Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[Rich Bowen]

> On Apr 19, 2024, at 12:36 PM, sebb  wrote:
> 
> Before diving into any changes to how the calendar is defined and
> maintained, I think it is vital to establish what is wanted from the
> calendar, both from the maintenance point of view and the user PoV.
> 
> The existing calendar allows views by week, month and agenda (serial).
> One can move back and forth in the listings easily, and they can be
> downloaded and printed.
> Individual entries can be copied to one's personal calendar.
> Selecting an entry shows more information, with links to further details.
> There are probably more functions I have not considered.

Yes, that seems adequate.

FWIW, my minimum feature set is:

* Manage entries without having to edit ics files directly. (Details not 
terribly important, If I could interact with it via gui, that would be nice, 
but a simple text data format would be ok too.)
* Display events as a list (we already have this)
* Display events in a table-form calendar, so that overlaps/conflicts can be 
clearly seen. Bonus for displaying major world holidays.
* Ability to subscribe via standard calendar application.
* Entries can indicate a location and a URL for more detail

It sounds like you have all of that covered in your list.
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Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[sebb]

Before diving into any changes to how the calendar is defined and
maintained, I think it is vital to establish what is wanted from the
calendar, both from the maintenance point of view and the user PoV.

The existing calendar allows views by week, month and agenda (serial).
One can move back and forth in the listings easily, and they can be
downloaded and printed.
Individual entries can be copied to one's personal calendar.
Selecting an entry shows more information, with links to further details.
There are probably more functions I have not considered.

Are all these needed?

On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 at 15:08, Bertrand Delacretaz
 wrote:
>
> On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 2:13 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:
> > ...I would *really* like to not have to edit ics files directly. That way 
> > lies madness...
>
> Indeed. If someone wants to take a look, Hugo (which is used for both
> the comdev and events websites) does support the generation of iCal
> files directly from markdown files representing events.
>
> https://github.com/raoulb/hugo-ical-templates-demo looks like a good
> example of that, except that it's using a complicated date format in
> the Markdown event files. But that can certainly be fixed.
>
> -Bertrand (really in "someone should" mode here, won't probably have
> time to help right now)
>
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Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 2:13 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:
> ...I would *really* like to not have to edit ics files directly. That way 
> lies madness...

Indeed. If someone wants to take a look, Hugo (which is used for both
the comdev and events websites) does support the generation of iCal
files directly from markdown files representing events.

https://github.com/raoulb/hugo-ical-templates-demo looks like a good
example of that, except that it's using a complicated date format in
the Markdown event files. But that can certainly be fixed.

-Bertrand (really in "someone should" mode here, won't probably have
time to help right now)

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Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[sebb]

On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 at 12:08, Raphael Bircher  wrote:
>
> Hi Sebb
>
> On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 11:38 AM sebb  wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 at 10:21, Raphael Bircher 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Sebb
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 10:49 AM sebb  wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > To put the data in a (JavaScript) generated Calendar like the one who was
> > > included via IFrame.
> >
> > But which data exactly? Where would the data be kept?
> >
> > The ICal file from google. We could fetch it directly from google or fetch
> it regularly on our server and include it from there into the JavaScript.

It would be trivial to fetch, but parsing it is non-trivial compared
with the JSON output.

> And would the page have the same functionality as the existing Google
> > calendar?
> >
>
> Not exactly the same I think

It does not have to look the same, but it should provide most of the
same functionality, otherwise why bother?

> >
> > If not, what would be different?
> >
> The main benefit would be, that we are able to move away from Google
> Calendar like Rich recommended earlier in the discussion

If we are to move away from Google Calendar, then the data should be
stored in a format that is easier to maintain and use.
ICS is not such a format.

> The JavaScript Calendar will only need a .ics files

Not an easy job, parsing ICS files.

