Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-30 Thread Jordan Miner
On Saturday, 28 January 2012 at 21:39:32 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On 1/28/12, Jordan Miner jmin...@gmail.com wrote: But I hope that D will support Windows 2000 for a while. Aren't you already blocked with Win2000 support? http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=6024 I've been using

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-28 Thread Kagamin
On Friday, 27 January 2012 at 21:52:39 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: So, Win2K+, which is probably what we'll be doing. It should be noted, however, that that's a .NET 2.0 application And it works on a good range of oses and does useful and pretty nifty things. And, you know, it will take ages

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-28 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Andrew Wiley wiley.andre...@gmail.com wrote in message news:mailman.92.1327720688.25230.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Andrew Wiley wiley.andre...@gmail.com wrote in message

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-28 Thread Andrew Wiley
On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 5:13 AM, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Hmm, maybe I'll give it a try then next time I need a new one. Leeme see if I have the names of these wireless ones right: 1. First there was Wireless Trackman and it sucked. 2. Then there was TrackMan Silver (which was a little

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-28 Thread Jordan Miner
I feel that libraries and especially compilers should support older systems. I don't like when a library or compiler limits what system my program can run on. I'm writing a GUI library in D, and I plan on supporting Windows 2000. In this case, I don't mind dropping 95/98/Me support. They

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-28 Thread Andrej Mitrovic
On 1/28/12, Jordan Miner jmin...@gmail.com wrote: But I hope that D will support Windows 2000 for a while. Aren't you already blocked with Win2000 support? http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=6024

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-27 Thread Steven Schveighoffer
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:41:31 -0500, Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote: On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:20:38 -0500, David Nadlinger s...@klickverbot.at wrote: On 1/26/12 4:06 PM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: […]And the backspace key is labeled delete, and I still don't know how to do

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-27 Thread Iain Buclaw
On 27 January 2012 05:53, Andrew Wiley wiley.andre...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Sean Kelly s...@invisibleduck.org wrote in message news:mailman.49.1327595627.25230.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... The command key has a long history in the Unix

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-27 Thread Andrew Wiley
On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Iain Buclaw ibuc...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 27 January 2012 05:53, Andrew Wiley wiley.andre...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Sean Kelly s...@invisibleduck.org wrote in message

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-27 Thread David Nadlinger
On 1/26/12 5:29 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/26/12 10:41 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:20:38 -0500, David Nadlinger s...@klickverbot.at wrote: Fn + Backspace, on my Macbook Pro. Thank you :) I will try it next time I use my macbook pro. And I forgot about that

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-27 Thread Kagamin
On Monday, 23 January 2012 at 00:24:39 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: So, I really think that we should say that we don't support pre-Win2K, and I'd like to say that we don't support pre-XP, but I don't think that it hurts us any to say that we support Win2K. An example of system requirements

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-27 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Friday, January 27, 2012 20:46:17 Kagamin wrote: On Monday, 23 January 2012 at 00:24:39 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: So, I really think that we should say that we don't support pre-Win2K, and I'd like to say that we don't support pre-XP, but I don't think that it hurts us any to say

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-27 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Andrew Wiley wiley.andre...@gmail.com wrote in message news:mailman.76.1327644483.25230.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 6:59 AM, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Andrew Wiley wiley.andre...@gmail.com wrote in message

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-27 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Friday, January 27, 2012 18:08:43 Nick Sabalausky wrote: Ewww. Bad move on their part. I got one of the wireless ones one time and returned it the next day. It was terrible. Physically it was the same, but it was painfully less smooth and less responsive (and inconsistently so) than every

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-27 Thread Era Scarecrow
YES, I'm not the only person alive using a trackball! Thumb-ball, marble, or one of those giant pool-ball things? http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Trackman-Wheel-Optical-Silver/dp/B5NIMJ (I don't know why the price there is so high, though. They're only around $35-ish in stores.)

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-27 Thread Andrew Wiley
On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Andrew Wiley wiley.andre...@gmail.com wrote in message news:mailman.76.1327644483.25230.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 6:59 AM, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Andrew Wiley wiley.andre...@gmail.com wrote in

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Mirko Pilger
YES, I'm not the only person alive using a trackball! Thumb-ball, marble, or one of those giant pool-ball things? you both are not alone. i'm also a trackball user for 11 years now. atm i have a logitech trackman on my desk but owned one of those billiard balls in the past, too.

