Just saw that ACM TechNews [1] linked the C/C#/D InfoWorld article [1]
today.
[1] Still get it after doing GSoC for Semantic MediaWiki the other year...
[2] http://www.infoworld.com/print/172587
// Samuel
On 09/10/2011 07:50 AM, Paulo Pinto wrote:
D just entered into the top 20!
http://www.
On 09/15/2011 01:21 AM, Don wrote:
On 15.09.2011 03:29, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
On 09/14/2011 08:36 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
Well, the problem here is that you mix an argument and its negation
in an illogical way. You simultaneously assume that Tiobe got D's
position wrong at #20 and Scal
On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
> It's not a straw man. The only reason the D was even mentioned on Tiobe was
> because it hit #20. If it was languishing beneath #50 with Scala, which by
> any measure that aren't bullshit Tiobe statistics it should be, then you
> would hav
On 15.09.2011 03:29, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
On 09/14/2011 08:36 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
Well, the problem here is that you mix an argument and its negation
in an illogical way. You simultaneously assume that Tiobe got D's
position wrong at #20 and Scala's position correctly at #50.
Yet
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
> On 09/14/2011 08:36 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>
>> Well, the problem here is that you mix an argument and its negation
>> in an illogical way. You simultaneously assume that Tiobe got D's
>> position wrong at #20 and Scala's position
On 09/14/2011 08:36 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
Well, the problem here is that you mix an argument and its negation
in an illogical way. You simultaneously assume that Tiobe got D's
position wrong at #20 and Scala's position correctly at #50.
Yet you keep on ignoring the obvious reason why
On Wednesday, September 14, 2011 16:48 Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
> On 09/14/2011 05:41 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> > One issue here is that the relative rank of Scala and D on Tiobe has
> > become a straw man. Let's not forget how it started: I posted Tiobe's
> > September newsletter to reddit an
On 9/14/11 6:48 PM, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
On 09/14/2011 05:41 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
One issue here is that the relative rank of Scala and D on Tiobe
has become a straw man. Let's not forget how it started: I posted
Tiobe's September newsletter to reddit and you considered it lame
mark
On 09/15/2011 01:48 AM, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
On 09/14/2011 05:41 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
One issue here is that the relative rank of Scala and D on Tiobe has
become a straw man. Let's not forget how it started: I posted Tiobe's
September newsletter to reddit and you considered it lame
On 09/14/2011 05:41 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
One issue here is that the relative rank of Scala and D on Tiobe has
become a straw man. Let's not forget how it started: I posted Tiobe's
September newsletter to reddit and you considered it lame marketing.
Well I disagree.
It's not a straw m
On 9/14/2011 1:58 PM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
Stack overflow shows 5,606 tagged with "scala", and 430 questions
tagged with "d".
Could that be simply because D is an easier language to use?
Or perhaps they prefer to ask about D here in these n.g. There are hundreds of
thousands of postings here
On 9/14/11 3:52 PM, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
On 09/14/2011 04:27 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
Words like "demonstrated" or "clarified" are a bit exaggerated within
this discussion, as is "flawed" when describing what Tiobe does.
Only if you are delusional
(guess that's strike three)
and c
On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
> > Stack overflow shows 5,606 tagged with "scala", and 430 questions
> > tagged with "d".
>
> Could that be simply because D is an easier language to use?
>
I remember when I started to use D1 for the first time about two years ago.
For most
> Stack overflow shows 5,606 tagged with "scala", and 430 questions
> tagged with "d".
Could that be simply because D is an easier language to use?
On 09/14/2011 04:27 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
Words like "demonstrated" or "clarified" are a bit exaggerated within
this discussion, as is "flawed" when describing what Tiobe does.
Only if you are delusional and can't recognize the fundamental problem
with search results getting worse an
On 09/14/2011 03:27 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
No need to bet, why not look & see?
Because Google these days cuts off your search well before then. When I
did this experiment years ago when D was in the top 20, it went into the
weeds after a few dozen pages. So I suppose D has grown in that it
On 09/14/2011 02:21 PM, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
On 09/14/2011 12:48 PM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
But what makes your statistics more "valid" than Tiobe's? As Walter
said, there are multiple ways to measure popularity, and every one is
guaranteed to dissatisfy some people.
I demonstrated the
On 9/14/2011 12:16 PM, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
I'm willing to bet that there are hardly any pages about D past a few thousand
pages
No need to bet, why not look & see?
