Another go at the Next Big Language

2012-09-03 Thread Michal Minich
http://dave.cheney.net/2012/09/03/another-go-at-the-next-big-language Hacker news discussion http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4468731 Reddit http://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/z9ltl/another_go_at_the_next_big_language/

Re: Another go at the Next Big Language

2012-09-03 Thread bearophile
Michal Minich: http://dave.cheney.net/2012/09/03/another-go-at-the-next-big-language Hacker news discussion http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4468731 Reddit http://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/z9ltl/another_go_at_the_next_big_language/ An interesting quotation from the various threads

Re: The Next Big Language [OT]

2010-11-17 Thread Bruno Medeiros
On 18/10/2010 19:45, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:36:57 -0400, Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote: ...bury the hatch and... Sorry, I can't let this one pass... bury the *hatchet* :) This isn't Lost. -Steve LOOOL Oh man, I miss that

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-11-02 Thread Ali Çehreli
Walter Bright wrote: Bearophile, how about it? Or at a bear (!) minimum, how about writing a series of articles? I promise to translate them to Turkish promptly. :) Ali

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-11-02 Thread Ali Çehreli
Andrej Mitrovic wrote: there really aren't any beginner books/tutorials that I know of that target D2 yet (maybe one of those published Japanese/Turkish ones do target newbies..?). Thanks for the recognition. :) The Turkish tutorial targets the novice and attempts to teach programming with

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-22 Thread Paulo Pinto
Sorry but all of them are just names for the same thing. The template metaprogramming that is possibile in C++ is actually due to some loopholes in the language definition. In the old days there were some articles in the C++ Report when this technique was discovered. D does provide a better

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-22 Thread Lutger
Gary Whatmore wrote: What's the difference between: type polymorphism parametric polymorphism ad-hoc polymorphism generics c++ templates d style templates other templates (are there?) Does Java and C# have type polymorphism or generics or templates? What's the real name and how to

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-22 Thread Lutger
retard wrote: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:00:11 -0400, Gary Whatmore wrote: What's the difference between: type polymorphism parametric polymorphism ad-hoc polymorphism generics c++ templates d style templates other templates (are there?) Does Java and C# have type polymorphism or

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-22 Thread retard
Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:22:52 +0200, Lutger wrote: retard wrote: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:00:11 -0400, Gary Whatmore wrote: What's the difference between: type polymorphism parametric polymorphism ad-hoc polymorphism generics c++ templates d style templates other templates (are there?)

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-22 Thread retard
Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:05:58 -0700, Walter Bright wrote: retard wrote: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:30:50 -0400, bearophile wrote: retard: - Safety features: it misses integral overflow tests and static contract checking (and many other things done by C lint tools, etc). The list was describing

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-22 Thread bearophile
Paulo Pinto: And lets not forget that optimizing Lisp compilers can beat Fortran code, Only if the Fortran code is very bad :-) Bye, bearophile

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-21 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Wednesday 20 October 2010 22:47:15 Paulo Pinto wrote: Eiffel does have templates, as in generic types. Or do you mean the compile time trick that C++ templates allow, thus opening the door for the meta programming done at compile time? Templates and generics are two separate - albeit

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-21 Thread Paulo Pinto
Sorry but I still don't get it. Do you mean that the types that erased and the same code is generated? Then let me say that .Net generics get generated on the fly and JITed for each different type. Eiffel and Modula-3 generics also have specific generated code for each type. The major

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-21 Thread Gary Whatmore
What's the difference between: type polymorphism parametric polymorphism ad-hoc polymorphism generics c++ templates d style templates other templates (are there?) Does Java and C# have type polymorphism or generics or templates? What's the real name and how to compare? Is D most expressive? I

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-21 Thread Gary Whatmore
I forgot Scala. They say Scala can @specialize without type erasure and it has variance polymorphism. What are these? Sounds as if Scala is getting closer to C++/D (instantiation and link-time optimization) and we need to fight back to make our language more expressive. - G.W. Gary Whatmore

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-21 Thread Simen kjaeraas
Paulo Pinto pj...@progtools.org wrote: Sorry but I still don't get it. Do you mean that the types that erased and the same code is generated? Then let me say that .Net generics get generated on the fly and JITed for each different type. Eiffel and Modula-3 generics also have specific

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-21 Thread bearophile
Gary Whatmore: I forgot Scala. They say Scala can @specialize without type erasure and it has variance polymorphism. What are these? Sounds as if Scala is getting closer to C++/D (instantiation and link-time optimization) and we need to fight back to make our language more expressive.

