On 11/13/2015 10:31 PM, Sergey Korshunoff via Digitalmars-d wrote:
2015-11-11 15:19 GMT+03:00, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
I've looked into generating C code as an output format. I found the problems to
be endemic and working around them was harder than just generating native
code:
1. You'r
2015-11-11 15:19 GMT+03:00, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
> I've looked into generating C code as an output format. I found the problems
> to
> be endemic and working around them was harder than just generating native
> code:
>
> 1. You're at the mercy of bugs in the C compiler you cannot fix.
>
On 11/13/2015 1:35 PM, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:
In C the OS/hardware vendors define the binary interface and provides the
tooling... So what is your point?
Plenty if useful tools and languages compiles to C successfully. That's a
undeniable fact. That's reality.
True, but that doesn't suppor
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 21:54:25 UTC, Araq wrote:
On Wednesday, 11 November 2015 at 18:25:59 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
Nim does everything according to their marketing department.
The engineering department remains to be found.
Pretty sure you know where you can find me and discuss these
t
On Saturday, 14 November 2015 at 04:10:59 UTC, Steven
Schveighoffer wrote:
Is it me, or is this a bug?
struct Foo
{
template opDispatch(string s) {
// if you uncomment this, it compiles
//void opDispatch() {}
void opDispatch(T...)() {}
}
}
void main()
{
Foo f;
f.bl
On 10/18/15 9:00 PM, David Osborne wrote:
On Saturday, 17 October 2015 at 15:31:00 UTC, Nikolay wrote:
I asked on SO question about opDispatch and compile time parameters:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/32998781/opdispatch-and-compile-time-parameters
[...]
Is it good idea for opDispatch imp
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 23:10:04 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
* Lines 26-29: The allocator is fundamentally a mutable part of
the container. This is an insufficiency of our type system - we
can't say "this object may be constant, but this reference is
to a mutable part of it". We can'
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 19:59:51 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
On 11/12/2015 11:50 AM, Ali Çehreli wrote:
I would love to be convinced. :) Can someone come up with a
reduced
example please?
On 11/12/2015 03:59 AM, Daniel Kozak wrote:
> for (i=0; i < 100; ++i) {
> fmttable
On 11/13/2015 4:37 PM, bachmeier wrote:
I've proposed this before but it didn't get much attention, so let me bring it
up again.
In a lot of cases there are already good explanations in Ali's book or on the
wiki, but new users won't know about them. We could greatly improve the quality
of the do
On 11/13/2015 4:47 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
Count me among them. I've been trying to do a lot of C++ interop
recently; referred to that page which didn't help, and then continued
mainly by trial and error.
I would really like to know the current state for my work, I just try
stuff and ho
On 11/13/2015 9:23 AM, Johannes Pfau wrote:
Ellery filed a bug report and I've posted a reduced test case:
https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15324
Thank you!
Hmm. We can't have immutability and ref counting.
Lets just say, the only time ref counting should come into effect is IF
it has been removed from the list. This way the list should consider it
'owned' by it.
This is where I say, immutability by itself isn't the problem. The
problem is we are
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 21:48:58 UTC, Rory McGuire wrote:
On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 2:02 AM, Jonathan M Davis via
Digitalmars-d < digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
We've been adding lazy versions of functions for years now,
and we've never removed the eager versions. And I'm pretty
su
On 13/11/2015 8:26 PM, Robert burner Schadek wrote:
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 02:50:07 UTC, Daniel Murphy wrote:
You also need to modify root/rmem.d to actually use the GC as the
allocator.
I should have known that it couldn't be that simple. Anyway, after doing
so. Building druntime and
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 21:30:34 UTC, karabuta wrote:
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 20:03:38 UTC, Ramon wrote:
Just for note, you can make desktop D applications in
HTML/CSS3/scripting using
https://github.com/midiway/sciter-dport
May be Github's Electron or D's webview bindings(whic
On 14 November 2015 at 09:24, tsbockman via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 22:34:18 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>>
>> Recently there's been an uptick of site visits on dlang.org and also dmd
>> downloads (http://erdani.com/d/downloads.daily.png).
>>
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 22:34:18 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
Hi everyone,
Recently there's been an uptick of site visits on dlang.org and
also dmd downloads (http://erdani.com/d/downloads.daily.png).