On 09/14/2011 12:48 PM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
But what makes your statistics more "valid" than Tiobe's? As Walter
said, there are multiple ways to measure popularity, and every one is
guaranteed to dissatisfy some people.
I demonstrated the fundamental problem with their methodology. The
On 09/14/2011 02:35 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
What would you say about its "C" results?
I'm sure it suffers from the same problem, just based on their methodology.
Also, Tiobe searches for the phrase "D programming", not just the letter
"D".
As I mentioned, there's overlap with graphics pro
On 09/14/2011 11:24 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On 09/14/2011 12:18 PM, Marco Leise wrote:
Am 14.09.2011, 15:02 Uhr, schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu
:
On 9/14/11 6:22 AM, bioinfornatics wrote:
It is a good news. This news appear in same time where fedora add D2
in Fedora 16:
https://fedoraproj
On 9/14/2011 4:29 AM, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
especially when it comes to trying to weed out false positives to the letter
"D".
What would you say about its "C" results?
Also, Tiobe searches for the phrase "D programming", not just the letter "D".
On 9/14/2011 4:23 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
Oh, come on :) There's positive and negative traits to everything. Marketing
touts the positive and ignores the negatives. How is that not misleading?
Volkswagon was famous in the 1960's for advertising that its car was ugly and
small. Curtis M
On 09/14/2011 12:18 PM, Marco Leise wrote:
Am 14.09.2011, 15:02 Uhr, schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu
:
On 9/14/11 6:22 AM, bioinfornatics wrote:
It is a good news. This news appear in same time where fedora add D2
in Fedora 16:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/D2_programming
:-)
next step
Am 14.09.2011, 15:02 Uhr, schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu
:
On 9/14/11 6:22 AM, bioinfornatics wrote:
It is a good news. This news appear in same time where fedora add D2 in
Fedora 16:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/D2_programming
:-)
next step create powerfull free and open source l
Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote:
> I'd say we all lighten up a little. Tiobe is not unequivocally
> meaningless and D registered a good jump lately, which I believe is
> rooted in reality. I was glad about that and posted it on reddit. Tiobe
> is open about its methods and people can draw their concl
On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 11:20:03 -0400, Jeff Nowakowski
wrote:
On 09/14/2011 07:23 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
As interpreted by Mr. Nowakowski, it's misleading to say that D is good
because some objective language popularity measurement shows D is
gaining ground.
Tiobe is not objective.
On 09/14/2011 07:23 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
As interpreted by Mr. Nowakowski, it's misleading to say that D is good
because some objective language popularity measurement shows D is
gaining ground.
Tiobe is not objective. There is a "manually determined confidence
factor", and also so
On 9/14/11 6:32 AM, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
On 09/14/2011 07:13 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
But the whole idea that posting a positive view of a language/product is
"misleading" strikes me as hilarious. That's all I was saying.
Actually, Andrei has in the past made some noise in regards to
On 9/14/11 6:22 AM, bioinfornatics wrote:
It is a good news. This news appear in same time where fedora add D2 in Fedora
16:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/D2_programming
:-)
next step create powerfull free and open source library, more documentation and
tutorial on the web
I wonder
On 09/14/2011 07:13 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
But the whole idea that posting a positive view of a language/product is
"misleading" strikes me as hilarious. That's all I was saying.
Actually, Andrei has in the past made some noise in regards to other
languages and presentations about ch
On 09/13/2011 05:18 PM, Jimmy Cao wrote:
I trust Tiobe.
Tiobe has recently been correct about Objective-C and C#, in regard to their
popularity increase. Why would it not be correct about D'?
Because Tiobe doesn't do a good job across the board. I posted some hard
stats on D, ranked 20, vs. S
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 15:47:39 -0400, Walter Bright
wrote:
On 9/13/2011 8:07 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
Since when is marketing *ever* not misleading?
I don't think that's quite a fair statement. Good marketing informs a
customer about a product that may be just the thing for his need
It is a good news. This news appear in same time where fedora add D2 in Fedora
16:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/D2_programming
:-)
next step create powerfull free and open source library, more documentation and
tutorial on the web
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 16:07:31 -0400, Sean Kelly
wrote:
On Sep 13, 2011, at 8:07 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 20:11:57 -0400, Jeff Nowakowski
wrote:
On 09/12/2011 07:06 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
If you were in my position, wouldn't you have posted that
artic
On 9/12/11 5:51 PM, dsimcha wrote:
Besides 4724,
the other one that really irks me and severely limits the usability of
std.parallelism is http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=5710 .