> Regards, Raphael

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Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[Rich Bowen]

> On Apr 19, 2024, at 7:08 AM, Raphael Bircher  wrote:
> 
> The JavaScript Calendar will only need a .ics files

I would *really* like to not have to edit ics files directly. That way lies 
madness.

Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[Raphael Bircher]

Hi Sebb

On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 11:38 AM sebb  wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 at 10:21, Raphael Bircher 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Sebb
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 10:49 AM sebb  wrote:
> >
> >
> > To put the data in a (JavaScript) generated Calendar like the one who was
> > included via IFrame.
>
> But which data exactly? Where would the data be kept?
>
> The ICal file from google. We could fetch it directly from google or fetch
it regularly on our server and include it from there into the JavaScript.

And would the page have the same functionality as the existing Google
> calendar?
>

Not exactly the same I think

>
> If not, what would be different?
>
The main benefit would be, that we are able to move away from Google
Calendar like Rich recommended earlier in the discussion
The JavaScript Calendar will only need a .ics files

Regards, Raphael

Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[sebb]

On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 at 10:21, Raphael Bircher  wrote:
>
> Hi Sebb
>
> On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 10:49 AM sebb  wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 at 09:23, Raphael Bircher 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 10:10 AM sebb  wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 at 05:58, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Sebb,
> > > > >
> > > > > That is a a good approach! Can a similar approach be used with
> > > >
> > https://calendar.google.com/calendar/u/0/embed?src=nerseigospses068jd57bk5...@group.calendar.google.com=UTC=1
> > > >
> > > > If you are referring to the reference on the event/calendar.html page,
> > > > then no.
> > > >
> > > > As already noted, that is a dynamic page, whereas the front page only
> > > > shows the first 20 entries.
> > > >
> > > > Should we, (Vefko) now work on a JavaScript solution or not?
> >
> > Solution to what exactly?
> >
>
> To put the data in a (JavaScript) generated Calendar like the one who was
> included via IFrame.

But which data exactly? Where would the data be kept?

And would the page have the same functionality as the existing Google calendar?

If not, what would be different?

> Regards, Raphael

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Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[Raphael Bircher]

Hi Sebb

On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 10:49 AM sebb  wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 at 09:23, Raphael Bircher 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 10:10 AM sebb  wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 at 05:58, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Sebb,
> > > >
> > > > That is a a good approach! Can a similar approach be used with
> > >
> https://calendar.google.com/calendar/u/0/embed?src=nerseigospses068jd57bk5...@group.calendar.google.com=UTC=1
> > >
> > > If you are referring to the reference on the event/calendar.html page,
> > > then no.
> > >
> > > As already noted, that is a dynamic page, whereas the front page only
> > > shows the first 20 entries.
> > >
> > > Should we, (Vefko) now work on a JavaScript solution or not?
>
> Solution to what exactly?
>

To put the data in a (JavaScript) generated Calendar like the one who was
included via IFrame.

Regards, Raphael

Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[sebb]

On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 at 09:23, Raphael Bircher  wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 10:10 AM sebb  wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 at 05:58, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Sebb,
> > >
> > > That is a a good approach! Can a similar approach be used with
> > https://calendar.google.com/calendar/u/0/embed?src=nerseigospses068jd57bk5...@group.calendar.google.com=UTC=1
> >
> > If you are referring to the reference on the event/calendar.html page,
> > then no.
> >
> > As already noted, that is a dynamic page, whereas the front page only
> > shows the first 20 entries.
> >
> > Should we, (Vefko) now work on a JavaScript solution or not?

Solution to what exactly?

> Regards, Raphael

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Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[Raphael Bircher]

Hi all

On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 10:10 AM sebb  wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 at 05:58, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Sebb,
> >
> > That is a a good approach! Can a similar approach be used with
> https://calendar.google.com/calendar/u/0/embed?src=nerseigospses068jd57bk5...@group.calendar.google.com=UTC=1
>
> If you are referring to the reference on the event/calendar.html page,
> then no.
>
> As already noted, that is a dynamic page, whereas the front page only
> shows the first 20 entries.
>
> Should we, (Vefko) now work on a JavaScript solution or not?

