Re: Eclipse D Development Tools (DDT) plug-in version 0.10.2 released

2014-09-02 Thread Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 28/08/2014 22:54, Daniel Kozak wrote: On Thursday, 28 August 2014 at 21:20:48 UTC, Bruno Medeiros wrote: In particular this was a minor release and likely not that worthy of D.announce . There wasn't that many improvements or bug fixes either, you are over-selling it. I don't agree with

Re: Eclipse D Development Tools (DDT) plug-in version 0.10.2 released

2014-09-02 Thread Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 29/08/2014 02:51, Dicebot wrote: On Thursday, 28 August 2014 at 21:20:48 UTC, Bruno Medeiros wrote: I appreciate your enthusiasm, but in the future let me post the release announcements myself. In particular this was a minor release and likely not that worthy of D.announce . There wasn't

Re: DVM - D Version Manager 0.4.3

2014-09-02 Thread Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 9/2/2014 3:46 PM, Jacob Carlborg wrote: I just released a new version of DVM, 0.4.3. [...] Version 0.4.3 New/Changed Features * Add support for Dub * Since issue 23 has been fixed this means that now both 32 and 64bit libraries are supported simultaneously Bugs Fixed * Fix

Re: DVM - D Version Manager 0.4.3

2014-09-02 Thread eles via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 20:05:21 UTC, eles wrote: On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 19:46:32 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: That would indeed make install even easier. And, especially, updates.

Re: why does DMD compile hello world to about 500 _kilobytes_ on Mac OS X [x86_64]?!?

2014-09-02 Thread Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d
On 01/09/14 20:33, Dicebot wrote: Any reason why it can't work for OSX in a same way? Assuming LDC does emit ModuleInfo Co sections the same way it does on Linux, using OSX specific alternative to --gc-sections should just work. It does not emit these sections the same way, at least not on

Re: Voting: std.logger

2014-09-02 Thread Kevin Lamonte via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 1 September 2014 at 10:43:34 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: I guess the most robust solution is to use shared memory and fork, when the child dies you soup up the log and upload it to a logging-server. I'm used to a centralized system taking logs on a continuous basis, with

Re: code cleanup in druntime and phobos

2014-09-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Mon, 01 Sep 2014 15:52:45 -0700 Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 8/30/2014 7:37 AM, Dicebot wrote: GitHub is an intrusive closed ecosystem and it is legitimate concern for anyone caring about the open internet. How so? github or GTFO! signature.asc

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Mon, 01 Sep 2014 17:03:01 -0700 Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: I also don't agree with the notion of having @trusted blocks of the form: @trusted { ... system code ... } We already have a mechanism to do that - @trusted nested

Re: Voting: std.logger

2014-09-02 Thread eles via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 1 September 2014 at 18:57:25 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: On Monday, 1 September 2014 at 16:52:16 UTC, Dicebot wrote: You are totally misunderstanding goals of std.logger - people as _expected_ to roll their own Loggers. std.logger is here only to provide standard API for those

Re: why does DMD compile hello world to about 500 _kilobytes_ on Mac OS X [x86_64]?!?

2014-09-02 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 06:18:27 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 01/09/14 20:33, Dicebot wrote: Any reason why it can't work for OSX in a same way? Assuming LDC does emit ModuleInfo Co sections the same way it does on Linux, using OSX specific alternative to --gc-sections should just

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 06:44:13 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: why don't add some sugar here? nothing will stop a dedicated person if he wants to write bad code. yet making life harder for thouse who knows what they doing is... anti-human. this discriminating knowledgeable

Anonymous GitHub user for casual D contributions

2014-09-02 Thread Tourist via Digitalmars-d
On Saturday, 30 August 2014 at 10:57:51 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: Hello. there are some c-style array declarations both in druntime and in phobos. i made two patches that fixes 'em: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13401 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13402

Re: Voting: std.logger

2014-09-02 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 06:53:30 UTC, eles wrote: Oh, I understand the intentions perfectly well, but the default should be performant, multithreaded, and cover the most common use scenario. +1 While its useful for the standard library to provide stubs, these mean very little

Re: Anonymous GitHub user for casual D contributions

2014-09-02 Thread eles via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 07:11:03 UTC, Tourist wrote: On Saturday, 30 August 2014 at 10:57:51 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: Don't want to register on GitHub? Just use those: Username: d-random-contributor Password: d-random-contributor-password Thanks. I was thinking about

Re: Anonymous GitHub user for casual D contributions

2014-09-02 Thread eles via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 07:16:14 UTC, eles wrote: On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 07:11:03 UTC, Tourist wrote: On Saturday, 30 August 2014 at 10:57:51 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: Thanks. I was thinking about that but that will make the copyright a bit problematic, I think.