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Andrew Wiley wiley.andre...@gmail.com wrote in message news:mailman.40.1327562674.25230.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 3:31 PM, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:op.v8nbixzyeav7ka@localhost.localdomain... I must

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Steven Schveighoffer
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 17:16:19 -0500, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: But how is just the basic moving the pointer compared to other touchpads? It's similar. The only thing is, the click is actually a physical button (the whole pad is a button). On a normal touchpad, you can click by

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread David Nadlinger
On 1/26/12 4:06 PM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: […]And the backspace key is labeled delete, and I still don't know how to do what a normal delete key would do (delete the character that follows the cursor) can someone tell me? Fn + Backspace, on my Macbook Pro. David

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Steven Schveighoffer
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:20:38 -0500, David Nadlinger s...@klickverbot.at wrote: On 1/26/12 4:06 PM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: […]And the backspace key is labeled delete, and I still don't know how to do what a normal delete key would do (delete the character that follows the cursor) can

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
On 1/26/12 10:41 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:20:38 -0500, David Nadlinger s...@klickverbot.at wrote: On 1/26/12 4:06 PM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: […]And the backspace key is labeled delete, and I still don't know how to do what a normal delete key would do

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Sean Kelly
My only gripe about the trackpad is that it's impossible to drag with the right button down. Beyond that, I actually like the control key setup on OSX, even if it isn't as comprehensive as Windows. The command key has a long history in the Unix world anyway. It's much better than the Windows

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-26 Thread Martin Nowak
We need a decision on this topic. Actively maintaining support for new features? Cleaning out Win9x code?

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-26 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Thursday, January 26, 2012 19:21:53 Martin Nowak wrote: We need a decision on this topic. Actively maintaining support for new features? Cleaning out Win9x code? There doesn't seem to be much support for continuing support of Win9x code, so I think that we're going to axe it. I

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Don
On 26.01.2012 00:36, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/25/2012 2:27 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: How about these? http://images.google.com/search?q=downloadtbm=ischtbs=isz:i You're in a maze of twisty passages, all different. The first ones look as though they're showing you where the secret

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:op.v8o5k6h4eav7ka@localhost.localdomain... If you can bring yourself to stomach the apple store atmosphere, Heh :) I encourage you to visit one and try it out. It's definitely different than any other interface I've ever

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Sean Kelly s...@invisibleduck.org wrote in message news:mailman.49.1327595627.25230.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... The command key has a long history in the Unix world anyway. It's much better than the Windows key that just does one thing, and something I've never actually wanted to do. Sent

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Steven Schveighoffer
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 17:31:34 -0500, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Sean Kelly s...@invisibleduck.org wrote in message news:mailman.49.1327595627.25230.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... The command key has a long history in the Unix world anyway. It's much better than the Windows key that just does

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Sean Kelly
On Jan 26, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote: The Apple key is treated like the control key - You just have to remember that when you'd normally go for Control, on the Mac you'd do Apple instead. I don't remember what the hell the Mac's Control key is for. My Option key actually

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Stewart Gordon
On 26/01/2012 15:41, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:20:38 -0500, David Nadlinger s...@klickverbot.at wrote: On 1/26/12 4:06 PM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: […]And the backspace key is labeled delete, and I still don't know how to do what a normal delete key would do

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Sean Kelly s...@invisibleduck.org wrote in message news:mailman.70.1327626159.25230.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... On Jan 26, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote: The Apple key is treated like the control key - You just have to remember that when you'd normally go for Control, on the Mac

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Stewart Gordon
On 27/01/2012 01:36, Nick Sabalausky wrote: snip Heh, yea. That's something thing I always found funny: Apple always used to prepackage one-button mice with their right-click-capable OSX machines because one-button mice are simpler and easier. But I never understood how control-click qualified

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Stewart Gordon smjg_1...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:jfsuc5$12pl$1...@digitalmars.com... Who decides what constitutes a normal delete key? That's normal as in 95% of the PCs in the past 20 years. ;) (And macs *are* personal computers, contrary to the ads.) FWIW though, any mention of

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Stewart Gordon smjg_1...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:jfsvfh$14ek$1...@digitalmars.com... On 27/01/2012 01:36, Nick Sabalausky wrote: snip Heh, yea. That's something thing I always found funny: Apple always used to prepackage one-button mice with their right-click-capable OSX machines

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote in message news:jft09p$160q$1...@digitalmars.com... Stewart Gordon smjg_1...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:jfsuc5$12pl$1...@digitalmars.com... I've been reminded of the iMac G3 that I was made to use for some of my time as a PhD student. Just the backspace

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Era Scarecrow
Heh, yea. That's something thing I always found funny: Apple always used to prepackage one-button mice with their right-click-capable OSX machines because one-button mice are simpler and easier. But I never understood how control-click qualified as simpler or easier than right-click.