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-21 Thread retard
Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:00:11 -0400, Gary Whatmore wrote: What's the difference between: type polymorphism parametric polymorphism ad-hoc polymorphism generics c++ templates d style templates other templates (are there?) Does Java and C# have type polymorphism or generics or templates?

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-21 Thread retard
Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:26:20 +, retard wrote: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:00:11 -0400, Gary Whatmore wrote: What's the difference between: type polymorphism parametric polymorphism ad-hoc polymorphism generics c++ templates d style templates other templates (are there?) Does Java and C#

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-21 Thread bearophile
retard: - Complex integer types: Just L. - Safety features: it misses integral overflow tests and static contract checking (and many other things done by C lint tools, etc). - Evaluation strategies: by need was present, but I think it's now deprecated. - Polymorphism: template template

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-21 Thread retard
Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:30:50 -0400, bearophile wrote: retard: - Safety features: it misses integral overflow tests and static contract checking (and many other things done by C lint tools, etc). The list was describing the type system of the language. I can't agree these are all part of the

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-21 Thread retard
Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:30:50 -0400, bearophile wrote: retard: - Complex integer types: Just L. - Safety features: it misses integral overflow tests and static contract checking (and many other things done by C lint tools, etc). - Evaluation strategies: by need was present, but I think it's

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-21 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Thursday, October 21, 2010 12:45:32 Paulo Pinto wrote: Sorry but I still don't get it. Do you mean that the types that erased and the same code is generated? Then let me say that .Net generics get generated on the fly and JITed for each different type. Eiffel and Modula-3 generics

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-21 Thread retard
Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:51:03 -0700, Jonathan M Davis wrote: Now, as I said, C++ and D are the only languages I know of which use templates. That doesn't mean that other languages do not. Looking at the wikipedia page on template metaprogramming, it lists other languages such as Eiffel and ML, so

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-21 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Thursday, October 21, 2010 17:05:45 retard wrote: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:51:03 -0700, Jonathan M Davis wrote: Now, as I said, C++ and D are the only languages I know of which use templates. That doesn't mean that other languages do not. Looking at the wikipedia page on template

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-21 Thread Walter Bright
retard wrote: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:30:50 -0400, bearophile wrote: retard: - Safety features: it misses integral overflow tests and static contract checking (and many other things done by C lint tools, etc). The list was describing the type system of the language. I can't agree these are all

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-21 Thread Paulo Pinto
I can get the same benefict from functional languages+generics, or dynamic languages. Simen kjaeraas simen.kja...@gmail.com wrote in message news:op.vkxy6xx2vxi...@biotronic-pc.lan... Paulo Pinto pj...@progtools.org wrote: Sorry but I still don't get it. Do you mean that the types that

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-21 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Thursday 21 October 2010 22:42:47 Paulo Pinto wrote: I can get the same benefict from functional languages+generics, or dynamic languages. lisp macros aside, I've never seen anything that could ever come close to D templates in terms of their flexiblity and power for code generation. I'm

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-20 Thread Emil Madsen
Nahh, its just him, he apparently likes you the most (^ . ^) (jk) On 19 October 2010 21:53, Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote: On 10/19/10 14:04 CDT, Max Samukha wrote: On 10/19/2010 09:06 PM, Walter Bright wrote: bearophile wrote: The point I was trying to express

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-20 Thread Walter Bright
Max Samukha wrote: On 10/19/2010 09:06 PM, Walter Bright wrote: Time will tell how long it will take people to become idiomatically proficient in D. But also consider that Andrei's book Modern C++ Design completely changed the idiomatic way people wrote C++ programs. A 1990's state of the art

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-20 Thread Paulo Pinto
Sorry but I have to disagree. Actually after reading TDPL I got the impression that at the semantic level, D is not that much easier than C++. It does not make a difference for people that myself that are quite comfortable with C++, and all its idioms, but I think for the average programmer

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-20 Thread so
IMHO one should not try to find a PL that is easy, what a programmer needs is a language that makes things easier. If you dive into high performance/flexible/efficient/platform specific... coding nothing will be easy anyway. What makes a language easy/hard is mostly the crucial things it

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-20 Thread so
One more thing, it is hard to be comfortable with C++ if you are pushing the limits of templates. There are things you can do and things you simply cant. Andrei and Walter here you know one of those template experts, so are the people in Boost. I am sure not a single one of them would say