Re: code cleanup in druntime and phobos

2014-09-02 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 1 September 2014 at 22:52:46 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 8/30/2014 7:37 AM, Dicebot wrote: GitHub is an intrusive closed ecosystem and it is legitimate concern for anyone caring about the open internet. How so? The github repositories are mirrored on my machine as git

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 07:03:05 + Dicebot via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Because by adding dedicated syntax you save 2 (two!) symbols and gain nothing else. except code readability. anti-human tendencies. And get all the associated compiler maintenance costs which

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 07:41:25 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: And get all the associated compiler maintenance costs which add up with each smallest feature. so let's stop adding features at all. and extending Phobos too. we are so scared by adding even simple things. This is

Re: Anonymous GitHub user for casual D contributions

2014-09-02 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 9/2/2014 12:11 AM, Tourist wrote: On Saturday, 30 August 2014 at 10:57:51 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: Hello. there are some c-style array declarations both in druntime and in phobos. i made two patches that fixes 'em: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13401

Re: LDC has the --gc-sections flag, etc.

2014-09-02 Thread Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d
On 2 September 2014 01:03, David Nadlinger via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Monday, 1 September 2014 at 22:17:13 UTC, Abe wrote: Do you guys — or anybody else — know what the situation is with GDC? Does it strip out unneeded sections/symbols/both, or is it just dumping

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 07:48:15 + Dicebot via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: This is rather strict policy. and that is why my local D diverges more and more from mainline D. 'cause i know where to download C++ compiler if i want language which not trying to make my life

[OT] If programming languages were weapons

2014-09-02 Thread Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d
In normal fashion, it's missing an entry for D. http://bjorn.tipling.com/if-programming-languages-were-weapons I'll let your imaginations do the work. Iain.

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread bearophile via Digitalmars-d
ketmar: and that is why my local D diverges more and more from mainline D. This is a bad idea, it leads to an increase of your dissatisfaction, until you stop using D :-( Bye, bearophile

Re: [OT] EU patents [was Microsoft filled patent applications for scoped and immutable types]

2014-09-02 Thread Chris via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 1 September 2014 at 20:02:41 UTC, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Mon, 2014-09-01 at 19:49 +, Chris via Digitalmars-d wrote: […] True, true. Most people don't realize / care about how all this stuff affects them. In fact, your average iPhone user will be quite happy

Re: [OT] Microsoft filled patent applications for scoped and immutable types

2014-09-02 Thread Chris via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 1 September 2014 at 21:35:04 UTC, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Mon, 2014-09-01 at 21:01 +, Chris via Digitalmars-d wrote: […] Being on holiday at a crucial moment is dangerous, do you remember how Bill Gates got his first big job that started it all? :-) Bill

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 08:40:35 + bearophile via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: and that is why my local D diverges more and more from mainline D. This is a bad idea, it leads to an increase of your dissatisfaction, until you stop using D :-( no, it just leads me to

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 06:44:13 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Mon, 01 Sep 2014 17:03:01 -0700 Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: I also don't agree with the notion of having @trusted blocks of the form: @trusted { ... system

Some notes on performance

2014-09-02 Thread Joakim via Digitalmars-d
I was googling around for information on ninja, the build system used by the Chromium project, when I stumbled across this interesting article about how it was optimized for performance: http://aosabook.org/en/posa/ninja.html I also read these two from that site, the latter of which I think

Re: Before we implement SDL package format for DUB

2014-09-02 Thread Kagamin via Digitalmars-d
On Friday, 29 August 2014 at 19:53:26 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: True for XML too: 1. many editors already autocomplete it, no need to wonder, why nobody implemented it; Personally, I don't like that auto-insert stuff, it just trips me up. Didn't you argue for autoinserting? If you don't

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 09:24:37 + Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: And thus we end with the security exploits and computer errors C has brought into the world. ok, so we should disable @trusted nested functions then, 'cause @trusted blocks are just syntactic

Re: [OT] If programming languages were weapons

2014-09-02 Thread Chris via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 08:29:25 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote: In normal fashion, it's missing an entry for D. http://bjorn.tipling.com/if-programming-languages-were-weapons I'll let your imaginations do the work. Iain. In a way it's good that it's missing an entry for D, because he

