Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

On 05/14/2016 06:58 AM, Philip Chee wrote: > Given the "two different implementations rule" is there any suitable > alternative to ICU? I mean besides rolling our own. No, or at least not something cross-platform. It's probably possible to do something using Windows APIs, that would only be

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

Hi David, I'm one of the editors of ECMA 402 and a champion of multiple proposals there. I'd like to respond to your comment: On Saturday, April 30, 2016 at 1:26:53 PM UTC-7, David Baron wrote: > I still find it sad that ECMAScript Intl came (as I understand it) > very close to just

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

On Tue, May 03, 2016 at 03:14:35PM +0300, Henri Sivonen wrote: > (Looks like Zopfli was investigated in bug > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1173894 .) And bug 1234008, where you'll learn that zopflipng removes PNG chunks that are important to us, including frames in animated PNGs.

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 10:49 PM, Margaret Leibovic wrote: > On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 6:54 AM, Henri Sivonen wrote: >> >> >> What bothers me the most regarding size of what we ship is >> >> * Failure to make the most out of compression (i.e. Zopfli)

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

It's not just strange. It's against Ecma's explicit organization-wide policy. -j On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 1:13 AM, Anne van Kesteren wrote: > On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 2:17 AM, Jeff Walden wrote: > > Using a library to do certain things we do other ways right

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 2:17 AM, Jeff Walden wrote: > Using a library to do certain things we do other ways right now, in sometimes > inferior fashion, doesn't seem inherently objectionable to me. So long as the > library's internal decisions don't bleed too far into the

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

On 04/30/2016 01:26 PM, L. David Baron wrote: > I still find it sad that ECMAScript Intl came (as I understand it) > very close to just standardizing on a piece of software (ICU) I'm fuzzy on the details as well, but I don't believe it was ever going to be the case that the spec would be "do

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

On 04/29/2016 08:30 AM, sn...@snorp.net wrote: > The engineers in Platform consistently want to dismiss mobile-specific > issues, and this is a great example. If you really want to get ICU into > Fennec, find a way to do it without bloating the APK size instead of bullying > the Fennec folks.

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 6:54 AM, Henri Sivonen wrote: > > What bothers me the most regarding size of what we ship is > > * Failure to make the most out of compression (i.e. Zopfli) before > objecting to the addition of new things stuff. I've brought this up > before, but

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

On 4/30/16 1:26 PM, L. David Baron wrote: So I think we should take option a': Drop XP and Snow Leopard support on trunk and push ESR builds to the non-ESR update channel on XP and Snow Leopard through the life of 45 ESR. I think enough of our users are on Windows XP that decisions about

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

This. Dropping the XP support is *completely* not an engineering decision. It isn’t even a community decision. It is completely, 100% MoCo driven Firefox product management decision, as long as the numbers of users are where they are. It is good to have these conversations, about potential

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 2:37 AM, Jim Blandy wrote: > What are the distributions of memory and flash sizes for the devices people > currently run Fennec on? It'll be almost impossible to have a good > discussion about Fennec size without those numbers. I seem to remember that >

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

What are the distributions of memory and flash sizes for the devices people currently run Fennec on? It'll be almost impossible to have a good discussion about Fennec size without those numbers. I seem to remember that is data we felt was okay to collect. On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 2:21 PM, Boris

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

On 4/29/16 11:30 AM, sn...@snorp.net wrote: The Fennec team has been very clear about why they oppose inclusion of ICU in bug 1215247. Sort of. There's been a fair amount of moving of goalposts to get from https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1215247#c14 to

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 11:26 PM, L. David Baron wrote: > On Friday 2016-04-29 10:43 +0300, Henri Sivonen wrote: > I still find it sad that ECMAScript Intl came (as I understand it) > very close to just standardizing on a piece of software (ICU), Looking at the standard, it

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

On Friday 2016-04-29 10:43 +0300, Henri Sivonen wrote: > On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 8:51 PM, Jeff Walden wrote: > > On 04/28/2016 10:00 AM, Jonathan Kew wrote: > >> Thoughts? > > > > Another option is to ship a WinXP-specific Firefox build that doesn't > > provide ICU and

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

It's natural that engineers in different parts of the organisation and community will have different priorities. Let's all take a deep breath and keep the discussion calm, please. Nick On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 1:30 AM, wrote: > On Friday, April 29, 2016 at 2:44:25 AM UTC-5,

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

On Friday, April 29, 2016 at 2:44:25 AM UTC-5, Henri Sivonen wrote: > > > Given it's WinXP only (and Firefox for Android's recalcitrance ;-) > > I think the situation where Firefox for Android is holding back > Gecko's ability to improve the codebase by getting rid of Netscape-era > code makes

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 8:51 PM, Jeff Walden wrote: > On 04/28/2016 10:00 AM, Jonathan Kew wrote: >> Thoughts? > > Another option is to ship a WinXP-specific Firefox build that doesn't provide > ICU and ECMAScript's Intl functionality. I'm very opposed to this (unless the

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

On 2016-04-29 1:39 AM, Jonathan Kew wrote: > On 28/4/16 18:11, Jeff Muizelaar wrote: >> Do we use any of the OS specific parts of ICU? > > I don't know. What are those OS specific parts? ___ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

On 04/28/2016 10:00 AM, Jonathan Kew wrote: > Thoughts? Another option is to ship a WinXP-specific Firefox build that doesn't provide ICU and ECMAScript's Intl functionality. This would break anyone's expectation that any version of Firefox past the mid-30s somewhere has Intl available in it.

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 1:39 PM, Jonathan Kew wrote: > On 28/4/16 18:11, Jeff Muizelaar wrote: > >> Do we use any of the OS specific parts of ICU? >> > > I don't know. > > But even if we don't, I suspect that once they drop support for XP / 10.6, > it won't be long before the

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

On 28/4/16 18:11, Jeff Muizelaar wrote: Do we use any of the OS specific parts of ICU? I don't know. But even if we don't, I suspect that once they drop support for XP / 10.6, it won't be long before the project as a whole becomes increasingly difficult to build for those targets, as it'll

Re: ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

Do we use any of the OS specific parts of ICU? -Jeff On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Jonathan Kew wrote: > We make considerable (and growing) use of ICU for various aspects of i18n > support in Gecko.† > > The ICU project is proposing to drop support for Windows XP and OS

ICU proposing to drop support for WinXP (and OS X 10.6)

We make considerable (and growing) use of ICU for various aspects of i18n support in Gecko.† The ICU project is proposing to drop support for Windows XP and OS X 10.6 in version 58; I guess this will be released sometime shortly after Unicode 9.0, which is due to appear in June. Markus (in