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-20 Thread Paulo Pinto
Personally, my only complaint is the way error messages are handled. And I was looking forward to have concepts in the language, which was not possible, but unfortunely there were some sematic issues related with the feature. But LLVM project is showing how it is possible to make C++ more user

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-20 Thread retard
Wed, 20 Oct 2010 14:57:10 +0300, so wrote: IMHO one should not try to find a PL that is easy, what a programmer needs is a language that makes things easier. If you dive into high performance/flexible/efficient/platform specific... coding nothing will be easy anyway. What makes a language

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-20 Thread so
Yes i meant C++ actually, but you can include here every other language because the point is not having templates, having it in a powerful environment. For a language it shouldn't be that hard to have a generic syntax (lets call it templates in here) much better than D, but if you

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-20 Thread so
Error generation is the least of it. Think about how different would you code, or how broad your choices would be with just templates with string support, nothing more. On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 15:34:05 +0300, Paulo Pinto pj...@progtools.org wrote: Personally, my only complaint is the way

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-20 Thread Walter Bright
so wrote: One more thing, it is hard to be comfortable with C++ if you are pushing the limits of templates. There are things you can do and things you simply cant. Andrei and Walter here you know one of those template experts, so are the people in Boost. I am sure not a single one of them

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-20 Thread Walter Bright
so wrote: Error generation is the least of it. Think about how different would you code, or how broad your choices would be with just templates with string support, nothing more. That's right. You cannot even pass a string literal to a C++ template.

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-20 Thread Paulo Pinto
Eiffel does have templates, as in generic types. Or do you mean the compile time trick that C++ templates allow, thus opening the door for the meta programming done at compile time? retard r...@tard.com.invalid wrote in message news:i9mnq2$2m3...@digitalmars.com... Wed, 20 Oct 2010 14:57:10

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread Peter Alexander
On 18/10/10 11:03 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote: Unfortunately, a lot of the programmers I know tend to react negatively to templates (probably primarily due to how nasty they can be in C++), so sadly, it can be hard to sell powerful templates as a _good_ feature to some folks. I think it has

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread Walter Bright
Peter Alexander wrote: On 18/10/10 11:03 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote: Unfortunately, a lot of the programmers I know tend to react negatively to templates (probably primarily due to how nasty they can be in C++), so sadly, it can be hard to sell powerful templates as a _good_ feature to some

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread Justin Johansson
On 19/10/2010 9:13 AM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: Maybe we should call them ducklings. :p No, rather eggs :-)

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread Justin Johansson
On 19/10/2010 7:04 PM, Peter Alexander wrote: On 18/10/10 11:03 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote: Unfortunately, a lot of the programmers I know tend to react negatively to templates (probably primarily due to how nasty they can be in C++), so sadly, it can be hard to sell powerful templates as a

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread Peter Alexander
== Quote from Walter Bright (newshou...@digitalmars.com)'s article Passing a type to a function is conceptually no more difficult than passing the number 7. Using templates is easy, even in C++. Writing them is the conceptually difficult part for most people.

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread bearophile
Justin Johansson There is also a big problem with reconciling templated types with OO typed hierarchies. Often a dichotomy appears when templates and classes seem to fight one another when you try to marriage the two idioms together (for better or for worse but generally worse). :-( Right.

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread dennis luehring
Am 19.10.2010 13:29, schrieb bearophile: Some of the problems of C++ templates: - The syntax is a big problem; if you want to use them to do complex things you need to write lot of ugly code. The lack of basic constructs like static if doesn't help at all. - The semantics is not clean, there

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread bearophile
Andrej Mitrovic: Knowing the syntax and knowing how to use a language are two very different things. If you're a newbie you can learn the C syntax in a couple of weeks, but you would be very wrong to assume that you know e.g. 70% of C, and that you could read any C project and understand it

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread Justin Johansson
On 19/10/2010 10:29 PM, bearophile wrote: Justin Johansson There is also a big problem with reconciling templated types with OO typed hierarchies. Often a dichotomy appears when templates and classes seem to fight one another when you try to marriage the two idioms together (for better or

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread Emil Madsen
So... When are you writing a book? Emil Madsen On 19 October 2010 13:49, bearophile bearophileh...@lycos.com wrote: Andrej Mitrovic: Knowing the syntax and knowing how to use a language are two very different things. If you're a newbie you can learn the C syntax in a couple of weeks, but