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Daniel Murphy
I do Win-R all the time. Win-D is nice, too, although I tend to forget about it. Win-L is lock screen or return to welcome screen if you have that enabled. That's a useful one. Don't forget Win-E for my computer, Win-F for find and Win-Pause to open system properties. Although since

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Sean Kelly
I think if you design an interface where the input device has only one button as opposed to multiple buttons, etc, one could argue that the result will be easier to learn. I know I always had trouble explaining the use of the right mouse button in Windows to my parents. On Jan 26, 2012, at

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Andrew Wiley
On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Sean Kelly s...@invisibleduck.org wrote in message news:mailman.49.1327595627.25230.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... The command key has a long history in the Unix world anyway. It's much better than the Windows key that just does one

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-26 Thread Andrew Wiley
On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 6:59 AM, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Andrew Wiley wiley.andre...@gmail.com wrote in message news:mailman.40.1327562674.25230.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 3:31 PM, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote in

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-25 Thread Derek
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 11:08:40 +1100, Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote: Me too :) We have a TV in the bedroom where the light was so bright, my wife couldn't sleep. So I taped over it. My new TV has a much dimmer light, but it's still there. You can configure the light to

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-25 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:op.v8melay5eav7ka@localhost.localdomain... I read that post. I don't think you used it enough. The swiping *is not* the only interface to the photos. You can scroll rapidly through a list of albums (using swiping, but it has

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-25 Thread Steven Schveighoffer
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 03:43:15 -0500, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:op.v8melay5eav7ka@localhost.localdomain... I read that post. I don't think you used it enough. The swiping *is not* the only interface to the photos. You can

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-25 Thread Stewart Gordon
On 24/01/2012 00:13, Walter Bright wrote: snip Copyrights expire after 20 years. Renewable for another 20 years for a fee of $1000/year per registered copyright. So your idea is to make it harder for people to keep their works copyrighted? Under your plan, what will happen to copyrighted

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-25 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:op.v8l5cqtfeav7ka@localhost.localdomain... I just stayed in a hotel this past weekend, where the bedside lamp had those same O and | symbols. When I wanted to turn the light on or off, do you really think I spent a single

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-25 Thread Walter Bright
On 1/24/2012 6:18 PM, Stewart Gordon wrote: On 24/01/2012 00:13, Walter Bright wrote: snip Copyrights expire after 20 years. Renewable for another 20 years for a fee of $1000/year per registered copyright. So your idea is to make it harder for people to keep their works copyrighted? After

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-25 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Stewart Gordon smjg_1...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:jfnoph$p5c$1...@digitalmars.com... On 24/01/2012 00:13, Walter Bright wrote: snip Copyrights expire after 20 years. Renewable for another 20 years for a fee of $1000/year per registered copyright. I can't answer for Walter. But, for

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-25 Thread Steven Schveighoffer
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:46:05 -0500, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:op.v8l5cqtfeav7ka@localhost.localdomain... You may hate to hear it, but the company that usually gets this right is Apple :) My palm phone had an LED that

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-25 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:op.v8nbixzyeav7ka@localhost.localdomain... I must rave about the trackpad on the macbook pro. The interface is so damned good, I hate going back to my linux laptop (which I must do for work). A good trackpad?!? That seems

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-25 Thread Steven Schveighoffer
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 16:31:14 -0500, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:op.v8nbixzyeav7ka@localhost.localdomain... I must rave about the trackpad on the macbook pro. The interface is so damned good, I hate going back to my linux laptop

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-25 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:op.v8nti0dheav7ka@localhost.localdomain... On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 16:31:14 -0500, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:op.v8nbixzyeav7ka@localhost.localdomain... I must rave

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-25 Thread Vladimir Panteleev
On Monday, 23 January 2012 at 18:17:45 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/23/2012 6:42 AM, Don Clugston wrote: And all those apps made with some Borland toolkit, where 'exit' is an icon of a door, with an arrow in it. Makes me feel like I'm playing Pictionary. At a previous job, we got new desk

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-25 Thread Walter Bright
On 1/25/2012 2:27 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: How about these? http://images.google.com/search?q=downloadtbm=ischtbs=isz:i You're in a maze of twisty passages, all different.

