The link [1]: https://github.com/lodr/offliner/#configuring-offliner
On 08/02/15 15:11, Salvador de la Puente González wrote:
I've updated offliner and now it's possible to configure it in such a
way it will download a zip of the app and use its contents to populate
the cache as Benjamin Kelly
Hi folks.
Sorry for being late. I want to add two thought to the discussion: one is about
service workers. For educational purposes, I want you to take a look at
`offliner` [1] a toy library using Service Workers (in Chrome Unstable) I
implemented for the Portland event, past December. It's
On 2015-01-30, 14:48 GMT, Benjamin Francis wrote:
One of the main themes in suggestions for Firefox OS 3.0 has been to make
the OS more webby, moving away from packaged apps to something inherently
more web-like, and even turning the built-in Gaia apps into hosted apps.
So what is the answer
On 31 January 2015 at 06:05, Rajat Kosh rajatk...@outlook.com wrote:
Yes, I totally agree. For a country like INDIA where, Internet is not
accessible by every third person. I don’t think making Everything as Hosted
will be a Good Idea. Even though, the firefox OS phones are really
affordable
On 1 February 2015 at 11:16, Tim Guan-tin Chien timdr...@mozilla.com
wrote:
Your use case doesn't necessary has to be fulfilled by packaged apps.
Deployment can always be delegated to 3rd-parties instead of running
your own server. Marketplace can certainly support anything other than
a zip
On 31 January 2015 at 11:25, danielcol...@gmail.com wrote:
I think for issues that require certification, the key thing is allowing
them to be updated separately or in a more controlled way. I am thinking in
apps or parts of the system that affect regulated features (e.g. Dialer and
Emergency
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 11:41 AM, Matěj Cepl mc...@cepl.eu wrote:
On Mon, Feb 02, 2015 at 07:56:44AM -0800, Fabrice Desré wrote:
What were their worries? Could you host your authenticator in you
private network?
Well, sorry, I thought it is obvious. THe worry was that the author of the
On 02/02/2015 07:31 AM, Benjamin Francis wrote:
The only use case that can be complex I could think of is peer-to-peer
app sharing. These web apps installed w/o a direct connection to it's
origin would need some way to authenticate, or we would have to again
throw it into a
On 02/02/2015 06:03 AM, =?UTF-8?Q?Mat=C4=9Bj?= Cepl wrote:
On 2015-01-30, 14:48 GMT, Benjamin Francis wrote:
One of the main themes in suggestions for Firefox OS 3.0 has been to make
the OS more webby, moving away from packaged apps to something
inherently
more web-like, and even turning the
On Mon, Feb 02, 2015 at 07:56:44AM -0800, Fabrice Desré wrote:
What were their worries? Could you host your authenticator in you
private network?
Well, sorry, I thought it is obvious. THe worry was that the
author of the authenticator hosted on his website, can change
the code underneath me
That sounds like a good idea for a manifest property.
On 02/02/15 17:50, Benjamin Kelly wrote:
Reminds me of this post from Christian Heilmann:
http://christianheilmann.com/2014/12/08/the-next-ux-challenge-on-the-web-gaining-offline-trust/
Seems like improving trust in hosted web
Thanks for all of the feedback so far!
I've submitted a new proposal for Privileged Hosted Apps to the
dev-webapi mailing list. Feedback very welcome
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.webapi/pCY77YAg_i4
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Kevin,
Your use case doesn't necessary has to be fulfilled by packaged apps.
Deployment can always be delegated to 3rd-parties instead of running
your own server. Marketplace can certainly support anything other than
a zip file if we decided too.
The only use case that can be complex I could
El viernes, 30 de enero de 2015, 20:22:15 (UTC+1), Benjamin Francis escribió:
On 30 January 2015 at 19:10, Andrew Overholt over...@mozilla.com wrote:
I would think we'd always want something required for certification to be
packaged or built-in or something.
Before Gaia apps were
This is a good challenge: make the flow Ben described before as simple as
zipping a file for a developer. We are already working in something similar, I
hope we can share it soon.