Re: [OT] If programming languages were weapons

2014-09-02 Thread monarch_dodra via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 09:46:54 UTC, Chris wrote: On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 08:29:25 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote: In normal fashion, it's missing an entry for D. http://bjorn.tipling.com/if-programming-languages-were-weapons I'll let your imaginations do the work. Iain. In a way

Re: Voting: std.logger

2014-09-02 Thread via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 06:24:45 UTC, Kevin Lamonte wrote: I'm used to a centralized system taking logs on a continuous basis, with normal, I'm happy messages coming through in a regular interval. When the application dies, it already has had its messages emitted and sucked up by the

Re: Some notes on performance

2014-09-02 Thread po via Digitalmars-d
The first link says that Chrome is a *90* meg binary! Gawd damn. Either they write some really bloated code, or modern browsers require way too much shit to function. On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 09:27:29 UTC, Joakim wrote: I was googling around for information on ninja, the build system

Re: Voting: std.logger

2014-09-02 Thread via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 07:10:29 UTC, Dicebot wrote: into std.experimental. Right now it is not in the scope of the review and I will simply ignore all comments that are related purely to implementation. Configuration of logging is part of the API. Conversion of objects to log info

Re: Some notes on performance

2014-09-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 10:23:58 UTC, po wrote: The first link says that Chrome is a *90* meg binary! Gawd damn. Either they write some really bloated code, or modern browsers require way too much shit to function. You should see how big it gets when you build it with all the debug

Re: Some notes on performance

2014-09-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 10:23:57 + po via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: The first link says that Chrome is a *90* meg binary! Gawd damn. Either they write some really bloated code, or modern browsers require way too much shit to function. i believe that he means

Re: [OT] If programming languages were weapons

2014-09-02 Thread Chris via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 10:03:12 UTC, monarch_dodra wrote: On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 09:46:54 UTC, Chris wrote: On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 08:29:25 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote: In normal fashion, it's missing an entry for D.

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 09:36:50 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 09:24:37 + Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: And thus we end with the security exploits and computer errors C has brought into the world. ok, so we should

Re: Some notes on performance

2014-09-02 Thread Joakim via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 10:23:58 UTC, po wrote: The first link says that Chrome is a *90* meg binary! Gawd damn. Either they write some really bloated code, or modern browsers require way too much shit to function. The latter. On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 10:34:05 UTC, ketmar

Re: Some notes on performance

2014-09-02 Thread Joakim via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 11:19:09 UTC, Joakim wrote: On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 10:23:58 UTC, po wrote: The first link says that Chrome is a *90* meg binary! Gawd damn. Either they write some really bloated code, or modern browsers require way too much shit to function. The

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 11:08:25 + Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: let me ask it again: how, in the name of hell, having handy sugar for the thing that is *already* in the language can hurt us here? signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: Some notes on performance

2014-09-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 10:34:05 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: i believe that he means non-stripped binary. No, I don't think he does. With the debug symbols etc. in place, it gets much, much bigger. :-)

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 11:30:43 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 11:08:25 + Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: let me ask it again: how, in the name of hell, having handy sugar for the thing that is *already* in the language

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 11:37:38 + via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Because it _is_ handy. It shouldn't be. It's supposed to be ugly, to make you think twice whether you actually want to use it. where i can vote for making pointer syntax unusable too? something like 'void

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 08:40:37 UTC, bearophile wrote: ketmar: and that is why my local D diverges more and more from mainline D. This is a bad idea, it leads to an increase of your dissatisfaction, until you stop using D :-( I am interested in ketmar's patches. Modifying the

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 11:37:38 + via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Because it _is_ handy. It shouldn't be. It's supposed to be ugly, to make you think twice whether you actually want to use it. what i'm trying to say it that D either *system* language or java-like crap

Re: code cleanup in druntime and phobos

2014-09-02 Thread Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d
On 30/08/14 16:37, Dicebot wrote: No it is not. GitHub is an intrusive closed ecosystem and it is legitimate concern for anyone caring about the open internet. There are alternatives. Gitlab for example. It's open source but it has commercial interests as well. It's the best alternative I've

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 11:55:58 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 11:37:38 + via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Because it _is_ handy. It shouldn't be. It's supposed to be ugly, to make you think twice whether you actually want to use it.