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-25 Thread Andrew Wiley
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 3:31 PM, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:op.v8nbixzyeav7ka@localhost.localdomain... I must rave about the trackpad on the macbook pro.  The interface is so damned good, I hate going back to my linux laptop

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-24 Thread Kagamin
On Monday, 23 January 2012 at 20:38:21 UTC, Kiith-Sa wrote: VDPAU doesn't work with the OSS drivers at the moment - you need the binary driver for that. I was wrong. Seems like the driver installation was so transparent, I barely noticed anything, at least, bumblebee did it for me. Though

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-24 Thread foobar
On Tuesday, 24 January 2012 at 07:09:47 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: foobar f...@bar.com wrote in message news:gaeafbliswzwkmitp...@dfeed.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net... IP can't be evil, it's the basic protocol of the internet ;) seriously though, the term IP is highly misleading and doesn't

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-24 Thread Marco Leise
Am 24.01.2012, 13:26 Uhr, schrieb foobar f...@bar.com: On Tuesday, 24 January 2012 at 07:09:47 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: foobar f...@bar.com wrote in message news:gaeafbliswzwkmitp...@dfeed.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net... IP can't be evil, it's the basic protocol of the internet ;)

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-24 Thread Denis Shelomovskij
24.01.2012 2:32, Nick Sabalausky пишет: Andrei Alexandrescuseewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote in message news:jfk1r6$2a5j$1...@digitalmars.com... On 1/23/12 3:14 AM, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Walter Brightnewshou...@digitalmars.com wrote in message news:jfj0ao$3q9$1...@digitalmars.com...

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-24 Thread foobar
On Tuesday, 24 January 2012 at 13:00:13 UTC, Marco Leise wrote: Am 24.01.2012, 13:26 Uhr, schrieb foobar f...@bar.com: On Tuesday, 24 January 2012 at 07:09:47 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: foobar f...@bar.com wrote in message news:gaeafbliswzwkmitp...@dfeed.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net... IP

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-24 Thread Denis Shelomovskij
22.01.2012 23:55, Denis Shelomovskij пишет: In this thread I would like a reason of trying to support Win95/98/Me to be discussed. Get rid of win9x support pull requests: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/druntime/pull/140 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/pull/406 Diff

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-24 Thread Steven Schveighoffer
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:59:46 -0500, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote in message Ever since the industry helpfully stopped labeling switches with on and off my usual technique is to flip it back and forth until it goes on. Is it really progress

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-24 Thread Nick Sabalausky
foobar f...@bar.com wrote in message news:teutlxbmxkyzvyrqg...@dfeed.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net... There is this phenomena in the US where some people feel that they have the right to be ignorant but they ought to realize that this isn't a core human right and it slowly degrades society in

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-24 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:op.v8l0jzrdeav7ka@localhost.localdomain... On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:59:46 -0500, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote in message Ever since the industry helpfully stopped labeling switches

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-24 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote in message news:jfnf2r$913$1...@digitalmars.com... Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:op.v8l0jzrdeav7ka@localhost.localdomain... On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:59:46 -0500, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: This has nothing to do with it. They

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-24 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:op.v8l0jzrdeav7ka@localhost.localdomain... a) you usually want something on or off. If it's already in the desired state, you can usually tell without looking at the switch. b) It's far more mentally taxing to read/understand

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-24 Thread Walter Bright
On 1/24/2012 3:30 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote: I *HATE* those off lights. I've started to just tape over the fucking things with black electrical tape. Back in 1971 or so, a book came out that was the complete idiot's guide to repairing a Volkswagon. The best advice in there was to someone that

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-24 Thread Steven Schveighoffer
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 18:30:45 -0500, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote in message news:op.v8l0jzrdeav7ka@localhost.localdomain... On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:59:46 -0500, Nick Sabalausky a@a.a wrote: Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote in

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-24 Thread foobar
On Tuesday, 24 January 2012 at 23:17:15 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: foobar f...@bar.com wrote in message news:teutlxbmxkyzvyrqg...@dfeed.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net... There is this phenomena in the US where some people feel that they have the right to be ignorant but they ought to realize

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-23 Thread Jonathan M Davis
Well, regardless of whether we want to templatize anything in std.file or turn it into a .di file or anything else we might want to do to, I think that useWfuncs and the corresponding support for Win9x should be dropped. - Jonathan M Davis