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread Justin Johansson
On 19/10/2010 11:16 PM, Emil Madsen wrote: So... When are you writing a book? Emil Madsen Hear, hear, I concert. When is bearophile going to write a book? Alongside you I will be sure to purchase a copy. Cheers, Justin :-)

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread Andrej Mitrovic
On 10/19/10, bearophile bearophileh...@lycos.com wrote: Andrej Mitrovic: Knowing the syntax and knowing how to use a language are two very different things. If you're a newbie you can learn the C syntax in a couple of weeks, but you would be very wrong to assume that you know e.g. 70% of C,

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread bearophile
Andrej Mitrovic: the Python documentation is just *fantastic* (although I've heard some people disagree). It covers just about everything you need to know (batteries included!), and there's always instructions on how to use the library and the interpreter itself. You're rarely left alone

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread Walter Bright
Peter Alexander wrote: == Quote from Walter Bright (newshou...@digitalmars.com)'s article Passing a type to a function is conceptually no more difficult than passing the number 7. Using templates is easy, even in C++. Writing them is the conceptually difficult part for most people. I

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread Andrej Mitrovic
They are fantastic in comparison to D's documentation. :-) On 10/19/10, bearophile bearophileh...@lycos.com wrote: Andrej Mitrovic: the Python documentation is just *fantastic* (although I've heard some people disagree). It covers just about everything you need to know (batteries included!),

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread Walter Bright
bearophile wrote: The point I was trying to express is that from what I have seen people are able to learn to program Python (this means quite more than just the syntax) in *much* less time it takes to learn C++/D. And this has precise causes. Time will tell how long it will take people to

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread Walter Bright
Justin Johansson wrote: On 19/10/2010 11:16 PM, Emil Madsen wrote: So... When are you writing a book? Emil Madsen Hear, hear, I concert. When is bearophile going to write a book? Alongside you I will be sure to purchase a copy. I think that would be a great idea! I'd buy the book, too.

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread Peter Alexander
On 19/10/10 7:00 PM, Walter Bright wrote: Peter Alexander wrote: == Quote from Walter Bright (newshou...@digitalmars.com)'s article Passing a type to a function is conceptually no more difficult than passing the number 7. Using templates is easy, even in C++. Writing them is the

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread Gour
On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 11:06:46 -0700 Walter == Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote: Walter We've only just begun figuring out the right way to write D Walter programs. No worries about idiomatic D here...just gives us 64bit compiler an GUI (QtD) lib so we can write...We'll optimize

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread Max Samukha
On 10/19/2010 09:06 PM, Walter Bright wrote: bearophile wrote: The point I was trying to express is that from what I have seen people are able to learn to program Python (this means quite more than just the syntax) in *much* less time it takes to learn C++/D. And this has precise causes. Time

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
On 10/19/10 14:04 CDT, Max Samukha wrote: On 10/19/2010 09:06 PM, Walter Bright wrote: bearophile wrote: The point I was trying to express is that from what I have seen people are able to learn to program Python (this means quite more than just the syntax) in *much* less time it takes to learn

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-19 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Tuesday 19 October 2010 12:53:41 Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 10/19/10 14:04 CDT, Max Samukha wrote: On 10/19/2010 09:06 PM, Walter Bright wrote: bearophile wrote: The point I was trying to express is that from what I have seen people are able to learn to program Python (this means

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread so
Forgive my ignorance but whenever i read a D review on that reddit thing, one always brings up this open source complier thing. My question is how many D like languages came up with an open source compiler? Why do people keep using that argument again and again? On Sun, 17 Oct 2010

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread dennis luehring
My question is how many D like languages came up with an open source compiler? Why do people keep using that argument again and again? and second how many of these other languages got an community driven development processes (aren't there always these five keyplayers around?)