Basically, it is a huge PITA for all designs that resemble std.algorithm
(e.g. also my Thrift client p
I trust Tiobe.
Tiobe has recently been correct about Objective-C and C#, in regard to their
popularity increase. Why would it not be correct about D'?
On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Sean Kelly wrote:
> On Sep 13, 2011, at 8:07 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 20:11:57
On Sep 13, 2011, at 8:07 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 20:11:57 -0400, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
>
>> On 09/12/2011 07:06 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>>
>>> If you were in my position, wouldn't you have posted that
>>> article?
>>
>> I hope I wouldn't have published it
On 9/13/2011 8:07 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
Since when is marketing *ever* not misleading?
I don't think that's quite a fair statement. Good marketing informs a customer
about a product that may be just the thing for his needs. With any product,
there are different ways to view it, posi
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 20:11:57 -0400, Jeff Nowakowski
wrote:
On 09/12/2011 07:06 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
If you were in my position, wouldn't you have posted that
article?
I hope I wouldn't have published it, since I don't like misleading
marketing.
Since when is marketing *ever*
On 9/12/2011 11:38 AM, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
Lame marketing, Andrei. But hey, it works, right?
I think D is doing spectacularly well considering that there is $0 spent on
marketing it.
On 09/12/2011 07:11 PM, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
On 09/12/2011 07:06 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
If you were in my position, wouldn't you have posted that
article?
I hope I wouldn't have published it, since I don't like misleading
marketing.
BTW, apparently others comment on the news, too.
On 09/12/2011 07:06 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
If you were in my position, wouldn't you have posted that
article?
I hope I wouldn't have published it, since I don't like misleading
marketing.
BTW, apparently others comment on the news, too.
http://www.infoworld.com/d/application-develo
On 09/12/2011 05:48 PM, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
On 09/12/2011 04:25 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
I have no connection with Tiobe and the name "D" wasn't chosen to
manipulate its ranking method. Are you disagreeing with my posting of a
piece of information on a community-voted forum? I wouldn't
On 09/12/2011 04:25 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
I have no connection with Tiobe and the name "D" wasn't chosen to
manipulate its ranking method. Are you disagreeing with my posting of a
piece of information on a community-voted forum? I wouldn't quite
understand what the matter is here, if it
On 09/12/2011 01:38 PM, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
On 09/12/2011 11:43 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
Accuracy (i.e. figuring the "right" ranking) is probably indeed low, but
Tiobe's methods are a reasonable proxy for a language's presence. I see
the increase of D's Tiobe rank not as a surprise or
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
> On 09/12/2011 11:43 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>
>>
>> Accuracy (i.e. figuring the "right" ranking) is probably indeed low, but
>> Tiobe's methods are a reasonable proxy for a language's presence. I see
>> the increase of D's Tiobe ran
On 09/12/2011 11:43 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
Accuracy (i.e. figuring the "right" ranking) is probably indeed low, but
Tiobe's methods are a reasonable proxy for a language's presence. I see
the increase of D's Tiobe rank not as a surprise or some random
artifact, but a reflection of the st
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 18:57:16 +0200, bearophile
wrote:
Timon Gehr:
You lose vs haskell because haskell does not recompute the same PowerSet
multiple times.
Are you sure? I have tried with memoization, but now it's slower (about
5.8 seconds).
Note: to use memoize I have had to add the o
On 09/12/2011 06:57 PM, bearophile wrote:
Timon Gehr:
You lose vs haskell because haskell does not recompute the same PowerSet
multiple times.
Are you sure? I have tried with memoization, but now it's slower (about 5.8
seconds).
Note: to use memoize I have had to add the opCall. Is this rea
Timon Gehr:
> You lose vs haskell because haskell does not recompute the same PowerSet
> multiple times.
Are you sure? I have tried with memoization, but now it's slower (about 5.8
seconds).
Note: to use memoize I have had to add the opCall. Is this really necessary for
memoization of a struc
Agreed Andrei,
As you may have noticed, I've been visiting D at maybe 6 month intervals for
some
time.