Amid increased scrutiny it's important to focus on improving
documentation. I su
On 13 November 2015 at 08:38, Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> On 12 Nov 2015 10:25 pm, "David Nadlinger via Digitalmars-d"
> wrote:
>>
>> On Thursday, 12 November 2015 at 21:16:25 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
>>>
>>> It's more than that - dmd's optimizer is designed to make use of the
>>> gua
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 23:44:51 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer
wrote:
++("I definitely think it's something that should be updated.");
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 23:10:04 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
* Lines 11-12: I came to terms with the notion that some types
cannot be made immutable. We've been trying to do reference
counting on immutable objects for a long time. It's time to
acknowledge that true immutability (whic
On 11/13/15 6:24 PM, tsbockman wrote:
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 22:34:18 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
Hi everyone,
Recently there's been an uptick of site visits on dlang.org and also
dmd downloads (http://erdani.com/d/downloads.daily.png).
Amid increased scrutiny it's important to fo
On 11/14/2015 12:10 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
* Lines 6: By construction the list doesn't work with mutable objects.
=(
On 11/13/15 6:10 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
I created a simple persistent list with reference counting and custom
allocation at http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/0981640c2835. It's a good
illustration of a number of issues. In particular, each cast must be
properly explained.
Here's my exegesis:
* L
On 11/13/2015 03:10 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> at http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/0981640c2835
> * Lines 11-12: I came to terms with the notion that some types cannot be
> made immutable.
Could constructor qualifiers help in such cases? I would like to hear
war stories and experiences from others
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 22:34:18 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
Hi everyone,
Recently there's been an uptick of site visits on dlang.org and
also dmd downloads (http://erdani.com/d/downloads.daily.png).
Amid increased scrutiny it's important to focus on improving
documentation. I su
I created a simple persistent list with reference counting and custom
allocation at http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/0981640c2835. It's a good
illustration of a number of issues. In particular, each cast must be
properly explained.
Here's my exegesis:
* Lines 6: By construction the list doesn't work wit
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 22:34:18 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
Hi everyone,
Recently there's been an uptick of site visits on dlang.org and
also dmd downloads (http://erdani.com/d/downloads.daily.png).
Amid increased scrutiny it's important to focus on improving
documentation. I su
Hi everyone,
Recently there's been an uptick of site visits on dlang.org and also dmd
downloads (http://erdani.com/d/downloads.daily.png).
Amid increased scrutiny it's important to focus on improving
documentation. I suggest everyone in the community to consider improving
dlang.org in any w
On Wednesday, 11 November 2015 at 18:25:59 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
Nim does everything according to their marketing department.
The engineering department remains to be found.
Pretty sure you know where you can find me and discuss these
things with me. Not sure if I count as a software engineer
On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 2:02 AM, Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d <
digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
>
> We've been adding lazy versions of functions for years now, and we've
> never removed the eager versions. And I'm pretty sure that Walter and
> Andrei have generally been opposed to the ide
In C the OS/hardware vendors define the binary interface and
provides the tooling... So what is your point?
Plenty if useful tools and languages compiles to C successfully.
That's a undeniable fact. That's reality.
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 20:03:38 UTC, Ramon wrote:
Just for note, you can make desktop D applications in
HTML/CSS3/scripting using
https://github.com/midiway/sciter-dport
May be Github's Electron or D's webview bindings(which also
abstracts too much, with too much weird naming convent
On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 6:56 PM, Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d <
digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
>
> I've been using dvm, and do like it a lot. But I couple issues:
>
> 1. Every time I type dvm use, my path adds another directory. Couldn't you
> just replace the existing dvm path?
> 2
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 20:51:54 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad
wrote:
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 14:31:08 UTC, Chris wrote:
So D does a better job at interfacing to C/C++, because it
uses the same memory model as C/C++, as opposed to outputting
C code like Nim. This is actually very cleve
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 14:31:08 UTC, Chris wrote:
So D does a better job at interfacing to C/C++, because it uses
the same memory model as C/C++, as opposed to outputting C code
like Nim. This is actually very clever.
err... No. You get better interop by transpiling to C/C++.
With C i
On Thursday, 12 November 2015 at 21:24:30 UTC, David Nadlinger
wrote:
On Thursday, 12 November 2015 at 21:16:25 UTC, Walter Bright
wrote:
[...]
Oh, GCC has had similar notions as a non-standard attribute for
ages, and LLVM since its inception.
At least for LDC, the reason why we do not curr
Just for note, you can make desktop D applications in
HTML/CSS3/scripting using https://github.com/midiway/sciter-dport
On 11/12/2015 11:50 AM, Ali Çehreli wrote:
I would love to be convinced. :) Can someone come up with a reduced
example please?
On 11/12/2015 03:59 AM, Daniel Kozak wrote:
> for (i=0; i < 100; ++i) {
> fmttable(table);
> }
I think what we are seeing here is more due to
On 11/13/2015 12:25 PM, rsw0x wrote:
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 17:01:34 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
I just submitted https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15328 which
is currently blocking my work on containers.