Re: [OT] Microsoft filled patent applications for scoped and immutable types

2014-09-02 Thread Tobias Müller via Digitalmars-d
Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: First to file not first to invent – by the corporations for the corporations. This should tell you everything you need to know about technological innovation in the USA. I think you misunderstood the first to file rule. In a

Re: Voting: std.logger

2014-09-02 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 10:25:03 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: However, if there any API issues that will likely block the implementation you want - those are very important to hear about. This is #1 priority right now. I am concerned about performance, formatting and type safety.

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 08:24:42 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: please note that i'm not trying to say that D developers doing everything wrong nor that they are incompetent. D is great. but we can make it even better. just stop buying enterprise need stability bs: we have enough

Re: Some notes on performance

2014-09-02 Thread Wyatt via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 11:36:36 UTC, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote: On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 10:34:05 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: i believe that he means non-stripped binary. No, I don't think he does. With the debug symbols etc. in place, it gets much, much bigger.

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 13:15:01 + Dicebot via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: For example, this specific syntax is absolutely guaranteed to result in weird issues because it is ambiguous with already existing one (that applies attributes to declarations). please write a

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 12:18:08 + Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: For some strange reason human life critical systems are written in Ada, SPARK, MISRA C dialect ah, sorry, i was thinking that this is NG for D language... mea culpa. signature.asc Description:

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread bearophile via Digitalmars-d
Paulo Pinto: For some strange reason human life critical systems are written in Ada, SPARK, MISRA C dialect If D designers and developers work to make D better for those usages, someday D could be used to replace the MISRA C and perhaps even some less strict usages of Ada. Bye, bearophile

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 13:42:05 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 12:18:08 + Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: For some strange reason human life critical systems are written in Ada, SPARK, MISRA C dialect ah, sorry, i was

Re: Voting: std.logger

2014-09-02 Thread via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 13:08:02 UTC, Dicebot wrote: While your raise important concerns it doesn't have any practical application right now and I can't use it in any way as part of review process. We need details (see the responses of other voters). Pure theoretical speculations won't

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Dmitry Olshansky via Digitalmars-d
02-Sep-2014 04:03, Walter Bright пишет: On 8/31/2014 6:47 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: import core.stdc.string; import trusted; void main() @safe { char[] msg = Hello!.dup; char[] msg2 = msg; import trusted; // may also use static import for absolute clarity

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Dmitry Olshansky via Digitalmars-d
02-Sep-2014 15:37, Marc Schütz schue...@gmx.net пишет: On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 11:30:43 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 11:08:25 + Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: let me ask it again: how, in the name of hell, having handy

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Dmitry Olshansky via Digitalmars-d
01-Sep-2014 20:36, Daniel Murphy пишет: Dmitry Olshansky wrote in message news:ltv91u$2mtc$1...@digitalmars.com... Quite recently a lot of work has been done to make most of Phobos usable in @safe code. While a very welcome effort, it caused a number of doubts in particular due to the

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Dmitry Olshansky via Digitalmars-d
31-Aug-2014 17:47, Dmitry Olshansky пишет: Quite recently a lot of work has been done to make most of Phobos usable in @safe code. ... What do you guys think? Probably a lot of people missed the point that if we standardize a few idioms (dangerous but at least centralized) we at least can

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 14:10:39 UTC, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: 02-Sep-2014 15:37, Marc Schütz schue...@gmx.net пишет: On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 11:30:43 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: let me ask it again: how, in the name of hell, having handy sugar for the thing that is

Re: Voting: std.logger

2014-09-02 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 13:58:24 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 13:08:02 UTC, Dicebot wrote: While your raise important concerns it doesn't have any practical application right now and I can't use it in any way as part of review process. We need details

Re: Voting: std.logger

2014-09-02 Thread via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 14:53:17 UTC, Dicebot wrote: If you are going to speak more about abstract performance I am going to simply ignore any of your further posts on topic. I am not abstract. These are very concrete requirements: 1. You have to be able to determine types and

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread monarch_dodra via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 14:33:53 UTC, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: 31-Aug-2014 17:47, Dmitry Olshansky пишет: Quite recently a lot of work has been done to make most of Phobos usable in @safe code. ... What do you guys think? Probably a lot of people missed the point that if we

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Andrew Godfrey via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 13:15:02 UTC, Dicebot wrote: On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 08:24:42 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: please note that i'm not trying to say that D developers doing everything wrong nor that they are incompetent. D is great. but we can make it even better.