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Monday 18 October 2010 01:34:51 dennis luehring wrote: My question is how many D like languages came up with an open source compiler? Why do people keep using that argument again and again? and second how many of these other languages got an community driven development processes

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Iain Buclaw
== Quote from Jonathan M Davis (jmdavisp...@gmx.com)'s article On Monday 18 October 2010 01:34:51 dennis luehring wrote: My question is how many D like languages came up with an open source compiler? Why do people keep using that argument again and again? and second how many of

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread dennis luehring
Am 18.10.2010 10:34, schrieb dennis luehring: My question is how many D like languages came up with an open source compiler? Why do people keep using that argument again and again? and second how many of these other languages got an community driven development processes (aren't there

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Jeff Nowakowski
On 10/18/2010 04:59 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote: Java was big long before it was open-sourced, and C# is big in spite of the fact that its main compiler isn't open source and the one that is (Mono) is so far behind the main one that many people totally discount it. Java and C# were pushed by

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Paulo Pinto
Hi, because there are only two ways languages get maintstream: - lots of PR and money invested into them building a community - there is a killer application/set of features that builts a community around the language Usually closed source languages get maintream due to the first bullet point

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Paulo Pinto
Hi, this is usually not a problem, because in many scenarios people are more than happy to mix languages. I for one, am language agnostic, because I always use the appropriate language for the project at hand, and don't have any problem mixing languages. In the Telecom industry which I know

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread bearophile
Andrei: Discusses a few languages including D: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dsdd6/the_next_big_language_2010_edition/ The Next Big Language will probably be JavaScript. Bye, bearophile

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread so
Thank you, First point is a good one and explains Go's popularity and it is hard not to agree that D fails on that one, no can do. But is the second one applies to languages? I mean you can sell an OS with a killer application or a computer but a programming language? The set of features a

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Monday 18 October 2010 03:40:23 Jeff Nowakowski wrote: On 10/18/2010 04:59 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote: Java was big long before it was open-sourced, and C# is big in spite of the fact that its main compiler isn't open source and the one that is (Mono) is so far behind the main one that

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Justin Johansson
On 18/10/2010 10:11 PM, bearophile wrote: Andrei: Discusses a few languages including D: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dsdd6/the_next_big_language_2010_edition/ The Next Big Language will probably be JavaScript. Bye, bearophile What encourages you to say so. JavaScript

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Paulo Pinto
the world C# - Microsoft is making it the official .Net systems language Scala - Seems to be the next big language in the JVM Haskell, F# - Multicore is making functional programming more mainstream. Plus Microsoft money. There are probably more examples, that I have forgotten. So the question

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Jeff Nowakowski
On 10/18/2010 07:52 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote: I definitely think that it would be a plus if D had a fully-compliant, open source compiler, but I don't see its lack as much of a reason not to use the language. The compiler is free and freely available. As long is it does it's job, that seems

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Jeff Nowakowski
On 10/18/2010 07:11 AM, bearophile wrote: The Next Big Language will probably be JavaScript. I see JavaScript as being stuck in the browser for the foreseeable future. It does have some usage outside the browser, but not much.

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Pelle
the way it is used in universities around the world C# - Microsoft is making it the official .Net systems language Scala - Seems to be the next big language in the JVM Haskell, F# - Multicore is making functional programming more mainstream. Plus Microsoft money. There are probably more examples

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Emil Madsen
I see a lot of applications going into the browser, in the future, but thats maybe just me :) On 18 October 2010 16:10, Jeff Nowakowski j...@dilacero.org wrote: On 10/18/2010 07:11 AM, bearophile wrote: The Next Big Language will probably be JavaScript. I see JavaScript as being stuck

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Don
Jeff Nowakowski wrote: On 10/18/2010 04:59 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote: Java was big long before it was open-sourced, and C# is big in spite of the fact that its main compiler isn't open source and the one that is (Mono) is so far behind the main one that many people totally discount it.

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Gianluigi
Il 18/10/10 16.10, Jeff Nowakowski ha scritto: I see JavaScript as being stuck in the browser for the foreseeable future. It does have some usage outside the browser, but not much. Take a look at http://nodejs.org/, there's someone willing to use JS to build server side software ... GR

The Next Big Language discussion is for brainless Kids

2010-10-18 Thread dennis luehring
for these ones is the Next Big Language always the one which solves the currenty problem, very easy, very fast and without thinking about it and they can only provide no-gos and gogos for every good or bad aspect of every language whats the main problem: if a big company is behind the language

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread cal
Jeff Nowakowski Wrote: On 10/18/2010 07:52 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote: I definitely think that it would be a plus if D had a fully-compliant, open source compiler, but I don't see its lack as much of a reason not to use the language. The compiler is free and freely available. As long is

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Jeff Nowakowski
On 10/18/2010 11:14 AM, Gianluigi wrote: Take a look at http://nodejs.org/, there's someone willing to use JS to build server side software ... Yeah, I saw the Google Tech-talk for that. As I said, usage outside the browser exists, but not much. The talk had some interesting ideas, but I