In brief the postblit isn't called upon calling
Range save() { return
On 13 November 2015 at 18:45, Dan Olson via Digitalmars-d <
digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
> Johannes Pfau writes:
>
> > Am Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:59:14 -0800
> > schrieb Dan Olson :
> >
> >> Johannes Pfau writes:
> >> > To expand on this: I think we'd prefer one __d_personality_v0 which
> >>
This is primer program on QtE
import std.stdio;// writeln
import core.runtime; // Processing of input parameters
import std.net.curl: get;
import qte; // work with Qt
class Exam: QMainWindow {
this() {
Johannes Pfau writes:
> Am Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:59:14 -0800
> schrieb Dan Olson :
>
>> Johannes Pfau writes:
>> > To expand on this: I think we'd prefer one __d_personality_v0 which
>> > is implemented in upstream druntime and identical for all
>> > compilers.
>>
>> Speacking of upstream suppo
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 17:25:44 UTC, rsw0x wrote:
afaik that's RVO, isn't it?
D's RVO semantics are pretty much unspecified still(outside of
dmd,) I believe(don't quote me) that walter said it's supposed
to be part of the spec but I could never find anything.
Well, RVO is used when th
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 17:01:34 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
I just submitted https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15328
which is currently blocking my work on containers.
In brief the postblit isn't called upon calling
Range save() { return this; }
which of course is less than
Am Thu, 12 Nov 2015 15:15:24 -0800
schrieb Walter Bright :
> On 11/11/2015 5:47 AM, Johannes Pfau wrote:
> > Ellery Newcomer recently reported a template emission bug where
> > templates are emitted twice:
> > http://forum.dlang.org/thread/n1omke$1bh5$1...@digitalmars.com
>
> Please file bug re
I just submitted https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15328 which is
currently blocking my work on containers.
In brief the postblit isn't called upon calling
Range save() { return this; }
which of course is less than helpful.
Reductions of the example would be awesome - I reduced it a fa
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 00:26:04 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev
wrote:
On Thursday, 12 November 2015 at 23:04:11 UTC, Ramon wrote:
I registered in the wiki
http://wiki.dlang.org/The_D_Programming_Language, but I never
receive the confirmation e-mail, so I can't contribute..
maybe someone can
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 13:30:13 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
Any takers for https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15327?
-- Andrei
Fixing it so that assert(0) doesn't count against the code
coverage would be fantastic. Without enhancements like it,
requiring 100% code coverage o
On Wednesday, 11 November 2015 at 12:19:40 UTC, Walter Bright
wrote:
On 11/9/2015 3:26 PM, deadalnix wrote:
I've looked into generating C code as an output format. I found
the problems to be endemic and working around them was harder
than just generating native code:
1. You're at the mercy o
On Wednesday, 11 November 2015 at 13:08:08 UTC, David Nadlinger
wrote:
Hi all,
Kenji and Walter have been working on improving the template
emission strategy during the last couple of releases, i.e.
whether a template instance is emitted to a given object file
or not. Nevertheless, I've been
On Wednesday, 11 November 2015 at 13:56:51 UTC, Martin Nowak
wrote:
On Wednesday, 11 November 2015 at 13:47:27 UTC, Johannes Pfau
wrote:
I think we should really fix these issues, working separate
compilation is very important.
No, it's not. Separate compilation is C++-ishly slow by design
(b
Any takers for https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15327? -- Andrei
On 11/12/15 10:21 PM, Xinok wrote:
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 01:19:22 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On 11/12/2015 08:18 PM, Xinok wrote:
The following code compiles and runs:
import std.stdio, std.random;
void main()
{
writeln(rndGen);
}
Since rndGen is an infinite range, this co
On 11/12/15 6:04 PM, Ramon wrote:
I registered in the wiki
http://wiki.dlang.org/The_D_Programming_Language, but I never receive
the confirmation e-mail, so I can't contribute..
maybe someone can manually activate my account: midiway
Vladimir has an explanation, but one thing I do remember a l
On Thursday, 12 November 2015 at 23:08:57 UTC, Jakob Ovrum wrote:
> [...dependency check...]
It can be implemented as an external tool with the -deps
compiler switch.
there is depend [1].
It warns about cycles and unintended dependencies if you specify
the target dependencies.
It helps us
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 12:06:43 UTC, Matthias Bentrup
wrote:
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 09:33:51 UTC, John Colvin wrote:
unsigned: f(v) = v mod 2^n - 1
signed: f(v) = ((v + 2^(n-1)) mod (2^n - 1)) - 2^(n-1)
I guess you meant mod 2^n in both cases...
haha, yes, sorry.