El viernes, 30 de enero de 2015, 21:22:21 (UTC+1), Dietrich Ayala escribió:
Sounds almost as simple as zipping
On 30 January 2015 at 16:03, Andrew Overholt overh...@mozilla.com wrote:
Is it possible for us to get a list of the non-standard APIs that are being
used, sorted by usage? I'd like to say work is being prioritized based on
need :)
Yes, here's a snapshot of permissions used:
I found that a number of applications cannot be written without XHR,
starting with anything that looks like a feed reader, or anything that
needs to scrap a third-party website. We need a solution for this.
Cheers,
David
On 30/01/15 17:53, Benjamin Francis wrote:
On 30 January 2015 at 16:03,
I dont think its necessarily about removing packaged apps completely, they
do have their advantages and building out the ability for web application
run in a peer to peer fashion is a good thing to do.
However I think Naoki's questions illustrate the point really well
An example is emergency
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Kevin Grandon kgran...@mozilla.com wrote:
There are many developers who like the ability to not run and maintain a
server. It's simply less work and overhead for them to throw their code up
on a marketplace, and not have to worry about a monthly server cost, or
On 01/30/2015 11:41 AM, Benjamin Kelly wrote:
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Kevin Grandon kgran...@mozilla.com
mailto:kgran...@mozilla.com wrote:
There are many developers who like the ability to not run and
maintain a server. It's simply less work and overhead for them to
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Dietrich Ayala auton...@gmail.com wrote:
What about dodgy network performance?
A website-in-a-zip will be a single network request, which might perform
far better under some network conditions than many network requests.
You can implement this in Service
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Naoki Hirata nhir...@mozilla.com wrote:
An example is emergency calling. If the dialer was fully hosted without a
wifi connection, how do you make a call? This scenario would require you
to have a SIM w/ a data plan in order to access the app that is needed
The proposal is that the act of installing the app fetches all indicated
resources and persists them. Apps that today are packaged wouldn't need to
touch the network at all except for optional, periodic update pings. You
could also preload apps like the dialer and other core/certified apps - so
Do we really want to fully deprecate packaged apps? I think making hosted
apps and packaged apps equals is a big win, but I'm not sure if fully
deprecating packaged apps is a good idea.
There are many developers who like the ability to not run and maintain a
server. It's simply less work and
On 30 January 2015 at 18:54, Naoki Hirata nhir...@mozilla.com wrote:
I have to agree with Kevin. My biggest concerns are for performance,
offline cases, and issues with caching with full hosted apps.
As Dale says this is exactly why we need Service Workers. I'm not
suggesting that all apps
I'm late to this party. The discussion at
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.webapi/PicfHG9Figk
covers a lot of what I had in mind. bfrancis++
/Sam
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 11:22 AM, Samuel Foster sfos...@mozilla.com wrote:
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Dale Harvey
Interesting point in case for service workers. I think I'm ignorant about the
technology and being in QA, I tend to play the devil's advocate. Don't get me
wrong, I do wish for what you're stating. I am concerned about throwing things
over the wall to service workers; I get the feeling we'll
On 30 January 2015 at 19:24, Naoki Hirata nhir...@mozilla.com wrote:
An edge case example of what I'm worried about is:
Camping and being in the middle of no where, and then the phone dies.
You're able to charge the device via Pan Charger (
On 30 January 2015 at 20:10, Dietrich Ayala auton...@gmail.com wrote:
What about dodgy network performance?
A website-in-a-zip will be a single network request, which might perform
far better under some network conditions than many network requests.
I'm not sure whether that's actually
On 30 January 2015 at 18:17, Andrew Overholt overh...@mozilla.com wrote:
Most of the frequently used permissions do not require the use of a
packaged app, but the second most used permission is systemXHR which does.
Apparently most developers are only using this because they created a
On 30 January 2015 at 19:10, Andrew Overholt overh...@mozilla.com wrote:
I would think we'd always want something required for certification to be
packaged or built-in or something.
I should mention that I'm not sure we'll ever be able to make the system
app a hosted app. It has really become
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Benjamin Francis bfran...@mozilla.com
wrote:
Developers create a packaged app because it's currently the most effective
way to make their app work offline. A packaged app has a synthetic origin
which will always be cross-origin from the developer's own web
I have to agree with Kevin. My biggest concerns are for performance, offline
cases, and issues with caching with full hosted apps.