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Daniel Murphy via Digitalmars-d
Dmitry Olshansky wrote in message news:lu4j4v$leu$1...@digitalmars.com... Making things ugly doesn't make them safe or easier to verify. Somehow people expect the opposite, but just take a look at e.g. OpenSSL :) No, but making unsafe code ugly makes the safe alternatives look more

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Daniel Murphy via Digitalmars-d
Dmitry Olshansky wrote in message news:lu4jld$m0b$1...@digitalmars.com... Only these that import stdx.trusted. Trivial to check. Sure, if this type of function only exists in that module (and there are no public imports of it). But you've still made it so you now have to inspect @safe

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Daniel Murphy via Digitalmars-d
Dmitry Olshansky wrote in message news:lu4iup$l9v$1...@digitalmars.com... void main() @safe { char[] msg = Hello!.dup; char[] msg2 = msg; void checkEquals(const char[] msg, const char[] msg2) pure @trusted { assert(msg.length == msg2.length);

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 13:15:01 + Dicebot via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: For example, this specific syntax is absolutely guaranteed to result in weird issues because it is ambiguous with already existing one (that applies attributes to declarations). ah, you talking

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Daniel Murphy via Digitalmars-d
Dmitry Olshansky wrote in message news:lu4kgh$mpm$1...@digitalmars.com... Probably a lot of people missed the point that if we standardize a few idioms (dangerous but at least centralized) we at least can conveniently contain the abuse of @trusted to the select standard module. Else it

Re: One Stop Shop?

2014-09-02 Thread via Digitalmars-d
I ported a C++ ray tracer to D for a course, using one of the minimalist OpenGL wrappers (some three letter name) and its D binding. Once the worst problems had been ironed out, I was using a pure C++ tutorial to get things to work displaying graphics. There's really not much D about doing

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread monarch_dodra via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 17:20:06 UTC, Daniel Murphy wrote: This is Wrong! Any function that uses these wrappers is abusing @trusted. eg: import stdx.trusted; int* func(int x) @safe { return addrOf(x); } This functions is @safe, but happily returns an invalid pointer. This is

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 9/2/2014 10:20 AM, Daniel Murphy wrote: Having syntax (or a wrapper function) to do the second wrapping automatically would violate @safe. If it was syntax, it would be banned in @safe. If it's a wrapping method like the proposed 'call', then it is a program error for it to be marked

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 9/2/2014 10:11 AM, Daniel Murphy wrote: Yes, that function is more easily verifiable for @safety, because any violation _must_ be inside the @trusted function. The 'pure' attribute helps with that. If the @safe violating helpers were used, main would effectively be @trusted and more

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 9/2/2014 7:07 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: Make distinctive name like assumeSafe and it's going to be trivially grepable. We already have a distinctive name, @trusted. Adding an panopoly of more names make it not so trivially greppable. So there is need, but somehow requires a bunch of

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 17:19:28 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: yes, i'm relatively new in D world and my position may look like extremist one, but all i want is to make D better. that's why i'm writing those posts instead of sitting silently in my shell. i know that we can't

Re: code cleanup in druntime and phobos

2014-09-02 Thread Poyeyo via Digitalmars-d
On Saturday, 30 August 2014 at 14:37:29 UTC, Dicebot wrote: On Saturday, 30 August 2014 at 14:32:01 UTC, Daniel Murphy wrote: Dicebot wrote in message news:xovsaqnanmmgaltip...@forum.dlang.org... It is not hard, it is plain unacceptable for certain people. Call that religious reasons.

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 19:15:46 + via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: After following these forums for quite some time I think the roll-your-own-as-proof-of-concept is the best approach. that's why we need D powerpatches site. i'm working on it, albeit slowly. i see it as

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Dmitry Olshansky via Digitalmars-d
02-Sep-2014 22:50, Walter Bright пишет: On 9/2/2014 10:20 AM, Daniel Murphy wrote: Having syntax (or a wrapper function) to do the second wrapping automatically would violate @safe. If it was syntax, it would be banned in @safe. If it's a wrapping method like the proposed 'call', then it is a

Re: code cleanup in druntime and phobos

2014-09-02 Thread Fool via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 19:23:18 UTC, Poyeyo wrote: ...and none of the political concerns. Gogs A self-hosted Git service written in Go http://gogs.io/

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 19:38:47 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: this is ambitious project, i know. but long time ago D was just a dream too. and this project will help me to improve my nearly non-existent vibe.d skills. ;-) Another approach would be to cooperate on building an

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 9/2/2014 12:40 PM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: Well, whatever. Let's wait to see where our code base goes. :-)