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 09:33:51 UTC, John Colvin wrote:
unsigned: f(v) = v mod 2^n - 1
signed: f(v) = ((v + 2^(n-1)) mod (2^n - 1)) - 2^(n-1)
I guess you meant mod 2^n in both cases...
If you look at how Mathematics deals with this issue, there is
simply no signed or unsigned arithmet
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 10:20:53 UTC, Don wrote:
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 09:37:41 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 09:33:51 UTC, John Colvin wrote:
I don't understand what you think is so complicated about it?
After arithmetic operations f is applied
signed:
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 09:37:41 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
It is not that it is complicated, but that signed wraparound is
almost always a bug. In C/C++, that result in very questionable
optimizations. But defining the thing as wraparound is also
preventing it to become an error.
What abou
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 06:00:08 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
It's worth checking how LDC and GDC deal with this deep in
their optimizer - is it considering it undefined behavior?
Signed types will wrap around correctly for LDC.
— David
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 10:20:53 UTC, Don wrote:
Oh, I like that! That does seem to be the best of both worlds.
Then, as a QOI issue, the compiler can try to detect the error.
If it does not detect the error, it MUST provide the two's
complement result. It is not allowed to do any weird
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 09:09:33 UTC, Don wrote:
(Note that unlike the unsigned case, there is no simple
explanation of what happens).
Well, negative overflow for unsigned probably should be illegal
too. Ada got this right by having:
32 bit signed integers monotonic
31 bit unsigned in
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 09:37:41 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 09:33:51 UTC, John Colvin wrote:
I don't understand what you think is so complicated about it?
After arithmetic operations f is applied
signed: f(v) = ((v + 2^(n-1)) mod (2^n - 1)) - 2^(n-1)
Complic
On 11/13/2015 1:10 AM, Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d wrote:
We are not. For gdc, the fwrapv flag is enabled by default.
Good!
On 11/13/2015 1:09 AM, Don wrote:
Please let's be precise about this.
I'd be happy if you contributed the precise wording we need!
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 09:33:51 UTC, John Colvin wrote:
I don't understand what you think is so complicated about it?
It is not that it is complicated, but that signed wraparound is
almost always a bug. In C/C++, that result in very questionable
optimizations. But defining the thing
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 09:09:33 UTC, Don wrote:
At the very least, we should change the terminology on that
page. The word "overflow" should not be used when referring to
both signed and unsigned types. On that page, it is describing
two very different phenomena, and gives the impressio
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 02:50:07 UTC, Daniel Murphy wrote:
You also need to modify root/rmem.d to actually use the GC as
the allocator.
I should have known that it couldn't be that simple. Anyway,
after doing so. Building druntime and phobos die with a segfault,
but all dmd tests pass,
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 09:09:33 UTC, Don wrote:
Suppose we made it an error. We'd be in a much better position
than C. We could easily add a check for integer overflow into
CTFE. We could allow compilers and static analysis tools to
implement runtime checks for integer overflow, as well
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 08:51:27 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
I understood Walter's response to be so.
That's my interpretation of what Walter has said before too. So a
D compiler cannot prevent compilation of a statically detected
wrapping (overflow). As a result D-integers are circular
e
On 13 Nov 2015 7:05 am, "Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d" <
digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/12/2015 4:43 PM, Ali Çehreli wrote:
>>
>> So the question is, do we support twos complement only, hence signed
overflow is
>> defined as wrap,
>
>
> Yes. I see no reason to support 1's compleme
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 05:47:03 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
Signed overflow are defined as well, as wraparound.
Can we please, please, please not have that as official policy
without carefully thinking through the implications?
It is undefined behaviour in C and C++, so we are not constrai
On 11/13/2015 12:30 AM, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:
> On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 06:46:37 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
>> Since it's UB in C and C++, I've heard that both clang and gcc do
>> remove code branches if they can prove that there will be signed
>> overflow. I don't know how or whether tha
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 06:46:37 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
Since it's UB in C and C++, I've heard that both clang and gcc
do remove code branches if they can prove that there will be
signed overflow. I don't know how or whether that optimization
is turned off for D.
The question you want
I know what the problem is. Hence you need to import a in b and
b in a. There is not really anyway around this because this is
intrinsically how mixin works.
It could be all much easier if resolving aliases was controllable
in generic code, most importantly in regards of .stringof
On Friday, 13 November 2015 at 06:46:37 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
Since it's UB in C and C++, I've heard that both clang and gcc
do remove code branches if they can prove that there will be
signed overflow. I don't know how or whether that optimization
is turned off for D.
Ali
Clang does it,
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