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-23 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote in message news:jfj0ao$3q9$1...@digitalmars.com... Another way of looking at it is Phobos should provide snap-together building blocks, not trivial combinations of them. So whenever there's trivia to be done, it should be cluttering up the

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-23 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote in message news:jfj38h$8n8$1...@digitalmars.com... On 1/22/2012 10:30 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Hah! I just found the *perfect* article about this and other similar matters: Hilarious! It reminds me of back in 1984 or 85 or so, a Mac

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-23 Thread Walter Bright
On 1/23/2012 1:14 AM, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Walter Brightnewshou...@digitalmars.com wrote in message news:jfj0ao$3q9$1...@digitalmars.com... Another way of looking at it is Phobos should provide snap-together building blocks, not trivial combinations of them. So whenever there's trivia to

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-23 Thread Kagamin
On Monday, 23 January 2012 at 05:30:48 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: can they? Talk about digging one's own grave. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if Vista and Win7 (and Win8) have not only caused people to stick with XP, but also caused a lot of Win-Lin converts - I'm getting closer and closer to

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-23 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote in message news:jfjclq$slu$1...@digitalmars.com... On 1/23/2012 1:14 AM, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Walter Brightnewshou...@digitalmars.com wrote in message news:jfj0ao$3q9$1...@digitalmars.com... Another way of looking at it is Phobos should

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-23 Thread Walter Bright
On 1/23/2012 2:22 AM, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Although I disagree with phonetic being *necessarily* better than ideographic. I do agree with the benefits of phonetic you describe - essentially easier to learn. But the benefit of ideographic is that they can be quicker and easier to use *after*

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-23 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Kagamin s...@here.lot wrote in message news:wqjqzbckwmahpotnf...@dfeed.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net... On Monday, 23 January 2012 at 05:30:48 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: can they? Talk about digging one's own grave. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if Vista and Win7 (and Win8) have not only caused

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-23 Thread Kagamin
On Monday, 23 January 2012 at 11:15:02 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Those are newbie Linuxes that, by default, use GUIs[1] which are known to be insanely bloated. Huh? More bloated than Aero? Yea, stuff that isn't 100%-OSS can be a PITA with Ubuntu :( But I guess it's pretty bad though if

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-23 Thread Bernard Helyer
On Monday, 23 January 2012 at 11:15:02 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: [1] I don't even know what the fuck to call any of them anymore. Window manager, Desktop Environment, Shell, Compositor, and if I'm not mistaken there's even some damn hybrids or some such, and some can be used together, some

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-23 Thread foobar
On Monday, 23 January 2012 at 10:54:15 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/23/2012 2:22 AM, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Although I disagree with phonetic being *necessarily* better than ideographic. I do agree with the benefits of phonetic you describe - essentially easier to learn. But the benefit of

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-23 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote in message news:jfje8n$vka$1...@digitalmars.com... On 1/23/2012 2:22 AM, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Although I disagree with phonetic being *necessarily* better than ideographic. I do agree with the benefits of phonetic you describe - essentially

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-23 Thread Kiith-Sa
On Monday, 23 January 2012 at 11:42:16 UTC, Kagamin wrote: On Monday, 23 January 2012 at 11:15:02 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Those are newbie Linuxes that, by default, use GUIs[1] which are known to be insanely bloated. Huh? More bloated than Aero? Yea, stuff that isn't 100%-OSS can be a

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-23 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Kagamin s...@here.lot wrote in message news:frjurfeotljhdadmb...@dfeed.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net... On Monday, 23 January 2012 at 11:15:02 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Those are newbie Linuxes that, by default, use GUIs[1] which are known to be insanely bloated. Huh? More bloated than Aero?

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-23 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Bernard Helyer b.hel...@gmail.com wrote in message news:evddvsmtlbhryrigg...@dfeed.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net... On Monday, 23 January 2012 at 11:15:02 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: [1] I don't even know what the fuck to call any of them anymore. Window manager, Desktop Environment, Shell,

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-23 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Kiith-Sa 4...@theanswer.com wrote in message news:dmyzlmuizdyseypvh...@dfeed.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net... That said, it is true that some Linux vendors have gone crazy trying to reinvent the GUI. Gnome3 and Unity (Ubuntu) are both tabletized (Win8 is also going in similar direction) and