Regards, Raphael

Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[sebb]

On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 at 05:58, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>
> Hi Sebb,
>
> That is a a good approach! Can a similar approach be used with 
> https://calendar.google.com/calendar/u/0/embed?src=nerseigospses068jd57bk5...@group.calendar.google.com=UTC=1

If you are referring to the reference on the event/calendar.html page, then no.

As already noted, that is a dynamic page, whereas the front page only
shows the first 20 entries.

> Best,
> Dave
>
> > On Apr 18, 2024, at 4:47 PM, sebb  wrote:
> >
> > OK, done.
> >
> > https://community-calendar.staged.apache.org/ shows the calendar from
> > a local copy of the calendar data.
> > It should look exactly the same as the main site.
> >
> > The plan is to fetch the calendar regularly using a GHA cron job
> > (daily should be sufficient; it can always be triggered manually if
> > necessary).
> >
> > On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 at 15:44, sebb  wrote:
> >>
> >> Note that we don't have a DPA with Google, and it is extremely
> >> unlikely that we ever will, so the calendar on the main page also
> >> falls foul of the ASF privacy policy.
> >>
> >> Given that the data is static, it should not be too difficult to
> >> extract the data when the site is built.
> >>
> >> I'll try and look at that later.
> >>
> >> On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 at 15:27, Rich Bowen  wrote:
> >>>
>  On Apr 18, 2024, at 10:25 AM, Raphael Bircher  
>  wrote:
> 
>  Hi all
> 
>  Just a notice: before we install an other tool only to have a Ical
>  function... confluence already has a calendar.
> >>>
> >>> Can you possibly say more about this, or perhaps provide a link?
> >>> -
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> >>>
> >
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> >
>
>
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Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Sebb,

That is a a good approach! Can a similar approach be used with 
https://calendar.google.com/calendar/u/0/embed?src=nerseigospses068jd57bk5...@group.calendar.google.com=UTC=1

Best,
Dave

> On Apr 18, 2024, at 4:47 PM, sebb  wrote:
> 
> OK, done.
> 
> https://community-calendar.staged.apache.org/ shows the calendar from
> a local copy of the calendar data.
> It should look exactly the same as the main site.
> 
> The plan is to fetch the calendar regularly using a GHA cron job
> (daily should be sufficient; it can always be triggered manually if
> necessary).
> 
> On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 at 15:44, sebb  wrote:
>> 
>> Note that we don't have a DPA with Google, and it is extremely
>> unlikely that we ever will, so the calendar on the main page also
>> falls foul of the ASF privacy policy.
>> 
>> Given that the data is static, it should not be too difficult to
>> extract the data when the site is built.
>> 
>> I'll try and look at that later.
>> 
>> On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 at 15:27, Rich Bowen  wrote:
>>> 
 On Apr 18, 2024, at 10:25 AM, Raphael Bircher  
 wrote:
 
 Hi all
 
 Just a notice: before we install an other tool only to have a Ical
 function... confluence already has a calendar.
>>> 
>>> Can you possibly say more about this, or perhaps provide a link?
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> 
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Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[sebb]

OK, done.

https://community-calendar.staged.apache.org/ shows the calendar from
a local copy of the calendar data.
It should look exactly the same as the main site.

The plan is to fetch the calendar regularly using a GHA cron job
(daily should be sufficient; it can always be triggered manually if
necessary).

On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 at 15:44, sebb  wrote:
>
> Note that we don't have a DPA with Google, and it is extremely
> unlikely that we ever will, so the calendar on the main page also
> falls foul of the ASF privacy policy.
>
> Given that the data is static, it should not be too difficult to
> extract the data when the site is built.
>
> I'll try and look at that later.
>
> On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 at 15:27, Rich Bowen  wrote:
> >
> > > On Apr 18, 2024, at 10:25 AM, Raphael Bircher  
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all
> > >
> > > Just a notice: before we install an other tool only to have a Ical
> > > function... confluence already has a calendar.
> >
> > Can you possibly say more about this, or perhaps provide a link?
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> >

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Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[sebb]

Note that we don't have a DPA with Google, and it is extremely
unlikely that we ever will, so the calendar on the main page also
falls foul of the ASF privacy policy.

