules are intended for, IMHO. The rules
should be there to avoid abuse, not to discourage use...
>EdB
Erik is right in my opinion. We must balance the need for the Apache
Software Foundation to de
Well, I have asked trademarks@ for guidance, but my understanding is that
Flex is a trademark of Apache and Apache can oppose a domain name if the
domain name and its content can confuse folks about who owns the
trademark.It might matter that Adobe did not always enforce the Flex
trademark, but
lex.apache.org
Cc: n...@joeflash.ca
Subject: Re: Apache Flex Examples
I'm not sure the rules are truly in the way. I think it is up to the Apache
Flex PMC to decide whether we want to allow Joe to use this domain or not.
I've asked trademarks@ to see if we get to make the call or not an
I'm not sure the rules are truly in the way. I think it is up to the
Apache Flex PMC to decide whether we want to allow Joe to use this domain
or not. I've asked trademarks@ to see if we get to make the call or not
and for guidance on what issues we should consider when making such a
decision.
T
Just for the record: I hate it when the rules get in the way of good
intentions. That's not what the rules are intended for, IMHO. The
rules should be there to avoid abuse, not to discourage use...
EdB
On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
>
>
> On 12/31/13 8:07 PM, "Joseph Balders
On 1/1/2014 11:23 AM, Alex Harui wrote:
On 12/31/13 8:07 PM, "Joseph Balderson" wrote:
I understand the concern about the domain name. However, in the spirit of
continuing the work of Peter De Haan, since he still is in control of
flexexamples.com, I think apacheflexexamples.com is perfectly
On 12/31/13 8:07 PM, "Joseph Balderson" wrote:
>I understand the concern about the domain name. However, in the spirit of
>continuing the work of Peter De Haan, since he still is in control of
>flexexamples.com, I think apacheflexexamples.com is perfectly appropriate.
It is logical, but I don't
I understand the concern about the domain name. However, in the spirit of
continuing the work of Peter De Haan, since he still is in control of
flexexamples.com, I think apacheflexexamples.com is perfectly appropriate.
To alleviate any confusion of direct relationship with the Apache foundation, I
Hi,
> Therefore, I'm not sure the Apache VP of Branding would approve domains
> like apacheflexdoc, apacheflexsourcecode, apacheflexreleases, etc. Or
> even flexdoc, flexsourcecode, or any new uses of flexexamples.
I most of the non "apache" names would be OK as long as they complied with
ever
Hi,
Thanks for clearing that up and I think it's a great idea, I be happy to
review/provide feeedback/provide examples etc etc if you need. I think it would
be best if was on Apache infrastructure but have no objections if you want to
make it as you say a "fan" site and host elsewhere. But ther
Hi all,
Last week I was also working on the same thing. I did basically setup the
layout and the structure of the website. It was intended for others to also
submit a example.
Here is what I already did:
http://hdsign.nl.web02.ib.nxs.nl/index.php/flex-examples
So if I can help out in any way l
Hi Joe,
It is great that you want to create a site of updated tutorials, and it
looks like you found the right branding info on the Apache site, but I
have some concerns. The domain name apacheflexexamples.com does not pass
the "confusion" test for me. Apache Flex does and will have some set of
Joe,
I for one (and I'm sure many on the Flex team - which is basically all
users! - with me) welcome your effort. As you say, Peter's blog has
been invaluable for me when trying to get to grips with new and
existing features of past frameworks. A 'continuation' of such an
effort will be of great
The way to look at it is, I'm trying to carry on the work done by Peter deHaan
with flexexamples.com. AFAIK, the Apache Flex site does not have a blog format
specific to coding tutorials, which this "micro tutorial" format requires. Since
they will be more or less single file coding tutorials, no r
Hi,
Not to discourage you from anything, but it's suggest that that sort of content
went on the Apache Flex site or wiki. That way there's no trademark issues, the
code is correctly licensed, it can use use Apache infrastructure and anyone can
contribute to it. Unless you think there a good rea
me to work on it. End of January is what I figure for an ETA with enough
initial content to go live. When it's live, my commitment is to contribute at
least five Apache Flex examples per week, though initially it will probably be
double that for the first few months just to cover some ground.
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