Suddenly it seems real. There are alternative implementations, the library
looks
like something quite comprehensive, and we're more or less back to there being
one
version. Like I said - "I
On 12.09.2011 17:43, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On 9/12/11 10:19 AM, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
On 09/11/2011 10:28 PM, Caligo wrote:
I don't understand why some would down vote such a news. a lot of
haters out
there I suppose.
Probably because Tiobe is a piece of shit when it comes to accuracy,
== Quote from Andrei Alexandrescu (seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org)'s article
> On 9/12/11 7:28 AM, Timon Gehr wrote:
> > This eager D version uncovered a DMD bug:
> >
> > import std.stdio, std.algorithm, std.range;
> > T[][] powerset(T)(T[] xs){
> > T[][] r=new T[][](1< > foreach(i,ref x;r) x=array(
On 9/12/11 10:19 AM, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
On 09/11/2011 10:28 PM, Caligo wrote:
I don't understand why some would down vote such a news. a lot of
haters out
there I suppose.
Probably because Tiobe is a piece of shit when it comes to accuracy, so
crowing about your "top 20" Tiobe number bring
On 9/12/11 7:28 AM, Timon Gehr wrote:
This eager D version uncovered a DMD bug:
import std.stdio, std.algorithm, std.range;
T[][] powerset(T)(T[] xs){
T[][] r=new T[][](1<
goto bugzilla;
Andrei
On 09/11/2011 10:28 PM, Caligo wrote:
I don't understand why some would down vote such a news. a lot of haters out
there I suppose.
Probably because Tiobe is a piece of shit when it comes to accuracy, so
crowing about your "top 20" Tiobe number brings out the hate for lame
marketing.
On 09/12/2011 01:36 PM, bearophile wrote:
It seems people (Andrei too) are slowly adding more comments in that Reddit
thread.
A sub-thread:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/kaxjq/the_d_programming_language_is_back_in_tiobes_top/c2iycwb
It starts with this question:
How would you w
On 09/12/2011 01:36 PM, bearophile wrote:
A more complex version that does't yield distinct sub-arrays to allocate less
memory:
import std.stdio, std.array, std.range;
struct PowerSet(T) {
T[] items;
int opApply(int delegate(ref T[]) dg) {
int result;
T[] res;
On 09/12/2011 01:36 PM, bearophile wrote:
It seems people (Andrei too) are slowly adding more comments in that Reddit
thread.
A sub-thread:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/kaxjq/the_d_programming_language_is_back_in_tiobes_top/c2iycwb
It starts with this question:
How would you w
It seems people (Andrei too) are slowly adding more comments in that Reddit
thread.
A sub-thread:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/kaxjq/the_d_programming_language_is_back_in_tiobes_top/c2iycwb
It starts with this question:
> How would you write this kind of Python in D?
>
> from st
bearophile Wrote:
> I think most managers only see the top 11 of that list I am seeing now (some
> managers probably see some language below too, like Delphi, Ada, Scala, etc,
> but they are uncommon).
DevExpress enterprise-quality visual controls library started as a Delphi
project and they s
I don't understand why some would down vote such a news. a lot of haters out
there I suppose.
Weird, the september headline is gone now, and it's showing august headline
again.
Paulo Pinto:
> I know that TIOBE's value is relative,
Well, its value is minimal.
> but this is the type of charts
> that managers usually understand.
I think most managers only see the top 11 of that list I am seeing now (some
managers probably see some language below too, like Delphi, Ada,
On 9/10/11 1:44 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On 9/10/11 12:50 AM, Paulo Pinto wrote:
D just entered into the top 20!
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
I know that TIOBE's value is relative, but this is the type of charts
that managers usually understand.
Now
On 9/10/11 12:50 AM, Paulo Pinto wrote:
D just entered into the top 20!
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
I know that TIOBE's value is relative, but this is the type of charts
that managers usually understand.
Now on reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/c
D will probably get even more attention once GCC 4.7 Stage 3 begins in a few
months (assuming D is going to be part of GCC).
>From the Article
> Wikipedia gives a hint about the comeback of D: "The release of Andrei
> Alexandrescu's book 'The D Programming Language' on June 12, 2010 marked the
> stabilization of D 2.0." In the charts we can see that the D language is
> gradually rising again since that date.
Sh
D just entered into the top 20!
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
I know that TIOBE's value is relative, but this is the type of charts
that managers usually understand.
--
Paulo
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