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Iain Buclaw
== Quote from Jeff Nowakowski (j...@dilacero.org)'s article On 10/18/2010 07:11 AM, bearophile wrote: The Next Big Language will probably be JavaScript. I see JavaScript as being stuck in the browser for the foreseeable future. It does have some usage outside the browser, but not much

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Jeff Nowakowski
On 10/18/2010 11:07 AM, Don wrote: It really seems to be a philosophical objection rather than a practical one. Or else based on a misunderstanding. You can't fork. That's the main consideration. Brushing this aside as a philosophical issue vs. a practical one is a misunderstanding on your

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Andrej Mitrovic
GPL or the Artistic License. But I'm not sure what the artistic license is about. Is that the equivalent of GPL or does it have different restrictions? I'll have to read it through.. To me, if I can read the source code then it's open source. It might not be GPLFREE, but quite frankly I don't

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Adam D. Ruppe
You can't fork. That's the main consideration. I don't think this is true: Tango seems to prove it. Sure, you can't fork the backend too, but the backend doesn't really matter much for it. The majority of D is the frontend and the libraries, all of which can and have been forked in the past.

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Denis Koroskin
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 19:07:38 +0400, Don nos...@nospam.com wrote: Jeff Nowakowski wrote: On 10/18/2010 04:59 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote: Java was big long before it was open-sourced, and C# is big in spite of the fact that its main compiler isn't open source and the one that is (Mono) is

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Fawzi Mohamed
On 18-ott-10, at 16:52, Pelle wrote: On 10/18/2010 03:18 PM, Paulo Pinto wrote: Yes, here is a summary of programming languages killer features. [...] So the question is, what could the D killer feature be? I see a future for D in the HPC field, I have tried hard at building a robust

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Fawzi Mohamed
On 18-ott-10, at 18:14, Denis Koroskin wrote: On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 19:07:38 +0400, Don nos...@nospam.com wrote: Jeff Nowakowski wrote: On 10/18/2010 04:59 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote: Java was big long before it was open-sourced, and C# is big in spite of the fact that its main compiler

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread bearophile
uses the memory, you have not fully understood the algorithm. Static memory asks to be more precise about memory usages, and this helps you understand the algorithm better (and will often improve the performance of your code too, even if you use Java). Scala - Seems to be the next big language

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Denis Koroskin
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 20:25:52 +0400, Fawzi Mohamed fa...@gmx.ch wrote: On 18-ott-10, at 18:14, Denis Koroskin wrote: On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 19:07:38 +0400, Don nos...@nospam.com wrote: Jeff Nowakowski wrote: On 10/18/2010 04:59 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote: Java was big long before it was

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Sean Kelly
Denis Koroskin Wrote: We've just tried programming with a friend in pair in D, and after spending about an hour trying to figure out the program misbehavior we understood it was a dmd codegen bug (I'll submit a report shortly). He was very angry and said After so many years being in

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread bearophile
Sean Kelly: Clearly, your friend never used VC++6. It was the buggiest piece of software I've ever used, and yet I never once heard someone say they were giving up on C++ because of it. Sounds to me like he was just looking for a reason to not give D a fair shake. In past Perl/Tcl/C++

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread JMRyan
Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote in news:i9f442$2b...@digitalmars.com: Discusses a few languages including D: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dsdd6/the_next_big_languag e_2010_edition/ Andrei Call me a curmudgeon, but I don't like Next Big Thing

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread eternium
Yao G. Wrote: On Sun, 17 Oct 2010 13:08:45 -0500, Andrej Mitrovic andrej.mitrov...@gmail.com wrote: I think it was a rather superficial review of all the languages. Did he even try any of them out, or did he just took a look at what wikipedia has to say? Here's my comment

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Walter Bright
Jonathan M Davis wrote: Sure, it would be great if dmd were completely open source, but I don't see why the fact that it isn't would be all that big a deal. Other languages - such as Java and C# - aren't open source (or at least weren't when they debuted). People used them in spite of the fact

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Gour D.
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 10:52:34 -0700 Walter == Walter Bright wrote: Hello Walter, Walter 1. People who won't use D for an irrational or unflattering Walter reason. They'll search about for some other reason that is Walter publicly acceptable. Any reason will do. You can tell them by Walter if you

Re: The Next Big Language

2010-10-18 Thread Walter Bright
Denis Koroskin wrote: Btw, here is the report: http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=5071 Thanks. I bumped up its priority.

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