Given that the data is static, it should not be too difficult to
extract the data when the site is built.

I'll try and look at that later.

On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 at 15:27, Rich Bowen  wrote:
>
> > On Apr 18, 2024, at 10:25 AM, Raphael Bircher  
> > wrote:
> >
> > Hi all
> >
> > Just a notice: before we install an other tool only to have a Ical
> > function... confluence already has a calendar.
>
> Can you possibly say more about this, or perhaps provide a link?
> -
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Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[Raphael Bircher]

Hi Rich


On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 4:27 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:

> > On Apr 18, 2024, at 10:25 AM, Raphael Bircher 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all
> >
> > Just a notice: before we install an other tool only to have a Ical
> > function... confluence already has a calendar.
>
>
 Ok, we need to install an extension for it.

Can you possibly say more about this, or perhaps provide a link?
>

https://confluence.atlassian.com/teamcal/create-add-and-edit-calendars-654213559.html


Regards, Raphael

Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[Rich Bowen]

> On Apr 18, 2024, at 10:25 AM, Raphael Bircher  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi all
> 
> Just a notice: before we install an other tool only to have a Ical
> function... confluence already has a calendar.

Can you possibly say more about this, or perhaps provide a link?
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Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[Raphael Bircher]

Hi all

Just a notice: before we install an other tool only to have a Ical
function... confluence already has a calendar.

Regards, Raphael

On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 7:40 PM Raphael Bircher 
wrote:

> I don't promise this yet. but I vound an interesting tool for this
> https://github.com/barryvan/discal/tree/master
>
> Maybe a Task for my trainee ;-)
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 6:40 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:
>
>> On Apr 17, 2024, at 12:33 PM, Raphael Bircher 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Rich
>> >
>> > The ICal from Google seems to work, so we could use a JavaScript
>> wrapper to
>> > display it on the page. And if we want, we could replace the iCal Feed
>> from
>> > Google to our own Doc food ;-)
>>
>> To be clear, are you volunteering to do this work?
>>
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
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>>
>>

Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[Raphael Bircher]

I don't promise this yet. but I vound an interesting tool for this
https://github.com/barryvan/discal/tree/master

Maybe a Task for my trainee ;-)

On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 6:40 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:

> On Apr 17, 2024, at 12:33 PM, Raphael Bircher 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Rich
> >
> > The ICal from Google seems to work, so we could use a JavaScript wrapper
> to
> > display it on the page. And if we want, we could replace the iCal Feed
> from
> > Google to our own Doc food ;-)
>
> To be clear, are you volunteering to do this work?
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
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>
>

Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[sebb]

As a work-round, I have replaced the embedded calendar with a clickable link.
I agree it is not ideal, but at least it works.

Note that there is a fundamental difference between the summary
calendar on the main page and the full calendar, now no longer
embedded.

The former is a fixed list, with no user interaction, the latter
allows for scrolling by month etc.
I am not an expert, but I suspect it would be difficult to wrap that
in Javascript.

On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 at 17:39, Rich Bowen  wrote:
>
> On Apr 17, 2024, at 12:33 PM, Raphael Bircher  
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Rich
> >
> > The ICal from Google seems to work, so we could use a JavaScript wrapper to
> > display it on the page. And if we want, we could replace the iCal Feed from
> > Google to our own Doc food ;-)
>
> To be clear, are you volunteering to do this work?
>
>
> -
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Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[Rich Bowen]

On Apr 17, 2024, at 12:33 PM, Raphael Bircher  wrote:
> 
> Hi Rich
> 
> The ICal from Google seems to work, so we could use a JavaScript wrapper to
> display it on the page. And if we want, we could replace the iCal Feed from
> Google to our own Doc food ;-)

To be clear, are you volunteering to do this work?