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-23 Thread Kiith-Sa
Disable akonadi: alt+f2, start typing akonadi, akonadi configuration menu will appear, click it, go to akonadi server configuration tab, press stop at the bottom right. Also uncheck Use internal MYsQL server. Notification will show that akonadi has been stopped. Disable Semantic Desktop:

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-23 Thread Don Clugston
On 23/01/12 11:54, Walter Bright wrote: Bring up Adobe's pdf viewer. It has a whole row of icons across the top. I defy you to tell me what they do without hovering over each. Nobody has ever figured out a picture that intuitively means save, send or print. Some icons do have meaningful

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-23 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
On 1/23/12 3:14 AM, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Walter Brightnewshou...@digitalmars.com wrote in message news:jfj0ao$3q9$1...@digitalmars.com... Another way of looking at it is Phobos should provide snap-together building blocks, not trivial combinations of them. So whenever there's trivia to be

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-23 Thread Kagamin
On Monday, 23 January 2012 at 12:31:28 UTC, Kiith-Sa wrote: You click a Additional Drivers button, that will just pop up as a notification if you have an AMD or NVidia GPU. Then you click at the driver you want to install, and click Activate. And maybe Ok or Close after that.That is the way it

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-23 Thread Walter Bright
On 1/23/2012 3:51 AM, foobar wrote: A few additional points: # Microsoft allegedly does a lot of usability research and they came up with the upcoming Metro design which relies on text instead of icons. # Regarding the English language - Icons are supposed to be universal so it saves money for

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-23 Thread Walter Bright
On 1/23/2012 3:59 AM, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Back to Thunderbird email. The icon for Spell is ABC over a check mark. That is not smaller or more intuitive than Spell. No, not initially, but once you do know it, it's much easier to identify at a glance. I picked that deliberately because the

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-23 Thread Walter Bright
On 1/23/2012 6:42 AM, Don Clugston wrote: And all those apps made with some Borland toolkit, where 'exit' is an icon of a door, with an arrow in it. Makes me feel like I'm playing Pictionary. At a previous job, we got new desk telephones. They had 8 function keys, each with an icon which was

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-23 Thread Kiith-Sa
Dunno, Driver manager (or something like that) showed me an empty list saying I don't have proprietary drivers installed. Don't know how to find prepackaged drivers. Missed it in both Mint and Ubuntu. Well, the complicated thing is that my notebook is new and it has latest hardware: support

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-23 Thread Stewart Gordon
On 23/01/2012 00:23, Jonathan M Davis wrote: snip Except that druntime and Phobos use those APIs. So, it matters. And since the number of people using pre-Win2K is extremely low, I see that as a complete non-issue. In the cases where this is unavoidable, it can be dealt with by documenting

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-23 Thread Todd VanderVeen
Microsoft ended mainstream (i.e. free) support for XP nearly 3 years ago. http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?ln=en-gbc2=1173 I would not make supporting an OS no longer supported by its vendor a priority, particularly in light of the considerable efforts still needed elsewhere.

Re: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?

2012-01-23 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote in message news:jfk1r6$2a5j$1...@digitalmars.com... On 1/23/12 3:14 AM, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Walter Brightnewshou...@digitalmars.com wrote in message news:jfj0ao$3q9$1...@digitalmars.com... Another way of looking at it is Phobos

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-23 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote in message news:jfk7t3$2l8v$2...@digitalmars.com... On 1/23/2012 3:51 AM, foobar wrote: A few additional points: # Microsoft allegedly does a lot of usability research and they came up with the upcoming Metro design which relies on text instead

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-23 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote in message news:jfk81o$2l8v$3...@digitalmars.com... On 1/23/2012 3:59 AM, Nick Sabalausky wrote: Back to Thunderbird email. The icon for Spell is ABC over a check mark. That is not smaller or more intuitive than Spell. No, not initially, but

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-23 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Monday, January 23, 2012 17:37:59 Nick Sabalausky wrote: IP is evil. That's what I love about China: Not much respect for IP. Thanks to China's disregard for such things, I have an adaptor that lets me use the fantastic DualShock2 on Xbox1, GC or PC. That would *never* happen in the US or

Re: [OT] The Condescending UI (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

2012-01-23 Thread Nick Sabalausky
Jonathan M Davis jmdavisp...@gmx.com wrote in message news:mailman.754.1327359014.16222.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... On Monday, January 23, 2012 17:37:59 Nick Sabalausky wrote: IP is evil. That's what I love about China: Not much respect for IP. Thanks to China's disregard for such things,

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