An example is emergency calling. If the dialer was fully hosted without a wifi
connection, how do you make a call? This scenario would require you to have a
On 30 January 2015 at 20:22, Dietrich Ayala auton...@gmail.com wrote:
Sounds almost as simple as zipping some files up! ;)
That's a fair point, but at least you only have to do it once, rather than
re-package your app in 12 different proprietary package formats :)
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 6:48 AM, Benjamin Francis bfran...@mozilla.com wrote:
There have been several proposals of how to provide privileged hosted apps,
including work around hosted packages [3] and discussions around a security
model.
Link [3] (bug 1036275) seems mostly about how to
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Dale Harvey d...@arandomurl.com wrote:
I dont think its necessarily about removing packaged apps completely, they
do have their advantages and building out the ability for web application
run in a peer to peer fashion is a good thing to do.
There's a thing
On 30 January 2015 at 19:10, Andrew Overholt overh...@mozilla.com wrote:
I would think we'd always want something required for certification to be
packaged or built-in or something.
Before Gaia apps were packaged apps we used to pre-populate an appcache
when generating a profile to flash to
What about dodgy network performance?
A website-in-a-zip will be a single network request, which might perform
far better under some network conditions than many network requests.
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 6:48 AM, Benjamin Francis bfran...@mozilla.com
wrote:
Hi,
It feels like a good time to
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 10:31 AM, James Burke jrbu...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 6:48 AM, Benjamin Francis bfran...@mozilla.com
wrote:
There have been several proposals of how to provide privileged hosted apps,
including work around hosted packages [3] and discussions around a
On 30 January 2015 at 18:40, Kevin Grandon kgran...@mozilla.com wrote:
Do we really want to fully deprecate packaged apps? I think making hosted
apps and packaged apps equals is a big win, but I'm not sure if fully
deprecating packaged apps is a good idea.
Packaged apps are not web apps.
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Benjamin Francis bfran...@mozilla.com
wrote:
How are Service Workers coming along?
We have a Q1 goal to pref Service Workers on in mozilla-central. If we're
successful with this goal I believe that would put SWs in gecko 39.
A lot of code is in review right
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Marcos Caceres mcace...@mozilla.com wrote:
On Monday, November 18, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
Bookmarking. And in particular bookmarking to home screen should not
have dramatically different security properties from just bookmarking.
They ought
On 19 Nov 2013, at 11:28 am, Anne van Kesteren ann...@annevk.nl wrote:
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Marcos Caceres mcace...@mozilla.com wrote:
On Monday, November 18, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
Bookmarking. And in particular bookmarking to home screen should not
have
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 9:04 AM, Jonas Sicking jo...@sicking.cc wrote:
We have started exploring creating a URL standard that would allow
linking to resources inside a .zip file. This would actually allow
having URLs to packaged apps. Not sure what the latest here is. Anne
could probably fill
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 11:32 PM, Marcos Caceres mcace...@mozilla.com wrote:
On Monday, November 18, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
I think there's still a large problem with these applications. That
we're not giving them the same cache context as they would have inside
the browser.
On Monday, November 18, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 11:32 PM, Marcos Caceres mcace...@mozilla.com
(mailto:mcace...@mozilla.com) wrote:
On Monday, November 18, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
I think there's still a large problem with these
Time to go through old threads again...
The short answer is no, i don't think we can deprecate packaged apps yet.
The big problem is still how to expose APIs that are security
sensitive and whose implications we can't explain well enough to the
user. This generally mean all *security* sensitive
bfran...@mozilla.com
To: dev-b2g dev-b2g@lists.mozilla.org, dev-weba...@lists.mozilla.org
Sent: Monday, 8 July, 2013 2:31:49 PM
Subject: [b2g] Can we deprecate packaged apps?
Sorry for the typo in the subject line. It wasn't an attempt at a clever
pun...
Hello all,
Apologies
Hello!
On 09/07/13 23:13, Antonio Manuel Amaya Calvo wrote:
Hey all.
You know, at the risk of being the discordant voice here, I don't see
what the issue with packaged apps is. It's not like you're required to
use packaged app if you want do develop a non special-api-using app.
You can just
On 10/07/2013 10:09, Salvador de la Puente González wrote:
Hello!
On 09/07/13 23:13, Antonio Manuel Amaya Calvo wrote:
Hey all.