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Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[Raphael Bircher]

Hi Rich

The ICal from Google seems to work, so we could use a JavaScript wrapper to
display it on the page. And if we want, we could replace the iCal Feed from
Google to our own Doc food ;-)

Regards Raphael

On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 6:00 PM Rich Bowen  wrote:

>
> > On Apr 17, 2024, at 11:46 AM, sebb  wrote:
> >
> > An obvious work-round is to provide a link to the calendar, rather
> > than embedding it.
> >
> > A link requires action by the user, so presumably counts as giving
> > consent, (as long as the destination of the link is clear).
>
>
> Sure. This also feels like a much worse user experience than having the
> calendar displayed on our own site.
>
> Either way, someone needs to do this work.
>
>

Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[sebb]

On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 at 17:01, Rich Bowen  wrote:
>
>
> > On Apr 17, 2024, at 11:46 AM, sebb  wrote:
> >
> > An obvious work-round is to provide a link to the calendar, rather
> > than embedding it.
> >
> > A link requires action by the user, so presumably counts as giving
> > consent, (as long as the destination of the link is clear).
>
>
> Sure. This also feels like a much worse user experience than having the 
> calendar displayed on our own site.

But better than no calendar, and better than exposing PII without permission.

> Either way, someone needs to do this work.
>

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Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[Rich Bowen]

> On Apr 17, 2024, at 11:46 AM, sebb  wrote:
> 
> An obvious work-round is to provide a link to the calendar, rather
> than embedding it.
> 
> A link requires action by the user, so presumably counts as giving
> consent, (as long as the destination of the link is clear).


Sure. This also feels like a much worse user experience than having the 
calendar displayed on our own site.

Either way, someone needs to do this work.

Re: Events calendar: help wanted

[sebb]

An obvious work-round is to provide a link to the calendar, rather
than embedding it.

A link requires action by the user, so presumably counts as giving
consent, (as long as the destination of the link is clear).

On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 at 14:14, Rich Bowen  wrote:
>
> events.apache.org  is where we list upcoming 
> events - both primary ASF events (Community Over Code) and project events 
> (Pulsar Summit, eg) that have been approved by Trademarks and ComDev.
>
> This site is backed by a Google Calendar, which is maintained by myself, Mark 
> Thomas, and a handful of other people.
>
> Due to changes in policy (I’m honestly completely unclear whether this is ASF 
> policy, Google policy, or something else) the calendar page - 
> https://events.apache.org/event/calendar.html - no longer works. There is a 
> thread discussing this, and possible remediation, over on the 
> plann...@apachecon.com  list - 
> https://lists.apache.org/thread/14v10tfbrjb50m21skl2mn1bgf6tj6go - but I’m 
> really not sure how to proceed from here.
>
> I see two possible solutions here:
>
> 1) We move the calendar to something that doesn’t involve a third-party 
> provider. This strikes me as the best option - we own the data, and have some 
> method of displaying that data that doesn’t rely on anyone else. There used 
> to be a *ton* of open source calendaring solutions that we could host on our 
> site. (I, myself, used to maintain a Perl CGI calendar called WebCal, way 
> back in the late 1900s.) I would appreciate someone stepping up to find, 
> evaluate, and recommend an option here that we can put into the events site.
>
> 2) Try to jump through the various hoops to get Google Cal working again. 
> This does *not* feel like the right approach, to me, since it seems that we’d 
> just be kicking the can down the road a while longer until yet another 
> privacy policy bites us.
>
> The events site is in Git here: https://github.com/apache/comdev-events-site
>
> Is anyone available/willing to help with this work?
>
> —
> Rich Bowen
> rbo...@rcbowen.com
>
>
>
>

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