Re: [OT] Microsoft filled patent applications for scoped and immutable types

2014-09-02 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 8/26/2014 12:37 PM, Max Klyga wrote: Microsoft being microsoft again. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2014/0196015.html - DECLARATION OF LIFETIME OF RESOURCE REFERENCE This contains description of scoped classes, etc. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2014/0196008.html - IMMUTABLE OBJECT

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread David Nadlinger via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 18:50:19 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 9/2/2014 10:20 AM, Daniel Murphy wrote: Having syntax (or a wrapper function) to do the second wrapping automatically would violate @safe. If it was syntax, it would be banned in @safe. If it's a wrapping method like the

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 20:04:51 + via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Another approach would be to cooperate on building an infrastructure where it is easy to have multiple parsers in the same build then have the ability so select parser and configure the parser syntax in

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 23:31:05 +0300 ketmar via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: p.s. i REALLY need to take English lessons. signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 20:31:18 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: actually, changing parsers is not that fun, 'cause writing parser needs inner knowledge about compiler and it's AST. and writing complete parser is very tedious. and you will not be able to write whitespace

Re: Before we implement SDL package format for DUB

2014-09-02 Thread Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d
On 9/2/2014 5:33 AM, Kagamin wrote: On Friday, 29 August 2014 at 19:53:26 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: True for XML too: 1. many editors already autocomplete it, no need to wonder, why nobody implemented it; Personally, I don't like that auto-insert stuff, it just trips me up. Didn't you

Re: [OT] Microsoft filled patent applications for scoped and immutable types

2014-09-02 Thread Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, 2014-09-02 at 13:10 -0700, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d wrote: […] Ok, I finally got the Patent Office on the horn. They said this is an ex partae thing, where until the patent is granted, I am not allowed to be part of the process. Only after a patent is granted can I file

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 20:35:05 + via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: If it changes a lot then you can do it as a builtin preprocessor that compiles to D then hand it over to the regular parser. but you can do it as an external tool. if new parser is too far way from D, this

Re: Before we implement SDL package format for DUB

2014-09-02 Thread eles via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 26 August 2014 at 09:43:21 UTC, Sönke Ludwig wrote: Am 26.08.2014 00:14, schrieb Idan Arye: On Monday, 25 August 2014 at 16:40:10 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: What about enhancing the command-line interface of dub to reduce the need of editing the dub.json/dub.sdl file. For

Re: [OT] Microsoft filled patent applications for scoped and immutable types

2014-09-02 Thread Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d
On 9/2/2014 4:10 PM, Walter Bright wrote: They said this is an ex partae thing, where until the patent is granted, I am not allowed to be part of the process. Only after a patent is granted can I file a prior art notice. Bureaucratic scams at their finest... :/ However, I was able to

Re: [OT] If programming languages were weapons

2014-09-02 Thread Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d
On 9/2/2014 6:38 AM, Chris wrote: On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 10:03:12 UTC, monarch_dodra wrote: On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 09:46:54 UTC, Chris wrote: On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 08:29:25 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote: In normal fashion, it's missing an entry for D.

Re: [OT] If programming languages were weapons

2014-09-02 Thread Brian Schott via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 08:29:25 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote: In normal fashion, it's missing an entry for D. http://bjorn.tipling.com/if-programming-languages-were-weapons I'll let your imaginations do the work. Iain.

Re: Crazy code by Adam on SO

2014-09-02 Thread Shammah Chancellor via Digitalmars-d
On 2014-08-29 16:48:51 +, Andrei Alexandrescu said: Worth a look: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2329/d-finding-all-functions-with-certain-attribute Andrei Is this bug fixed then? https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11595

Re: Crazy code by Adam on SO

2014-09-02 Thread Rikki Cattermole via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 22:30:59 UTC, Shammah Chancellor wrote: On 2014-08-29 16:48:51 +, Andrei Alexandrescu said: Worth a look: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2329/d-finding-all-functions-with-certain-attribute Andrei Is this bug fixed then?

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 20:54:55 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: but you can do it as an external tool. if new parser is too far way from D, this is easier than patching the D compiler. and we have Dscanner to parse D code. my patches are relatively small and The change-log for

Re: Encapsulating trust

2014-09-02 Thread deadalnix via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 2 September 2014 at 20:18:24 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote: I agree with monarch_data, this is the executive summary, the salient point, the money shot, etc. +1 from me as the self-proclaimed resident @safe-ty philosopher. We might want to think about fixing the immediately invoked

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