You know, at the risk of being the discordant voice here, I don't see
what the issue with packaged apps is. It's not like you're required
to use packaged app if you
Hi
On 10/07/13 10:45, Antonio M. Amaya wrote:
On 10/07/2013 10:09, Salvador de la Puente González wrote:
Hello!
On 09/07/13 23:13, Antonio Manuel Amaya Calvo wrote:
Hey all.
You know, at the risk of being the discordant voice here, I don't
see what the issue with packaged apps is. It's not
On 07/08/2013 10:31 PM, Tim Chien wrote:
I want to echo Ben's opinion here. While some of the features are
irreplaceable at the time being (offline access, reviewable by
marketplace, sandboxing our experimental APIs, even portability,
etc.), packaged app itself is not free:
-- By
Seconds.
We should move the web forward instead of restrict us to the packaged
app approach.
Ben Francis bfran...@mozilla.com writes:
[...]
Are we happy with a packaged model for trusted apps going forward, or is
now the time to embrace the challenge of making trusted apps genuinely part
of
Hi,
Encouraging to see this discussion as my dissatisfaction with the hassle
of packaged apps led me to my however humble work on
https://github.com/brettz9/asyouwish/ . Replies below...
On 7/9/2013 8:36 AM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
On 7/8/2013 5:31 PM, Ben Francis wrote:
What's sad about
On 7/9/2013 5:38 PM, Brett Zamir wrote:
Hi,
Encouraging to see this discussion as my dissatisfaction with the
hassle of packaged apps led me to my however humble work on
https://github.com/brettz9/asyouwish/ . Replies below...
I should clarify here that I mean dissatisfaction with
On Jul 8, 2013, at 4:31 PM, Ben Francis bfran...@mozilla.com wrote:
Sorry for the typo in the subject line. It wasn't an attempt at a clever
pun...
Hello all,
Apologies for the length of this email, I didn't have time to write a
shorter one.
A year ago Jonas sent out an email [1]
Hey all.
You know, at the risk of being the discordant voice here, I don't see
what the issue with packaged apps is. It's not like you're required to
use packaged app if you want do develop a non special-api-using app. You
can just develop the app as you would normally, host it somewhere, test
On 07/09/2013 08:52 AM, Kannan Vijayan wrote:
Lifting the app:// protocol up to https://, leaving everything else the
same, doesn't
seem like it should be that big of a difficulty. This would resolve the
apps don't have
a URI issue directly.. if perhaps in a shallow way.
Except that we might
On 13-07-09 5:25 PM, Nicolas B. Pierron wrote:
I agree, and where I think packaged app (zip of all used files) are
good for the size of the initial download (even if they are way
smaller than Android ones) but I do not think this is good for
updates. Suppose, I have a web site with 10 pages.
On 09/07/2013 23:45, Fabrice Desre wrote:
On 07/09/2013 02:25 PM, Nicolas B. Pierron wrote:
I agree, and where I think packaged app (zip of all used files) are good
for the size of the initial download (even if they are way smaller than
Android ones) but I do not think this is good for
On 07/09/2013 02:45 PM, Fabrice Desre wrote:
On 07/09/2013 02:25 PM, Nicolas B. Pierron wrote:
I agree, and where I think packaged app (zip of all used files) are good
for the size of the initial download (even if they are way smaller than
Android ones) but I do not think this is good for
Sorry for the typo in the subject line. It wasn't an attempt at a clever
pun...
Hello all,
Apologies for the length of this email, I didn't have time to write a
shorter one.
A year ago Jonas sent out an email [1] outlining the requirements for a new
breed of trusted web apps. He explained some
I can't see this outside the UK, I'm in the US of A:
5. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b036zdhg/Click_06_07_2013/
Alternate available?
Mark
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Without arguing in favor of or against packaged apps and to address the closing
question of what might a hosted solution to this problem look like?, I think
the first and most important issue is this: developers need something better
than appcache for offline support.
Without packaged apps,
I want to echo Ben's opinion here. While some of the features are
irreplaceable at the time being (offline access, reviewable by
marketplace, sandboxing our experimental APIs, even portability,
etc.), packaged app itself is not free:
-- By distributing the app in zip packages and not simply as an
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